Jim Lacy is a FRAUD! Here is a little proof.

[feldor]

All,

Here is a copy of email sent to a former student, (I was one too), Robert Gary. I work in the computer industry, namely networking and SMS. I have verified the header and routing information on the original email and it IS REAL. So before anyone starts saying it is made up, check it out for yourself.

I hope that those reading will help us stop Jim Lacy's fraud, lieing, and theft of people's hard earned money!

Enjoy,
__________________________________________________

Mr. James Lacy, termination.

In 1995 James Lacy was terminated by his teacher, 6th generation family inherited grandmaster Doo Wai, for making claims that were not true and for breaking martial arts ethics. It should be further noted that James Lacy never had the complete 18 Daoist Palms system, he had only a few actuall forms. These forms were stolen from another student, and were intended for just basic kung fu practice. As anybody can see, James Lacy has no real kung fu skill and can not do most forms without serious injury. It is my intention to set the record strait about James Lacy, and to further let people know of his fraud way.
James Lacy has had only one true skill, he is a grandmaster at fraud skills. Just to set the record strait, his "iron palm" is meerly baked coconuts that he hits with 'external force' to break. One time he went to get his car repaired and he flipped off a mechnic who was working at the shop, he then challeneged the guy to break a coconut. Well the guy broke it and made Lacy look like a punk (he even mentioned this on his own panther tape series). James lacy is a habitutal liar, and there are many who have fallen for his lies. In one email I will list below he actually admitts he stole tapes from a guy named Larry and completly talks trash about his current partner, who's intials are VP.

Please see below all headers are intacked to prove it is real:

Return-Path:
Received: from mh1.cts.com (root@mh1.cts.com [205.163.24.66])
by worf.netins.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA07455
for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 11:15:08 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from mewhing.cts.com (mewhing.cts.com [204.216.153.52]) by mh1.cts.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA13821 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:15:04 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id:
X-Sender: mewhing@king.cts.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:59:34 -0700
To: shifu@netins.net
From: Jung Shee James Lacy
Subject: Re: Our spirit is our diploma.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-UIDL: 8eab2de0f46b645151deaa25239b8db6

Hi:
Do not worry. I have not confirmed a date with Panther. These are just
students that say they can be prepared. Not all those people will be
coming. At least half of those will be sent by video for Panther to edit.
You can do the snake staff, snake fist and anything else you have down. We definitely do not want a circus. Everything will be timed and organized. I
will do my best to get you good enough to break on the palm. Even if you just crack it. I will pick out some good coconuts and have them ready. Just in case, you and I can even give them break footage we do ahead of time to
have ready. We do not know how Doug Walston will look on the nar jar and hou keun. Keep practicing those as I would like to even show both of you on the tape to show different body types. Then again, if Doug does not come through of look good,which I don't he will, we will want to change our plans.
The same with MewHing's level 1 through 9 burning palm. I am certainly up for suggestions. I want you to be happy with whatever we do as well as have full say and veto power if something should be done a different way. Anything you can have pre-done on video will be useful. If someone is not
prepared,sick or does not look good, your video is ready to give them, I am glad I can always trust you to do a great job. Nothing will go to waste. If you think they should get all 9 moving meditations, let me know. Do not worry about breaking. Like I said, you can come with breaking footage, and if push comes to shove we
can just bake some coconuts for the panther videos. I would like you to do it because
it would be a great opportunity for you to leave the bakfupai people in the dust. By shooting for the stars and having our troops do all they possibly can, we will be leaving our competition way behind. We will
not use any students that do not look good. Everyone will send me sample videos of their assignments. I will send you video of them to peruse and
critique. If we both think they look ok, we will use them.
Panther is always a circus. Hollywood itself is a circus. All movie making is a circus. We just need to realize that this is what we must do every
year if we want to be Panther's biggest draw with 100 tapes. You can distribute all the Panther tapes we do plus those we do of our own. The whole thing is a lot of work and no instant gratification. But hey,
look at where patience has gotten me. We will be a household name around
the world while our competitors will have to match the substance, price and
quality of Panther. Not easy to do! Panther's tapes will be a ploy to c**** out our real deal which will be the other stuff we do ourselves. I have to go to town this morning. I will e-mail you again later. It is
very important for me personally to finish up level 1 moving meds for
Panther as well as document level 2 completely. If people have all they need to do the string break from us, what could bakfupai possibly come up
with to top us. We will be the winners of the iron palm race. People all over the world will get very good. This will reflect back favorably on us.
I picked up some sales last night, so if you need a little more time I can extend the deadline, you can send me 1,000.00. Maybe I can help you do two of the meds myself so
that you can do the form and six or seven meds. We can talk about this when you come out here. I will be able to send you Walston's footage by the end of September I hope so you can review it and let me know if we will use it.
Let them say what they want, so who cares how I got those tapes, does it really matter ! They are mine now and I am going boldy to the throne and hope they do not like it. Plus we will reveal to the world that you are the new Jung Shee of the 18 Devils Palms sub-system of Mew Hings 18
Daoist Palms. This will be another Panther first in history and will allow us to
capitalize on being able to make more videos to sell and further create distance
between us and the bakfupai people. So what about vince, he is not any of our
concern, plus he is a nobody who could never break a coconut better than me.
Vince will do what he wants to do but he knows he will never be better than me.
If you are not with us you are against us !
Jung Shee Lacy.


