Mook Jong-ing

[Rolling Elbow]

Ok guys, this was getting no response in the wing chun section.

What are the proper levels for the arms on a mook jong? The two arms that cross the center is understood BUT where allot of designs duiffer, is in the height of the two arms! The top arm faces slightly downward while the bottom faces slightly up. Is this correct? Because i see tons of dummies that have a slight height diff between the two arms. Let me know will ya? Included, are the advantages or disadvantages of both designs and whether o rnot it actually matters.

[old jong]

I see no problem in this.The distance between the arms (If the v is too open on the horizontal plane) is a lot more critical. I have seen dummies so badly made it was impossible to do the form correctly on them!
So the idea is :Not to much differences in height(the bottom of the hight one's tip and the top of the lower one's tip are on the same plan or almost.) and a not too wide open horizontal gap. Mine has 8 inches between the arms and I have seen some a little narrowers.

[Rolling Elbow]

Merci vieux Jong! Did you make your own as well or did you purchase one?

[old jong]

I bought it. But I'm thinking about making one someday. The PVC solution look's like a very good alternative to me.
BTW, are you in Wing Chun now?...

[Rolling Elbow]

NEVER!!!!

We use the wooden dummy for Phillipino and taijutsu hand-foot drills. Beleive it or not, the dummy can be used for other practice beyond wing chun. Having said that, my instructor does know wing chun and CLF but has adapted his patterns instead to suit a more mobile way of approaching the dummy..Its a combo of wing chun hands, taijutsu mobility and limb destruction, and CLF hooks....that is the best i can do to conjure up an image for ya! Hell its all the same, its fighting!!!

If i do move to montreal though, you'll be the first to know. I'll let you know how the PVC prototype goes.

[old jong]

Beyond Wing Chun?...What do you mean?...You attack it with a shotgun?... ;)
More mobile way?... Do you strike it and take a run around the block and come back to strike it again?... ;)
Just teasing you!. :D Give me some news about it and how you use it. Many styles of Kung Fu have some kind of dummies and use them in varied ways so I "believe" it!;)
Even BJJhas it's own! (http://www.bubbadummy.com/)But!...Could we call it a "resisting opponent"?...;) :D

[logic]

Rolling Elbow
I just got a new one a few months ago.
It looks like this diagram.
www.woodendummy.com

[Rolling Elbow]

lol Old Jong..

By more "mobile" i meant to say that there is more whole body displacement around the dummy and allot of concentration on jamming and attacking the legs during this movement. There is allot of striking the "limbs", entering and moving around the dummy. I wish i could video tape him in action, jesus, he's got blistering speed. Then again, he used to train with one of Moy Yatt's personal students on the night shift practically every night they worked together so surely we can thank Wing Chun for that right?!

On a side note.., i love wing chun soo much that i get in sh$t for trying to hold and attack the center line all the time! I keep hearing, "get off the center line!"..or " stop that **** Wing Chun footwork!" :-) I do love Taijutsu that much more though... somewhere there is a happy medium for this cat.

I am getting doubts about the mook jong now..i almost feel as if i should just get a hunk of wood and go from scratch. In 6 months i should have a dummy right?. Old Jong, what type did you get and where did you get it? The woodendummy.com site is good but their prices are awefully high.

[IronFist]

You should buy my book and build a perfectly authentic dummy for under $250-275 (including the stand).

Guide to Wooden Dummy Construction (http://woodendummy.4dw.com)

From what people tell me, my book is better than all the other "plans" they've bought or seen, and someone also told me it was better than that one book Paladin Press released about building a dummy.

Instead of spending 6 months, it will take about a week or less of dedicated work to do it my way. Pics at the site.

IronFist

[Rolling Elbow]

Iron..

I guess if i have to pay 12$ American to learn how to cut square holes in PVC then i will! Do your plans include instructions on alternative ways to make the arms though? By this i mean, can you use table legs or square peices and chisel or sand them down to make the arms by hand? More work, but a real peice of pride when you are done..

Like i said, i am tracking down the PVC and may have a line on some at two local plumbing suppliers, i'll see on Monday.

Alright, let me know how i can pay, do i send a money order? Can you let me know what i need to pay in terms of shipping so that i can include it for ya one time. Lets get this party started! Also, i'd hope the plans for the stand include a dummy that can take a major pounding!!!!!!

[IronFist]

Rolling Elbow,

Do your plans include instructions on alternative ways to make the arms though?

Ok, here's the deal. My book gives two options for limbs. The first is to buy them from Asheville Woodcrafters, because 3 arms + a leg + shipping will run you about $175 depending on which wood you choose. I recommend this as the best way because unless you totally know what you are doing (read: are a woodworker), it will be very difficult to make arms yourself. Besides, Asheville's arms are perfect. The top two have offset shanks and are beveled on the inside so they can be pulled together without touching. However, for the reader who insists on making the limbs him/herself, I have included exact measurements and everything.

By this i mean, can you use table legs or square peices and chisel or sand them down to make the arms by hand? More work, but a real peice of pride when you are done..

If you wanted to do that, sure, I guess you could :)

Like i said, i am tracking down the PVC and may have a line on some at two local plumbing suppliers, i'll see on Monday.

Good. It took me a while to find mine, too, but I'm glad I did.

Alright, let me know how i can pay, do i send a money order? Can you let me know what i need to pay in terms of shipping so that i can include it for ya one time.

Send me an email and I'll give you my address. Shipping is $4.00 for priority shipping (they just raised the prices again), so the total will be $16.00.

