Something Different

[red5angel]

OK, after making a deal with Aelward to try to post more nice ;) I did some thinking ove the weekend. Before I post anything else this weekend maybe I can explain a little of my perspective and why I am so, as yuanfen likes to help clarify, really excited now to be doing wingchun.
The one thing about the few schools I visited that I can say with confidence is that they were all very similar. Although there were differences, in general it was all pretty much the same. I wasnt impressed with any of them, although that doesn't mean you may not have been had you been there. This is where I get most of my perceptions.
This stuff didnt excite me at all, it was pretty cookie cutter it seemed. To be frank I was even getting sick of doing it and took a few months off to re-evaluate what it was I wanted to do with martial arts.
The reason I got so excited about training under Carl was that his stuff was drastically different, in approach, in the way he taught and the way that he looked at wingchun. I saw demonstrations that were realistic in approach, and impressive at the same time. I also noticed that it was designed to be accessible to everyone, something I have always said wingchun should be.
There is a lot of wing chun out there, all over the world as Rill pointed out. Some of it may be quite good, some of it may be better then what I study now. But I knew that there had to be something better out there then what I was picking up at these other schools and I kept lookingl I found it. My motivation for posting like I do is so that those who havent found what it is they are looking for continue to seek it instead oif settling, thats all.

[yenhoi]

What is so drastically different. Every generalization you just used about Carl applys to nearly every school of any sytle I have ever visited.

The majority of them sucked.

Why are Carl's demonstrations more impressive, more realistic, and more accessible? Why wouldent you expect multiple schools of the same art to appear cookie cutter?

Not being an *******, some other dudes will come flame you in a minute.

[old jong]

I can without a doupt assure you that everybody (O.K. let's say 99.9438271% of the Wing Chun world) Have had a similar experience!...
We all went through a few schools before we were lucky enought to find the one with the good chemistery to fit our very special personnality.;)
It does'nt mean that the "rejects" were not good enough! (How can beginners really know the difference?)but everybody has his own reasons to choose or not choose a school.
The place,the people training there,the Sifu looks and personnality,the presence or absence of women,the hard or semingly softer approach,the uniforms or the lack of it,the odor...A deja vu feeling maybe?...
We all learn by experience.;)

[kungfu cowboy]

Are you really going to keep making the same post over and over? I think we got it down pat by now.

[reneritchie]

red5angel stop trolling

[red5angel]

RR - not trolling I swear! Just trying to explain myself a little better is all, maybe put some perspective on it from my point of view is all.
Speaking of which, does your stuff appear drastically different from the Yip Man WC?

Yenhoi, hard to describe, thats why it sounds so similar to what you are talikng about. If you saw it you would know what I mean. Its all I can say.

[reneritchie]

You can swear all you like, dude, doesn't change a thing. Actions, not words.

Does what I practice look different? Guess it depends on who's looking. Difference and similarity are subjective, like beauty and ugliness - we tend to see what we want to see.

From your line, KJ's probably seen the way I practice the most. From my perspective, Jack Ling (a classmate of Ken Chung's and a really excellent guy) is the closest I've seen in terms of flavor and overall approach (though, of course, that's relative and there are still differences, and some things other's do that are closer...)

RR

[Mithrandir]

Red5,

In case it hasn't occurred to you yet...you're coming off like a jerk. How many people have told you that you are being offensive? If your words are offending the majority of people on this forum then the fault lies with your communication skills. After 8 months of training you are far from the last word on skill. You should try cultivating your listening skills like so many others have already suggested. You can say you aren't trolling...but your words are sounding hollow at this juncture. Are you under the impression that your thoughts and methods are respectable on this forum? If so, you need to shake yourself into reality!

I guess you won't be writing a follow up to the book, "How to Win Friends and Influence People".

Wake Up,
Mithrandir

[red5angel]

RR - you should know trolling better then practically anyone for what they are doing over at the HK forum. Especially since I seemed to have spawned "family members"!

Mithrandir, just about everyone. ;) anyway, give it some time, it will come.

[reneritchie]

r5a - The former VTAA forum is filled with immature people who selfishly value mischief-making over the good of our WCK family, and the blind followers feuled by jealous, petty, pseudo-sifu who attack each other over ego and money at the same expense for our art. Unfortunately, like several others on this forum, I do have some experience in dealing with them. There are different kinds of trolls, though. Some are the afforementioned, others aren't as aggressive or personal, but still know how to get a reaction. That's all it really takes to be a troll, insincere posts designed to cause reaction.

