'Cat calls' & Bruce Lee

[Helicopter]

I was flicking thru one off the innumerable Bruce Lee books at my local bookshop the other day and I read that Bruce Lee studied some Hung Ga.
It occurred to me that that's where he might have got his 'cat calls' from as they sound similar to some of the emotion sounds in Hung Ga.
This is pure speculation, I was just wondering if anyone had any opinions or knowledge of the origin of his 'cat calls'.

[TargetAlex]

I don't know what inspired Burce to use the 'cat calls' he did in his films, however I have heard from reliable sources that he never used them when really fighting.

[Nevermind]

I have been wondering about this since I was a small child. That Hung Ga theory makes a lot of sense. You know, my brother told me when I was a kid that he read a book that explained that Bruce was imitating the 5 animals when he did those noises. I thought my brother was just talking out his arse. (he usually is) But maybe there is something to that. All in all, I still think he only did it for entertainment value. If you watch the Green Hornet, Marlowe, and his screen test demonstration, you will notice that he doesn't do those "cat calls". From what I've read, he actually started doing his trademark gestures, cat calls, and poses on the set of Chinese Connection when he wanted to show the choreographer Han Ying Cheh how he felt his fight scenes should look. Makes sense. If you notice in the Big Boss he doesn't do any of his trademark mannerisms. The Big Boss was choreographed by Han Ying Cheh as well. However, he and Bruce didn't agree on the set of Chinese Connection so Bruce choreographed his fight scenes himself.

[Ryu]

Thought it was somewhat like a "war cry" type of thing.
maybe I'm wrong. :)

Ryu

[Rafael]

Yes ,


I think you all are right. Bruce in his movie is doing crane calls/tiger growls trying to capture the essence and spirit of the five animals in his movies.

Sometimes he would use some animal technique in his movies for show .

Alex is right in where when it was real Bruce would not do this.

It was for the big screen . A point most be made however that in Gung fu styles like the 5 animals or hung gar you do not always have to use their techniques to benifet from these systems.

You could capture the essance mentality like being as powerful as a tiger or as cunning as a dragon as strong as a panther as graceful as a crane . It can be a mentality .


RF-

[dezhen2001]

as far as i remember reading it was chum kiu and a little dummy...

:)
david

[SSgungfu]

I heard the "cat calls" Bruce did were purely for the screen, and he did not make those noises when he trained. To the contrary, I heard he remained completely silent when fighting/training. I always thought the cat calls were for the silverscreen.

[Rafael]

Its not how much you learn per sey . Many people make the mistake that just cause bruce lee hadn't learned all of wing chun that makes him less. The fact is all the keys of the system are in sil lum tau . an accumilation or more does not mean better. The innvations he had made on his own made him far superior figher then most of the wing chun masters out there even in this day in age . Fast as instant hitting like a heavyweight with far better structure then most who complete the whole system . That was Bruce . His JKD was a daily decrease in fact or stripping what is not essential . So all & all most WC men want you to belive just cause you know all the forms your better . Simlpy not so . If so and so knows all the forms and cannot cannot hold so and so jock strap in real fighting they are not better !

I am not mad or upset ..just making key points people do not stop to ponder. More does not mean better .

What Bruce did know of WC (about 65%) he knew a lot better then 99%of the wc masters out there . He made this work for him better with his own innovations . Jessie glover has gone on record to basiclly say he has touched hands with many so called ruputed WC masters and grandmasters . He has said he has only met only a few out of hundreds that even come close to what Bruce Lee had. Pat Strong has made similar comments to me in our conversations and training sessions ( he trained directly with Bruce Lee and later with hawkins chueng ).

RF-

[freestyler]

Watch the movie "Way of the Dragon", in the scene where he fights Chuck Norris.
Notice the black cat in the arena. Bruce bending down to touch his toes and stretch, then the following scene with the cat stretching. The cat meows coarsley to start the battle, and Bruce unleases with his trademark wotar screeching.
I think he was inspired by the agile grace of the cat. Fast, sleek, flexible, natural hunter.
It makes sense if he didn't screech off screen. He wouldn't be kicking much higher than the knee cap off screen either.

[vingtsunstudent]

excuse me sunstylin but i have seen you acting kinda silly on a thread in the past.
i would simply like to know who you train with. i presume you have nothing to hide or fear seeing as though in your profile you didn't mind letting us know about your boxing, kicboxing titles and such.
and by the way you are not entirely correct with your story of wong sifu & bruce.
vts

[Helicopter]

Does anyone know what part of the Hung Ga syllabus Bruce learnt?