WEll this sum it up..
__________________________________________________

The message speaks fo itself.

Sincerely,
Charles
Bak Fu Pai

[fiercest tiger]

Thanks man, that was funny!

charles how long were you with lacy? who are you training with now?

hahahahaha thanks man! :D

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[Crimson Phoenix]

wow, he sounds like a machiavelic dude who is ready for anything to crush the concurrence...he should work in silicon valley or be a lawyer heheheheeh

[Dale Dugas]

We have been trying to say this for years and now we can show you the crap Jim pulls over on his people. Jim is a conman. Enough said. But then you still see people spout off about being a representative under Jim. There are still people out there who are willing to lie to you and tell you that they have something to offer you. All these fools can offer you is a quick way to lose your hard earned money.

It's time to put Lacy down once and for all as the rabid lie spewing White Supremist piece of garbage that he is. No more sitting around and trying to ignore him. Karma is going to really have a field day with him, when it comes down to it.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas
Ironmonk67

[illusionfist]

Now if we can just get some intercepted emails from Sin Kwang The', our plans for Project: Fraud Annihilation™©® will be complete ;)


Seriously though, was there ever any doubt that Uncle Jim was a fraud?

Peace :D

[Turiyan]

"Shhhh, or everyone will want one"

Robert gary.... Oh yeah, I recall an e-mail I got from him years ago saying the exact opposite of what he's saying now, since his break with lacy...

I wont post it. But thats all you need to know isnt it?

If these people were ex-friends. Think about what they do to people they dont like.

One thing I recall him saying (the files on my old 486) is (paraphrased) "Doo cant be trusted 100%".

The stuff about selling levels of iron palm for 5k a piece or titles to white eyebrow makes one wonder about the true motivations behind the postings here on this board and others.

Pay-per-view kung fu will never be commercially competitive.

Turiyan gold, Brahmin caste, Ordos clan

The REAL taichi:
http://www.wfdesign.com/tc/
http://www.wustyle.com/108.html

Chinese military forum:
http://www.anyboard.net/plaboard/

[Dale Dugas]

Turiyan,

Yes, Robert Gary is an ex-Lacy student and yes, he has decided that being ripped off and lied to was enough for him to kow tow to GM Doo Wai and apologize for all the garbage he did. After Jim told Robert of the farce that he is perpetuating in the CMA community, Robert knew enough to leave Jim in the dust. Robert has done some stuff, we all know that in the BFP community.

You are a known lurker/troll/assanine prolific poster who likes to ally with known frauds and people who are not up to snuff when you get down to the small print. You have shown your true colors in that on this board you sound so mature and full of knowledge gleamed from your years of practice and on others you whine like a girl who skinned her knees.

Anyone who views your homepage must get enough laughs for years. I am hoping those photos on there are not you. If they are, you are one more shining example of how some little skinny runt with a 'puter can change his image while hiding behind some aura of reality. No wonder you ally with Lacy and others of his ilk. They say birds of a feather flock together.

You need to eat better and put on some weight and quit reading so much crap on the net and train your skills much more.

Lacy started all that BS about levels and each level being worth so much money. It's a bunch of foolishness that someone mentally challenged needed in order to feed his rather impotent ego.

The poopoo has hit the fan and people will now know Jim for what he truly is, nothing but a fraud and a scam artist.

You want to be included in this, Turiyan? You'll get left behind as well.

You have met you match, stickboy.

In Boston,
Dale Dugas

[billy_pilgrim]

Thank God for Dale...

I thought the same thing after visiting this guy's homepage...I wondered sometimes why I was the only one who replied to his inane posts, then I realized that the other members of this forum must check out his website, and, after they're through laughing, dismiss him offhand...

