specific muscle training for PM

[TaiChiStorm]

Hello friends ,
I got holidays one week ago ,and I will stay at home for myself for about 4 weeks. I really want to spend as much time as possible for the improvment of my PM skills. Beside form training ,I would like to do something for my body condition.

Which exercises ,specific for PM would YOU recomment to me???

Thanx a lot!!!

TCS

[SaMantis]

Probably the more experience mantis players here will have more training tips, especially regarding weight training which I haven't done much of (would like to do more if I could find the time).

I do a few extra conditioning exercises recommended by my instructors:

1. Cardio -- running about 1-3 miles, but no further than that. Enough to build up endurance but not too far. I've read that running long distances doesn't help your fast-twitch muscles which give you speed. You can also jump rope, go hiking, whatever. (I've found that hiking really helps improve horse stances.)

2. Strength -- pushups, situps, leglifts. Do fingertip, knuckle, and regular pushups. I'm still not good at fingertips so I practice them without so much weight over them, for example when doing splits I rest fingertips on the floor instead of my whole hand.

Weight training I've heard good and bad things about, it's best to get advice from someone who knows what muscles to train and how.

And your style of mantis probably has several specific exercises to do in addition to stances; definitely do those regularly.

Peace,

Sam

[NorthernMantis]

Like in all sytems you might want to concentrate on basics more. Also try to work on using your waist more and having more jing. It can help alot with techniques like hook,grapple, pluck.

Take time to know the 12 character verbal formula well as those are the basis of mantis.

[TaiChiStorm]

Thank you a lot ,
Sa, I will concentrate on the push ups and sit ups and the other things you told me. I probably won't be able to do much with weighs ,because I've got problems with my back anyway!!!
To use the fingertips might be a good idea ,because you definatly use your fingers a lot in PM.

NM ,what do you mean by the "12 character verbal formula well as those are the basis of mantis" ??? (sorry about my bad English!!)

I think the strength of your arms must play an important role in Praying Mantis!!! I read that the animal Praying Mantis can lift up its own weight many times with its arms!!! But of course it is true that you take most power out of your waist!!! That's because I have chosen such a style and not something like Wing Tsun (which is pretty popular here in Germany and also in my city) These guys are all bears ,(but also ideots)

Greets
TJS

[NorthernMantis]

From my understanding the 12 verbal formula is the basis of what mants is about. I'm sure Tainan and other's who have a deeper understannding of this can help you out with that. There are actually 31 formulas but the other ones are add ons to compliment the system.

The 12 verbal formula is: hook,grapple,pluck,block,intercept,chop,contact,cl ing,tag,lean,dodge, and bounce.


There was a brief disscussion on it on a thread recently on this board that goes into greater detail.

I see your profile says you practice taiji mantis. It's better if you ask your sifu about it.

[Kope]

Make sure you are training each of the four metabolic processes that are involved in martial arts: phosphagen System, phosphocreatine, and the glycogen/lactic acid System, and the aerobic system. Most conditioning programs fail to include all four!!

Lots of very experienced folks tend to think about only aerobic and anaerobic excercise. This is ok for non-sport specific conditioning. But for sport-specific conditioning it will leave a major hole in your conditioning program.

Make sure you include lots of plyometric training into your routines. Make sure that you focus on training one metabolic pathway at a time. If you tune your conditioning routines to each metabolic pathway you can increase the energy capacity (and thus your power and endurance) of each system.

[Art D]

kope
eniglish please.
you sound very smart and informed, I am a dumbSh*t what are you saying ? & and how do I do these things ? Can you use lay man terms . or explane each system, how it works and how to approuch your trainning method . any good articals you can point me to. thanks man

[woliveri]

Art, I think he's referring to internal vs external as far as I can see. I believe you know the difference in metabolism when practicing external KF and Internal wuji standing. There's definately a difference between standing (yang in yin) and moving (yin in yang).


So I can see two aspects. Not sure about the others.

[Kope]

Ok, I'll try to put it into english terms :)

Basically, human muscles use a chemical compound known as ATP for energy. That's the ONLY thing muscles use for energy. ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate) is broken down into ADP (adenosine di-phosphate), and the energy that is released from that chemical reaction is used to fuel the muscle fibre.

In order to achieve this breakdown of ATP to ADP, the body has a number of different energy transport systems. These systems are commonly broken up into anaerobic (those not involving oxygen) and aerobic (those involving oxygen).

Thus we get aerobic excercises and anaerobic excercises -- the deliniating factor being if the ATP->ADP+energy reaction uses oxygen or not.

However, the body is more complicated than that. There are multiple ways for the body to break ATP down into ADP without oxygen. These different energy pathways use the chemicals phosphagen, phosphocreatine, and glycogen/lactic acid. So there are actually 3 different types of anaerobic energy transport systems. The way you excercise anaerobically determines which of these transport systems you are working.

The phosphagen and phosphocreatine systems are not really seperable in terms of training. They use a very fast reaction to breakdown ADP and form ATP again. Because of the way the system works, the ATP levels in the muscle remain fairly constant while the phosphagen adn phosphocreatine levels are depleated. This system can supply a very high level of energy for about 20-30 seconds. In actuallity, the phosphagen system supplies energy for a few seconds or so, when the phosphocreatine system takes over and can run out the remaining 20 to 30 seconds.

After that length of time, the phosphagen and phosphocreatine levels in the muscles are depleated, so the muscles turn to a glycogen/lactic acid reaction to break ATP down into ADP. This system can provide more total energy than the preceeding phosphagen/phosphocreatine system, but not as quickly. The results of this reaction is lactic acid in the muscle tissues.

