Where is video? John Marsh x Kung Fu guy challenge match

[truewrestler]

There was a challenge put on this board awhile back for some large amount. Pro fighter John Marsh fought some guy and the fight was video taped and put online.

Does anyone have that fight or a link to it?

Thanks

[truewrestler]

I'm sorry, the magic word = please

[Mojo]

I think it was Knifefighter who posted the link. If I see him at class tonight I'll ask him to repost the link.

[truewrestler]

great, I'm searching for it but I haven't been having any luck

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i think i still have it at home. if you dont find it by tonight ill setup a temp ftp for ya real quick.

[truewrestler]

or if you can email it to me

dan@thesoftedge.com

i was hoping it was already hosted online though

[ewallace]

Is that the one with J. Marsh against some san soo guy GDA?

[truewrestler]

yep, fight lasted about a minute before Marsh tore his shoulder with an Americana

[Royal Dragon]

I have no problem putting it up on my site (if it will help bring me more traffic:p )

[truewrestler]

fine by me :)

[Royal Dragon]

Oops, I forgot one small detail, didn't I?

[truewrestler]

thanks Royal

[Royal Dragon]

:D

[SifuAbel]

That fight was Gay!!!

The kung fu "master" in this fight sucked coconuts through a straw. It proves nothing, it means nothing, except that a (much)larger pro fighter can easily beat a (much)weaker mediocre(at best)one. Standing together marsh looked twice as heavy than the KFSS guy and younger too. I hear Kurt Belleman is a rather large and agressive KFSS man, I rather see him in a video. Lets see how well he does against Marsh. I bet the outcome won't be ecactly the same.

It would be the same if I made a video of me beating up an illtrained grappler whom was weaker than me. Would it be fair? Would it prove anything? NO!

[gfhegel21]

Well, it proved that he was "poorly trained." Everybody knew he was lighter. He just thought his san soo would be an equalizer. And he is considered legit in his art.

[NorthernMantis]

Oooh I wanna see. I wanna see. Are you guys sending it by mail? Mine's is shaolin96@hotmail.com

[Knifefighter]

I'm not sure if the video is still posted on the net. You might try Sherdog's site.

As far as the fight proving anything, I think most people realize that John was younger, stronger, and bigger than his esteemed opponent. I don't think anyone here is saying that this proves that grappling is better than kung fu. As a matter of fact, from the BJJ side of the fight, it never was about proving anything. It was just about doing another fight and having the highest probability of coming away with a payday.

It did end up proving something, though……………..

What is did prove is the fallacy of thinking you know your skills when you never really test them.

To illustrate my point, let me tell you the story of John's fight. Originally, someone else was going to fight the "kung fu master" in question. However, since $5,000. was on the line and the kung fu camp had said they would fight anyone, John was approached about doing the fight. The BJJ camp knew that John was the best choice to ensure victory. This is because John trained and fought competitively against other fighters, including the original person who was going to fight the kung fu man. John was far from the highest ranking, being only a purple belt in BJJ at the time. However, the BJJ camp knew John was their best choice based on the objective data, even though he was not the most experienced or the highest ranking, or even the biggest.

The kung fu side, on the other hand, had no way to objectively determine who was their best fighter. They didn't regularly test their skills in competitions, or even in training against 100% resisting opponents. Because of this, the only way they had to judge who was the "best" was by who was the highest ranking, knew the most techniques, could beat everyone in "tag/point fighting" practice sessions, and who could perform his techniques with the best form. Based on this, the "kung fu master" was considered to be their best choice, although they had several practitioners who were John's size or bigger. As a matter of fact, one of the gentlemen from their school is shown in the background during the fight. At about 6'6" and 290 lbs., he dwarfed John. The kung fu school assumed he was not as good a choice as the smaller "master."

The BJJ side had multiple objective proofs for John being the best choice for the fight. Unfortunately, for the kung fu school, they had to make their choice based on subjective criteria, since they never actually used their "deadly" techniques at 100% against 100% resisting opponents.