You can play the greed card all you want kid, but the facts of the matter are that GM Doo Wai has been in this country over 30 years, in that time, he has done less than five magazine interviews. The various web sites that sell BFP info are done by students of his, not him personally. He is hardly in the business of selling anything. Where is all this ppv kung fu of which you speak? I expect a little more practicality out of a "magic fighting" practicioner :D :D

What's REALLY funny is that despite your profile, homepage, and the fact that you offer to buy Lacy videos with no shame at all, you think your silly posts make others look foolish...

David Russ

[IronFist]

haha, one time a few years ago i emailed James Lacey about something, and in his reply he tried to sell me a tape of a meditation for $190! I was like, no thanks.

Also, on his tapes, he sometimes contradicts himself (breath percentages or something, i haven't seen them in a while)

He's up there with Ashida in terms of credibility.

Iron

[TheIronCheff]

Turiyan is one sick boy!

[kwandao]

What a bunch of nonsense ! Lacy's material is real, for God's sake, he learned it right from Wai.

[kwandao]

Furthermore, if someone (not neccessarily Lacy, maybe one of Wai's people?) has material of Wai saying this is "Lohon Kuen" and then he does the form and then breaks it down, it is "Lohon Kuen". Period....Lacy may be eccentric, but his material is legit, the BFP folks are a little jealous, thats all. Grow up and get over it, a kick is kick and a punch is a punch, besides a good boxer or grappler with a green belt in basket weaving would knock out one of these "whitekittens". Ok?

[Dale Dugas]

Okay KWANDAO,

You have to be kidding when you spout things like "his material is authentic and legit" WHo the #$%$ are you kidding? Lacy is an impotent old man who seems unable to walk correctly let alone perform forms(which he stole from someone). He then went to another member of the BFP hall of shame, one Vince Peppers who helped him start a rather long and unecessary fight with GM Doo Wai.

The bottom line is Lacy, a known White Supremist and publically acknowledged freak has been attacking and trying to defile the man who told him no.

Slink away Jimbo, as this post really has no teeth when you know its self written. Fool.

go get behind Turiyan if you need to be protected, but then your a racist and Turiyan is Mongol. Hmm, what will you tell him???

Enough of your inane postings jim. If you have any marbles in that little sac you carry around, you should put a board up on ironpalm.com and see what happens. Until then you are still a coward and a total armchair martial artist.

Disgusted in Boston,

Dale Dugas

[kwandao]

Now, now disgusted Dale.....Let's rationalize this a little instead of being a big baby with your character assassinations, the forms are real, the material, it's real.....stolen, borrowed or lent, who cares ! It's Wai's kung fu, HE taught Lacy, he gave Lacy his Title, get it son ? Lacy has his following, I don't write for him or defend him or anyone else for that matter, but I have seen the material produced by the BFP people and it is CRAP, complete garbage, Lacy's Lohon's or producing students, whatever they are, have put together some really good material. I don't belong to either one of these dysfunctional groups. Get your facts before you spout off.

[feldor]

Have you EVER practiced a martial art in your life? You care nothing of something stolen and then sold to someone else? You are missing the point.

The information is NOT Bak Fu Pai, it is very basic training information on other systems, nothing or serious use. Lacy presents it as something it is not. Have you ever PURCHASED anything from Lacy? He contradicts himself often on breathing percentages for meditations, this is VERY dangerous! He BAKES coconuts to fool people like you into buying things. He cares nothing about your health or welfare.

Besides, what self-respecting martial artist buys STOLEN material. Very Sad, Kwandao.

Respectfully,
Charles

P.S. In case you think of posting some insulting or angered reply, don't bother......Jim.,, I know the truth.

[Dale Dugas]

Kwandao,

Just so you know. That's my real name on the post and that's where I really live. I'm a big baby, but all you cowards and armchair masters never in your lives seem to be able to gather enough guts to put your REAL names down.

You are the trolls who seem to have nothing to offer but oh do you guys scream bloody murder when someone shows the others who you are in real life. A pathetic attempt to be masculine maybe?

I have Posted it before and I will Post it to you and any other 18 daoist palms clown who wants to believe they can back up your master.

I have made public challenges that were unanswered as Jim is a coward as are all his people. I challenged Jim and ANY or ALL of his supposed Lohons and absolutely not any of them answered the call for their supposed master. So I'm the Big baby? I think not your lowbrowed mucus sucking pond dweller. I think not.

If your not Jim Lacy then who are you? Where are you from and what have you studied? Until then, we know who you claim not to be.

