I can do without the stress...

[MonkeySlap Too]

I was watching a thread between two teachers I respect who were just going after each other, ragging on things that seemed really unimportant in the scheme of things. Martial arts is a big part of my life, but ultimately it is only a hobby. Taking care of my family and doing well as a bread-earner are much more important things.

Why, may I ask does everybody make such a big deal over thier martial art political battles? I'm not talking about confronting frauds like OYD, which is a civic duty, but interneceine fighting between people who could just as well ignore each other.

I really think it is this kind of BS that puts people off the martial arts.

[red5angel]

Hehe, you should check out the Wing Chun forum then! I am fighting a battle with eth wingchun community because I have a strong passion for the art. It is going the way of the Mcdojo however, or worse because alot of people are out there trying to teach it without really being able to. A lack of understanding has degraded the art and it is just going to get worse unless people wake up. For me its a worthy battle, my wife always comes first but then its martial arts all the way.

[Black Jack]

You can see that going on a bit now in the modern arnis community after Remy Presas passing away. I was just witness to an exchange of that kinda nature with a certain group and they all seem to come from the same attitude.

They all think they have the "true" material and the other guy has the "watered down" material.

I think politcal bs sucks. It just takes up time that would better be spent training with each other.

[guohuen]

I agree. I joined the USAWKF to learn and share and it turned out to be only about whom was going to pick a wushu team to go to the 2008 olympics.

[Shaolindynasty]

Politics suck! Look at the southern forum, the only thing on there is who said what, who claims what, or if the green grass monk was real. Personally I just read it and forget it. There is really no point I don't care what everybody else is doing anyway. I just stick to myself and my own school.

Politics are turning me off on CMA though, I am starting to enjoy the company of JMAists more because they won't tell me how "your school sucks because they heard so from master x" because they don't have an investment in CMA.

Time to go check out e-budo

One last question, why are so many CMA people so stuck up?

[SevenStar]

I think all styles go through it - back in the 80's it was kempo and in the 90's (and also long before) was TKD. everybody is always battling for lineage supremacy.

My take on it? it's pointless. when it's all said and done, you will continue to train with sifu x and I will train with sifu y - it doesn't matter to me that sifu x did not train under sifu w and learn all of the super secret techniques.

screw all the politics, just shut up and train.

[shaolinboxer]

Aikido politics are absurd.

It's one of the reasons I chose a small, non-profit dojo.

WuShu politics are even more absurd. It's one of the reasons I quit.

[SevenStar]

"One last question, why are so many CMA people so stuck up?"

My guess would be:

1. lineage, if they are supposedly from a good one
2. living through their elder's experiences

this applies to many styles though. we've all heard and probably know people who think their style is invincible because their teacher's teacher was 112020 - 0 in challenge matches. All that means to me though is that their teacher's teacher was good - it doesn't say jack about them though.

I had a rant that was along these lines a few weeks ago, and WD posted something good there. it was something to the effect of:

One thing I've noticed about fighters is they don't care what style you train in. If you can knock somebody on their butt, they respect you and the style you used to do it.
---------
much of the arrogance is likely from those who really have not experienced other styles. once you've had the wind knocked out of you by a TKD guy or been pounded unconscious by a boxer, you lose the arrogance real quick.

[Cody]

In some part (not all), MA disputes can involve a power/ego trip amongst those who might claim to be humble. It's best to stay out of it, but that is difficult sometimes.

I think if someone pulls a fast one and seeks to teach rubbish, then it should be exposed cause of the harm that can be done to people who seek something good, but maybe in the wrong way (like a shortcut, for example).

Then, there are the multiple versions of history. Sometimes, it would seem to me, that there was a lie or two way back then, and now, who knows? The history of ancient Rome can seem more clear. One story or another is further perpetuated by the tradition of supporting that which came before.
Even if the truth were to come forward, it could take its place alongside of all the other stories. What constitutes proof? What are the consequences for the continuation of the lineage?
Gets to a point where nothing makes sense, and that's unfortunate when it happens. People get afraid of looking bad, or having their sifu look bad, or they take advantage of the situation to be cruel. It can get out of hand, with any attempt at Understanding motivation and heart going down the tubes.

Authenticity. Who knows the "authentic" ways? That is sometimes quite apparent. Who teaches them? Who the heck knows the difference? Just about any teacher I've known has said up front that the teaching is not as it was.
These "ways" are made up of thoughts and practices which, imo, can be gleaned, plucked from other sources, just as they began at the beginning. It takes a sort of genius to do this, I think. Yet it is possible. I am wondering that even if certain of the authentic ways lose connecting tangible records, whether we can derive/create ways of living and defense that are just as good, because they are There. I don't think I'm explaining this as completely as I would like. I'll give it another try. Bottom line. I appreciate the great teachers, and lesser teachers of good heart. I love the arts. Respect, yes; worship, no. Yet, with the passing of all of it, it could be created again, not as a mere imitation, but as an expression of what is part of what we are and can be. If that remains hardy, then the result will be splendid in its own way. A matter of perspective.

I think that one's relationships and one's training should not be held on different planes. They both should represent what you are in heart, mind and spirit. Or, to put it another way, if a person acts cruel, deceitfully, and in an unstable manner in martial arts work and disputes, you can be darned well sure that carries over into other aspects of life. Just as kindness and compassion and clarity do. balance. Politics can be like a large family argument, with leadership as the prize. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Cody

[TaoBoy]

Why can't we all just be friends?

Sounds like some people out there need a hug. ;)

[Cody]

Sat peacefully, and waited for my answer to your question, one I've asked myself many times. Feelings and words need time to meet.
The words are Domination, and Ownership. That is why.

When there is something, someone, or some "way" to be "owned," especially during impending shifts of power, some true friendships can prevail, But, what you envision is not likely. Not unless Everything fails and everyone needs everyone else in order to survive. Then, the warm and cozy feelings might come forward, but only so long as no one perceives they're on the losing end, at the very least.

Ownership, practically speaking, is temporary at best. Whether it be in a personal relationship, or the rallying behind a board of directors or a board of "keepers." That becomes more important than all being friends. The more universal kind of fellowship is prevented by the effects of the nature of the quest and the competition which results, which can confuse the original quest itself. Contradiction. A peaceful coming to terms (not equivalent to, but a reasonable alternative) can be prevented quite on purpose by aggression or lies, which serve no person over the longer time frame. It can make for division between people who should be together, and bring together those whose aims can be aided by another's influence or approval. Even a kind of bondage. Whatever the situation, the maintanence of the affiliation as it is, with possible loopholes for an outlet, becomes paramount, for good or otherwise.

So, the answer is the need to dominate and in some way, own, via that domination. That is a reason why we can't all be friends, or at least have an honest kindness towards all and reasonably expect that in return.. That's the beginning. It gets convoluted, ugly and very sad. In the extreme, all might stand to lose.

Cody

[TaoBoy]

Great answer. And unfortunately true. :(

The MA scene here in Oz is no doubt small than that of North America - but the politics and 'we are the best' mentality is still a big problem. The EGO just gets in the way and clouds everything.

[Cody]

pleasure to meet you.
bow,

Cody