WingChuns Ansectors

[dre_doggX]

Which or the styles did you think influenced wingchun the most.
Southern Praying Mantis Style isnt always mention as an answer in the Books but looking at some demonstrations at www.carbonecho.com 's library I can see similarities.

I found out the SPM was part of wingchun from an article history of wingchun is at windycitywingchun.com

[yuanfen]

I visited the windy city site and did not see any refernce to
Southern Mantis at all...as having influence on wing chun.
Both are southern hands- so I am not surprised that they woyld have some things in common...but the stances and many principles are quite different.
Again, who knows which snake style may or may not have hada role. Tempting to make inferences.
The well known fukien crane writer Ming(?) claims that wc is just simply an offshoot of fukien crane. Bit of aggrandizement there.
Hung gar has the ygkym- in its own interpretation.

But the wung chun relationship between stance, hands, steps and motion is uniquely wing chun and hence different from other
seemingly similar things.

[Alpha Dog]

Yeah, I'll have the Wing Chun Combo with fries and a coke, please, to go. Ah what the hell, go on and super-size it!

[yuanfen]

are you waving taeechee hands while ordering? Did you warm
up your dan tien.?

[gnugear]

How about Hsing-I?

There seems to be a lot of similarities with that stlyle as well ....

[yuanfen]

with average of around two hands and two feet and a trunk-lots of things can look similar but are not necessarily the same.

[reneritchie]

There was a (in)famous lawsuit many years ago, Lotus vs. Microsoft. I forget which was the claiment, but the crux was they felt the other product was worked too similarly to their own. In the end, they didn't win. The judge ruled that since the product was for the same purpose, it was inevitable that it would have to function in a similar manner as well.

Since humans are relatively the same, and the goal of martial arts is relatively the same, it stands to reason martial arts developed by and for humans will be relatively the same.

So, you can look at arts like Bak Hok, Hung Ga, Xingyi, Bagua, Hakka, etc. and see WCK, if that is what you want to see, because in essance, they are people doing martial arts, same as WCK.

We do know there were Bak Hok and Hakka people aboard the Red Junk at the time WCK is first historically known to exist. So, the potential exists for there to have been some influence, but I think it will take a lot of work (if even possible anymore) to prove it.

Rgds,

RR

[yuanfen]

History specially martial history and within that wing chun history is a very inexact field. While the red boat era certainly is an important part of the wing chun story- depending on how one defines the core of the art, its foundations were likely to have been before the red boat era. The anti Ching rebellions started before the red boat era.

Some quick postscripts--- rumor has it that Cheng's death was in an encounter in the PRC where he was shot. Lee Sing died lasr year. I made an error about a Lam-Cheng encounter- actually it was a battle of surrogates between one of Paul Lam's students and Cheng representing Sing.

[dre_doggX]

gnugear wrote:
How about Hsing-I?

yes they are similiarites, but Hsing-i was made popular in the north. I doubt it but it isnt impossible. Come to think of it, I cant think of any principles that really different with one another. but i dont think this is because of direct orgin,Hsing-i probably isnt one of Wing CHuns direct ancestors. but Hsing-i is VERY old, and no one really knows who made it.

[reneritchie]

Ken Fish once put forward a version (I think from Henry Leung sifu) that Fung Siu-Ching brought Xingyiquan (Ying Yee Kuen) from the north (Hubei?) and developed Wing Chun Kuen from it.

There are some problems with this story, however -- Fung Siu-Ching may have come from Shunde, Guangdong, not the north; his core system as it is preserved today more closely resembles Hung Kuen than Xingyi; Fung Siu-Ching lived during the time of Leung Jan and it seems fairly certain Wing Chun Kuen had already developed and spread into several branches by then.

There's another old legend that said Ng Mui (Wumei) was a disciple of the Emei Mountain Temples where she learned Ngok Ga Kuen San Sik, the loose forms of the family boxing system of famed General Ngok Fei (Yue Fei), who is credited with the development of Eagle Claw and Xingyi.

Since this is legend, there's not much historical material to work with.

Just a convoluted way of saying others have seen connections to Xingyi (even if this falls into the previous posts point about similar needs, similar product).

Rgds,

RR