After that, "oxidative phosphorylation" takes over and you are into aerobic excercise.

All this means that there are 3 different types of "anaerobic" systems for providing energy to the muscles and 1 type of "aerobic" system.

Now, when you are training for a specific activity (and not just for general health), it is important to train each energy transport system and not just anaerobic and aerobic. The reason why it is important is that "anaerobic" is just a general category and not a single energy system.

How this translates to martial artists is that excercises that are called "plyometric" should be added to a the typical weight lifting and running/jumping rope/windsprint training session.

Weight training typically excercises the anaerobic glycosis system. It doesn't work to expand the creatine and phosphogen carrying capacity of muscles so does realtively little for the first two types of anaerobic energy transport.

Plyometric excercises focus on short bursts of high energy followed by sufficient rest to build the phosphogen and creatin levels back up in the muscle fibres.

The key to solid plyometric work is that you use a short burst of VERY high energy, followed by a fairly long rest period to allow the muscle to "reset" to avoid using the glycogen pathway for energy.

Examples of a plyometric workout would be the medicine ball pushup: take a medicine ball and place it under your left hand, get into a pushup position. Launch yourself into the air, clap your hands, and then land with the medicine ball under your right hand. Repeat as fast as you can for no more than 20 seconds. AFter that 20 seconds, take a nice long break from ecxercising those muscle groups -- like 10minutes or more. Then repeat. Continue this burst of energy, long break, until you can't do the excercise any more. This will mean you've fully exhausted the phosphogen energy pathway in those muscle group.

You can devise similar high-energy, short durration excercises for your other muscle groups. The key is that it must be an explosive application of force. VERY fast muscle contractions are important.

Add these types of excercises to a solid weight and aerobic program and you'll notice a huge difference in your conditioning.

Couple of caveats: do NOT do plyometric workouts if you are not already in SOLID shape. These excercises place very high loads on your muscles and joints and you WILL injur yourself if you aren't ready for it.

Also, if you are very heavy (220+) don't engage in "depth drops" or other plyometric leg excercises from a height of more than about a foot. Your knees won't take it unless you are an elite athlete or some other mutant :)

When designing plyometric workouts you should focus on sport specific training -- that is: your excercises should focus on the muscles that you need to have fast, powerful energy bursts from in your specific sport. And it really will vary from sport to sport.

[NorthernMantis]

After that length of time, the phosphagen and phosphocreatine levels in the muscles are depleated, so the muscles turn to a glycogen/lactic acid reaction to break ATP down into ADP. This system can provide more total energy than the preceeding phosphagen/phosphocreatine system, but not as quickly. The results of this reaction is lactic acid in the muscle tissues.

Train too hard and you get sore muscles due to lactic acid build up.That's the only thing I understood.

Plus I heard that the lactic acid can turn into amonia and eat away at your muscle.

[Kope]

Train too hard and you get sore muscles due to lactic acid build up.


Nope. Only if you train the glycogen energy pathway too hard will this happen.

*sigh* I'm trying to make this easy, honest I am :) . Let me try one more time.

There are 4 ways the muscles use ATP to create energy.
1) phosphogen reaction
2) phosphocreatine reaction
3) glycogen reaction
4) aerobic (oxidative phosphorylation) reaction

Typical weight lifting and running (aerobic) workouts train only the last 2 energy pathways.

The first 2 energy pathways are used for high energy, short durration excertion -- shorter durration than even a typical 12-rep weight lifting set.

Sport specific training to improve your performance SHOULD include training each of the 4 energy pathways.

The first two energy pathways are not really seperably trainable, but can be trained by utilizing plyometric excercises correctly.

These excercises must be devised as follows:

1) very high energy output
2) very fast movement
3) short durration set (less than 30 seconds -- usually around 20 seconds is best)
4) focus on movements using the body in a way similar to the way you use the body in the sport you are training for
5) long recovery between sets to allow the energy systems to reset.
6) enough sets to completely exhaust the phosphogen/phosphocreatine energy store in the muscle fibre.

These excercises also are not suited to someoen who isn't already fairly fit - as they place very high stresses on your muscles and joints.

Leg work excercises that are often employed should be entered into with caution if you are a very heavy person (220#+) as you can easily damage your ankles and knees if you aren't exceedingly fit.

As an aside - I don't know where you got that lactic acid will turn into ammonia and eat away at your muscles. That isn't true. however, what is true is that high levels of lactic acid in the muscle fibre will considerably slow down the replentishment of ATP in the muscle fibre -- thus temporarily "weakening" the muscle. But this is part of the natural energy pathway process of your muscles and isn't a problem that a day or two of rest won't fix. Lactic acid is the natural bi-product of the glycogen energy cycle. It is not harmful to you (when produced by your own muscles and you aren't loading up on some very high concentrate dietary source, anyway) in any way.

[Art D]

Kope
I think I get it It's all about the way and prosess that atp adp is converted in muscel contraction. 1) phosphogen reaction
2) phosphocreatine reaction are the first phases of this convertion . so I should do high energy out put excersises and stop before the latic reaction starts. thus building those pathway. souds like this should give me more enduranc in these phases of enrgy out put,= fastr ,stronger striking , kicking ect ?

[TaiChiStorm]

Thanx to all you guys!!! I have already started my intensive summer training!!! I also asked my master for advice ,but his answer was only ,that I should more concentrate on my form and my stances ,because there is still much improvement neccessary!!! :D