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beiquan
02-07-2001, 02:25 AM
i am thinking of starting to jog in order to bring up my endurance for performing forms and fighting... can anyone offer any advice on this? i have also been told that wind sprints are a better exercise for kung fu, does anyone do this sort of training?

thanks...

Robinf
02-07-2001, 05:03 PM
I do windsprints on my own. It has helped me immensely. I used to just straight out jog, which I still do because I enjoy it, but the windsprints helped me more because of the sudden bursts of speed then the quick recovery time, just like doing a form or sparring.

Remember, though, to thoroughly stretch after your jog/run.

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

gumyilo
02-07-2001, 06:40 PM
I was thinking of jogging also to increase my endurance but whats a windsprint?

"The superior man hoards nothing. The more he uses for the benefit of others, the more he possesses himself. The more he gives to his fellow man, the more he has of his own." Lao Tzu

skuall
02-07-2001, 07:01 PM
its faster running..i think

premier
02-07-2001, 07:17 PM
I can't remember the correct terms, but weren't there two different kinds of muscle fibres, fast and slow. Slow fibres are the ones needed for endurance and they're developed by endurance training like jogging. Fast fibres gives you the speed and explosive power and those are the fibres you need in martial arts.. so. wouldn't jogging be kind of a bad thing for kicking power?

Robinf
02-07-2001, 07:23 PM
Windsprints are when you start off with a jog at a comfortable pace to warm up, then sprint as fast as you can for a certain distance or time, then return to the comfortable jog to recover. For me, the sprint and jog are the same length of time rather than distance, as it takes more time to cover the same distance when you're jogging as opposed to sprinting. In sparring, you only have the same amount of recovery time as you do with the spurts of attack/defense.

I do about ten sets of this per workout, and increase the time in order to improve. So, I start out sprinting for 20 seconds, then jog 20, and do that ten times. After getting used to that for a few workouts, I increase to 30 seconds sprinting and jogging. But, you can engineer your workout to however you want, but the basis of a windspring workout is to sprint fast then recover then sprint then recover then sprint then...

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

baji-boy
02-07-2001, 11:43 PM
"I can't remember the correct terms, but weren't there two different kinds of muscle fibres, fast and slow. Slow fibres are the ones needed for endurance and they're developed by endurance training like jogging. Fast fibres gives you the speed and explosive power and those are the fibres you need in martial arts.. so. wouldn't jogging be kind of a bad thing for kicking power?"


premier, just to correct you, it's Slow Twitch and Fast Twitch! :D Thank goodness for the 9th grade Personal Fitness I took this year! :) ;)

beiquan
02-08-2001, 01:28 AM
thanks for the tip, robin. i think that i will give the windsprints a try...

12345
07-18-2002, 02:40 AM
Ran my first ever competitive race last night, a 7 miler, tough hilly course, managed to complete it well inside my target time of 49 minutes (7 minute miles) but was a bit p i s s e d off at the end because I run harder at the weekend on my own - I was too conservative with it being my first race. The winning times were about 10 minutes faster than me although I did come in the top half - there was a real spread of abililty and ages. Realistically I reckon I can get down to around 43-44 minutes before my natural lack of athletic ability kicks in. I would recommend entering these events just to see some of the women that enter too. This post has naff all to do with kung fu (did they censor naff ??) but wtf.

guohuen
07-18-2002, 08:44 AM
Sounds good. I like to come out of the gate fairly fast to get possition and then ease into a pace. This way I get good position and still have something left for the last lap.

friday
01-03-2003, 07:38 PM
hi just wondering i've been running about 2.5 kms every couple of days.

i find that my shin gets painful...my neighbour was telling me b4 about how some ppl get 'splints'??? which means blood collects from the impact when u jog at the shin area and u have to massage it away and stretch it out otherwise long term u need surgery or something.

anyway any ideas? is this true?
any tips for getting rid of the pain in the shins?

i had a friend who was training for a marathon and he was running 30 kms or something a day. i find it pretty incredible :). i'm falling all over the place if i run to about 3km