Laughing at Kwandao's feeble attempt,

Dale Dugas

[kwandao]

No Charles, I am not Lacy and my backround is twenty six years in Korean and Japanese arts. I teach and am considered a well respected artist. But I do not have to defend myself, my integrity is not the issue. I have "purchased" Lacy's material and I have purchased and seen some his students stuff,too. It was exactly the same stuff that Wai did. I am not in love and going to bear Lacy's children, but Wai made him, like it or not a Grandmster, lets not split hair, If you don't like Lacy, don't deal with him. I have been in CMA for about five years: doing wing chun, no, not Lacy's white tiger wing chun that I have Wai doing on video :) So what he has a bad hip. San Soo Master Scanlon (just an example of the indominable human will, not a comparison) is in a wheelchair and I would not mess with him. I also respect your opinion of Lacy, but stolen material or not, the fact remains he is successful and maybe not a physical specimen but have you seen Wai do White Tiger Tiger Step or Core Form-Six Shadow Fist, it is a blur.I have all the respect for GM Wai, but GM Lacy is a force to be reckoned with. Wai's student do not produce or contribute back into the system, their tapes are stinky and silly. But I respect them as fellow martial artists. Why does Lacy always gives credit to Wai, but Wai bashes Lacy. Furthermore, do not insult me, it only frustrates you, not me, I think your outbursts are the acts of immaturity, defeat and desperation and if you are a martial artist you know anger is unproductive, civil rational communication is mature and conducive to all parties. The White Tiger Web Site is amusing, if they spent as much time cultivating and nurturing their system instead of worrying about Lacy and his Lohons they would not have time and energy to feed into this. Sorry, but as a martial artist, it really demeans the whole BFP system when outsiders see this petty BS. Outproduce Lacy, make better superior material, not one tape-18 Daoist Palms Fist Form, do ten or twenty, you're BFP, remember, you brag about your martial prowess as a system,well, get out there and get out positive messages about BFP. What you throw in the universe comes back. And that's me talkin', not Lacy. Put that in your pipe.....

[kwandao]

You are a very angry young man....taking potshots at me has not gotten you any closer to self enlightenment. You and your challenges, challenges to what ? You are losing it and it shows, If Lacy is your target, go ask to see him or one of his Lohons, I am sure that they can "address" your anger management problem. You won't if you are smart. Better yet, you had better stay in your town, you are a menace and a liability to your Sifu and your Kwoon, tough guy. That is why I would not post my name and address, because quite frankly you seem like a mentally unstable person and I would not like to face criminal or civil action for having to deal with a "visit" from you. Does your Sifu know you resort to threatening people ? Does or would he condone that behavior ? Witness everyone ! BFP's "prize thug" I think not....Grow up, you are a punk. Really, get it together. You don't know who are potentially up against.

[Dale Dugas]

Kwandao or whoever you claim to be,

You wouldnt happen to be the belly man himself, Vince Peppers, the man who used to call himself "the Professor" before he realized that you had to have a PhD after your name to use that title.

No? Well you certainly seem to warrant some of my attention as you cannot seem to get my posts correct. I was the one banging on Jim Lacy. Charles was just being helpful. But then you claim to be an intellgent human being fell on some deaf ears.

You are a liar, Kwandao, as Lacy's students nor Jim himself look anything like other trained martial artists. Jim and his "students" look more like birds than people flaying around doing some *******ized Kempo slop fu which Jim received from the founder himself during some trance state his wife did on him with all those crystals.


All those years in Japanese/Korean systems and you know what you are looking at when you view some kung fu tapes? I think not. You are in no position to be trying to do that.

You could do it for the style you know. But how in the hell are you going to be able to compare GM Doo Wai with Jim? You are either Jim or Vince or some other pathetic loser who seems to thrive on posting for the good of noone.

What does Kung Fu San Soo have to do with this?
I have respect for Master Scanlon, but then Kung Fu San Soo has its own scandals it needs to handle. Leave them out of this.

Lacy is a force to be reckoned with? Again, you're blowing hot air at this board. Other BFP people have tapes that are stinky? You need a lesson in using certain adjectives in the correct context, Kwandao.

You can throw that rathery endearing track about throwing things into the universe and it coming back at you. You have helped a thief and conman by buying those tapes from him. Yoou too should be leery of what the universe might throw back your way as well.

No real name posts have to stop. Time to step up and show who is a man from all the boys we see everyday.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas


Jim has been shown to

[Dale Dugas]

Kwandao,

Not only are you misreading my posts I really would like to ask you why you havent included an email address with your personal information? Oh it slipped your mind, or you dont seem to have the honest to god guts to post with your real name nor your real information. It shows your COWARDICE to all of us.

