Dragon face?

[cricri]

I've found this strange pisture in a website. This web site called it the dragon face. What are your thought about this?

http://hong-gia.freeyellow.com/drgnface.gif

The website is http://www.hong-gia.org/

[The Heritic]

look at his pecks, looks like his implants got poped!!!,, lol sorry i couldnt resist

we are the wakeful, wry, and watchful -a.f.i

[WenJin]

Hehe there is also the tiger face,leopard face and cranes beaks....etc....very typical

[fiercest tiger]

i heard he also has dragons breath!

it says on their website that he and his sifu are undefeated! but doesnt say what of or who, where , when anything happenend.


did i mention that im undefeated!! :D

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[cricri]

I do understand your react. I do not feeling confortable with people saying that they are undefeated and it makes me smiling, so do I.

But the question I was wondering behind this picture is : some people says that the ging is developped by the tendon and not by the muscle. I've never seen someone showing his muscle like this. Actually he seems not having muscle. So do you think that that kind of performance might represent a certain level of skill or it is just a circus performance?

[This message was edited by cricri on 07-15-01 at 11:59 PM.]

[South Paw]

If he strips you can see the entire dragon's face ;)

Isn't Hong Gia the same as Hung Gar. They also use the 5 elements and 5 animals as in Hung Gar.
It is known that Hung Gar does exist in Vietnam.

Secret style? Two million students?

South Paw

[Colin]

looks like finger through the toilet paper face..........

[cricri]

I agree with you that a style cannot be secret and having two million practicioners. For me it is just a marketing stuff, and it is not my business. :)

But this picture is uncommon and I wonder why a style prefers to show that kind of picture for demonstrating that they have a certain level of kung fu. I do not know if kung fu and that kind of muscle are related. What do you think?

About Hong gia and hung gar I made also the relation when I've been in their website.But the few pictures of hung gar masters I saw do not show the same muscular shape than this picture. So I don't think that they are related. I might be wrong.

cricri :)

[fiercest tiger]

is this a hung gar move? because this move is in yau kung mun's 1st form and the chinese name is dim sun kuil "hit the heart bridge" its a dim mak strike for attacking the heart!!!

but didnt know there is a dragons face behind certain moves, hung gar people are sometimes ripped through the dynamic tension, so i think he still can be a hung gar practitioner. what do you guys think?? :)

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[cricri]

For me the dragon eyes are the tits and the arch of the eyebrows. And that the reason why the name of this picture is dragon face.

Hung gar is known for being a powerful style. I understand powerful as having big muscle power.

In some other styles as there are some exercice for working the tendon and bone that the firerce tiger's style seems to have.

For me the result of the two way of working are different. the hung gar way seems to give people with big muscle (big pecs...). You can see the picture in the South Paw's profile.

But the result of the other way is unknown for me. And that picture might be that result. because the tendon seems to be here

I would like to have your opinion.

[IronFist]

Someone get that guy a cheese burger!

Iron

[cricri]

Ironfist,

I did not see that subject from that angle. And You might be right. This picture seems old and I guess that at that time Vietnamese people were lacking of food. And it might still be going on like this by now. It can explain why the guy has so little of muscle.

But I do not agree with on one point : A cheese burger has too much cholesterol. :)

But my question is still open. assuming that this guy was starving do you think that he was showing some kung fu skill?

[fiercest tiger]

it looks as if he is reaching for some food too! :eek:

beggars style alright...hahahaha

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[IronFist]

cricri,

um, was that a sarcastic responce to my cheeseburger comment? I said the burger thing cuz he's skinny. I don't know where he's from or anything, but two things still hold true:

1. if he had a lack of food, he couldn't develop muscle.

2. that guy does appear to have some developed muscle.

Iron

[cricri]

Ironfist,

when i read first your post I did not understand what you meant by cheese burger. But a while I understood that you said that he is skinny
due to a lack of food. That was an aspect I did not think about it and the way you said it make me smile.

That is the reason of the tone of my answer.

But for me the thread of this picture is :

what is the most appropriated muscular shape for Kung fu? I do not want to talk about how to be more efficient in a move. (there are a lot of criteria like timing, body move, spirit...). I just want to talk about the root of the motion like gazoline in a car. I try to catch what is diesel or gazoline in kung fu.

This concept is hard to catch. For instance, a lot of people think that ttfc is the root of the power. I do not see that like that. It is a very essential think to work but it is just a body motion (I understand that like, but I am not a specialist). I have the following question to which I do not have an answer. once you get ttfc how can you improve it? Which physical ability and not technical ability do you have to improve ? here is the muscular shape role, for me.

Nota : I do not want to talk about chi, energy.. I do not know a lot of people who know what it is

[mad taoist]

From what I have gatherered , isometric / dynamic muscle building is often seen as more beneficial to martial artists than lifting weights -- wether it is or not I do not want to debate.

Isometrics (muscle building with body weights, etc) achieves results quicker and is safe to do so without bulking up the same way that using weights can do so to one's body ...

A isometrically muscled person (sp?) is usually more cabled and wiry and ripped than a builder .... I'm pretty sure this is right !

