How Long For Wing Chun

[Chum Kil]

I read that when Wing Chun was first introduced it took the practioner 5-7 years to learn the system, maybe some individuals 3-5 years. Nowadays I here some practioners even after 14 years they still do not know there lineages entire system. Is Wing Chun going the way of other arts? Holding back of information, spending to much time on some elements, spending time on non-relevent material. Now don't get me wrong, mastering Wing Chun's subilties could take a life time, but to put out decent practioners, I believe should be in the 4-7 year range. Does your lineage put out all the information for you to learn the system in this time frame?

[red5angel]

I believe alot of that is marketing, dangling the proverbial carrot. Some WC schools I have been to claim to be able to teach you the system effectively in 3 years.

[kungfu cowboy]

Three years sounds about right to learn everything. There really isn't that much there. (I know, in a sense, there is an infinity of material, but really!)

[Chum Kil]

Marketing was something I left out, thanks. In three years you can be very effective, if you practice hard. I believe in 6 months to a year you should be not too bad, if you practice hard. This is with 3 times a week with about 1-2 hours of training at a time. This time should be spent wisely, I hope. I've been to other lineages schools and they spend about 3-4 hours training at a time, but to me its totally different from the way I learned. I tried this for about 5 months, I would not feel comfortable using what I was shown in a real fight, I would have reverted back to what I practiced before.

[kungfu cowboy]

Marketing! Sounds more like lying for a profit!

[red5angel]

Exactly KF cowboy. Chum Kil I would say you would have to train for longer then that if you were only doing 6 hours a week! I would say you could be ok at a year if you do 2-3 2 hours classes and an hour a day, everyday. The other thing is to have good control over your advancement. If you arent ready to move on then dont, it may hurt you more then help.

[NeedsPractice]

My question is this-

When they say for arguements sake that in the old days or theoretically you could / should be able to learn wing chun in lets say 3- 5 years versus longer for other arts, is that 3-5 years how people train today( at about 2-3 times a week at about 2-3 hours) or is that training for more hours per day, and every day ( for example 4-5 hours a day for 6-7 days a week)?

You see how those extra hours and days would push you along alot faster, similiar to how regular practice at home tends to speed up your progress.

I am not looking to start an argument just asking your opinions.

[kungfu cowboy]

Screw that 'they trained all day long for 1000 years' crap. If it takes you that much time to get good, find another art.

I am not arguing. This is just my opinion.:)

[black and blue]

Well, if every student of Wing Chun (in the days of Yip Man) was very wealthy... fair enough. I'm sure most had to work for a living, had family committments etc, etc. I doubt very much if they all trained 8 hours a day (or whatever the claim is).

I'm embarrassed to admit it, but in my Uni days I tried a little Ninjutsu :) Hatsumi (the current Grandmaster... if you believe his scrolls) once said he looked for a system like Ninjutsu as a result of foreigners studying MA.

He studied judo, jujitsu and aikido (and some weapons arts), and said he felt most Arts relied too heavily on physical prowess and strength etc. He claimed what took the Japanese years to learn, was picked up in months by American soldiers based in Japan. Hence his seeking out an art not dependent on size and strength.

What am I saying? Simply this. Those crazy Chinese guys studied real hard all day long - but I'm gonna equal their abilities studying less - coz I'm a Westerner and we kick bottoms! :p

But seriously, three forms, weapons and dummy + the intricate practise of Chi Sau. Sure it takes a life time to master (this is surely true of all martial arts), but it shouldn't take that long to learn the system itself.

I've heard of WT guys practising for 10-15 years before learning the pole. This is the saddest thing I've ever heard :( All that time and money spent training the art you love, and someone somewhere still holds back information.

A question for Rene and Joy. You two chaps seem to know your stuff (and Joy, you teach), and many others here have classes at which they instruct.

Have you learnt all three forms, weapons and dummy? How long did it take you before you were shown all of the sets?

Duncan

[kungfu cowboy]

black and blue--Hey! That conversation is taken out of context!
:mad: :p


Did Hatsumi admit that he didn't really study ninjitsu or something? Do you know anything about a Tetsuya Higuchi?

[black and blue]

I recognise the name but I'm not sure who he is :(

The debate/arguement was along the lines of dubious historical proof of various Ryu. Some historians said the scrolls Hatsumi carries that show his lineage, can't be as old as he says, as in the period they are supposed to come from, there were no formal 'schools' of any martial art in Japan.

There was also an argument that some areas of the combat was simply jujitsu as found in standard schools.

I don't know, some of what I was taught was interesting, and Ninjutsu certainly has a great many techniques for all types of situations... but...

well, compared to WC I felt it was inefficient and too reliant on intricate locks and movements that in the heat of battle wouldn't work for me.

The Ninja stars where cool though, and realultimatepower is still my favourite website. I think I'm going to flip out right now!

Duncan

Ps. Hey - Your 'friendship' with Ironfist is fine with me. No really, it's cool. Hey, I mean it - I think the whole thing is very sweet. :D

[kungfu cowboy]

Hey dude, I can take a joke allright...but I dunno about IronFist!:D


Um, due to possible public embarrassment, lol, I PM'ed you some info about Higuchi..;)

[kungfu cowboy]

Oh, nevermind that! He supposedly taught Togakure Ryu ninjitsu, and I went there for a bit a looong time ago. (There, my sectret shame is out!) Just wondering if you had any info on him. I really liked going there.