Check this out...

[Serpent]

From the Shaolin forum:

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=14446

[HuangKaiVun]

Pray tell, serpent, what is the point of this post?

What's wrong? Have nothing to offer?

[Serpent]

I just wondered if anyone might have an opinion on it. It struck me as a dubious post so I thought I'd share it in the main forum where there's more traffic.

Of course, I didn't expect anyone to post if they had nothing to actually say, but I forgot about you, Huang.

[HuangKaiVun]

In short, you didn't have the guts to come out and say that this was a "dubious" post until I drew you out.

As I said many times, you must be a really great martial artist. Everybody just SUCKS in your view.

You must have a lot to teach, Serpent. Enlighten us with your kung fu knowledge.

[Serpent]

I didn't have the guts? No, I just wanted to see what people thought without colouring their opinion with my own thoughts. I was interested in what other people thought as I'm prepared to learn rather than be blinded by misconceptions of my own superiority.

There's a lesson in that for you, little man.

[HuangKaiVun]

Then teach me MORE.

Why do you think these guys are so terrible, and what do you feel they should do to be better?

[Serpent]

All right Huang, I'll humour you.

This is the part of the post that made me most suspiscious and I simply posted it in the main forum to see if anyone could back-up or refute the claims and ideas from a perspective of experience.



Now I can crack a coconut with one strike of my palm or break the bottom brick from a stack of three. Or in a life and death position even kill with one touch of the palm. Shane knows this to be fact.
John Ng has trained 26 different Ntional and international Champions. This should be proof enough that the style is real and alive today. If it isn't then your just an idiot.

[HuangKaiVun]

One touch of the palm - depends on what POINT you press with WHAT TECHNIQUE.

There are 36 killing points on the body known to Western medical science, and pressing these with one touch can inflict DEATH.

Coconut cracking - there are guys that can do that who don't study THIS style. And breaking the bottom of three bricks depends on what the bricks are made of.

I'm just as skeptical as you, Serpent, but on the other hand you've got guys who believe in this guy. I will reserve my judgment until I EXPERIENCE this for myself.

[Serpent]

Good for you.

Notice how when I posted the thread I simply directed people to the post and asked them to check it out. I have no first hand experience of these people and wondered what other people might have to say. You jumped right on it and immediately attacked me because you have a problem with me. In less than ten posts you've offered nothing constructive and only backed up my original point with far more words than necessary.

Are you learning yet?

[HuangKaiVun]

Actually, you haven't offered anything constructive yourself while I HAVE.

That you think these guys are beneath you as martial artists - I knew that already. And I knew that you didn't have any grounds whatsoever on these guys other than that they are "dubious", which is why I answered your post.

I'll tell you what I learned from this: I've learned to NEVER TRUST a guy like you. I've also learned that your beliefs of what's "dubious" do not have solid grounds in real kung fu, likely because you have none yourself. That's why you scratch for other people's opinions before offering your own.

You won't heed this advice, but I'd suggest actually PRACTICING kung fu. Your views on things will change for the better.

[Serpent]

It amuses me that you're so convinced that I don't practice kung fu. What makes you so sure of that? You're so convinced that you know everything, so proud of your superiority.

Making sweeping generalisations and personal attacks on someone over the internet, based on absolutely no evidence just makes you look even more arrogant than you manage with your other opinions.

I know you're a wanker. I can tell from the things you say. There is nothing in what I say on the internet that could prove to you that I don't practice kung fu. Or that I do for that matter.

And we were getting on so well....

[HuangKaiVun]

A serpent always strikes.

Both you and I knew that.

You started this whole post to flame people. Did you really think nobody would NOTICE? Did you really think you'd light the world on fire by showing how bad these people were?

I let your butt off in my post about the 36 points, didn't flame you once, took the time to educate you about kung fu you didn't know about. Of course, your way is to interpret that as WEAKNESS and then flame me. I KNEW you would too.

Indeed, you capture the elemental nature of this animal PERFECTLY. You're probably even proud of it.

So keep up your flaming ways. Don't stop hating on kung fu men like the one in this post, and continue to spew hatred into the environment. It's your nature, live up to your potential.

The serpent that hunts prey eventually becomes food itself. And Chinese guys like me enjoy eating snake.

[Serpent]

You wanna eat me, you'll have to pay like everybody else.

You hang on to your superiority, little man, it'll serve you well. Really.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by HuangKaiVun
A serpent always strikes.