All you trolls seem to think its a walk in the park as you dont have to supply that part of your vital information to sign up for most boards on the www.

To anyone who seems to like to sit back and watch me heat up then go ahead. I have no problem with anger. Kwandao misreads my intensity for anger. The only thing that angered me is reading where you compare GM Doo Wai with that pathetic Lacy. Its not really anger though you might call it an intense dislike for friends and family to be abused by some nimrod who liked his mom way too much and never trained for real in anything other than make it up 3rd generational kempo slap fu.

You getting this Kwandao, or are you still looking up some of the previous words in a dictionary? I thought so.

You wont get me mad, though you will be uspet as you cannot gauge my true feelings. Sorry.

I challenged Jim to cross hands, not a fight to the death though many on my side would call it that. I wrote to his shifu lohons who have sites and hadnt heard a single thing from them as well.

****, these people are all talk as you are. Im willing to go ANYWHERE and fight ANYONE or perform forms against ANYONE. I to this day in time have yet to receive a single answer back from Jim or his "students" It speaks volumes. Go read into this all you want, you still are an unknown toadie licking the dew off Jim's Jade Tower.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas

[kwandao]

Dale, you need to learn how to write. Taking everything personally is just the reason "no name" posts are done. To protect you from getting into trouble with your **** poor attitude, bad temper, and protect those who have loved ones and assests to protect from psychos like you, go look for trouble and you'll end up like Jim, in a cell, tough guy. This is not ancient China and your threats of violence are disrespectful to your Kwoon and might just get you more than you bargained for. Show your Sifu your responses, he'd love your chest thumping, violence and a big mouth, thats all you have. Lacy's Lohons and dedicated students have taken the art to another level, they are trying to legitimize and make it into something and deserve credit. They are out there producing quality material, other than threats, what have you done to contribute ? I must have touched a nerve, you seem upset, this is not personal, it is factual and you do not know all of the facts, maybe I don't either, but I don't "call out" people because they disagree with me. Or turn everything into an insult.

[tnwingtsun]

I saw a Bizz. card in a witchcraft shop,it was a guy on Signal Mt.(next to Chattanooga) that teaches tennis and claims to be one of Lacy's Lohons,I lost the card,just what we need,more kung-fu wanna-be friut loops.

[Dale Dugas]

Kwandao,

When did I ever say it would get violent? You seem to run at the mouth when you go off on your tangents that Lacy and his lohons are making strides. They are not. It has been the saddest day in CMA history when they ever printed the first word from Jim Lacy and his supposed 18 Daoist Palms system. He and his "students" are spreading more than their share of lies and misinformation.

I think you better look at the material you claim to have in your possession. Its does not exist.

Go look for it and see what you find. Nothing. At least we have a real master who treats people and asks for very little in return. The reason Jim and his "lohons" are doing okay is they are willing to sell anything at any cost. Take a look at Lee Spatz who is still claiming to be a white tiger nerve hitting expert. Stinks of pure swindle to me.

Jim shouldnt be giving out those formulae as some of the herbs can kill you at rather minute quantities. What am I talking about here, Kwandao?

Im halfway through my masters in Acupuncture and Oriental medicine. How about you and your years of Karate and Korean arts. Why is it that there are so many like you who can train the violent side and totally ignore the other side of martial arts, the healing arts which compliment it and then contribute to one's power in the fighting arts. But then you have been deluded by your fantasies of granduer of being a martial art master and not a master of martial arts. There is a BIG difference.

I was taught that if you have no skills at healing than you suck at your Gung Fu, no matter what.

I am not spouting anything violent. You are a coward and try and paint a picture of me that has no basis. I am not making this personal, you are and you keep ribbing me like I'm going to crack or something. No chance, Jimbo's clown, as my training helps me to get over that kind of stress. It's business to rid the world of the fakes and frauds that seem to haunt most walks of life in this great nation of ours. Call me the new martial arts "Randi" who wants to see more people put their money where their mouth is, and you Kwandao, no name fool, are tops on that list to show me and my friends involved what you can or in your case, what you obviously cannot do.

Im not out here being the strongarm for anyone but myself. I have been censored before, but that is due to old tradiations. I dont care if I **** my teachers off this time. Jim always said to put up or shut up. So are you mature enough for that. Or are you another one to go hide behind the apron????

This is a public forum and I have no problems letting all know what is going on with this. Obviously you cannot deal with that. And you skirt around the issues I keep presenting to you.

Stop circumlocuting and get to your point, oh I forgot, you never had one in the first place. You are just out to stroke the Lacy/18 Daoist Palms ego.