[Nevermind]

According to a book on him , he learned the basics of Hung Gar from a friend of his dad's. I believe the book is called Bruce Lee: The Tao of Gung Fu by John Little. I could be wrong about the title but I am almost sure its by John Little. There is a section at the end that sums up the traditional kung fu styles that Bruce studied. Also on the list were Wing Chun (of course),Eagle Claw, 5 Animal Shaolin, Southern Praying Mantis, and Tai Chi Chuan. There may have been a couple more listed but I can't remember.

[Rafael]

Bruce could not even strike Wong Sifu. This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that everything you wrote has zero credability in a court of law. This is ironclad evidence.
Wong knew the whole system, there are other elements that the other forms have which bruce did not demonstrate to have knowledge of. There are pics of his lack of understanding of WC structure eg a common pic of bruce on the dummy where his butt is sticking >

Zero Credibility in a court of law ? Who's court ? Your own ?.....Now let me ask you some questions of my own . Have you trained with WSL ? If so you would know WSL appraisal of Mr Lee which was very high by the way (if you knew him you would know that )He could get to WSL as WSL could get to him but thats not important .

See what you wrote lacks any type of credibilty because

A .Unless you were there you don't know .

B. You Never saw Bruce hands on .

c.The King of the biemo's )WSL has high appraisal for what Bruce Lee was doing .

I was not their . I am not old enough (33) . However Patrick Strong in fact did know and stand with Bruce and touched hands with him . He ( Patrick ) is training me in his approach .. He has stressed Bruce was fantastic and about as good as they come . Patrick has Trained with Hawkins chueng (for 18+years I might add)who if you didn't know was a classmate of Bruce when they trained with IP man and WSL . I think if anyone where to know what Bruce was capable of I think these two men would . So it is the 3rd person but I will take these 2 men word on this . They are honorable men. You are misinformed that Bruce could not touch WSL later on .

<Thankyou for informing me that you are not mad or upset!!
Ponder this then, if more does not mean better then why did Bruce go and collect styles?? ...seems the opposite of what you just said. >

For one you write as an egocentric . I was not informing you as I did not even know we were conversing.

For the last time Bruce Lee did not go out to "collect " styles . This in your writings shows your lack of understanding of what JKD is and what Bruce was doing. It in fact was a daily decrease or stripping away what was not essenstial .

He did look into styles but not for AN ACCUMULATION or to clutter himself .....


I think you may want to study this more and get your facts straight. :)

So if we go by your logic ,being WSL did know WC ...you think more is better right ?


Great post VINGTSUNSTUDENT. You are right on the money .

Peace

RF

[chen zhen]

To get back to the topic

Personally I have always found it annoying that when you tell some ignorant people that you train kung fu that they always have to say "WWaahTTaaAAHhh" and other Bruce Lee- like screams.

Even back when I studied Tai Chi and the classes where situated outdoors in the summer There would be people walking by making Cat and Bird and whatever weird screams:D

Is there anyone else that also has found this annoying?

[Helicopter]

Yeah. I hate all that 'WaaTaa!!' ****. We often practice in the park and get people leaning out of passing cars making cat calls. (either that or shouting 'Wankers!' which is even more infuriating.)

Unfortunately in the Hung Kuen we do there is 16 sounds (vocalisations), when I learn Tit Sin (Iron Wire) I hope I have a (very) private garden. :)

[chen zhen]

Hee Hee, nice to hear someone as irritated as me!
Also, it seems I have the same book as you mentioned. I just didn't think that section of the book was very well researched. Saying that "he was familiar with aspects of Chin Na but that he didn't study it" in the section mentioning his gung fu background was far out.

[chen zhen]

Someone know the name of the man who taught BL Hung Ga?

[Nevermind]

The book doesn't say the name of the guy that taught him Hung Gar. Just that, he was taught the "fundamentals" of the style by a friend of his dad's. If you watch, his old screen test which is featured on the new documentary, "Warrior's Journey", he does some animal techniques that look pretty Hung Gar-ish. Especially the tiger techniques. Pretty cool. (o:

[chen zhen]

I shave seen those clips too, but someone on the southern forum once said that what he called the "crane" form actually was the intro of a Jing Wu form. but I don't know if that is true.

[HuangKaiVun]

From what I've seen, Bruce Lee's Wing Chun is the best - better than even Yip Man's in my opinion.

I studied Hung Ga, and the style does not have those high pitched screams. Their noises are guttural diaphragm-oriented belly growls that are designed to harden their abdominals for internal strengthening purposes.