TkdWarrior
01-04-2003, 12:51 AM
well it's true very much true...
i think u just started running n ur legs r not used to it...
this is way i run
run for 1 min brisk walking for 90 seconds do this about 7-8 times
then u can increase the running or decrease the timing of walking.
it helps without getting splints...
hav good warm up/stretching before running(i prefer around 15 minutes of stretching)
after running cool down slowly by ending up stretching again...
some good tips at runnersworld.co.uk
-TkdWarrior-

rubthebuddha
01-04-2003, 01:37 AM
had shin splints when i used to play hardcourt tennis about 20 hours per week. doctor said to strengthen the muscles in the front of my shin. i did, the splints went byebye.

easy way to strengthen them -- and i got results in just this -- is to sit down normally, and straighten one leg out in front of you point your toes forward, then try to point them toward your head and extend your heel toward the wall in front of you. point the toes forward again, etc. do a set of 10 or 20, then switch legs. this is an easy exercise to build up strength in. once you can do a set of 50 or so, you're about as good as you need to be.

friday
01-04-2003, 03:09 AM
hey thanks guys i appreciate your advice :)

i think i've been running closer to 3kms just did a bit of calc.
wasn't doing much b4 that which probably explains why. this is my routine recently for jogging:

do my stretches, for about 10mins or so. then quick walk down to the park. and run around in rectangles. i start off pretty slowly
and then up it a bit and keep it steady till i'm on the last one or two laps where i run. the whole jog takes me about 18-20mins.

then i always warm down by walking around a bit or on the walk home and most times i stretch as well. massaging the shin area kinda helps but is a bit painful. so i'm going to give those exercises a shot.

i was also thiking of making the running a bit more varied. i was thinking of doing short 100m sprints then slow jog then sprint again. unfortunately after running i don't usually feel like doing anything else and there isn't anyone else around who i can work focus mitts with etc. i watched that kwoon training video where the kwoon guys try to do a training session that a professional san shou guy has to do in the US and i'm interested in doing something like that. do u guys do anything with your jogging?
i'd like to up my jog eventually to about 5kms and keep it at that.
its kinda boring running around a park aroudn and around and around.

TkdWarrior
01-04-2003, 06:43 AM
its kinda boring running around a park aroudn and around and around.
lol tell me about it...
the time when i run is i m alone it's around 4:15 in cold winter ...
but i just do it for a good workout...
it's important to vary ur running workout as it's boring like like... (doh feels like lost words :))
well if u hav a freind who does marathon then get advice from him...no one can better tell u about running than those guys...
-TkdWarrior-

friday
01-04-2003, 09:33 PM
hey TKDWarrior
i checked out that uk website its pretty good. i particularly liked the rating of diffierent ground types. i'm probably never going to run on concrete or the pavement although the change in view would be nice. i think that website gave concrete a rating of 2 or osmething out of 10. i think the impact is too much and longterm won't be good for my knees. i find that running on grass in the local park is tiring but the impact is less. i've tried running home on cement after running at the park and there is a big difference. so in order to retain the long term value in my legs etc and avoid injuries of which i have had my fair share of :)i'm sticking to the grass. thanks guohen for that pointer.

actually my friend eventually ran the 45 km marathon race. i think he did it in about 2.5 - 3 hours. i've talked to him about it b4 for some tips. mainly he talked about competing, preparation and the body, water, etc. the focus is a bit different from me. i just want to eventually run 5kms in half an hour and do that 2-3 times a wk
and thats it. i like combining it with swimming and kung fu training.
i'll be working fulltime again soon so i will be going swimming during lunch or the gym, and training again after work either running or kung fu related stuff.
sorry for the ramble :)

friday
01-04-2003, 09:35 PM
:) another thing TKDwarrior

it is very boring running around a park. but the thing is i find i do better when ppl are there. its kind of ego related. i push myself by thinking ppl are watching me and counting the number of laps i'm doing so if i quit after doing only a bit i'm going to look bad. so i keep forcing myself to reach a goal. i also think its less boring when there are a few things to look around at as i run. its funny how strange thoughts go over in your mind as u run and your caught up in your own little world.

