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NPMantis
07-05-2002, 02:04 AM
Was very impressed with the style, the instructor was also very good though I don't think he was very good at explaining himself - I doubt I'd learn much there or really develop as a Wc man. I am definately going to start WC, just have to find the right school! I'm going to try one or two others next week.

dezhen2001
07-05-2002, 02:08 AM
good luck in finding a good school :)
It's well worth spending some time looking for a good teacher,

hey, if ur still online and want to have a chat come to:
http://www.kungfuonline.com/chat.html
(don't close the browser window after entering your name)

david

Lindley57
07-05-2002, 09:16 AM
Was the person you interviewed with the head instructor? Can you elaborate on your experience noting the things that were good as well as more detail of his inability to explain himself well enough. This might be beneficial to all who are inquiring as well as those who are teaching.

Good Luck in your Kung Fu

Lust
07-05-2002, 10:15 AM
Why are you swithcing from your current style (northern mantis)?

Lust
07-05-2002, 10:15 AM
opps double post

Lust
07-05-2002, 10:15 AM
omg triple post!!!!!!!!!!!

NPMantis
07-05-2002, 10:32 AM
I guess I just don't feel NMantis is for me, it's not really something I can explain, just don't feel it's exactly what I want to be doing. It's a great style - I'm not changing because I believe WC is superior, just that WC is more what I want to do, I do believe WC is the best street fighting system I've seen, though I have only seen a few styles so I don't really think my opinion on the matter carries much weight!

There was only one instructor there, the head instructor. The good things to be honest was the WC which really stood out as being incredible fast and technical as well as very efficient - I thought NPM was efficient but WC is super efficient!

His inability to explain himself may have not been an inability, rather myself having a very good NPM Sifu and being a little spoilt! My NPM Sifu when he shows you a move will not just do it once or twice and walk off but will demo it, then you do it standing next to him, then he'll show you where you're going wrong. The first time he shows you he'll explain everything, stance, etc. so you reall know the moves inside out and can dissect them hence why all of his students have such a good understanding of the system.

The WC Sifu simply showed the students a move once or twice then went off without any real explanation, as far I could see their blocks were not that great (though my only source of comparison is various WC books I have seen and a friend who showed me some WC) and I just feel although he was showing them the moves he was really losing the essence of the real system which to me is so important. I'd rather have a sifu who I learn from much more slowly who explains everything and I get the real principles behind everything. I intend to look until I find a school which is like this.

The other thing I didn't like was the students calling the Sifu by his first name, there ws no real discipling in the class, one student started training with another by saying "come with it" - in my old school we were more respectful to others and the students in turn showed no signs of arrogance. Also I noted they started their warmups with some crescent kicks and other above head high kicks, which were also in some form their practiced - I wanted to get away from high kicks.

Overall, great style though, am definately really looking forward to studying it, I really like the principles behind it as well as the efficiency of the moves.

(This was ment to be a s hort post but it's more like an essay hope you don't mind!)

I'd really love anyone to comment on what I've said, especially if they disagree, I don't necessarily think I'm right, it's just what I thought on the topic.

Take care,

NPM

dbulmer
07-05-2002, 10:40 AM
I had a feeling you might end up with WC :)

Welcome to the fold !

dbulmer
07-05-2002, 10:44 AM
NpMantis,
Just noticed again you mentioned high kicks?
Most kicks are low to medium height - it could be they were just using them as warmup exercises. If you see high kicks being practiced be very wary - most WC guys don't use them.

stuff
07-05-2002, 10:58 AM
yes luke, come to the dark side

NPMantis
07-05-2002, 01:41 PM
dbulmer - yeah, I figured they were just warmups - I certainly don't want to lose my flexibility, but they were doing some form which involvd high kicks and I was like wtf? I don't want to learn some weird form of WC, I am definately coming over the the dark side, I am very lucky to have had an amazing NPM Sifu and have seen the different between a good and bad Sifu and realise whether a technique is useful or not and don't regret it. If I find the right Sifu I really hope I am able to train in WC for a long time, but who knows what the future holds - maybe 1 year down the line I'll change my mind, but I doubt it. If I find the right Sifu and Class I think I'll be training in WC for a long time. I love the simplicity of it and the way hands 'stick' when the students were practicing. The techniques are fairly similar to many techniques in NPM, but they just have different applications which I really like. I will let you know how it goes... I plan to visit 3 WC schools as I have only found 3 I like the look of, will be going Sun, Mon and Tue! I sincerely hope one of them lives up to my expectations!