[Knifefighter]

Truewrestler:
If you don't get a hold of the tape, you're actually not missing that much. There's nothing extraordinary about the fight. It's pretty textbook BJJ. But, just in case you don't get to see it, here's a quick description. The two fighters traded leg kicks at the same time, with John coming in, clinching and bringing it to the ground. On the way down, the kung fu guy tried the classic "head lock hold" which John broke with a frame, moving into side control position. The kung fu guy attempted several eye gouges which John countered by burying his head and using hand control from underneath the head. From here, John maintained side control while landing the occasional punch to the face. This set up the Americana nicely, as John continued to maintain hand control from under the head. Once he brought in the other hand for the figure 4, all he had to do was move the arm from behind the head to finish with the Americana. I do have to say that finish was pretty nasty, as the arm snapped twice.

[Mojo]

If only KungFu San Soo taught Dim Mak, then we would have seen a much different outcome.












hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha !!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by Knifefighter

It did end up proving something, though……………..

What is did prove is the fallacy of thinking you know your skills when you never really test them.



Fair enough, You'll get no arguement from me on this point.
What I think gets people in a huff about this fight is that this guy is being called a kung fu master in general. When in fact this guy comes from KFSS and they are known, for the most part, NOT to participate in contact tests, sparring etc. And, he wasn't very good to boot. It a generalization most don't appreciate.

This casts a bad light on those that do use contact in their practice.

As far as the description let me add that both traded kicks in the beginning, BUT.

Marsh's kick was used as a distraction in order to get to the shoot. While the other guy was doing a kick just to do a kick. This shows the "point" mentality behind his approach. This is something a contact fighter, striker or otherwise, would not do. A kick as a primary attack has to be solid , accurate, usefull, and cannot be used as a singular movement. They guys kick was his first and most costly mistake.

As strikers go, he failed miserably. He broke the cardibnal rule by throwing a technique that left his open and stationed. Stiking and grapppling are diametrically opposite in their ends. Where strikers strive to control and maintain in a perimeter keeping centers apart, while grapplers strive to join centers either by breaching or absorbing.


It was just bad.

[TaoBoy]

Can someone please explain the Americana?

[truewrestler]

here is the Americana, the technique on this page might change occasionally though

http://www.jiu-jitsu.net/techniques/valetudo/

[truewrestler]

I've already seen the video..... right after the fight happened. I just wanted to show someone else.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

****it . . i forgot all about it.

ill call my girlfriend and make her turn on the puter later today so i can get into my machine and see if it's there.

[NorthernMantis]

Hey where can I see this fight?

[truewrestler]

someone says they have it another says he can host it so hopefully we'll be in business soon =)

[Tigerstyle]

I would just like to add that I'm proud of Knifefighter and SifuAbel for their civil, level-headed exchange ;) . Both of you brought up some great points!

(I thought I was on the wrong message board for a second :p )

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by SifuAbel


What I think gets people in a huff about this fight is that this guy is being called a kung fu master in general.


Marsh's kick was used as a distraction in order to get to the shoot. While the other guy was doing a kick just to do a kick.

As far as the guy being a "master", I don't know. What I do know is that all of the guys at the KFSS school, several of whom were in law enforcement and/or bouncers, swore that this guy was the schizznet.

The kicks that both fighters threw were actually to set up strikes. The kung fu man was planning to follow with eye gouges and John, a strong boxer, was planning to follow with a combination of punches. The takedown was actually somewhat incidental to the situation. Since the distance was bridged when both fighters simultaneously exchanged kicks, the natural follow up for John was to take the fight down to the ground.

