What Lies Beneath

[Kevin Barkman]

I was just reading a recent post by Billy Pilgram which said a certain "iron forearm" exercise was not meant to teach only conditioning, but TTFC concepts as well (which one by the way,if you don't mind my asking)?

Anyway, here is my question - we emphasize on these forums, perhaps too much, the importance of developing a feel for TTFC in Hakka derived Arts. Well, that IS important, but what should we work on next?

Is the ultimate point and goal of Dragon, Bak Mei, Chu Gar, etc., of soft, internal power, simply leading to the same conclusion that of Tai Chi?

I have been reading Wolfe Lowenthal's book "There are no Secrets" - Professor Cheng Man Ch'ing and his Tai Chi Chuan". First of all, allow me to say this is one of the very finest books written on kung fu.

Secondly, Since the Hakka Arts are so similiar to the "Northern" internal systems (in principal), what is the next logical level to these Arts? There are too many similarities to overlook.

Most of us "external" stylists will have long since departed the arena of kung fu twenty, thirty years from now. If we "stay the course", will our kung fu even slightly resemble what we practice today? Why waste our time now (assuming most of those who post on this forum are 30 ish)?

What is after TTFC?!?

Cheers - smashing bridge kevin

[billy_pilgrim]

I can only post what I know, which isn't much, so I'll apologize now for the disappointment.

Bak Fu Pai is not Hakka, it's Daoist internal, and although it does have Sil Lum roots, the O'mei Daoist influence has been complete and total...from my perspective.

That said, we do have some of these conditioning exercises which I've seen in other southern systems, most notably mantis but I understand that there are others as well.

The Luke Jook Tong, as we do it, is done to train proper movement, the weight on the arms is there to simulate pressure from an opponent but it's not a conditioning drill by any means.

"TTFC" in BFP is really just a name for how you move, and nothing more. I try using all three dimensions, and thus don't break it up into float/sink and swallow/spit.

I realize other systems have a different take, I'm just sharing mine...my original post was in reaction to what I had read. I've seen Lacy's version of the "roller bar" exercise and it is EXACTLY as is outlined on Turiyan's web page, though, none of us should be surprised given where his info comes from...I just wanted to clarify that this roller bar drill has nothing to do with condition...as far as BFP is concerned.

Take Care.

[mantis108]

When is techinques becomes the meaning of life? What has breathing and motions got to do with anything? Is the mind, body, and spirit has connections? Why do you do what you do? Why not the other way?

The answer to me lies within you. I would like to share this with you "people see things as they are and say why, I dream things that never were and say why not?" Life is not sport, neither is Kung Fu. Treat Kung Fu as life and life as Kung Fu. There you will find your answer. If you are not prepare to do so, then it would be wise to withdraw the question because you are not ready for the answer. It is the red pill or the blue pill, my friend. Just thought I share this with you. :)

Mantis108

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