stuff - Yes, I will come to the dark side... ****, after I'd had myself convinced WC was no good I've gone against my best principles and seen the dark side! It does look pretty incredible though, the speed and precision of the techniques is just incredible, exactly what I want.

dbulmer
07-05-2002, 02:11 PM
I have heard that there is a high kick in the third form - but I suspect some lineages may not have it and nor have I seen it myself. Perhaps some other WC guys can confirm/deny this.

I suspect you may end up getting sick of the word "Relax" by the time you've finished. :)

NPMantis
07-05-2002, 03:25 PM
It may be, I've seen the first form and I think second too, but never the third. They were walking all over the place though so I suspected it was the 3rd form as I know 2nd only takes steps forwards and 1st is stationary. Still, I was a little upset as I'm trying to get away from high kicks.

btw. One of the things I was surprised with was that even the relatively new students looked pretty good for beginners.

dbulmer
07-05-2002, 03:48 PM
Don't be upset by high kicks. Most of the time they are not used as they are deemed to be too slow and telegraphic. The 3rd form is taught for emergencies as I understand it when you are faced with a real crisis. I am nowhere near that level yet so I can't comment.

Trust us - you'll have more than enough on your plate to begin with :)

Mr Punch
07-05-2002, 05:37 PM
2nd form usually takes three steps to each side a couple of times, not to the front.

In the two versions of 3rd I've seen, they have only actually taken one step to each side, unless you count frequent repetitions of huen bo (circling step) which is in one place anyway. I've never seen high kicks in Biu Jee.

We practice high kicks as an exercise only. The walking around could have been san sik (solo drills): some schools have set sequences of these.


Did his higher level students tend to move like him? I don't mean as well as him, but with similar economy and flow? That would be a good sign. This can be deceptive too though, as they should be moving according to their own body type, so watch them in chi sau: do they seem relaxed in the shoulders for example?

As for the first-name thing: chill!
Some people just prefer it, though on occasion, I have found it to be a symptom of general slackness, I don't think this is a good indicator!

And the banter?! Not every time, but sometimes I think it's good to goad your opponent in class. If you say something short and surreal, it can test your opponent's focus! Or of course, you can growl or insult them and their mothers and their dress-sense, sexuality etc! No-one has ever attacked me silently, or whispering sweet nothings (well, there was one lass, but that's another story!!): get used to it! And yes, I'm serious!!

Sorry: rambling, mmm breakfast, bah work... er it's difficult to tell if it's a good school. Start a thread asking for ten recommendations! It's more economical than all those threads saying 'how about this sifu?' '...that sifu?' etc!

Frank Exchange
07-06-2002, 03:17 AM
Re: The first name thing. Some schools do, some dont. Ours doesnt, as Wong Shun Leung felt it was a little anachronistic.

He preferred to greet people with a handshake and a smile rather than the palmfist gesture and a bow.

I dont really see why first name terms are more disrespectful than other names. (I used to hate it at school when teachers called you by your surname, yet you were supposed to allow them the honorific 'sir' or at least 'Mr.' To me, being called by my surname was disrespectful)

The high kicks thing sounds unusual. I have never seen any wing chun that kicks higher than the waist, I suppose that it may be, as others have suggested, a stretching or warm up excercise. I am usually warm enough when I start my training. If not, I sometimes have a cup of tea, or put on a sweatshirt. :)

One of my pet peeves, though, is teachers who give a half hearted explanation of something, or ignore beginners and spend all their time with the more advanced students. I spent a month as a beginner at Austin Goh's school in Covent Gardenl, then went to my current one, and learned more in one evening lesson than I had in the entire month. Although his ability was excellent, the school had an appalling attitude to teaching beginners. IMO If you are not getting good explanations from day one, forget it.

Good luck finding a new place. Hope you can give us a try. Always good to meet new people :)

NPMantis
07-06-2002, 03:39 AM
dbulmer - Yeah, I'm looking forward to it, to be honest I don't mind learning the basics, at any rate they'll be so different to what I've been doing! I'll tell you how it goes when I find a decent school.