For the last few months I have been busy emailing and writing all the people that are listed with addresses. It's a great scam when the people who are supposed to be the backbone of the system are not available to anyone other than Jim. So where are all you people that are supposed to come get me for sicking on your Jung Shee?????

Kwandao, you seem to be getting angry at me for trying to settle this the OLD SCHOOL way. I repeat for the record that I challenge You, Jim, and ANY or ALL of the lohons to a contest of their choice. It can be breaking(no baking allowed) and or forms being performed. Or it can be where the men strive to compete, in the ring with any and all of you.

Putting your name up and an email address is all I ask. No one is going to come get. You cannot seem to rid yourself of that idea.

I'm still here waiting to hear from someone in the 18 Daoist Palms system to answer to the direct and public challenge to their lies and falsehoods,

Dale Dugas :D

[billy_pilgrim]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Outproduce Lacy, make better superior material, not one tape-18 Daoist Palms Fist Form, do ten or twenty
[/quote]

From Lacy's site:
"Whenever our competitors actually put their two-person forms into a product priced as good as Panther, we will absorb their tidbits back into the 18 Daoist Palms System. If they let their stuff out we will absorb and still dominate the market on five elder information."

Hmm...I think not, but nice try.

[kwandao]

Can't you write without insulting anyone, Doctor?
I think that you are a dangerous flake, First you want to fight everyone with your "challenges", now you'll challenge everyone to a forms competition. UH, here's a challenge....write just once without blowing up or lashing out like a child. Can you ? Mr Pilgrim, who I respect for voicing his opinion without having to resort to bashing everyone and issuing challenges to "cross hands". Sorry, Mr Pilgrim, I apologize for dragging you into this. You see, Dale, that is what it is all about, humility, which you do not have. Only rudeness. You still have not said what you study, maybe you have a TCM cure for your split personality. Being anonymous is not cowardly, you are irrational and that spells danger. If I spouted like you, my Sifu would break his foot off in my rear. Can you respond without threats, Doctor ? And what does Lee Spatz have to do with anything ? I do not know him or have I seen his material, I have seen his site,
but thats all, I can't comment on him, but you can Doctor? That the difference, you just hate anyone who thinks differently than you and voices their opinion. You and your little cult had better realize that this is America and creeps like you are hatemongers. By this time next year, lets see where you are at, it is a marathon, not a sprint, Doctor Mouth. Have a good night, Dale.

[billy_pilgrim]

Please don't respect me, cause I respect Dale. I do not know who you are, and won't bother guessing, but NO ONE I've ever met would actually say that they think Lacy and/or his students have ANYTHING of value to offer the world other than someone directly affiliated with the man with a financial stake in the matter.
What you call paying homage is actually shameless name dropping...Where would Jim be if he did not drop GM Doo's name at every opportunity? Where would he be if he had to stand on his own two legs, his crippled hip would give way and he would be writhing on the ground, that's where.
Lacy and GM Doo NEVER had a student/teacher relationship. Lacy has admitted this. Lacy's knowledge comes from demo tapes that he stole. I have asked the question before and it begs repeating, If Lacy was a student of GM Doo for 10 years (as he claims) then where did all the Kempo come from????

[feldor]

Kwandao, It is obvious that you have somewhat of an inferiority complex. You seem to circumvent and ignore relevent points by both Dale and Billy Pilgram.

The fact is, buying stolen material is wrong. Prentending to teach something you don't know is wrong. Dale and Billy make very good points, but you ignore them to spout off gibberish.

By the way, WHAT Korean and Japanese styles have you had FORMAL training in, specifically. You seem to let us know at every opportunity, please share.

You say you have what, 30 years experience in the arts, but seem to have a surpisingly narrow view, when speaking of Lacy. Even 2 year students of other styles can tell that Lacy is bogus. Why do you insist on defending him? Who were your teachers? Did they teach you nothing of ethics, honor, or common sense? It seems the only thing they taught you might be technique.

Please share your answers as we anxiously await your wisdom.

Sincerely,
Charles

[Dale Dugas]

Kwandao,

There is no real self enlightenment when you are training to take someones face off with a tiger claw. You spout things that have no real foundation in the conversations we attempt to have via this board. You seem to float between trying to think and trying to speak while you attempt to write intelligent conversation. Focusing would help allviate that problem.

"Im a dangerous flake" is a good one coming from someone who is "challenging" me to write something that is not childish. The readers know who has been acting childish. I don't lash out nor do I bash anyone who does not deserve a good bash. I also accept being bashed in the process. I don't shirk away from any confrontations, verbal or physical. That does not make me a flak, Kwandao. Just OLD SCHOOL.