Rather, I have heard that those who practice White Crane use those calls to imitate the sound of birds that attack. I don't recall Bruce Lee studying White Crane, but he did study Eagle Claw's "Jeet Kune" set before coming to America. However, Eagle Claw is an unrelated style.

Doubtless, Bruce Lee knew of White Crane's tendency to use that kind of sound. Though I didn't see Lee using White Crane in any of his movies, I'm sure he figured that such a sound would be very entertaining on a movie soundtrack regardless of its original usage.

[Rafael]

S

[Rafael]

So you are under Dr Lueng Ting ?

With your agressiveness I could tell you may be under some pro WT ,WC Vt organization like that . Thats fine as long as it helps you .

Now if the story 's are true or not from a magazine is not important. But you must remmeber when Bruce Trained witn WSL he was 16-17 years old when they trained 6 hours a day every day for a year and a half .

Later on when he was a man 31=32 they had met again and things where a bit different then before by WSL accounts .

Other then that both men where outstanding in what they did and they both have my utmost respect RIP both of them.

However lets just say what you say is true . How does knowing that help you ? Are you on WSL level ? Could you personally stand up to Bruce ? See Sunstyling someone could hide behind their sifu's or idiols but it comes down to really what you can do ...not you sigung sidai you get the idea.

So to me it's uninportant right now as both WSL and Bruce where good friends . They are both gone now. Both left their marks on the martial arts world .

But again whats the significance of this all ?

For me nothing as its about knowing yourself ...

So again how does this help you knowing this ?


There comes a time when an artists needs to stand on his /her own two feet and not the achomplishments of their teachers or idiols .

What can you do?


RF

[Helicopter]

There are 16 or 11 vocalisations (depending how you count them) in Hung Ga not all of them gutteral, I haven't done any of the forms that use them yet,but some of the emotional sounds I've seen demonstrated are similar to some of the noises B Lee used. eg: Sorrow and Joy. The 'Ho' of the crane is also in Hung Ga.

[sunstylin]

Barry Lee wrote the article are you claiming you know more than your sifu?

[vingtsunstudent]

firstly, yes i have heard both the stories as to the black eyes and the side kick one.
i have also heard many more from my sifu and other teachers/seniors under barry.
i would appreciate if you could post that article as i have never seen one written by barry that says things exactly like you have said, i could be wrong.
there are a few things i could say here about letters i have heard about from bruce to wong and vice versa that showed what wong thought of bruce and his skills but unfortunately at the moment all this **** just bores me, much like your know it all attitude sunstylin.
so who is your teacher, don't give me just letters, show some pride.
you seem to know who my teacher is, so if your in sydney and know anyone from barry's schools, feel free to ask about me.
my name is anthony c. from newcastle. perhaps one day we may get a chance to train together and do some chi sao, you may even get a chance to show me why your such a cocky and arrogant little *******.

vts

by the way, i could never and would never even claim to know but about 1 percent of what my teacher does and the worst part in that is that i'm not exaggerating.

[Rafael]

LOL...............=)

good post !

RF-

[shaun]

hey guys,
i know this is probably a stupid question but who is wong sifu, or WSL or something...anyone can shed some light?

[Rafael]

WSL is none other then Wong Shueng Leung or "crazy wong". WSL is a legend for his Wing Chun fighting skill /mastery and his countless wins in beimo matches . He was considered by many to be the king of street fighting over there in Hong kong in his prime.

He is world reknown in WC Gung fu circles . He was senior to both William cheung and Bruce Lee as well as Hawkins Chueng in Yip Mans Wing Chun Gung fu clan .

Bruce Lee and many of WSl juniors looked up to him for his fighting skill.

In fact Bruce Lee regarded WSL to him as the man he wanted to immulate in seattle .


Hope that helps .

RIP WSL.


RF-

[shaun]

did wong sifu cross train in other martial arts?
like did he learn ground combat?

[shaun]

oh sorry, one more thing

whats a beimo match?

[chen zhen]

From what I know about WSL, he had already 20 years of experience in Choy Lay Fut, Bak Mei and Dragon style kung fu when he met Yip Man. So yes, he knew some other styles than WC

[vingtsunstudent]

sorry chen zhen
but wong sifu didn't know those styles he was a ving tsun man and that is all. he did however have a love for boxing before starting wing chun.
the only thing he seemed to know about the ground is that that is where his opponents finished up.
vts

[chen zhen]

Well, then sorry to you vingtsunstudent!:D
Maybe it's not the same man we're talking about. I read it in a recent post on the Wing Chun forum that he (WSL) studied those styles before going to WC.
I can post the link to it here at another time.