Both you and I knew that.


Who struck?



You started this whole post to flame people.


Incorrect assumption.



Did you really think nobody would NOTICE? Did you really think you'd light the world on fire by showing how bad these people were?


Arrogance.



I let your butt off in my post about the 36 points, didn't flame you once, took the time to educate you about kung fu you didn't know about.


Incorrect assumption and arrogance.




Of course, your way is to interpret that as WEAKNESS and then flame me. I KNEW you would too.


Superiority.



Indeed, you capture the elemental nature of this animal PERFECTLY. You're probably even proud of it.


Superiority again.



So keep up your flaming ways. Don't stop hating on kung fu men like the one in this post, and continue to spew hatred into the environment. It's your nature, live up to your potential.


Incorrect assumption, arrogance AND superiority!



The serpent that hunts prey eventually becomes food itself. And Chinese guys like me enjoy eating snake.

And you finish with a threat.

[FRANK SEXTON]

Doubt is the key to wisdom. If you doubt then therefore you seek more wisdom of that that you have doubted.

You all are wise as there are 36 points in western science but in eastern there are 52 that I have studied in the Ng Family Style. But in the world of martial arts and science there are more that have not been studied or looked at.
Let us not fight among ourselfves. But come together and learn from one another. Knowledge is the key to success and the road to enlightenment.
As for proof of the statments I would usally say research before you speak. And then I would not offer a starting point to see if you intend to find truth of just be heard for attention because you are sad and lonely.

Rusty Gray 5 time heavyweight full contact kung fu champion.
John Dufresne Multiple national and international champion in the 1980's he went to China and won the China Cup which is unheard of for an american to beat the chinese for the China cup.
Gary Stearns multiple champion for several years now making movies, has been in Walker Texas Ranger, Martial Law, Mortal Combat the series and now is in Matrix 2. He received a brand new Harley Davidson from K. Reeves for the fight scenes in the Matrix 2.

Dr. Yang Jing Ming and Master Chan Poi can verify our style because they know my teacher personally and have given seminars with him.
Eric Lee knows my teacher very well to along with Don the Dragon Wilson.

This is a bases the rest is up to you.
My teacher told me not to put anymore out there because if one wants something then that one must travel the path alone to find what he seeks.


Humblly your friend and brother in the arts Frank

[Daniel]

Hello all,

Ng Family Kung Fu is the most awsome and effective system I have seen.

This is my opinion and others may feel differently, there is nothing wrong with that.

My only suggestion is to find what is best for you, train diligently in that method and do so while promoting the Chinese arts, not trying to tear one another down.

Hung Ga, Bak Mei, Chang Chuan, Ba Gua, all have thier own methods. This does not make any one better than another nor does it make any one right and one wrong in their methods of training.

Please reseach and experiance before you pass judgment.


Daniel Eckart

[FRANK SEXTON]

Wise words Daniel
I myself looked for many years before finding the system for me. I tried shaolin do, tkd, shotokan, issinryu, kempo, I even studied under Jerry Petet in JKD( a bruce lee original student). but until I met John Ng I could fill that hunger that I had. It is the person that must find what they want. And when you find what you want then you must set your goals and reach them.


A man whom doen't have any goals in his life is liken unto a balloon in the wind. He will be tossed here and there and will never know where he will finally end up at.


Frank Sexton 1993


Remember all that there is a difference between style and system.
A style is individual piece of a system and the system is the whole of it all.
Drunken, Monkey, Tiger, Crane etc... are all styles .
Ng Family, Shaolin, Kempo etc... these are systems.

[themeecer]

Originally posted by Serpent
It amuses me that you're so convinced that I don't practice kung fu. What makes you so sure of that? You're so convinced that you know everything, so proud of your superiority.

Making sweeping generalisations and personal attacks on someone over the internet, based on absolutely no evidence just makes you look even more arrogant than you manage with your other opinions.


Ha!! POT YOU'RE BLACK!!!!

[Serpent]

Wow, this was dredged up from the past. All I did was offer simething up for discussion, on a discussion forum, and all the haters come out! No surprise here, I guess.

Anyway, the guys themselves have come on and offered something to the discussion far more constructive than HKV or meecer.

Anybody else have experience of this system? Really, I'm just interested to learn more about it.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Serpent
It amuses me that you're so convinced that I don't practice kung fu. What makes you so sure of that? You're so convinced that you know everything, so proud of your superiority.