Cheese Dog
01-05-2003, 11:41 PM
Friday, follow Gouhen's advice about not running on hard surfaces until it's completely healed. Also the stretching and massaging after running. Lucky for me, back in my running days (I don't run very often nowadays because it makes my knees really sore if I do it too often) I never had shin splints because my tibialis anterior (the muscle on the front of your shins) was very strong from playing the drums. You're constantly raising and lowering your toes to play the bass drum and hi-hat! Of course I recommend that everyone play a musical instrument to improve their martial arts practice!
But seriously, a couple of my friend suffered from shin splints and after they were healed I got them to just sit on a chair and raise and lower their toes for a few minutes a day (music is optional!) Both of them told me their shins were much better for it. Good luck!

friday
01-11-2003, 12:45 AM
hi guys
ran again today b4 going to a kf class. it seems better with the splints having run a few times now.

anyway wat do ppl think of me putting down the training i do everyday as a motivational tool as well as getting tips from ppl on kfo on this thread or a new thread. it'll be like a diary. mite sound like a crazy idea but who knows it mite help me. i find its pretty hard to push myself sometimes.

is there anyrthing on breathing when jogging that i should know about? mite be a silly question.

also i've been bad today
i didn't eat any breaky went for the run came home ate some sugary lollies and then went to kf class. after i ate a decent meal. but two hours later i'm feeling hungry again! i think i need a healthier diet! ...i think i need more friends to talk to about this stuff lol.

inic
01-11-2003, 07:54 AM
sit in seiza and that will strengthen your ankles and shins... and for God's sake, dont run on pavement, run on grass or dirt!

friday
01-12-2003, 05:48 AM
hey guohen

whats tendonitis same as shin splints?
yah i'm doing the exercises u guys were talking about. btw when can u say u actually have shin splints? is that as soon as u get pain in your shins after running? or do u have to reach a certain problem level b4 its called a shin splint?

it doesn't seem as bad this time. massaging it this time doesn't hurt as much either.

today i did 80 pushups of different types
some dumbell work and situps. was planning on doing some qigong at nite but got lazy hehehe.
:D

i'm planning on doing the sprints tomorrow. sprint 100m, jog , sprint again etc. and do that till i drop. then afterwards do some form work and breaking up the techs and drilling them individually. i'll see how my shins feel tomorrow.

tuesday i'll do 25 laps of 50m pool. planned to go kf class that nite but...BBQ happening mite catch some personal training again.

wednesday i'm visiting a friends kwoon for a look at his style (great friend!) and a bit of sparring with his students. sparring is something i don't do that much so it will be a great learning exp for me. i'm worried i'm going to get puffed out if i take the full class sigh...

thursday kf class

well i'll report on friday and see whether my plans turn out ok or whether i bomb out cos i'm friggin lazy ass!!! :p

friday
01-12-2003, 05:51 AM
btw what do ppl think of doing techniques in water? aside from the fact i'll look a bit silly lol

alot of my techs are circular etc so i'm wondering whether training them in water with the waters resistance will build up speed and power?
nothing to do with running i know but i've partially converted this thread to a 'my training diary' thingy lol hope no one is peed off.
:)

TkdWarrior
01-12-2003, 06:25 AM
do techniques in the water or on the water doesn't matter till the time u r doing it :D

. its kind of ego related. i push myself by thinking ppl are watching me and counting the number of laps
hmmm it's nice idea to push urself but i m **** too much ignorant i know my body needs
-TkdWarrior-

Cheese Dog
01-13-2003, 01:32 AM
Hey Gouhen, how about let's start an "all martial artist" band! We could combine kickin' music and kickin' arse!!

friday
01-13-2003, 03:43 AM
i'll sing ok??

Ming Yue
01-13-2003, 07:15 AM
I got shinsplints from running on pavement for a few weeks during an intensive portion of training. The only thing that helped was building the muscles on the front of the shin.

Wrap velcro style ankle weights around the top portion of the foot, and while seated, raise the top of the foot toward the shins with the weights on.

Get good shoes, too, that's really important.

-C

guohuen
01-13-2003, 11:29 AM
I'll fill in on bass, guitar, drums and vocals. Let's keep it heavy and rockin. Maybe if we're bluesy I can play some slide.

