NY Sept Tournament info

[Spirit Writer]

Can someone please tell me the weight divisions and what oz. gloves the Sept. 28th tournament will be implementing? Thank you.

[blacktaoist]

The use of 10 0z Kenpo Gloves will be employed to enable competitors to use palm strikes. Divisions will be -beginner LW-MW-HW Intermediate LW-MW-HW and Advanced Lw-MW-HW All bouts will be three two min rounds. Fighting time and the clock will stop as dictated by the Referee. The winner is declared by a majority vote by the referee and judges. Winner of the best 2 rounds wins the fight. Also Sifu Ben Hill now going to allow throwing techniques to be utilize. So if you are thinking about fighting make such you have a few good throwing techniques within your Ba Gua fighting strategy.:D

Peace.

[Spirit Writer]

What is the lcut off line between MW and HW?

[maoshan]

Spirit Writer


Thje cut off is 182lbs


Peace

[count]

How about light weight?

[Spirit Writer]

So then at 190 I could be fighting a 270 lbs guy? That's nice.:rolleyes:

[count]

TTT

[count]

Say Ben, of anyone who might know, I looked at the updates of the rules and pre-registration form at Blacktaoist's site, (http://blacktaoist.com) and a couple of others have been asking, What are the specific weight divisions? Some of us are borderline by most tournament standards. The pre-registration form has a blank for LW, MW, HW but no explaination. Also, could you be more specific about what defines beginner, intermediate and advanced?

[maoshan]

Peace All

Sorry for the delay, Family time ya know.

The break down goes like this:

LW: 130lbs-159lbs
MW: 160lbs-190lbs
HW: Unlimited


I realize that this is different from what I last posted concerning the Middle weight Division, but it seems there are going to be a greater number of participants in varying weight classes, so I had to revise it. This is the official Division of weight class.

As to the, what defines beginner, intermediate and advanced? Question,

Beg: 1-2yrs
Inter: 3-5yrs
Adv: 5yrs and up

I hope this helps. Need more Info? contact me.


Peace

Maoshan

[count]

That's what I needed. We have one woman who may be fighting too. Wanna post those divisions?

[Spirit Writer]

OK, what is some one studied external -- say Hung Quen -- for 4 years, but has studied internal for 2; what is he? Beginner, intermediate or advanaced? I know its silly, but how does one define.

[maoshan]

Peace All

Spirit Writer


I understand your question, and it's been apart of other discussions as well.

A beginner is a beginner. If their comming from an external system
or never trained a day in their life it's still the same because they both have to learn internal principles. The externalist may have an advantage in terms of the shape, but he's the same as the beginner in terms of getting the meat. and there are other factors as well. Such as is the practitiioner gifted. also the varying degree's of the so called external system the student is comming from, this directly effects the pace at which a student will embody the principles. I could go on but I hope this answers your question.

Peace

Maoshan

[Justa Man]

5 yrs and up is advanced? I would think 1-4 yrs is Beginner level, maybe 4-7 yrs is Intermediate, and above 7 yrs is Advanced.

Wouldn't you say Ba Gua Zhang skill takes just a bit longer to develop?

[blacktaoist]

Yo Ben, You need to delete some of your e-mails, your hot mail is to full. I can't send you $hit. I'll try to call you, but no one picks up your phone, I'm out of here this week, so try to hit me off with that $ for the $hit you ask me to pick up for you. Call me tonight.

[maoshan]

Justa Man,

On the norm, I agree with you, But you have to understand,
first, Ba-Gua has just started to become popular within the last 5yrs.
second, the majority of Ba-Gua Practitioners here in the west have not had even that much time of training exclusively with Ba-Gua. most do it for a hobby, Too few do it for real.
Hell, I've been doing Ba-Gua exclusivly for 22yrs and I'm still learning.
The standard is the same for most Tournaments in the west. I followed suit.
The standard is low as is obvious. my point of the tournament in the first place. Look at the standard and work to raise it.

True Ba-Gua is not for the faint of heart.


As to your original question of time,
Look at it from this point of view, Cheng Ting Hua only learned from Dong Hai Chuan at best 6yrs, most likely 5. He was an expert wrestler ( not master) yet he became one of the Big Four of Dong's top ten disiples.

It's not time, it's method and desire.


peace
maoshan

[Justa Man]

Good points Maoshan. I'm just thinking that there was never (at least to my knowledge) an all Ba Gua tournament before and there have been Ba Gua teachers in the U.S. for 10+ years, so there is a decent chance you are going to have one heckova packed Advanced group.
In any case, I still agree with your reasoning. Best of luck with the tournament.

[Mark M]

could you please repost the time,date and where it is being held, I have quite a few people who want to come, Thanks Mark

[wiz cool c]

where and when will it be? I would like to watch I just started training in ba gua and dont know much about it yet.