Making sweeping generalisations and personal attacks on someone over the internet, based on absolutely no evidence just makes you look even more arrogant than you manage with your other opinions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by themeecer
Ha!! POT YOU'RE BLACK!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, meecer, HKV has no grounds whatsoever to decide whether I do or don't practice kung fu. On the other hand, I know Shaolin-Do sucks arse. You started it! ;)

[themeecer]

Actually, meecer, HKV has no grounds whatsoever to decide whether I do or don't practice kung fu. On the other hand, I know Shaolin-Do sucks arse. You started it! ;) [/B]
Really? And how many SD students have you fought?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by themeecer

Really? And how many SD students have you fought? Do you really want to get all this started again? It's been pretty civil around here since you went into retirement.

[themeecer]

Yeah, civil when you are permitted to run your mouth dragging someone's style through the dirt with no opposition. But relax, I am making a point here. Both Serpent and Frank are making the same mistake on here.

It amazes me how much you all get your panties in a bunch over issues that shouldn't affect you. I could give a flying flip for which great gooblygock was your great great great great grandmaster. If you say you have a direct lineage to the temple, then I am happy for you. Really I am. And I don't doubt you. I know with having a 1500 year history that there can be countless groups with lineages going back to the temples. I really don't understand the need to bring others style down, that many of the people on here do. It is like the silly argument over which is better, a Chevy or a Ford. How does other people driving a Ford affect you when you are driving a Chevy? It doesn't. I'm not saying "we should all hug and be friends," because quite honestly there are a couple on here that I would kick their teeth in if I ever met them. I'm just saying to not get worked up about something that doesn't matter.

[norther practitioner]

there are a couple on here that I would kick their teeth in if I ever met them.

I can't wait for this to turn into a challenge.

[themeecer]

No challenge needed because there is no freakin way I am traveling halfway across the country or the world to appease my anger. If I am itching to fight I'll just go out here on the street and pick one.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by themeecer
Yeah, civil when you are permitted to run your mouth dragging someone's style through the dirt with no opposition. But relax, I am making a point here. Both Serpent and Frank are making the same mistake on here. Funny how you have nothing to contribute to any conversation that isn't SD-hate related, huh? Here's an idea....you want to be taken seriously as a martial artists...prove you know something about them by discussing techniques and theory in a competent manner.

[themeecer]

I have in other threads.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by themeecer
I have in other threads. Yeah. I remember hearing things like "Grappling is a fad," and "bite out the jugular"....

I said "competent" manner.....

[themeecer]

Check the internal threads.

[apoweyn]

Jesus Huang, who took a growl in your corn flakes?!

[The Willow Sword]

a nice trip down memory lane. Reading all that. whew. hehehe.

Peace,, TWS

[apoweyn]

I even studied under Jerry Petet in JKD( a bruce lee original student).

Not long enough to learn the poor sod's name, evidently. It's Poteet.

[themeecer]

Didn't Poteet have a cameo roll in Dragon: The Bruce Lee story?

[Serpent]

In the interests of peace in the forum, I'm not going to be drawn into this discussion any more. It was a nice trip down memory lane, though.

I wonder what ever happened to Huang?

[CaptinPickAxe]

wow...now thats the fire I like to see.

[Serpent]

Hey, PickAxe - you spelled constellation wrong, ya fvckwit!

;)

[CaptinPickAxe]

thats the name of the song, assgoblin

;)

oh, wait...your head is lost up your ass. So I guess I should of clarified first.

[David Jamieson]

I killed a whole family of sd-ers living under my sink just this morning.

stupid golden ****roach form couldn't handle a little spritz of raid.

:D

take that! huzzah!

[Serpent]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
thats the name of the song, assgoblin

;)

oh, wait...your head is lost up your ass. So I guess I should of clarified first.

Oh, so they can't spell then!

Assgoblin <--- heh.

:)

[CaptinPickAxe]

Rappers aren't exactly Harvard grads.



Assgoblin is a classic.
but then again so is Clam-Slapper and Bever Squeezer.:D

[CaptinPickAxe]

BTW,

no offense on the head-up-your-ass thing...

sarcasm is kinda hard to catch on to on the internet.

[Serpent]

S'cool. I treat everything as sarcasm - easier that way.

Unless it's themeecer or Huang Kai Vun of course, cos those guys are total assgoblins.