Cheese Dog
01-13-2003, 09:44 PM
Hey, we can ALL sing! Don't you know that the more people you have singing off-key the better it sounds! I can play drums, guitar, and piano and some good hard rockin' blues would be SWEET!!!! Know any Buddy Guy?

guohuen
01-14-2003, 11:31 AM
I don't cop any of his stuff directly, but he's a huge influence on me for tone and feel. I suppose we'll have to use the KFO tourny rules so we'll still have finger to play with.:p I love harmony so the more vocalist the better.:D Long as we don't sound like "sing along withthe drunken a s s e s" from saturday night live.

Cheese Dog
01-15-2003, 01:53 AM
We'll just have to save the drinking until AFTER practice. Well, at least most of it!

IronFist
08-03-2003, 06:25 PM
Does your body adapt to running in the sense of calories burned?

Like say you're totally out of shape, and you go run 1 mile in 12 minutes. You're all tired and out of breath when you finish, and you're pulse is racing. You have just burned x calories.

Say you keep running for months and months. You get better, etc.

Now, you go run 1 mile in that same 12 minutes. Am I correct in assuming that you've just burned less calories than the first time you did it? Your heart rate is lower now when you finish, so that means less calories burned, right?

So if you want to burn a lot of calories when you run, you have to keep increasing the demand placed on your body, right?

My friend wants to know, and I don't know much about running.

Thanks,

IronFist

rubthebuddha
08-03-2003, 08:17 PM
not sure it's that simple. i think it's more along the lines of your heartrate times the length of exercise. just think of the load you're putting on your respiratory system times the length it is under load.

now, this comment:


My friend wants to know, and I don't know much about running.

that friend wouldn't be the same person who quit ptp because he had no endurance and also started running on behalf of his marathonish girlfriend but wound up going into cardiac arrest just shy of 1½ miles? ;)

Ford Prefect
08-04-2003, 10:53 AM
I think you adapt as your VO2 Max increases and your heart rate improves, but I think the calories burned while running are more a function of how fast/hard your legs are working and how much weight they have to move. Your legs are much bigger muscles than your heart and require a lions share of the energy (calories) to keep them moving.

In other words, I think calories used during running are more dependent on how heavy you are and how fast you're going rather than how efficient your cardiovascular system is.

IronFist
08-04-2003, 03:40 PM
that friend wouldn't be the same person who quit ptp because he had no endurance and also started running on behalf of his marathonish girlfriend but wound up going into cardiac arrest just shy of 1½ miles?

No :D The friend who wants to know is the "marathonish girlfriend." :)

And for the record, the next week I ran 1.8 miles and was a little less tired when I finished than I was after the initial 1.2 miles. So there!!! :p

Ford said:
In other words, I think calories used during running are more dependent on how heavy you are and how fast you're going rather than how efficient your cardiovascular system is.

So, what if your weight is exactly the same on the two runs, and the speed and time are the same, but the only difference is that on the first run you suck are totally tired when you're done, but on the later run you're awesome and aren't very tired at all. Like this:

Run 1: Distance = X Time = Y Weight = Z Finishing heart rate = 170

Run 2: Distance = X Time = Y Weight = Z Finishing heart rate = 80

Did Run 2 burn less calories than Run 1?

IronFist

rubthebuddha
08-04-2003, 04:33 PM
my gut tells me the run themselves burned no more, no less, if you assume the quality and form of the run was the same. the better then runner, more often, the less work they have to do. just comes with refinement.

moving Y lbs. X miles in theory should require the same effort. i think the bigger difference would be that, since the more in-shape person (let's call him Slim, and the less in-shape person Chubs) has a more efficient cardio vascular system, he'll be quicker to recover and be able to go a greater distance, because he wasn't as taxed in relation to HIS personal maximums.

i would also think that Slim would have a generally faster metabolism as well, and would lose weight better during resting periods. could be overgeneralizing here though.

i have a few more thoughts on this, but i can't seem to sort them out in my brain. maybe having ford or plcrane or someone else correct me on what i just said will straighten them out.

Ford Prefect
08-05-2003, 06:52 AM
I think the difference would be negligable.

TigerJaw
08-05-2003, 09:40 AM
Perhaps, if Chubs is unfit, he has smaller leg muscles that use fewer calories. Slim is therefore using more claories, not just when running but generally. Obviously, this wouldn't be much of a difference becasue the increase in lean mass for a runner would be relatively small but it might offset the other effect.