As far as the kung fu man's kick being pretty crappy, I think that just shows that when you fight for real, a lot of your "good" technique is lost. Sometimes you don't hit your stride until you have traded a few. As a matter of fact, John's kick sure wasn't textbook. However, since John had fought and practiced under realistic conditions in the past, the fact that things did not go as planned did not affect him negatively. He just moved to another natural follow-up and kept working his game.

[BeiKongHui]

What kind of training do the Kung Fu San Soo guys do anyway? For that matter what is Kung Fu San Soo? That was such a basic submission Marsh used on him too, it just amazes me that anyone would go to a match/game/challenge in ANY sport without becoming familiar with their opponent's skills, strengths & weaknesses. Plus if this was baseball it'd be like a 3rd tier minor team from BFE playing a MLB club but not bothering to practice up for the match because you can beat all your minor league opponents.
Man, I bet Marsh didn't even break a sweat.

[Ryu]

If it's possible could someone send it to me?

Ryu

[DMannis]

Originally posted by gfhegel21
Well, it proved that he was "poorly trained." Everybody knew he was lighter. He just thought his san soo would be an equalizer. And he is considered legit in his art.
Actually Sean Scott is not considered "Legit" in his art. None of the mainstream teachers in the art could tell you who he is if you asked them. Sean Scott apparently had only trained in the art for less than FOUR years at the time of the "Challenge" he made. It has been over a year now and really more is made of what happened than should have been. Many were telling him not to do it but he still did anyways.

[Braden]

FWIW, "Kungfu San Soo" isn't commonly considered to be a chinese martial art / style of kungfu. It's history was discussed a bit on the last couple pages of http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=195612#post195612 for anyone interested.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by DMannis

Actually Sean Scott is not considered "Legit" in his art. None of the mainstream teachers in the art could tell you who he is if you asked them. Sean Scott apparently had only trained in the art for less than FOUR years at the time of the "Challenge" he made. It has been over a year now and really more is made of what happened than should have been. Many were telling him not to do it but he still did anyways.

After the fight, many supposed "legit" San Soo teachers were giving Sean a hard time about not being a true representative of the art. I have to admit to having a few laughing fits after hearing about how some of these guys thought they would have an easy time with John.

Negotiations were under way to have one of these other "legit" instructors fight John. I believe the "legit" instructors claimed they couldn't come up with the $5,000.00 for this. Sean's backers offered to put up the money. However, the "legit" instructors ended up declining to fight John.

[KC Elbows]

Hey, I'm sure the guy learned a lot from the loss, and he had the cojones to show, so I'm not gonna dis him for that.

Now if he made big claims beforehand, that's silly, but for losing? What loss is there in learning that you need to work harder and smarter?

[ewallace]

Take note that the eye gouge against a grappler is not as effective as previously thought by some.

[KC Elbows]

Or the guy is not good at eye gouges.:p :D :rolleyes:

That's OK, there's still the dim mak.

[Xebsball]

dude, always wear gogles when going against san soo

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i got the clip ... you wanna give me your email addy rd or do you just want me to put it up?

[ewallace]

put it up bro. My boxes are tapped.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

fight (http://users.1st.net/abaddon/FIGHT1-A.AVI)

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

sh it i thought for sure it had sound . .. ill look to see if i have a better copy when i get home.

[Braden]

That's not Marsh and San Soo guy.

Or I'm very confused.

Which wouldn't be that surprising, now that I think of it; but still.

[Braden]

If that was a joke, you should have put up Unknown Russian Soldier from Stile or something though. Anything from Stile, really. Maybe that Russian dancer kicking the little kid in the head. That one's pretty funny.

[Braden]

The circus bear eating the little girl, renamed 'Marsh vs San Soo Guy' would have been hilarious.

All due respect to the aforementioned girl.

[KC Elbows]

Whichever fight that is, against a guy that much bigger than me, I'd hope I'd cover my face. He charged in and there were no hands to even try to stop him.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

well . . i dont know these people's names.

someone posted this clip a long time ago as a kf vs. bjj challange match. the dude lost in an arm breaking technique of some type so i thought that's what you guys were talking about. at least i made the effort to try and do something nice so fu ck off.