:)

[Kymus]

Originally posted by Serpent
S'cool. I treat everything as sarcasm - easier that way.

Unless it's themeecer or Huang Kai Vun of course, cos those guys are total assgoblins.

:)

ooh ooh! Can I be an assmonkey? :D

[David Jamieson]

no, we only have the goblin positions left.

you have to be an @ssgoblin.

it's that or nothing.

well, there is one other, but this thread will get deleted if I mention it.

[themeecer]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
I killed a whole family of sd-ers living under my sink just this morning.

stupid golden ****roach form couldn't handle a little spritz of raid.

Hehe. If I ever learn that form the fight is on.

[David Jamieson]

Hey just for fun, let's have a religious argument and somehow tie SD into it along with the mel gibson blood fest film.

serpent, because you most closely represent the personification of an androgynous satan, you get to start:

go!

:D

[themeecer]

:rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

I can't believe you didn't bite at that!

good for you buddy :D

actually I always enjoyed the passionate discourse you would dump on your detractors. yes i'm talking to you themeecer.

you haven't been around in a while with the rest of your group and only judge pen has been left here to hold down the fort.

shame on you all for leaving your kungfu karate brother here all alone like that. :D

[Volcano Admim]

was Jesus peepee circusized?

[themeecer]

Well thank you ... but I am getting a lot more done around here now that I avoid the boards. Lot more time spent training, in fact. No fort to be held down .. we just picked up our sticks and built it elsewhere. :D

Nothing to discuss about Gibson's movie .. it was absolutely awesome. Very very graphic. To me it was the most graphic movie I had ever seen and the most beautiful one at the same time. I'm not an emotional person but I was in tears several times during this movie. Although others on this board don't believe in this, the reason I was so emotional was that I knew it was my fault that he went through all of that.

[themeecer]

Originally posted by Volcano Admim
was Jesus peepee circusized?
I believe so ... it was a jewish custom.

[Volcano Admim]

cool

can god create a rock so heavy that he cant lift it?

if everything is relative and everything is a form of absolute, then does ablosute equal relative?

[Volcano Admim]

if the tao is the one that cannot be spoken of why the fock am i talkinb about it?

[David Jamieson]

I preferred zefferellis Jesus of Nazareth, that was a beautiful film.

I found that Mels film was to much blood, confusing to the layman with all the latin and in poor taste to use italian pornography stars as lead characters. BUt maybe he was trying for a real life Mary Magdalene connection, I dunno.

Lethal weapon, the cross and the christ would'v been more apropo i guess, and of course you cried, he was directly targeting your emotion bone ya big silly.

just like disney does with fish and lions and lost babies.

anyway...

I'm sure mel is enjoying the hell out of all that money he's getting for his film. The time is right to release that kind of thing after all, how can he lose?

[Volcano Admim]

was Rocco in the movie?

[themeecer]

Hehe ya big ****. The reason I cried is because I have heard since birth that Jesus died for my sins. I hear it every week at church. I have become so deadened to it that I took for granted what that meant. The simple phrase "Jesus was scourged.." is lost on modern listeners. I NOW know what that means. If I wasn't so emotional about the events happening, had this been a movie about some normal joe, I would have been saying 'cool' the whole movie. Here is an interesting article that addresses the so called over the top violence in this movie. One line I like from this site is : Isaiah 52:14 as the prophet describes the scene: “Just as there were many who were appalled at him — His appearance was disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human likeness … .”

I liked Jesus of Nazareth as well.

Edit: They censored d ork?!?!?!

[David Jamieson]

no, rocco couldn't make the list.

but pretty much all the lead women were italian pornography stars.

cool eh?

betcha johhny middle american christian didn't know that, and likely most of em still don't. I mean, that's not something you play up in a film of this magnitude.

heh heh, that would totally crucify mel in the trade mags. all the better tell alls are saying it though. :D

why, it's practically at the level of conspiracy!

uh, xebs, i have to ask why you would be interested in a male pornstar :confused: LOL

[Volcano Admim]

i dont know what you talkinb about man, i aint interested in Rocco...


cos Nacho Vidal is really my hero
this dude first time sex was when he was a kid as his sisters did him.
he digs boxing and bjj and has banged some awesome chicks

[David Jamieson]

You can remember what you heard at birth?

that's freaky man!

some kinda conspiracy there involving shadowy intelligent christaimn babies who are members if teh SD organization!

poised to take over kentucky and thereby seal the fate of the american mullet forever.

did you know that it was St.Ignatious, the founder of the Jesuit order who said : "Give me the boy and I will give you the man"

that's freaky too, but it sure explains a lot of things.