RR

[aelward]

On the positive side, at least r5a isn't trolling anonymously...

In any case, he writes:
> This stuff didnt excite me at all, it was pretty cookie cutter it
> seemed...
> The reason I got so excited about training under Carl was... I
> also noticed that it was designed to be accessible to everyone,
> something I have always said wingchun should be.

That seems to be the classic definition of "cookie cutter" to me... "if it works for me, it will work for you" logic, which I think goes against the flexibility of Wing Chun principles.

[rogue]

"Yenhoi, hard to describe, thats why it sounds so similar to what you are talikng about. If you saw it you would know what I mean. Its all I can say."


R5A,
If you can't describe it in words than either you don't really understand what you're talking about or it's something that has to be experienced, in which case it's pointless to talk about. Now I'm not a WC person so using that excuse on me is fine since I don't have much experience with the concepts or training of WC. But you should be able to explain what you're talking about to Joy, OJ, RR and other experienced WC people without much problem. You keep stating that Carl is superior to other WC people, how so? If you would sit down, think carefully about what exactly Carl does that's different and express it in words, I'd love to know.

[red5angel]

RR - I have noticed the heat you catch on thier, seems like you have your own troll procession there! however, by your own definition - "insincere posts designed to cause reaction. " I am not a troll. My post are not insincere, I assure you. possibly misguided in some views, or to fervent in others but never insincere.

Aelward - you said something ""if it works for me, it will work for you" logic, which I think goes against the flexibility of Wing Chun principles." I am not sure I am understanding you here, can you explain further please? I just want to make sure I understand your statement.

[aelward]

When I hear "cookie cutter," it makes me think that everyone will turn out the same after X-amont of training. I agree with you that Wing Chun should be accessible to everyone, and I think that an approach that assumes everyone is the same is mistaken in some regards. Obviously, we all have two arms and two legs, but those limbs might be longer or shorter than are neighbor. We may be big, we may be small. We may be aggressive or mellow by nature. Therefore, the principles are flexible: they are a compass which points us in the correct direction, and not a set of directions that tell us how to get from one point to another.

Now you say that Carl's approach is accessible to everyone, but at the same time, most of your posts take a very limited view of the applications of principles. Therefore, it seems, you cannot accept that there can be differences in approach that are equally valid. And therefore, you make it seem like his approach is "cookie cutter" to me, even though it is probably just your inexperience talking.

[kungfu cowboy]

Red, what is your goal on this forum?

[red5angel]

Aelward, sounds reasonable to me, I was off on what I thought you had said so thanks for clarifying. As for the applicatiosn of principles, they are simple, simple to understand. It takes work to get them and learn how to apply them, but they are simple to understand. thats why his stuff is accessible to everyone. Like Michael and howard said to me, they thought they were studying good, wingchun (the guy they learned from was popular and well known and liked in the midwest here.). It turned out the guy, although sincere in his teaching, lacked some key knowledge.

KFC- :) just to talk to people about wingchun. There seem to be a good mix of people here, old, young, new, experienced, etc..... I have learned quite abit from some, not so much from others. I am not necessarily here to make friends ;) or pat myself or anyone else on the back. If I can walk away from KFO every once in a while with ajewel or two then I have been succesful. If someone can appreciate what I have had to say at some point, then that is good too. how about you?

[kungfu cowboy]

I'm here purely for entertainment, and occasionally good discussion and information. :p It really seems that you are here to advertise for your lineage. Which is fine. Once. (Or at least once in awhile). Carl is very good. I know it. You know it. You have expressed your opinion on the matter. Repeatedly. Is this all you are going to talk about? Ever? What's your motivation?

[red5angel]

Well, KFC- you must understand one thing, I am not necessarily advertising for Carl, so much as just trying to get people to look harder at what they are doing and the people around them are doing. Carl has several schools and plenty of students so doesnt need a whole lot of help although I am sure he is always looking for new students. He just happens to be the best WC guy I have met. Lately I have tried to discuss the problems with the WC community that I percieve are becoming more prevalent each passing year.

Wujidude - thats a good one. Well, good skill with wing chun, good relationship with my family, and to raise my children right, when I have them. Thats pretty much it, lifes full of little goals of course but those are the driving goals.