[Braden]

:eek:



:p

I think that's just two guys beating on each other. Around here, everything gets called kungfu vs bjj.

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by Knifefighter


....... swore that this guy was the schizznet.

[He was shizznit alright, I don't know about "The"]

The kicks that both fighters threw were actually to set up strikes. The kung fu man was planning to follow with eye gouges....

[You're kidding, right?
Not the eye gouge thing again?!?! When will this stupidity end? WADR, no real kung fu man is going to depend on this as the totality of his strategy. Even if he did try to use the eye gouge defense(LOL!) he didn't set it up in any way that it would work. The set up you gave for marsh sounds more like what the kung fu guy should've been aiming for, if he was worth anything.]


As far as the kung fu man's kick being pretty crappy, I think that just shows that when you fight for real, a lot of your "good" technique is lost. Sometimes you don't hit your stride until you have traded a few. ....

[Nope, that kick didn't even qualify as a warm up to the better stuff. It looked more like a dog raising his leg to pee. At least the dog is still standing at the end of his tinkle. Come on KF, you know a warm up should at least have better form than that. I have eight years olds that have better form than that. It may not be the best but it doesn't have to be the worst.]

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

want gore .. .fine ... . here's some fu cking gore. (http://users.1st.net/abaddon/bikerguts.asf)

[Braden]

:(

[txwingchun]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
want gore .. .fine ... . here's some fu cking gore. (http://users.1st.net/abaddon/bikerguts.asf)

Now is it me or does that video arouse anyone else?

[truewrestler]

GunnedDownAtrocity, thanks but that's not it

the fight we are talking about lasted around 1 minute

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

ha . ... i thought more than one person was bi tching about the wrong video. i have a bad habit of not reading the name of the poster. i was goin off on several people in my head braden, not just you.

im a bit irritablle and i thought everyone was yelling at me.

[Braden]

No offense taken, GDA. I thought the whole thing was kind of funny, actually.

[SifuAbel]

Now that we are on the subject of pathetic mismatched fights, that video named fight.avi was also VERY sad. The skinny guy was all over the place looking like a chicken with his head cut off. The other guy , although better in his usage, was 2" from a coronary. I can't believe this is what passes for martail arts these days. Its no wonder why the NHB camps look down on us.

[truewrestler]

i guess no one has it? :(

[Xebsball]

I think i have it somewhere on my pc.
It was 30mb or something, so it would be a ***** for me to upload (56k).

It was big cos it wasnt compressed at all, ill see if i find it and compress it than i can upload, it should be around 5mb or something than.

[Xebsball]

Ok got it, runs 1:01
Kung fu guy on it sucks imho, this fight is quite poor.

It actually is an AVI of 34mb, was put on the net on zip format, being 21mb i think.

With my expertise i compressed its audio to Mpeg3 and video to Mpeg4, coming up with an ASF file of 2.14mb. Ill upload it later.

[SifuAbel]

For some reason I have trouble with ASF. Can you recommend a work-around? My windows media player won't run them.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

you might just need to update your codecs. go to http://www.divx.com/ and download divix 5.0.

[SevenStar]

holy shiznit....That biker was messed up.

[SifuAbel]

thanks

So I use the divx player to play asf instead WMP?

[NorthernMantis]

Oh man now I understand why mma make fun of us. It's people like that who make us look bad. It was all over once he hit the ground. :o :( :o

The only thing that I saw was the large guy use his weight as advantage.

Hey does anyone know if the other fight is worse than this?

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

you can, but the codecs install into windows media too. i just use the divix player when i cant get certain avi files to play.

are you able to view asfs now?

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

sh it . .. i can't remember for sure but i think older versions of wmp don't play asfs. it was asfs or wmv files. if that's the case the divix player should work or you could always update your wmp.