YOu really should ask for your money back TM. If you didn't understand the Christ until you saw that movie, then that is a little curious don't you think? i mean talk about conspiracy!

muwhahahahaha, etc etc etc
sincerely
another jaded secular humanist

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
Hey just for fun, let's have a religious argument and somehow tie SD into it along with the mel gibson blood fest film.

serpent, because you most closely represent the personification of an androgynous satan, you get to start:

go!

:D

Dayum, this thread ran away while I was out.

Haven't seen the passion, but kinda figure I don't need to. KL and themeecer's reactions to it explain things perfectly. Ignorant, blinkered fools will blindly sob with their ignorant souls in torment* and cynics will only see the Gibson $.

'bout right.

*the same type of person that would be sucked in by S-D, by the by.

[Serpent]

How was that, KL? Just starting slowly....

[Kymus]

Temple Kung Fu (http://www.templekungfu.com/home.htm) deffinatly screams fake. And then there's that crazy guy at martialart.org ... I think that guy is loopier than he||. If you wanna talk about being a brainless moron, well, you can start there. :D

[Mediocrity]

SD Take over KY?

Not while us Wah Lum guys are still around here :P

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by themeecer
Didn't Poteet have a cameo roll in Dragon: The Bruce Lee story?

Yep. He was in the background when Bruce Lee fought Wong Jak Man at the Ed Parker tournament. Poteet trained Jason Scott Lee for the role.

[David Jamieson]

He was in the background when Bruce Lee fought Wong Jak Man at the Ed Parker tournament

???

Bruce Lee fought Wong Jack Man at an Ed Parker tournament???

I thought their fight was behind closed doors.

Did I miss something in the kungfu gossip columns? Usually I like to stay abreast of these things. and speaking of breasts, how about that Janet Jackson eh? Boy howdee!

:D

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Kung Lek


???

Bruce Lee fought Wong Jack Man at an Ed Parker tournament???

I thought their fight was behind closed doors.

Did I miss something in the kungfu gossip columns? Usually I like to stay abreast of these things. and speaking of breasts, how about that Janet Jackson eh? Boy howdee!

:D In the movie, he fights WJM twice...once in closed doors, when WJM breaks his back by kicking him when he's not looking, and then at a seminar, where Bruce makes WJM retarded.

I wouldn't say that movie was very factual.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
I can't believe you didn't bite at that!

good for you buddy :D

actually I always enjoyed the passionate discourse you would dump on your detractors. yes i'm talking to you themeecer.

you haven't been around in a while with the rest of your group and only judge pen has been left here to hold down the fort.

shame on you all for leaving your kungfu karate brother here all alone like that. :D

Nah, I like the peace and quiet when no one argues obout SD. Meece and I get along fine, we just have opposite approaches to the same issues!

In keeping this thread on topic with the Jesus and SD topics, a fort built on sand will not last, but he should build his fort on solid rock.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Serpent


Dayum, this thread ran away while I was out.

Haven't seen the passion, but kinda figure I don't need to. KL and themeecer's reactions to it explain things perfectly. Ignorant, blinkered fools will blindly sob with their ignorant souls in torment* and cynics will only see the Gibson $.

'bout right.

*the same type of person that would be sucked in by S-D, by the by.
I went to see the Passion with an agnostic friend and we were both moved. I thought it was a great movie and very moving. My friend, who doesn't believe in Jesus like I do was also moved by the imagery. Even if you don't believe it's nice to see what Christians believe Christ suffered for our redemption.

Pre-judging a movie you haven't sees is kind of like saying that SD s ucks when you have never met anyone that practices it. ;)

[MasterKiller]

Jesus built my hot rod.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Jesus built my hot rod.

yes but he pronounced his name Hey-zuess.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Jesus built my hot rod. Well, to be fair, while we haven't seen the SD Movie, we've seen plenty of SD trailers on the web. I've skipped plenty of movies based on what I've seen in the trailers....

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Kung Lek


???

Bruce Lee fought Wong Jack Man at an Ed Parker tournament???

I thought their fight was behind closed doors.

Did I miss something in the kungfu gossip columns? Usually I like to stay abreast of these things. and speaking of breasts, how about that Janet Jackson eh? Boy howdee!