'If we do not go within, we go without'.

[mantis108]

My friend, I hate to see people take you walking in circles. Here something about the physiology for you to look at. Hope it helps.

Twofold Path of Dynamic Tension
By Robert Hui
July 21, 2001

“To go fast, one must first slow down” is a popular philosophical point of view in Chinese martial arts.

Taijiquan, an internal art, uses this concept as a training methodology. Even an external style like the Hung Gar has dynamic tension form, Tit Sin Kuen, as strength and Qigong building routine, which is similar in concept. The slow and laborious movement of Tit Sin Kuen (Iron Wire Fist) best exemplifies dynamic tension, which is said to have the ability to transform a weakling into a strong person. Looking into the physiology of the dynamic tension, one can’t help but wonder the wisdom and knowledge of the masters of the pass. The vocabulary and terminology might not be the same because of cultural differences; however, it is quite remarkable if the western terminologies are used to analyze dynamic tension.

Dynamic Tension has a twofold path. It simultaneously uses musculoskeletal stresses and isotonic to build speed and strength. There is a powerful stretch and deliberate push action with a very focused mind. Breathing is coordinated through the intense yet relaxed mental focus.
The musculoskeletal stress, the stretch, as found in the Kiu Sao, is done with the hands raised at shoulder level. The tip of the upright open palms, fingers wide apart pointing upward and the thumbs pointing forward, should align both vertically and horizontally with the shoulders. Without loosing the alignment, the elbows are dropped in a deep V shape. After a 30 seconds pause, the fingers, except, the index fingers, are bent into claw shape. The hands are then drawn to the sides of the chest without loosing the stretch. A deliberate push follows and returns the hands to the starting position. This is done 3 times in horse stance. At the end of the third push all the stored energies would be released through a double-handed finger jab. The exercise is performed slowly and powerfully.

This upper limbs formation tightens the muscle spindle, which houses the intrafusal fibers that register the amount of stretch within a muscle. The nerve cells that are wrapped around the intrafusal fibers send a signal to the central nervous system (CNS.) The signal although strong would not trigger the stretch reflex that generates a contraction, which would stop the stretching as to prevent injury. Mental focus prevents premature release of power. This promotes the sensitive of the muscle spindle and simulates the communication between the CNS, and the intrafusal fiber along with its adhering nerve cells. The stronger the communication, the better the neural hypertrophy, which usual happens within 3 to 4 weeks into the training. The intrafusal fibers store energy which purpose is to contract the muscle spindle to a safer length to prevent injury. The size and strength of the intrafusal fibers determine the amount of energy that they can store.

Isotonic, which is anaerobic based, is introduced once the claw is ready. The deliberate pushing motion recruits the Type 2B muscle fibers; also known as fast twitch fibers B, which is the thickest in size of the extrafusal fibers. The muscles fibers, which are different from the intrafusal fibers, are essentially being starve of oxygen and are caused to break down. The chemical process, which is affectionately know as the burn among the strength training circles, is described as Qi manifestation in Chinese martial arts term. As the muscles fibers heal they becomes thicker in diameter, which allows them to store more energy. Muscular hypertrophy, gain in muscle mass, happens about 3 to 4 months time into the training. The fast twitch muscle B can contract very quickly. They provide the power to handle heavy workload.

The stretch and the push must be done at the same time. At the apex of the stretch-push, enormous amount of energy is stored. When the CNS finally receives the signal to return the intrafusal and extrafusal muscle fibers to the rest state. A fast and powerful contraction would release all the stored energy though the straightening of the arms with the finger jabs. Both the speed and power augmentation is achieved because dynamic tension addresses both the neural and muscular hypertrophy. Think of it as having both a racecar engine and a diesel truck engine at the same time.

The twofold path of dynamic tension satisfies the ancient Chinese philosophical point of view. Furthermore, it is well within the scientific scope of modern training theories as well. Go slow before going fast is not mere motto to enchant martial artists. It is a valid training philosophy, which contains the wisdom of the master of yesteryears.

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[BAI HE]

buy a bowfex, it relies soley on the "dynamic tension" of the composite rods. It's free standing and can adapt to most martial fist movements, is harder on the muscles than free weights through the range and much safer than free weight.

Furthermore, Bruce Lee was not only a pioneer in eastern gong-fu, he integrated western "philosophies" in his training acumen and esoteric eatern practices (Yoga). While many poeple discount his gong-fu prowess, you can't that he was a wwell conditioned athlete.

[BAI HE]

my typing skills suck.

[cricri]

My friend Mantis 108,

Thank you for your help I tried to get the book you recommend on amazone.com, but they do not have it. Do you know where I can buy it?

I knew the hung gar move you describe, but I did not know the reason of the slow move. I guess that Iron Wire in Iron Wire Fist (Tit Sin Kuen) represents the twitch fibers B.

Do you think that this picture can represent this Iron wire?

You seems to say all chinese martial art has this kind of work (To go fast, one must first slow down) , at least tai chuan and Hung gar.I guess that tang lang, pak mei as well.

So do you think that the school which do not have that kind of slow routines or motions miss a big part of the martial art pleasure?