[Xebsball]

yo dudes, i aint got it up yet but will soon.
So try it in an hour from now.
If it doesnt work, i can only try again 7 days from now.

About the asfs, wmvs... there is a (microsoft i think) codecs package you can download, if i come across it i post the url.

When the movie is up it will be at:
http://thugdo.vila.bol.com.br/dild.asf

[Xebsball]

Its up, but aparently the server tells me its full?!? like there were too many people trying to get it or somethig...

The previous will redirect you to this, so you can go with this one straight:

http://thugdo.vilabol.uol.com.br/dild.asf
http://thugdo.vilabol.uol.com.br/index.html

[NorthernMantis]

"Não conseguiu entrar na página?"

That's all I get. Thanks anyway Xebs.

[The Willow Sword]

you know,,this is a prime example of how screwed up we are. the laws of physics dictates that if something of lesser mass and weight goes up against something of greater mass and weight, the outcome will be that the greater mass and weight will over come the lesser mass and weight. the bigger guy was just throwing his weight around. no real technique at all. but hey who really uses "good "technique in a fight? the other guy was about as pathetic as i was against reemul. lets reflect on the words of the venerable master Ueshiba Moerhei(founder of ki-aikido)
" noone can take away my strength as i do not use it, the best technique is to AVOID combat".

MAny Respects,,,The Willow Sword

[truewrestler]

i can't get to the file

guys complaining about weight.... stop. If you are talking about John Marsh, the guy is just good. If a top lightweight profighter had taken this fight they would have finished it just as quick.

[NorthernMantis]

Not really about the waight but what really irked me was so called kung fu guy. Now I understand why alot of mma make fun of us. after seeing that I don't blame you.

[truewrestler]

I understand man but people need to understand that fights like the one between John Marsh and the Kung Fu guy occur thousands of times around the word in events like the UFC. How is some guy who has never trainned for MMA going to defeat a top MMA fighter in a one on one fight? It just isn't going to happen very often even if the other guy is a great striker.

[truewrestler]

to the top

[Xebsball]

Ok kids, that host think he can fool me.
That sucka musta blocked vid files... asf, mpg, avi...
Bastages

I renamed to *****.ast
try now, its working for me here.
Once youre done dowloading rename the extension to .asf so you can watch it.

Go here for the new link:
http://thugdo.vilabol.uol.com.br/index.html

Lemme know if its working
Peace

[Xebsball]

LOL ***** is that singer Dido with an extra L in the middle.

[truewrestler]

lol, good catch man

downloading now..........

thank you!!! finally got it :)

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

ha . . . i had that one too. i gave up after my first faliure though.

[truewrestler]

thanks anyway GDA

better than "*****" minus the "O"

[truewrestler]

those *s = dild0

to the top!

[truewrestler]

ttt

[Phrost]

I've also put up the video on www.McDojo.com

There's a link to it on the front page "MMA vs Kung Fu" in the Top 5 Downloads section.

[TaoBoy]

Xebsball - downloaded the file but it only played about 3 seconds. The file was 94k. Doesn't seem right. Now downloading from McDojo - 20.8Mb!! Waiting...waiting...

[I.M. Toast]

Normally, I like to se a good butt-whoopin', but, gosh, it wasn't even long enough to be enjoyable.
Yes, the "Kung Fu" guy had his lunch eaten. Assuming that you were in his place, what would you have done once you hit the ground? I notice that he had his left arm free, which he used seemingly in an attempt to turn the MMA guys head to break his lock. Could he not have used it to hit the MMa guys flank, back of the neck, or maybe reach down and tried a groin strike/grab? (His arms are a little short...)

Of course, hindsight is 20/20. As for me, I would have cried and begged for my mommy.

I.M. Toast

[Xebsball]

Dunno dude, you musta got some error during download.
Its supposed to be 2.14mb and its 1:01 total run time.
Try downloading it again or something.