:D

In reality, no they didn't. Their fight was behind closed doors. In the movie Dragon (in which Poteet makes a cameo), Lee fights Wong Jak Man once behind closed doors and then again at the Parker tournament.

Just part of their effort to collapse events in Lee's life into a movie. Much like Lee's back being injured in the fight with Wong Jak Man (which actually was the result of a weightlifting accident).


Stuart B.

EDIT: Masterkiller already covered it. Mea culpa.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Well, to be fair, while we haven't seen the SD Movie, we've seen plenty of SD trailers on the web. I've skipped plenty of movies based on what I've seen in the trailers....

True, but I've seen great movies with a horrible preview trailer and great preview trailers for horrible movies. You still have to judge for yourself.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by apoweyn
Just part of their effort to collapse events in Lee's life into a movie. Much like Lee's back being injured in the fight with Wong Jak Man (which actually was the result of a weightlifting accident).. More like an obvious effort by the Lee camp to distort the truth and perpetuate the Lee mythos.

[red5angel]

More like an obvious effort by the Lee camp to distort the truth and perpetuate the Lee mythos.

I agree, after doing my own research on the whole WJM vs BL thing, WJM's side of the story seems much more reasonable then Linda Lee's telling of the story.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
More like an obvious effort by the Lee camp to distort the truth and perpetuate the Lee mythos.

Meh. Perhaps. But seriously, the movie has demons in it for crying out loud. I think the liberties it takes, it does self consciously.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by apoweyn


Meh. Perhaps. But seriously, the movie has demons in it for crying out loud. I think the liberties it takes, it does self consciously. The whole movie is a liberty...

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
The whole movie is a liberty...

Okay. I'm not getting paid to represent the movie. And I have no great love of the Lee mythos. So opinion noted.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by apoweyn


Okay. I'm not getting paid to represent the movie. And I have no great love of the Lee mythos. So opinion noted. Note to self...Ap cannot be baited..Repeat, AP cannot be baited..find Kung Lek or Red5 immediately.....Must find argument to kill 4 more hours....

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Note to self...Ap cannot be baited..Repeat, AP cannot be baited..find Kung Lek or Red5 immediately.....Must find argument to kill 4 more hours....

Dem's fightin' words!!

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Judge Pen

I went to see the Passion with an agnostic friend and we were both moved. I thought it was a great movie and very moving. My friend, who doesn't believe in Jesus like I do was also moved by the imagery. Even if you don't believe it's nice to see what Christians believe Christ suffered for our redemption.

Pre-judging a movie you haven't sees is kind of like saying that SD s ucks when you have never met anyone that practices it. ;)

Heh. Glad someone notices that - I was feeling unappreciated. I know subtlety is often lost on people here though. ;)

[The Willow Sword]

"Official Hidden thread" on what we think of the movie Passion.

here is a review i sent to my father in an email.

"Well i went to go see this movie a few days ago and i have to say "What an appauling spectacle of cinemagraphic violence". Mel has really outdone himself with this one. SO now we have yet ANOTHER Movie about Jesus and even though the Aramaic and latin dialogue was interesting and educational it really did not, in my humble opinion, make the film any more or less authentic(for what is truly authentic in portraying jesus and the time he lived in?).

so this is what we have,,a movie based on the passion plays that were done back in the middle ages to scare the cr@p out of the uneducated peasants and rile up the "anti-everything but christian" following. if the people of the middle ages could see this movie do you think they would have had massive heart attacks as one woman did in the theatre during the beating and flailing scene? Maybe so.
Mel Gibson is Mentally disturbed in my opinion, i didnt really know that Mad Max was a hardcore catholic(or actually he is his own version of a catholic, i hear) but maybe i shouldnt be so hard on the guy. i seem to remember him being all gung ho and pro scottish militant during the "Braveheart" days. So maybe this is the new "Look" for him. Just like Madonna who changes nationalities and accents like i change my underwear(and i change my underwear alot).

I guess that you have to step back from the religious holier than thou aspect of anything having to do with Jesus and look at this movie from a perspective of "man martyred to the religious politial BS of the time". But i know that is a difficult way to see it for most as most are christian and they are going to see the torture and murder of one of the greatest healers and teachers of all time as justified and "for all of us".


note: i am not a christian but i do respect the concept of the christ figure which teaches love and unity. seems to me though that this movie doesnt really show that aspect of christ(which in my opinion is the most important aspect of the christ figure). but this is where the christians and i differ on the subject as they believed he sacrificed himself for all our sins. I think that he, like others in more recent history, was a martyr and scapegoat of the political religious regimes that seem to permeate and control our every move and will stop anyone who challenges the established order of governmental and religous regimes.