Ford Prefect
08-05-2003, 09:57 AM
That's logically unsound though. If chubs had smaller leg muscles, then he'd in fact be working them more intensly since those small muscles would have to move his heavy body. So:

small leg muscles = less calories used but more intense work

large leg muscles = more calories used but less intense work

It would seem they would cancel each other other out and be more or less equal.

TonyM.
08-05-2003, 10:13 AM
They do cancel each other out, exept larger thighs have the unpleasant fault of rubbing together when you run sometimes forcing you to run bowlegged to stop the chaffing.:D Still prefer the larger muscles though.

IronFist
08-05-2003, 02:55 PM
So you don't adapt. Alright. Thanks.

IronFist

TigerJaw
08-06-2003, 12:34 AM
No, you do adapt. The question is if the adatations lead to you using fewer or more calories. I suspect that there are so many factors to consider that it's not a simple linear relationship and probably depends on your age, build, gender etc. I suspect that these are in fact second order effects and as such, can be ignored.

IronFist
08-06-2003, 08:03 PM
I always thought that heart rate had a big effect on calories burned, or if not, at least it was kind of an indicator.

Since an experienced runner can run the same distance at the same speed as an inexperienced runner, and finish with a much lower heart rate, I assume that meant fewer calories burned.

Since I'm so skinny I never really cared about burning calories, but now I'm curious.

So provide scientific data, please :D

(or just summarize it)

IronFist

GeneChing
04-18-2019, 09:38 AM
How Sore Is Too Sore to Run? We Asked 2 Running Doctors, and Here's What They Said (https://www.popsugar.com/fitness/OK-Run-Sore-Muscles-46045812)
April 18, 2019
by MAGGIE RYAN

https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/ncjjdCHoWuCeE6z6U3TB3NnDIt8/fit-in/2048xorig/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2019/04/17/962/n/1922729/tmp_qSAZCi_6304c0c70dfc81d4_GettyImages-1097313642.jpg

Runners are notorious for pushing through the pain when it might be smarter to ease up. To be fair, it's often hard to know when a pain is just plain soreness from a tough workout or run, or when it's serious enough to merit a break. And whether you're training for a race or competition or are just dedicated to your routine, taking a break can feel tougher than a tempo run or a set of burpees. POPSUGAR asked two exercise physiologists and running experts when exactly it's OK to run when you're sore and when it's better to stop and rest.

To review, the soreness we're talking about stems from micro-tears in your muscles, and is also known as delayed onset muscle soreness, or DOMS, which is that stiffness and soreness you'll feel for a day or two after a hard run or workout. A sharper, more muscle-specific pain may indicate a strained or pulled muscle, which you'll need a doctor to diagnose or treat.

When Can You Run?

"If running is not provoking or making your pain and soreness worse," said Steven Mayer, MD, sports medicine specialist at the Northwestern Medicine Running Clinic, "I'm very comfortable with you continuing to run as you normally would." If the soreness isn't getting worse when you run, essentially, you should be good to go — it's likely not running-related or a muscle strain or pull, so you won't make it any worse. An easy run can even soothe soreness, said Michael Fredericson, MD, professor and director of physical medicine and sports medicine at Stanford University.

However, Dr. Mayer told POPSUGAR that it's best not to start increasing your mileage or intensity until the soreness has passed. "Most running injuries we see are overuse injuries," he said. "It starts out as something mild, so you keep going and it gets worse." Pushing your pace, distance, or intensity when your muscles are sore can lead to tightness and inflammation, which can cause a muscle tear. "Once it gets to that point, it gets very hard to treat," Dr. Mayer said. Easing up on your training is the best way to avoid that outcome.

When Should You Stop?

On the flip side, if you think that running caused your injury — and if running on it makes it feel worse — both Dr. Mayer and Dr. Fredericson agreed that it's best to stop and give yourself time to recover. It's likely that the injury is related to running, so continuing to run could aggravate it. "Focus on your stretching for a week or two," Dr. Mayer said. You can start slowly bringing running back in after a few weeks, stopping again if you start to feel pain. The soreness could also be related to a strained or pulled muscle, in which case it's essential to rest it from any exercise until you get a doctor's OK.

You should also avoid running on a sore Achilles tendon, Dr. Fredericson said. Pushing a sore Achilles too far can lead to Achilles tendonitis, which occurs when the tendon gets inflamed and which can have you off your feet for a lot longer than simple soreness.