[chen zhen]

It was Leung Sheung Leung that I referred to. I mistaked the names.They just look kinda similar on text.
Sorry for bringing it off-topic:p

[planetwc]

You are thinking of Leung Sheung, Yip Man's first student in Hong Kong.

Wong Shun Leung had a background in Boxing. It took a beat down from Yip Bo Ching to convert him to the Wing Chun style.
From there it was all cake. :)



Originally posted by chen zhen
From what I know about WSL, he had already 20 years of experience in Choy Lay Fut, Bak Mei and Dragon style kung fu when he met Yip Man. So yes, he knew some other styles than WC

[chen zhen]

Alright, relax, I have already corrected myself.:D

[TenTigers]

Hung-Ga does make use of vocalizations, but nothing anywhere near Bruce Lee's screaming chicken. If you watch Green Hornet, he was already utilizing intense 'kiais'-for lack of a better term. Brenadan Lai-a Praying Mantis Sifu also has used the indentical sounds. You will see this in the video with Him,Doc Fai-Wong, Chan Pui, and Adam Hsu. His mannerisms, facial gestures, glares, etc all come from Chinese Opera, specifically the arched eyebrows and wide eyes and head snap-a standard. I had a friend who does opera and there is a name for that particular "face". It is taught and practiced. Even Jet Lei does it, as wu-shu performers are taught it to appear more fierce. Also, Jeet Kuen is a Jing-Mo set adapted into the Eagle Claw curriculum,as Lau Fat-Mang was an instructor at Jing-Mo.

[YungChun]

Found some of the cat-calls to be a natural expression of emotion, I could relate in that context - emotional content. I would be surprised if he never did it in his off camera fighting - although in training his students I could see him leaving it out.

Dan Inosanto in his interviews over the years remarked that Bruce wanted to be the best - to be the best he had to first be better than his Wing Chun seniors like WSL, who he always thought of as 'one of the best'. Bruce was kicked out of Yip's school despite the fact that Yip liked Bruce - later Bruce would train with WSL - the eldest brother in Yip's school (Dai Si Hing). He never had the chance to get up to advanced level training in WC according to WSL. Without the complete system - according to Dan he had to 'fill in the gaps' - this meant using whatever he could from wherever. Although he combed through loads of martial material he advised (absorb what is useful) and he did advise a daily reduction of content.

Ultimately, he applied WC concepts to his study - use of Centerline, economy of motion, application of Wing Chun structure and he filled in the gaps with what he found useful. Sadly he died before his JKD could be fully tested to see if it had allowed him to reach his goal of being the best in the family.

[cha kuen]

WSL got beat down by that Yip Bo Ching guy? wow

-cha kuen
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=taichimaster06&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25

[sunstylin]

you may call me Sean and the Government pays for my private lessons with L.T ( Leung Ting ), you know who that is since your from Newcastle!!! That is all I can say but if your up for some friendly chi sao then I can perhaps give you a number to call and you can find out why I'm such a ****y and arrogant little *******. LOL :cool:
Its not only skill but what you know or who you know , and how you know them in todays society. Patrick.:cool:

[vingtsunstudent]

''you may call me Sean and the Government pays for my private lessons with L.T ( Leung Ting )''
so when did leung ting move to australia? and what do you mean that the gov. pays? what are you a dole bludger.
please don't tell me your some sort of special agent, because if you are you forgot to add that to all your other accomplishments on your profile.
you're full of it, look at the other thing you typed, call me sean and sign it patrick(so which one is it or is that like your secret government alias)
all you've done you gutless little ***** since you first appeared on these forums is bad mouth people and make challenges.
like i said if you want to know about me and whether i have anything go find barry's schools in sydney and try your luck.
then if you still wish to find me and try my chi sao just holla. i'm not wasting my time and effort on some bogas phone no. or travelling all the way to sydney on a wanker like you.
until then shut the fuk up with all your bs, besides that if you are so knowledgable on these wing chun matters then how come we never see you posting and offering your undoubted amount of knowledge on this stystem on the wing chun forum, surely a great mind like yours, who is having private lessons with the grandmaster himself, must have a vast knowledge of the finer technicalities that are discussed over there and should be able to set us all on the right path,.
so again i ask which one are you full of $hit or full of $hit?
get a life and grow up little boy.
vts