Peace,,TWS

[Chang Style Novice]

I haven't seen the Passion myself, and have no particular desire to do so. Gibson's past directorial efforts have ranged from mediocre to actively terrible, and his comments in the press make me think he's a vicious anti-semite with an eye towards concealing (poorly) his true bigotry. What's more, apparently he's becoming very VERY wealthy from the sale of Passion connected meerchandising (nail pendants and so on) which I think is a pretty repugnant example of profiteering from people's faith. Therefore, even if I desired to watch it, I wouldn't want to pay for it and put money in his pocket. Also, despite the hullaballoo about the movie being 'historically accurate' most scholarly analyses that I've read agree that it's wrong in a lot of ways - Romans speaking bad latin or using the wrong language entirely, an inaccurate crucifixion*, actors who look european instead of semitic, and so forth.

* Interestingly, Martin Scorcese's "The Last Temptation of Christ" supposedly gets these details right - criminals were crucified in the nude, not the loincloth of Cazaviel; the cross was shaped like a capital T, not a lower case t; the feet and legs were twisted to the side and the victim was supported by a sitting on a shelf, not with the legs stretched underneath and supported by standing on a footrest; Christ would only have borne the crossbar of the cross in his march to calvary, not the whole cross, and so on.

[Radhnoti]

I'm not Catholic, not even Christian. This is just my understanding of things.

TWS - "...i didnt really know that Mad Max was a hardcore catholic(or actually he is his own version of a catholic, i hear)..."

It is my understanding that when Mel cleaned up his life he went back to his Catholic roots...in a big way. He financed the construction of a church, found a priest that agrees with his way of doing things and brought him to Mel's "hometown". I believe that the only difference between their "group" and the more mainstream Catholic church is that they do the whole service in Latin. Which is NOT disallowed... and my understanding is that they are in good standing with the Catholic church as a whole.

CSN - "Gibson's past directorial efforts have ranged from mediocre to actively terrible..."

Wow, I really disagree. I have great respect for Braveheart...as do many critics and fans. I thought "The Man Without a Face" was not so bad for a directorial debut... I suppose this could simply be a matter of personal preference.

CSN - "...,and his comments in the press make me think he's a vicious anti-semite with an eye towards concealing (poorly) his true bigotry."

Again I disagree. If there is a hero, beside Jesus, it's Simon of Cyrene who struggles to help him with the cross. If anything, Mel MADE a hero of that marginal Biblical character. A Jew. Besides the obvious fact that Jesus himself, his mother, and the disciples were Jews, he emphasized dissent among the Sanhedrin.
Mel's father is the one with extreme views. I think it's fairly sickening to hear the media try to get Mel to denounce his father. "He says this, what do you think of it? Do you agree!?!" C'MON! It's his DAD. Who, by the way, is 85. Who's to say that Mel would have time to patch the hole his denouncing his father might produce? Maybe I've not seen all the evidence...if anyone has any links to an interview where Mr. Gibson comes across as antisemitic, please could you direct me there? I also know that the Jewish actors who were in the film were quite surprised to hear the accusations of folks who'd NOT EVEN SEEN THE MOVIE YET.
To quote a blogcritics.org, "People need to quit pretending that Gibson just made stuff up to smear the Jews. Look, if you want to argue that the New Testament is "anti-Semitic," go ahead. But don't be trying to blame Mel Gibson."

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Radhnoti
I believe that the only difference between their "group" and the more mainstream Catholic church is that they do the whole service in Latin. Which is NOT disallowed... and my understanding is that they are in good standing with the Catholic church as a whole.

Incorrect. The main difference is that the splinter group to which Mel belongs does not recognize the Vatican II reforms as valid. These are a large number of doctrinal points, one of which is the explicit statement that the Jews are not responsible for the death of Christ.

Of course, not accepting the Vatican II reforms doesn't automatically make you an anti-semite. But an anti-semite Catholic will tend to not accept them. And Mel is on record saying some questionable things about the Jews running Hollywood, and his father is a Holocaust denier. I don't really know whether Mel's anti-Semitic or not, but he hasn't gone out of his way to demonstrate otherwise.