[kungfu cowboy]

While I do not necessarily consider your attitude entirely unfounded, it does get a bit overdone. Every post is just another facet of the same thing over and over. You made your point. Are you just trolling? Is this all you will continue to discuss? Are you really that concerned with the wing chun community?!?

[red5angel]

I AM concerned that our art will get watered down and will come under the domain of the Mcdojo. We all should be!

[kungfu cowboy]

If you try to bring something to the masses that requires too much discomfort, time, or depth, it will become diluted in order to make the less interested content with what they are willing to invest. Nature of the beast. Quality always survives in rarity.

[red5angel]

This is true KFC, and sad really. I think especially here in America we sometimes loose sight of where hard work can get us and choose to go the easy route. Its too bad really because that hard work pays off eventually.
We can look around and see people who are hobbyist at almost anything but have dreams of being something more. Sports is a big one. how many guys do you know head out to the football field after a big game to play with some friends? they dream of being those big players but chose to go some other route or just not put the work in anyway. For me, I dont want to dream, you?

[yuanfen]

Red 5 will save us from the Mcdojos. Viva!

[EnterTheWhip]

Viva red5angel! Viva!!!!!

[red5angel]

ETW - you mentioned Toronto and Calr in another stirng and I answered you, check it out.

[yuanfen]

Red5 sez:
Calr in another stirng
------------------------------------
? Lost me!

[Grendel]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Red5 sez:
Calr in another stirng
------------------------------------
? Lost me!
Calr is probably someone from Krypton. Maybe Superman's cousin or cousine. Rene, do you speak Kryptonian or know someone who does?

Thanks.

[anerlich]

Calr is probably someone from Krypton.

If he was from Krypton he'd be called "Calr-El" ,like Jor-El and Kal-El.

[Grendel]

Originally posted by anerlich


If he was from Krypton he'd be called "Calr-El" ,like Jor-El and Kal-El.
You're right, if he were from the Krypton mideast, but Calr is from the midwest.

[anerlich]

I AM concerned that our art will get watered down and will come under the domain of the Mcdojo.

Not wanting to belittle your commitment and the vast experience you've gained from 18 months of chop saki and 7-8 of Carl, but strictly speaking shouldn't we be worrying about coming under the domain of the McKwoon, not the Mcdojo?

I can see the series now:

(Pak) Dar Wars
The McKwoon Strikes Back
Return of the "Jedi Knight from Minneapolis"
The Chop Saki Menace
Attack of the (Mc)Kwoons

I know this is stupid, but if you're reading this thread what does that say about you?

[black and blue]

It says we've just all been hooked by another crazy Angel thread!

There are many dodgy Kwoons - but posting here about them isn't going to get them closed.

Red5Angel,

I too find my Sifu inspirational - the guy's amazing. If you saw him maybe you'd think so too, though we surely do things differently to Carl.

I'm sure if you saw Rene's Sifu, or Anerlich's Sifu or Yuanfen's Sifu or a whole host of other Sifu's you'd think the same thing. On a previous thread you critiqued Emin Bozepe (not my lineage, either), but if you had the chance to train with Leung Ting would you feel his WC was cr@p?

Of course not. Lets post WC threads that don't preach - lets post a few funnies to lighten the mood once in a while.

Enough of threads like this and threads that get ambushed by Carlito's Way. :)

Guys that practise Wong Shun Leung's Way do so quite differently from other lineages. I'd guess they have reasons for doing so... but how often do you see them posting on this forum and causing such anger?

Take a leaf from their book, mate.

Duncan

[red5angel]

If Carl were from Down under would that make him Bizarro Carl? and give him a severe allergy to yellow kryptonite?

"I know this is stupid, but if you're reading this thread what does that say about you?"

I think you might have to explain that one Anerlich?
As for Mcdojos and Mckwoons, I guess if we continue to have people mixing thier arts, not paying attention to what it is they are being taught, or assuming that they are ready to go out and teach at thier own school when they still dont understand wingchun from a student standpoint, we get assaulted by Mckwoons

[kungfu cowboy]

LOL@'Bizarro Carl'!:D

[red5angel]

Sadly, I am a huge superman fan, or used to be anyway so even the yellow Kryptonite thing is superman trivia! :)

[kungfu cowboy]

Warning: Nerd Alert: Yeah, I was more into Marvel, but Superman and Batman were always cool.:)

[red5angel]

Dont get me started on batman! That concept drives me crazy! Have you heard there is a Batmen vs Superman movie in the works?

