Escrima

[Axiom]

Hi all :)

Just wondering how common it is to practice some Escrima with Wing Chun. In my class we do some work with Escrima sticks, something I have just started and am really enjoying :) I think it's mostly because it's an interesting thing to do, and provides an opportunity for some weapons training fairly early on, since it takes quite a while til you're ready for the pole. I have seen Escrima and other Philipino arts mentioned a few times around here, so I guess it's not that unusual.

So, yes or no?

[Neo]

Hi Axiom

Its a common pairing that Ive seen outside of the organisation I teach with. Within EBMAS (the Emin Boztepe Martial Arts System), we are linked with the LatosaEscrima Concepts, as taught by GM Rene Latosa. In the UK, this is co-ordinated by Master Steve Tappin. It stems from the original organisation that all parties belonged to, the EWTO, until last year when Si-fu Emin broke away rom them, followed by GM Rene and Mater Steve.

Within WT, the WT weapons are not taught until a high technician level, so to give students the chance to train with and against weapons, they can also train in LatosaEscrima. Sadly I wish I had more time to train in both, but occasionally I blow the dust off the sticks and have a bash.

Give me an email if you wish to discuss further, I teach just north of London in Luton.

[AndrewS]

FWIW-

As a WT/Latosa Escrima guy- here's what I get from my escrima line
-strong emphasis on balance and the ground usage called 'root' in Chinese martial arts
-whole body power with a primary initial emphasis on power derived from weight-dropping and contraction
-and lastly, probably best for my WT- 'chi sao for my eyes'- a large volume of practice focusing on reading an opponent at variable ranges (variable weapon length), and subsequently bridging while maintaining the ability to chance (an ability derived in part from the static practices of the first mentioned trait).

And, oh yeah, the state of consciousness that make it pretty near instinctual to find some form of weapon in any serious threat scenario, because the bottom line is that you can inflict a hell of a lot more damage with a weapon used properly than you can with your hands.

Later,

Andrew

[Axiom]

Neo, thanks, I appreciate the offer. I have a teacher so I feel I ought to ask him first if I have any questions, but now I know a second person to ask, if my teacher has any trouble answering :)



Is practicing Escrima alongside Wing Chun a particularly Wing Tsun (the lineage) thing? Is it uncommon outside of that line?

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I too used to do the Latosa system of Kali for a time when I was with the WT org. I found that the system did not fit me as well as I would have liked so I decided to train in the Pekiti Tirsia system of Kali as taught by Leo Gaje. I found the concepts and priniciples of this art to go hand in hand with many of the underlying principles of Wing Chun. The footwork is very interesting and a study of footwork with weapons will have a direct beneficial carry over, IMHO, to fighting without weapons. Other than that there is a different mental aspect trained when facing a weapon.

Outside of the WT lineage there is Francis Fong who is based in the Atlanta area. He has been able to incorporate some kali/escrima into or with his Wing Chun. I am sure there are others as well.

The key is to not to try and do Kali or Wing Chun. IMO the goal should be to take the foundation art, in my case Wing Chun, and integrate what you like or feel will be helpful into your Wing Chun. Of course, you should have a very firm grounding in your own style first. The nice thing is that both FMA and Wing Chun are very similar in many of their concepts.

Peace,

Dave

[byond]

hi andrew....i think only wuss's that listen to cof practise escrima....( oh wait a minute i listen to cof...)
perhaps i need to taste some differant tea....lol...:)

wc has everything i need...
but ...i have a high regard for escrima as well as tai boxing , western boxing , and grappling....and it makes perfect sence in the "wt" situation or other wing chun where you dont learn the weapons early on...to subsidise your learning, if that is your interest, as long as wt principles are not violated...cause than you would be training bad habits...

[reneritchie]

Hey Brian,

I think we do (at least I did) begin weapons training early on, as almost everything done in the hand sets built towards the knives, and even if you don't know the knives, if you've worked the hand sets, you can pick up knives or short sticks/rods, etc. and with just a little practice, use them with some skill.

RR

(FWIW - I never learned Escrima or any other art with weapons (besides some firearms stuff), but hold it in high regard).

[AndrewS]

Hey Brian,

Mr. Latosa's system marries pretty well with WT. It does train a different system of motion and mechanics, but, IMHO, one fairly easily reconciled and in no way against first principles. Latosa's approach to teaching and learning escrima is pretty personal and very subtle- he's a a superb teacher who brings out the tiny details that make something work- so over and above the 'system' (which is ultimately just expression of principlesfor you- timing, distance, power, balance, transition), the advantage in learning from him (or Steve Tappin) is, for me, in getting a close look at those principles, more than any technique. Almost every seminar I've been at with him (10 or 15 by now) has focused on something basic, usually a forehand strike, and after each one I've walked away palpably better. Over one 3 hr period he got me in the very weird place of thinking in smaller time, and that ability to read and work off your read translates to everything. More than that, there are some piece of hand work in WT which, while not the same as those used in escrima, benefit from cross-training, notably hooks, and, as I'm discovering, fak sao.

Yes, I'm a drooling Latosa fan.

Rene- I hear you when it comes to extrapolating the weapons from the hands. I think at a certain point, once you get the system in your body it starts to come out in everything you do.

Later,

Andrew

[yuanfen]

I have attended a seminar by Rene Latosa . Some years ago in the valley here.(Phoenix metro) I enjoyed it. I watch good exponents of other styles from time to time.
But I do think and have found that wing chun is very versatile and teaches impressive controls for using sticks or a stick very efficiently from a wing chun structure and wing chun dynamics.

[byond]

hi ren!!....what an incredible point you made...how true...when i first picked up a pair of bot tzam do,as you mentioned, i was quickly able to adapt my hand movements.....but you need to have the right "vision" to understand that...know what i mean?

hi andrew!!!.....sounds like mr.latosa is a rare gem in the current martial art world....(aarrrrr i hate technique martial arts)..if i can catch a seminar i will.....first hand learning on that level is something we should all always keep are eyes open to.....im still waiting for boztepe sifu....lol....im trying to catch up with him when he is in chicago twords the end of the year.....

hi yuanfen.....i agree..i play with 2 sticks on occasion using wc dynamics and it translates nicely...though my abanico i debowed off my old jeet kune do buddy ;)
.b

[iblis73]

I have to admit, after tasting Filipino Martial Arts, I kinda prefer them to my WT. They just seemed more "natural" to me. I've done Latosa and Pekiti Tirisa-both are great. The really neat thing about FMA is that you start using knives and sticks on day one. They are also very mobile arts.