Mat - Yeah, I'd hate being called by surname too, I think the Sifu thing is important because it instills discipline in the students which some lack, the people in the class appeared to have bigger egos than their experience would have suggested, I just think it's important to learn humility, but I guess that's maybe more to do with the attitude of the Sifu than who calls who what? I didn't think his higher level students moved like him, he was good but I wasn't totally blown away, I felt my old Sifu was better.

Frank Exchange - Yeah, I've heard that about Austin Goh, I think if anything beginners need more attention that advanced students, as they know the basics so can figure out how to do a move correctly more than a beginner. I would have gone there to be honest if I heard he was better with beginners, I like the emphasis on sparring, though I have met him and don't really like his attitude anyway - I don't think I'd feel comfortable in his class.

I would love to come to your class but it's just too difficult for me to get to, I'd have to travel into london then out again, both on British rail which is so unreliable. Out of interest, how are beginners treated? I mean are they taught seperately or ignored or what? I will probably end up buying a car early next year, if I do I'll definately come down to a class for a look, I have heard it is very good.

NPMantis
07-06-2002, 05:12 AM
Hi Frank Exchange,

I have just rung up London transport and theres a direct bus to St Albans and I was wondering, do you know the area well? If so, is St Peters St (I think it's the High Road?) far from the school, if not I might come to the school for a lesson and see how the journey is, it's an hour on the bus, may be a bit far but if I really like the school what's an hour? Thanks a lot for your help mate!

NPM

kieofwoo
07-07-2002, 02:20 PM
Hiya NPMantis!

You replied to a thread I started a while back about wingchun schools in london but then you were into your mantis ;)

Anyway could you let us know which schools you are talking about when you post your comments?

I have yet to start looking properly at kwoons, as I couldn't start a regular class at the moment (life is too chaotic at the mo) - but I would love to hear oyur opinions on any you check out :D

Good luck!

NPMantis
07-07-2002, 04:28 PM
Hey mate,

To be honest I'd rather not post the schools name openly on the forum, if you want to know more (or anyone else!) though please email me on admin@freelondon.org and I'll tell you whatever you want to know!

I'm going to try another school Tuesday, will let you all know how it goes, I still can't believe how quickley I was converted to WC - it is just such an incredible street fighting style, one of my friends who does it was going on for ages how great it is, but then again so does everyone else about their martial art (esp. Karate men! - no offence intended).

I guess I was just starting to realise exactly what I am looking for in a martial art, I have enjoyed NPM and it's made me fairly fit and flexible, so no regrets and had an amazing Sifu, it's a shame to leave but it just didn't feel right anymore (not meaning to sound so melodramatic!).

Anyway, I'd be interested to hear from anyone else who does WC in London, feel free to email me!

Take care,

NPM

Frank Exchange
07-08-2002, 04:19 AM
Hi NPM,

Sorry for the delay in replying, didnt check the forum over the weekend.

Beginners in our class are vitally important. On Mondays, Clive (instructor) spends pretty much all his time with them, and spreads himself around a bit more on the Saturday lesson, as more of the old timers come on Saturday.

One reason I enjoyed the class so much as a beginner was the fact that everyone helps everyone else. You are encouraged to actively teach the person you are partnered with, and you have to understand the theory and concepts to do this. I can go from teaching a beginner the concepts behind SLT, to first time Dan Chi with another, and then get thrown around in hardcore chisao with a 17 year veteran, all in the space of one class.

In order to explain something to someone, you have to completely understand it yourself, so explaining and teaching to others helps to crystallize the approaches and concepts in your own mind.

Where are you based? The Thameslink line from Kings Cross to StAlbans is usually reliable, trains every 10-15 minutes. Then it is .7 of a mile from the station to the class. (Measured by an odometer!), 10-15 minutes walk maybe?

StPeters Street is about 10 minutes from the Station, so you are better off getting a bus to the station if possible. Otherwise, it would be about 20-25 minute walk from StPeters St to the class.

Hope to see you some time, if not next year when you get a car!

NPMantis
07-08-2002, 01:32 PM
Hey mate,

Cheers for your post, it is just too far, I will probably end up coming to a class when I get a car soimetime next year,

Cheers for your help,

take care,

NPM