Boycott all those who claim to teach or be a certified Shifu in 18 Daoist Palms

[Dale Dugas]

18 Daoist Palms is the garbage fu system that Jim Lacy is trying to sell as the best and most autentic Chinese Martial Arts system.

I humbly ask all those out there to boycott any and all who claim to be shifu or lohons under Jim Lacy. They are nothing, and have nothing to offer you but crap fu.

Write Panther Productions and ask them why they put this garbage on tape and sell it to you for $49.95 per tape.

Some people in the CMA community have refused to sell Lacy's tapes, but chose to give them away as free entertainment tapes when you ordered from their supply company.

Write Black Belt and ask them why they keep printing Jim Lacy's "all other styles are nothing compared to mine" articles.

Many people have been conned and swindled by this man, and it needs to stop.

Dale Dugas

[woliveri]

For as long as I can remember this problem with Jim Lacy has been going on and it really puts a black mark on you guys rather than Lacy. Why not have Doo Wai make a statement regarding Lacy's material on a web site and be done with it. Consider some of us that might be looking at Bak Fu Pai as a school. Would we want to join a school who spends more time than they should in a name calling game? It's just like a marriage going through a divorce. Who are you going to believe when this stuff is dragged out into the open. Now I don't know Jim Lacy but have spoken to him on the phone and based on that conversation I would not want to train with him but I do have a qi gong exercise that I received from someone who did train with Jim and I can tell you all, based on my experience with many other qi gong exercises, that this one is very nice and not fake or made up. Do I want to learn from Jim? As I said above, not at all. But it also makes me wary of official schools too. Why? Because of my experience in another kung fu school where the top student left to train in Wu Shu and that Master stopped teaching freely to all his students and started to water down his material. The loyal students got burned because of the actions of another. So who's to say this is not happening here. When I go to a Bak Fu Pai school how can I be assured of getting quality material, material that hasn't been watered down, from this school? The best way for you guys to handle Lacy in my opinion is to represent quality, forbid your students to associate with him, and just move on. How can you train with focus with this crap always on your minds?

Anyway, I wish you all the best.

There is no spoon. "The Matrix"
There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. "The Matrix"

[billy_pilgrim]

Thanks for the advice.

Of course, you could do what every student should do when embarking on a course of study...rather than simply believe everything some silly con man like Lacy tells you, why not contact the person he claims as his teacher on your own???? Why should "we" have to do all the work, take some responsibility over yourself and over your training. This is a good rule of thumb, not just in BFP, but any system.

[billy_pilgrim]

Woliveri,
Sorry that this is all soooo redundant for you, but, in reading your post, I wonder how much attention you've been paying????

About the Chi Gung you have...
Lacy stole some tapes.
Much of the info on said tapes was not BFP, but other stuff the GM had picked up, this does not make the material fake, but it does make it a lie when Lacy presents it as BFP.
THAT said, a LOT of what the guy teaches is FAKE/MADE UP/FABRICATED, etc, and did not come from the original pilfered videos. As for your chi gung, maybe it's legit, maybe it's not, why roll the dice?
Furthermore, why not just say "thanks" for the warning and move on? Why is it that everyone who defends Lacy either directly or indirectly ALWAYS has a tape or two of his somewhere in the closet. Where's Turiyan spinning conspiracy theories when we need him?
You say you wouldn't want to be Lacy's student, and I believe you, problem is, Lacy's not looking for students, only customers, make sure you don't fall into that latter category either.

Take care.

[woliveri]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Of course, you could do what every student should do when embarking on a course of study...rather than simply believe everything some silly con man like Lacy tells you, why not contact the person he claims as his teacher on your own???? Why should "we" have to do all the work, take some responsibility over yourself and over your training [/quote]

You're being a bit presumptuous here regarding my school selection methods aren't you?

If you're going to take that position then why not apply it to everyone else? That is, create a web site with GM Doo Wai's statement on the BFP's site (the only one I know is the San Diego Site) and be done with it? You could also hand out flyers at the school. I don't see any posts here by GM Doo Wai. What are his thoughts? Does he instruct you all to post these things? Does he know and/or care?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Why is it that everyone who defends Lacy either directly or indirectly ALWAYS has a tape or two of his somewhere in the closet. [/quote]

I'm not defending Lacy and I don't have any of his tapes. What I'm saying, again, is that you all are tarnishing your own image as much as Lacy's.


As far as I have found out there is only one school in the US with permission to teach BFP and that is in San Diego. I have been there, spoken to the students, had an introduction to the art and a free introductory lesson. From what I've seen it's a very good school and represents quality and I wouldn't mind training there when the time is right for myself.

I don't see your name on the Offical web site. Where did you or are you training now Billy?

There is no spoon. "The Matrix"
There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. "The Matrix"

[billy_pilgrim]

http://www.whitetigerkungfu.com

Please tell me how my image is being tarnished by telling the world the truth about this individual?
That said, if my image is tarnished in the process, it's a small price to pay, wouldn't you agree? But thanks for your concern.

I don't pretend to speak for the GM, or BFP, but I am more than willing to tell what I know, if you've heard it all before(?) and have grown tired of it, then just change the channel...

Take care.

[Ulf_SD]

As a member of the San Diego schoo, I can tell you that there are BFP members that don't talk about Lacy all the time. At our kwoon, the only time Lacy is talked about is when somebody asks...and that's pretty rare (Except when new students log into the message boards and see people ranting about him there.)

I'm glad to see you visited us down in San Diego, and that you had a good experience. Do you remember who you talked with?

Anyway, you said:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The best way for you guys to handle Lacy in my opinion is to represent quality, forbid your students to associate with him, and just move on. How can you train with focus with this crap always on your minds? [/quote]
to which I quite agree. That is exactly how we handle ourselves at our school. But, of course, none of us actually trained with Lacy, or spent our hard earned money on Lacy crap. I guess if I had, I'd spend a lot more time and energy ranting about him too.

[woliveri]

The site I'm familier with is:
http://www.tigerkungfu.com/

I don't understand the following posted on your site:


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Whitetigerkungfu.com is not associated with the International Bak Fu Pai Association.

We are also not directly affiliated with Grandmaster Doo Wai, but have been in good standing for many years.
[/quote]

Can you expand on this? What does this mean?

There is no spoon. "The Matrix"
There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. "The Matrix"

[woliveri]

I believe the gentleman's name was Tom? It's been a while. Also, I met David(?) who built the whitetiger web page?

Does this sound correct?

There is no spoon. "The Matrix"
There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. "The Matrix"

[Ulf_SD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I believe the gentleman's name was Tom? It's been a while. Also, I met David(?) who built the whitetiger web page?
Does this sound correct? [/quote]
Very correct. I'm David ;) Tom's still there too. You should drop back down sometime, spend the day training with us.

[woliveri]

Would love to. I'm getting much better working through my issues via Herbs and such so perhaps in the near future.

Thanks for the invite.

There is no spoon. "The Matrix"
There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. "The Matrix"

[billy_pilgrim]

The whitetigerkungfu.com site isn't mine, so I can't comment on any of the specifics, send them an email if you're interested. As for commenting on Lacy, if you go to the message board on that particular site, you'll notice the GM comments on the guy quite a bit, and with very good reason. Some people share his passion and indignation, others don't, I suppose it's up to the individual...