[Justa Man]

http://www.blacktaoist.com/Bagua%20registration.html

[Spirit Writer]

I just checked that link. The question, who's to say, as far as what is traditional?

No brawling? You, mean, if someone comes in and doesn't run the hand, but instead, looks more like Hsing-I an goes right in and puts soemone down they will be labled a brawler?

If someone goes to kick, yet they are countered by a kick that is labled kick boxing? This is very shady ground.

Also, who's traditional? Who here can say there Ba Gua is the original Ba Gua? And, further, who would want that? I don't want to be traditional, I want to be updated with the newest and best technology.

If you're a true Ba Gua player, this should be self evident: Things Change ... for the better ... unless they don't.

[maoshan]

Peace All

Mark M, wiz cool c

10:00am, September 28 2002. For the place and directions check
http://www.blacktaoist.com/Bagua%20registration.html and yeeshungga.com

Spirit Writer,

{No brawling? You, mean, if someone comes in and doesn't run the hand, but instead, looks more like Hsing-I an goes right in and puts soemone down they will be labled a brawler?}


You don't know that much Ba-Gua Do you? Don't you know that, for example: one of the variations of the Chiang Yung Qiao form is a combo of Ba-Gua and Xing-I? In fact a lot of the Cheng style
Variations have Xing-I in them as well

{If someone goes to kick, yet they are countered by a kick that is labled kick boxing? This is very shady ground.}

Ba-Gua is not limited in its use of kicks. It's all up to the practioner. But it's how the kick is applied that counts. YOU CANNOT VIOLATE THE PRINCIPLES. PERIOD!

{Also, who's traditional? Who here can say there Ba Gua is the original Ba Gua? And, further, who would want that? I don't want to be traditional; I want to be updated with the newest and best technology.}

Again, I say, You Don't Know Much Ba-Gua Do you?
First of all, there is no one alive who learned Directly Dong. Traditional should not be confused with original. Next point, Dong taught each Disciple individually. So original goes out the window.

Traditional on the other hand, was the way a Chinese martial artist fought with out the influence of western boxing. On the next point, you want to be updated with the newest and best Tec.
What do you mean? The Ba-Gua Standard has dropped. What newest? You’re tripping. The only method is to train. If you could get past the basics, you would find something new.
Or are you one of those individuals who think that there is a technology to bypass the work that must be done to achieve proficiency?

And who wants it? A hell of a lot of people. If I go by my e-mail and the masters that are going to attend. So speak for your self.

What's Brawling? What we see in most tournaments No one is doing their style. Their boxing hoping for a hit. They don't use their style's particular stragady or characteristics. Why do we learn particular styles? They are supposed to be different.
One of my goals is to show that difference. If you can't handle it, that's your lack of skill and you should train to improve. That's what this Tournament is for. I'm not a politician, I'm a fighter and Ba-Gua is what I do. The elevation of Ba-Gua as True Martial Art
And the raising of the standard here in the west is the goal.
And check this out. If you don't want to do it that way there are other options. And that will be dealt with at the masters meeting,
Please attend; we can deal with your problem.

Maoshan

[blacktaoist]

Yo maoshan, you off the hook man. Man careless what people think about your rules, if their so good with their Ba Gua Zhang their just show up and kill all this talk. Talk with the palms not the mouth. Anyway I'm training up here in tokyo japan for a while see you in a few weeks. I sent you some photos of the training and my new Home number in the U.S.A. I'll e-mail you when I go back to Beijing to train.

I have got alot of
$hit to talk you about Dong Hai Chuan tomb, I take mad photos, after all I'm the first Black guy ever to go vist his tomb and pay my respect. :D Theres not much more I can do in Ba Gua Zhang now, But train even more harder. I Also E-mail you the number to where I'm at in japan. give me a call later. To to you later.


P.S. Yo I met this Fake ass Ba Gua master in Beijing a few days a go when I was out there training, man I have alot of **** to tell you on the real.

[maoshan]

Blacktaoist,

What's up Brother?

I got what you sent me man. I tried to call you but I couldn't get through.

I can't believe that the low man on the totom pole of our crew beat a master in Beijing!
He bounced off his own kick? and was winded? It's beyond belief.
But I guess what I was told is true. And it's that sucker's teacher?
The one who tried to Diss me? No wonder he won't write you back.

Check this out All,
For those that remember the Interview last year, In a couple of weeks when the blacktaoist returns from China we're doing another one, shedding some light on some truths even I didn't believe until now. But the facts will be reveiled, and it's quite shocking.

BT
Let me know when you'll be back in beijing and I'll call you at Zhang lei's house. You have got to give me all this Including what you told me about Dong's Tomb.

Peace

Maoshan

[count]

Aw, what a couple of teases. Com'on fill us in.