Things in this nation have degraded to a point that if one does not conform to some form of political correctedness then you are labeled subversive and violent. Why? Because I won't sit back and not attempt to defend an art and the man who singlehandedly brought it to this nation?

No. I will not let this happen. It is that simple. Too many people can say what they want about their system. I am proud to be a supporter of Bak Fu Pai and Jung Shee Doo Wai. I do not recognize Jim Lacy for anything other than what he is. A fool and a liar.

I have no split personality, though you are showing sure signs of it in your postings here on this board. I can spout all I want, as you yourself can do as well. If someone wants to punish me that then I deserve everything I get from my shifu. But I will still sit up and yell while there are people like you who sit back and go on with the foolishness you have been doing.

You are something of an enigma, Kwandao. I'm no doctor and being halfway through a masters doesn't make you anything other than another grad student trying to complete his degree. A person who uses the term Doctor usally has a PhD or MD, or DMD, or DDS, DVM after their name. So please do not confuse the readers by claiming I said I was a doctor. That never happened.

I just have a little more experience using Chinese medicine than the next person. That's all.

I do not hate anyone other than fools who cannot stand up and take responsibility for their actions. I seem to be able to do that along with many others. You seem not able to do this. I agree to disagree with anyone and anything. Nothing wrong in that. Respect us to be earned and I have earned it from the people who give it to me as they have earned my respect for them from me directly.

I am not a hatemonger. I attended Earlham College from 1985-1989. It is a Quaker School in Richmond, Indiana. Not many hatemongers would go to such a school. You do know what Quakerism is about, don't you?

I have studied Uechi-Ryu Karate under Jack Summers here in the Boston area when I was a teenager. I then trained in Hung ga kung fu and then went to college where I trained with my roomie and we had fun beating the snot out of each other while we studied Japanese. I graduated in 1989 and immediately moved to Japan where I would train in Aikido, Judo and Karate while working for the local Board of Education.

I returned to the US to pursue my masters degree in Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine. I had to quit that to take care of my father who had been injured on the job and had a brain injury. I am finally reapplying to finish my degree as you read this.

I doubt most people would now classify me as a dangerous risk as you so state in your last post.

I am not a member of any cult, not am I a member of organized religion in any way, shape or form.
I will be in school next year and hopefully will be finished in a half year more after that.

You will be somewhere as well, doing whatever it is you do.

Again, Jim started this with this "Put up or Shut Up". I want to see him and you and the other people who claim to be his people to come out and show us what you can or cannot do.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas

[Bastet]

just had a look at your website... its a shocker.

i think you need to go do a little more research - maybe understand what you are writing instead of just trying to duplicate things you have heard or read... you have confused some of you terms and its really not coherent. i only bothered reading half of the front page - i can only take so much bs in a day. your not doing much for your credibility are you? gee, pro-lacy seems like a good move :D

keep up the good fight guys (charles, dale & billy). im not going to get any further into this because its not my place & i dont want to cause trouble... just letting you know that i think youre doing a good thing.

blessed be,
a.

[Dale Dugas]

Bastet,

Thanks for the kind words. Its good to know that there are some people who are not fooled by the amount of words someone can use to mislead and conjole you into thinking about something.

I really dont expect to hear back from the stick himself. Though keep looking, you never know when the troll will show up again.

Drop a line when the urge hits. Would love to hear more about your style and training.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas

[sui-fuw]

feltup you must really hate jim lacy,what did he play with you in the locker room or something?

[feldor]

Wow! You're a funny guy! Ever thought of stand-up work?

Seriously, if you had read the previous messages you would understand. Lacy has a long history of being a con man and a thief. Unfortunately, I have personally dealt with him. We're just rying to make sure others don't make the same mistake. I take the arts seriously and DO have ethics, unlike Lacy.

On the other hand, if you did read and are just being a smart a**, go play somewhere else. Please. :D

[Fubokuen]

sui few aren't you Chinese living in HK? Well then, it is obvious to you that Lacy is another western kempo parasite trying to make a buck of CMA through deceit and treachery. Seems like you'd be anti-Lacy or not at all...

Kwandao, aside from happenstantially choosing the famous weapon of Vince Pepper's self proclaimed namesake, claims 10yrs JMA and 3(!) in CMA in his profile, then it becomes 26yrs and 5 in CMA when pressed. (Although it is ridiculous to pay any attention to the pointless and insolent opinions of a 3yr CMA newbie and no one is going to leave 26yrs in JMA and KMA for Jim Lacy tapes(hahaha). I'm just saying some folks express opinions and at the same time show they have no respect for what is true and resort to what is NOT rather quickly...