Also, i'd hope the plans for the stand include a dummy that can take a major pounding!!!!!!

My stand rules. The only thing is that a PVC body weighs less than a solid wood body, and therefore the entire thing weighs a bit less. However, if you find the stand moves too much when you blast it (I don't find this to be a problem, but mine is against a wall so maybe that helps), you can always lay sandbags across the parts of the stand that touch the ground. This would be an easy way to add 50-400lbs to the whole thing.

I don't think you should have any trouble understanding my instructions. I've been told how easy to read and well laid out my book is.

My ego grows... :)

Let me know if you have any other questions,

IronFist

[Rolling Elbow]

Iron,

Thanks for the pm, i'll send you a money order tomorrow!

Now for my next question, i've got an ingenious idea for the arms. I can get my hands on 2 inch diameter hardwood dowels. Seeing as they taper down to 1 1/2 (depending) anyway, i could easily use them and cut the back ends square so that they don't slide...we'll see after shipping and handling what that costs. Does anyone think Birch as a hardwood is comparable to maple and oak?

[Rolling Elbow]

O yeah..almost forgot..

When you go to the Ashville woodcrafters site and you look at limbs, do they refer to a "set" as 2 upper arms and a center arm? Or is it just two upper arms and then get the center arm yourself?

Thanks...Iron, you'll know this seeing as you guys plug each other! :-)

[IronFist]

Rolling Elbow:

When you go to the Ashville woodcrafters site and you look at limbs, do they refer to a "set" as 2 upper arms and a center arm? Or is it just two upper arms and then get the center arm yourself?

A set is all three. I guess if you're ordering one upper arm you specify if you want the left or the right one. When I ordered, I ordered a set and I got all 3: two uppers and a center.

Does anyone think Birch as a hardwood is comparable to maple and oak?

I dunno. I used Asheville's wood comparison chart and Persimmon seemed to be the best (strongest, most resistant to sudden force, etc.) so I choose that for my arms.

IronFist

[Rolling Elbow]

Man,

Do you know how hard it is to get a peice of f#$king PVC with 8' inch diameteer? I am phoning around and now i have to talk to the manager of the place i thought i had a line on the other day. what b.s, i can't beleive none of these places have a scrap peice of PVC around that is collecting dust. they are driving me absolutely bannanas. "What are you going to use it for" None of your **** business! Geez, what a frustrating time i am having.

Iron, i sent you message about cheque in the mail, should get there by week's end.

[IronFist]

Dude, it's hard to find a piece of PVC pipe that big. Keep checking. It took me a week or two to find one. I went through the phonebook and wrote down every plumber/sewer/etc. company in there. I called them all and left messages where I didn't get to talk to a live person.

When they ask you what it's for, just say it's for an art project :)

IronFist

[Rolling Elbow]

o.k,

So i've located 13ft of ABS/PVC type tubing..its perfect. I ask the guy if they can cut it for me and here is the reply:

"well... we can give you a hacksaw and you can have a go at it yourself.." lol..what a wingnut. I guess that is my only option..how hard does it take to cut through those bad boiz? 8' diameter, its gonna be a ***** ain't it? I suppose i can rough cut it and then sand down the edges to make the cut level.

[IronFist]

I used a handheld jigsaw and it took a few minutes. I estimate with a hacksaw it would take about 5- 10 minutes? I have no idea. Don't try to go too fast.

IronFist

[Rolling Elbow]

No worries,

Got it purchased and cut. 12 foot peice cut in two means I bought my body for a bit under 40$ Canadian. Not too shabby. Just waiting on Iron fist's manual and the games will begin! Iron, how much impact will the stand take when pushed against a wall? Do the corners need to be pinned with sand bags ? Thanks

[IronFist]

Hey, I got your payment today. I'll send it out tomorrow.

Iron, how much impact will the stand take when pushed against a wall? Do the corners need to be pinned with sand bags ? Thanks

Do you mean will the stand damage the wall if you hit it hard? I don't know. I guess if you really blast it straight back it would have the possibility of damaging the wall. Or did you mean will the stand break if it's against a wall? No, it won't break... unless you build it wrong or use rotten wood or something. I would only pin the corners with sandbags if you don't have it against the wall and you find it is moving across the floor when you hit it. But, if you put it on carpet, that will help add traction and keep it in place.

I hope one of those answered your question.

IronFist

[Rolling Elbow]

I was just worried about it falling over.. I think I am leaning towards a stand that is attached to plywood. I saw a cool vid in which the thing was really taking a beating and seemed really alive..i think i like the idea of a real lively dummy. Have you ever tried plywood? The theory is that your weight keeps the far end down.

[Rolling Elbow]

http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/kskf/videos.htm Have a look at the pounding this mook takes and let me know if you think thre is too much spring here. Or do all Mook respond when hit like this.

thanks.

[IronFist]

I'll watch the videos in a few minutes, but there's no way my stand will ever tip over. Even if you struck it upward forcefully, you would not have the leverage with which to knock it over because the base is 4x5'.

IronFist

[IronFist]

I just watched the dummy video and his dummy swings like crazy. That is not common, and probably not good. Mine is actually pretty solid because I used a thicker support slat than most people do, but this is personal preference. Normally they're 1"x2" which allows for a little swing when you hit it. The dummy shouldn't BOUNCE, however, like the one in that video. It shouldn't even be close to like in that video. That guy's dummy is rediculous.

IronFist