[kungfu cowboy]

No, that might be cool.

[old jong]

I used to read Superman/Batman comic books a long time ago. I always wondered why Superman was going through all this trouble of carrying a guy with no super powers around wrapped in his cape. Superman could have done the job by himself all the times!...;)

[red5angel]

Exactly Old jong! This guy Batman has no superpowers but he has a utility belt with everything he ever needed conveniently tucke dinside! As far as I am concerned it shouldnt even be a contest!

[gnugear]

Brodie: It's impossible, Lois could never have Superman's baby. Do you think her fallopian tubes could handle the sperm? I gurantee you he blows a load like a shotgun right through her back. What about her womb? Do you think it's strong enough to carry her child?

T.S.: Sure, why not?

Brodie: He's an alien, for christ sake. His Kyrptonian biological makeup is enhanced by earth's yellow sun. If Lois gets a tan the kid could kick right through her stomach. Only someone like Wonder Woman has a strong enough uterus to carry his kid. The only way he could bang regular chicks is with a kryptonite condom. That would kill him!

– conversation between brodie and ts from the film Mallrats

:D

[old jong]

I don't think this movie will be a contest between Superman and Batman. They are after all on the same side! I think they will join force (maybe after some arguments) and fight crime together. Yes Batman has no super powers but he can carry some usefull things in his belt like ;keys,condoms,flask of brandy,flashlight,nude pictures of Robin,E.T.C.
Looking forward for that movie. ;)

[red5angel]

Well, it is tentatively called Superman vs Batman. I think it will probably start out as a fight type thing but then they will have to join up to fight together or something that smacks of comic-like cheese?! I think Gnugear has a good idea for a script, we would just have to call Kevin Smith for approval!

[gnugear]

"Does the THING have a **** made of rock?"

... another timeless quote from Kevin Smith.

[old jong]

Does it comes faster than a bullet?...:rolleyes: :eek:

[Grendel]

Originally posted by red5angel
If Carl were from Down under would that make him Bizarro Carl? and give him a severe allergy to yellow kryptonite?

How do you tell the two Carl's apart? :)

[Grendel]

Originally posted by red5angel
Exactly Old jong! This guy Batman has no superpowers but he has a utility belt with everything he ever needed conveniently tucke dinside! As far as I am concerned it shouldnt even be a contest!
Gawd, I can't believe you! I'm twice your age and even I know that when Batman (The Dark Knight) took on Supie, Batman won, and Supie almost died. Sheesh. You shouldn't depend on me for comix trivia. But, I'm glad I could set you straight.

Regards,

[red5angel]

LOL @ Grendel, I know! Batman freakin won but he had to use some sort of superduper cyborg suit and kryptonite!

[Grendel]

Originally posted by red5angel
LOL @ Grendel, I know! Batman freakin won but he had to use some sort of superduper cyborg suit and kryptonite!
Hmmm. If you think it was a fluke, read the following.

Not sure DC fans would agree with the final analysis, but this is prettyfunny :)

http://www.geocities.com/calliopecomics/mv09.html

JLA vs. AVENGERS...Who shall survive?
by John Jones, Manhunter from Marathon, IL
EMAIL: martianmanhunter2@juno.com
URL: http://www.angelfire.com/ny3/docnebula/index.html
OR: http://calliope.terrashare.com/martian-vision.html

[Rill]

LOL @ Grendel, I know! Batman freakin won but he had to use some sort of superduper cyborg suit and kryptonite!
He was also getting rather old, too. Not that I want to spoil it for anyone who hasn't read them, so I won't go into details, but this was in the original Dark Knight Returns.

Of course, in the latest addition - Dark Knight Strikes Again - Superman gets a good hidin' all over again. Why? Because Batman (complete with utility belt) kicks his ass. And so he should, his costume is much better :)

There's a link to an interview with the director of the movie here. (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1456016/20020710/index.jhtml?headlines=true)

[red5angel]

Dangit, does anyone else see anything worng with batman kicking supermans butt?!?!?!?!?

[byond]

haha...frank miller rocks.....i liked his old daredevil.....
the new daredevil movie looks real phat....i saw the trailer last week......

and yes batman kicked supermans arse....i dont think there is anything wrong with it and i believe wsl could have done the same....