I submit that, after hearing from the Bak Fu Pai that Lacy is Officially nothing but a CONMAN and SCAMMER, peeps remain on his side, or ambivolent to the situation because they R-1-2...

Kudos to Charles for doing the right thing as soon as he found out the truth!

[feldor]

Thank you, just doing the right thing. Others don't seem to know what the right thing is though.....

Charles :confused:

[IronFist]

Fubokuen, are you "Fubo" from a few years ago? We exchanged a few emails talking smack about Lacy :P My email address was different then, and I think my old screen name here was, too.

Iron

[northstar]

http://www.parkenzoo.se/svensk/galleri/jpgs/tige12.jpg
I too believe in exposing frauds, bouncing up to the top :D

[sui-fuw]

excuse me but most m.a's are cons what makes you so different?do you teach for free?

[billy_pilgrim]

If so, please post the address of your school, I'd love to learn. Isn't it nice being anonymous?

If you say accepting payment for teaching makes one a con, well, then, so be it, I don't agree, but you're entitled to your opinions however misguided they may be.
But equating anyone with Lacy by virtue of this, is just down right silly...Go back and read over the other posts to get a clearer picture of who this guy is (and what he isn't) before lumping everyone in the same boat with him.
An educated perspective will save you a lot of face in the future, but as long as you remain in the shadows, I guess that's not something you'll have to worry about.

David Russ

[Dale Dugas]

You think that all people invloved are cons? Where the hell did you get that idea? Thats a really good thing to be spouting off about ona martial arts site.

Get real, Sui Fuw. Not all people are out to get anothers money or fame or any of the other trappings in life that can make you do some stupid crap. Some people actually train for other reasons.

Nothing wrong with having a school and trying to make a living. Though there is something wrong with trying to lie about your system and material and then fleece people for crap that is not what it was told to be. That's what is going on here with all this.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas

[feldor]

Siu Few,

You are either Lacy, a follower trying to create decention, or a child. That is a VERY weak arguement. What's the mattter, all of the mounting proof too much to deny? :rolleyes:

Billy, Dale, and others, Thanks for the support!

Sincerely,
Charles
Bak Fu Pai

[sui-fuw]

sorry guys just my opinion.dale my respects.
i'm a mere student and not a teacher,but,yes i get taught for free[my apologies].
lacy a con,like i said most ma's are[most not all]

feldor still got a hard on for lacy?
lord billy,equate with lacy?come on.save face?i am a nobody.[why should i make that difference to you]grow some hair.

[billy_pilgrim]

Well, I'm sure I speak for all the vets on the forum when I say, it's good to have one half of the Hakka twins back, but where's your boy Cloud1? Shouldn't he be coming on any minute, making bad attempts at wit with broken english?

Don't get me wrong, you don't make any difference to me, it was just some friendly advice. I'll give that hair thing a shot, what exactly are you being "taught" again???

Take Care.

[Dale Dugas]

Sui Fuw,

You still saying that most MA teachers are conmen. I dont agree with you and if your training for free it cannot be all that good. I know of almost no teacher who could afford to do that other than a cult.

No offence as your posts suggests that something is rotten in your training hall. Would love to hear more about where you train.

I pay my sifu 150 per month for twice a week classes. I feel that this is nothing compared to the material he is teaching me to use alongside my kung fu brothers.

What are you trying to say?

Spit it out , man!

Dale

[feldor]

Not a hard on, just the determination needed to rid us of one more of the "con's" you yourself speak of. The martial arts should not have a reputation for having "most" as con men.

Again, nothing personal toward you, but I will defend my actions as I and many others feel we are doing the right thing. Think about how you would feel if you had been ripped off by Lacy. I don't want others to wind up in the same position when it only takes a few minutes a day to spread the word.

Peace.
Charles
Bak Fu Pai
:)

[cerebus]

Sounds like Dingleberry Pugas is a jealous hate filled fat fook. I believe there was another punk on a forum like Dinglebery Pukass and he went to prison I believe for stalking. He used his real name on the net.

Wow, how old are you? 5, maybe 6 years old? That's what you're sounding like. As for Lacy, his prison record and other questionable activities have been well-known in the martial arts world for many, many years...

And it's actually kind of funny to see someone talking such smack to Dale from the safety of an internet connection when there's no way they'd ever do that in person. Dale's a nice guy, but he could flatten most folks with a single palm strike.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Troll posted deleted and thread locked ( it is after all pretty old).