Anyway, I'm not going to see it myself, because two hours of someone being whipped in slow motion sounds deadly ****ing dull to me.

[Volcano Admim]

Originally posted by FatherDog
Anyway, I'm not going to see it myself, because two hours of someone being whipped in slow motion sounds deadly ****ing dull to me.

You buddy have just caught the correct-o

First let me say... FREAKIN WEIRDEST AUDIENCE at a movie i was watching i had ever seen... dude there was some ladies that were focking eyes closed praying before the movie began... and a bunch of old people coughing like they were about to die... and a dude that kept licking his fingers while eating popcorn in a quite audible way.
I went to watch cos i thought maybe there could be some juicy polemical stuff on it... but there is nothing really polemical about this Jebus Criest movie, it bored me.
I felt more emotional when i saw Gladiator
In fact, this is Jebus movie is like the 3rd worst movie i spend my money on the movie theaters. Number 1 and 2 are one Adam Sandler comedy i forgot the name and some other movie i cant remember the name either.

Thats right kids,
I watched the newest Jebus movie...
And had to rent the classic movie Caligula on dvd later to wash away the boredom from my skin man

[Volcano Admim]

ok ok ok ok ok
let me add
there was ONE cool thing i said ONLY ONE SINGLE ONE
cool thing about the movie

THE LANGUAGES
I digged a lot the LATIN of the roman kids
I remember when Gladiator came out i was like: Yo they shoulda done that in LATIN, it would been so much more tits!!!

The languages are great, the rest... well, the rest...

I have to tell you man, and dudes, and wimmins around listening to me:
Even THE DEBIL on the movie was boring.

[Volcano Admim]

i just think it would have been a much better movie had they played Sympathy for the Devil from Rolling Stones at the end of it

[PaulH]

So TWS saw the Movie. Good. Some of the objection points that he raised up on his post are already answered in the Mel Gibson exclusive interview with Reader Digest (March 2004). I will let Mel speaks for himself on these:

RD: Someone along the way has suggested that you were hoping for a controversy like this in order to stir up interest in the film. Is there any truth to that?

G: I've heard that. When many attempts failed to make me back off or go away, then they said, "Well, we've played right into his hands. He's masterminded this controversy to market the film." This is so untrue. I didn't ask for this. Nobody wants to have their name besmirched on the front of newspapers and people say wicked things about them and their family, call them all sorts of names, accuse them of being anti-Semitic and everything else.

RD: Your father. I have read in some articles that your father has some very conservative religious beliefs, and, according to at least one story, that he has questioned some of the accepted versions of the Holocaust. Is there anything you want to share about that?

G: My dad taught me my faith, and I believe what he taught me. The man never lied to me in his life. He was born in 1918. He lost his mother at 2 years of age. He lost his father at 15. He went through the Depression. He signed up for WWII, went off to Guadalcanal, got malaria and shot at and didn't like it too much. Served his country fighting the forces of fascism. Came back, worked very hard physically, raised a family, put a roof over my head, clothed me, fed me, taught me my faith, loved me. I love him back. So I'll slug it out until my heart is black-and-blue if anyone tries to hurt him.

RD: You're going to thave to go on record. The Holocaust happened, right?

G: I have friends and parents of friends who have numbers on their arms. The guy who taught me Spanish was a Holocaust survivor. He worked in a concentration camp in France. Yes, of course. Atrocities happened. War is horrible. The Second World War killed tens of millions of people. Some of them were Jews in concentration camps...

RD: Many who have seen the film have said it is powerful, shattering. But some have also said the film is too graphic and violent. What do you say to that?

G: It's pretty raw, and I think it's graphic, yes. But I believe that that's the reality of it. From many accounts I've read, I think it was actually more violent than what you're going to see in this film. According to the psalmists, you couldn't even recognize him as being a human. That's how bad it was.

RD: Were you trying to communicate something through the very graphic nature of the film?

G: I wanted to impress on the viewers the enormousness of this sacrifice, the willingness-and the horror of it. I wanted to overwhelm people with it. But it has escape hatches. There are little places of respite within the film where you can escape from the violence and find lyricism and beauty.

RD: Such as when you cut away to a memory of Mary's, when Christ as a little boy falls and she runs to him. You took us out of the narrative to go back in time to a moment of love.

G: That's what the film is about. It's about the greatest expression of love. No greater love has a man that he would lay down his life for his friends.