You should also make sure your soreness and pain is coming from a muscle, and not a bone. Push on the area that's sore; if it's hard, then the pain is coming from a bone. That can be a sign of a more serious injury, like a stress fracture. Look out for swelling around the source of pain as well. If you see either of those signs — bone pain or swelling — visit your doctor for an evaluation.

What Can You Do Instead?

If soreness or injury puts you out of running shape for a while, it's time to turn to lower-impact activities. Luckily, you have a lot of choices. "This is when the pool is great," Dr. Fredericson said. Swimming laps is easy on your joints and a good cardio replacement for running; Dr. Mayer recommended water jogging as well. You can also hit the elliptical or the stationary bike, or try a low-impact cardio abs workout for the gym or at home. The key is to find an activity that doesn't exacerbate your running injuries while still giving you the workout you want.

"I think people are always scared that they won't be able to exercise," Dr. Mayer said. "But there are very few injuries that would force you to stop completely. We may have to modify or switch from running to something else, but you can find a way to stay in shape while treating a specific problem."

Image Source: Getty / KOLOstock
Random ttt just to give this neglected subforum some luv.

SteveLau
05-03-2019, 11:54 PM
ttt 4 2019!, thanks for your referred article. I agree with it completely.

A week ago, I had a bad hiking trip in joining a local hiking group. The distance was too long (~ 6 km). More than 1 km was through bush and trees. After that it took me about a week to fully recover from sore legs and feet. If you figure that I will not join trip in that hiking group any more, you are correct. During the week of recovery, I was still having active rest, doing BB, MA, and even a running session. But the running did not include sprint which I usually do if my physical condition allows it. The important point is my muscle soreness did not get worse because of keep on doing my regular training exercises. And that should be the correct principle.




Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

mawali
05-06-2019, 06:45 PM
Does your body adapt to running in the sense of calories burned?

Like say you're totally out of shape, and you go run 1 mile in 12 minutes. You're all tired and out of breath when you finish, and you're pulse is racing. You have just burned x calories.

Say you keep running for months and months. You get better, etc.

Now, you go run 1 mile in that same 12 minutes. Am I correct in assuming that you've just burned less calories than the first time you did it? Your heart rate is lower now when you finish, so that means less calories burned, right?

So if you want to burn a lot of calories when you run, you have to keep increasing the demand placed on your body, right?

My friend wants to know, and I don't know much about running.

Thanks,

IronFist

When you start to run, your body is not accustomed to the activity (actually your muscles) so you get tired quickly and you stop or else it could be dangerous. Then there is perceived exertion, where being not accustomed to the activity, you are working harder to reach a goal which required the equivalent of gong (frequency, duration and intensity) and you need the time to reach a place where you can run 3 miles.
You start by running (jogging) at a pace where you can talk and run without getting out of breadth for about 1 mile the first month. At the second month, your muscles begin to work efficiently so you become "less tired" and you become better at burning /using glycogen as fuel. Caloreis are of secondary importance but you become efficient at burning fat stores over time providing you make this a lifelong activity. Short term work is not work the while btu being active in all spheres of life is always a better strategy.
There is something called Karvonen's formula regarding your heart rate at a specific age. See the family doctor for further explanations.
The link is about measuring heart rate and intensity:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/fitness/in-depth/exercise-intensity/art-20046887

EqualStage
05-29-2019, 10:35 PM
I've done some jogging and sports running, I do love it and recommend many people do this. At least once a week. At the beginning of my hobby (jogging), it was a pretty bad start for me. As I thought it's all that simple and you don't need to know much about running, right? Wrong. I remember that I would always have scars on my feet because of my shoes. You see I didn't really use good and healthy shoes for my exercise. I would usually pick up any pair that I used every day. I've been reading a fair bit about footwear on https://perfectshoesforyou.com/best-work-and-hiking-boots-for-flat-feet/ and realized there are actually ways for people to wear their shoes "Healthy." I did come to understand did myself with much reading and research. There’s a huge amount of options for shoes for many activities. Obviously, I was into jogging and such. I would ask anyone to do a little reading before indulging in any sport at the end of the day. I wish I would have done some learning before I started.