[blacktaoist]

Yo, All I have to say is, a person is better off learning Ba Gua Zhang in the U.S.A. With a good teacher. Man there are mad Fakes Even in Beijing China.


Man Most of the Ba Gua Chinese Guys in Beijing all they do is Ba Gua forms, no real hardcore training. (fighting) Most Ba Gua teachers in Beijing up are teaching foreigners endless forms, which is dances with no martial art function.



I can't believe that the low man on the totom pole of our crew beat a master in Beijing!

BELIVE IT! Motley and Randall can tell you the story better then I can, They are back in the states now, Give them a call Ben. Man like I said most so Called Beijing World Renowned Ba Gua Zhang Masters, are in fact, Ba Gua Form masters. :D No matter where you go there are only a few Good Ba Gua Zhang teachers, that know their $hit when it comes to fighting. And you have to look hard to find them and hope to god they like you and show you how to utilize the true way (method) of Ba Gua Zhang.

Yo there where a few foreigners that I have met in Beijing China that live there for some years and Practice Ba Gua Zhang. You think their would have reach a good martial level in Ba Gua Zhang, when in fact you find that their martial art level is low standard. (they Can't Fight.) What a joke. One thing I can say they were good at speaking mandarin.:D

Yo, I 'll try to call you or e-mail you Today when I reach back to Beijing. Also make such you clean out your hot mail, because its hard to send you $hit when your e-mail is full. Yo don't e-mail me $hit alot because its hard for me to get to a PS in Beijing sometimes so it will take me sometime to e-mail you back.

Later.
Peace

[Spirit Writer]

Moashan, you have taken my words the wrong way. First, I have no business being at a "masters" conference, because I am merely a student.

But you also make my point. I have only been learning internal a short time, and as you pointed out, I must not know Ba Gua very well.

But what happens then if I start beating some fellow first or second year (beginner) fighters. Who's ba gua is the real ba gua then?

[maoshan]

blacktaoist

Yo,
I hope you get this before you leave Japan. I'm going to call you at Sifu's brother's house. I'm trying to keep the e-mail down but between the tournament and the junk mail it's hard. give me a time to call you. I want to talk to you.

peace

Spirit Writer

The meeting will be to discuss the rules, so it's not inappropriate for you to be there.
But to your point:
(But what happens then if I start beating some fellow first or second year (beginner) fighters. Who's ba gua is the real ba gua then?)

Great. that just means that the practitioner has more work to do.
It's about improvement. How do you guage yourself if you have no true test. Steel sharpens steel. Advancement in the Martial arts does not come from fighting people you can beat. It comes from fighting equals or superior practitioners. This forces you to work harder mentally and physically. the state of the arts in the west in general, is of a low standard, but a lot of people think their good. at the tournament we will all get a chance to compare ourselves and see where we need to improve in fighting as well as forms. we'll get a chance to meet peoplem who might give that one key or piece of the puzzle that brings it all together for you.
Understanding is diverse from person to person. this will be a unique oppertunity I hope many will take advantage of.

Peace
Maoshan

[maoshan]

blacktaoist

Yo,
I hope you get this before you leave Japan. I'm going to call you at Sifu's brother's house. I'm trying to keep the e-mail down but between the tournament and the junk mail it's hard. give me a time to call you. I want to talk to you.

peace

Spirit Writer

The meeting will be to discuss the rules, so it's not inappropriate for you to be there.
But to your point:
(But what happens then if I start beating some fellow first or second year (beginner) fighters. Who's ba gua is the real ba gua then?)

Great. that just means that the practitioner has more work to do.
It's about improvement. How do you guage yourself if you have no true test. Steel sharpens steel. Advancement in the Martial arts does not come from fighting people you can beat. It comes from fighting equals or superior practitioners. This forces you to work harder mentally and physically. the state of the arts in the west in general, is of a low standard, but a lot of people think their good. at the tournament we will all get a chance to compare ourselves and see where we need to improve in fighting as well as forms. we'll get a chance to meet peoplem who might give that one key or piece of the puzzle that brings it all together for you.
Understanding is diverse from person to person. this will be a unique oppertunity I hope many will take advantage of.

Peace
Maoshan

[maoshan]

sorry guys,
I hit the button twice by mistake

[blacktaoist]

maoshan Yo, I have to fly home, some thing happen with my family. I'll try to call you soon. I try to give send you my new home number by e-mail but like always your hot mail is full.

Talk to you later.

P.S. I got that $hit you wanted from Beijing. I tryed my Best to Find count $hit but I had no luck. But I did find a few All Ba Gua Zhang tournament VCD tapes in Bejing China. The VCDs is alright mostly Ba Gua hand and weapon forms. Cheng and Yin style practitioners. (No fighting) just forms.

[count]

Thanks for trying, hope all is well at home.