Weight Lifting

[qeySuS]

I have a question for veteran MA ppl. I am interested in starting to incorporate weight lifting into my training and i was wondering about what methods have proved themselves for MA and not body building. Is it better to take lighter weights many times, or heavy weights and only do a few reps. I understand that taking heavy weights only a few times does do for more weight gaining and muscle growth. But does that translate itself to muscle endurance and muscle strength? Please do let me know what has been best for you.

[Strangelove]

From what I know

Actually heavy weights with little sets and reps build alot of strenght. Muscles resistance is with low weights but with alot of repetitions.


For example if I want to maximize strenght gaining , I will lift very heavy weights for 6-10 reps for a few sets.

if I want to gain strenghts and lean muscles mass , I go heavy weight for 10-14 for 3 sets


and to gain muscles resistance you do a few sets with many reps [20+] using medium/low weights.

[jediman]

I suggest doing low weight, high rep sets. You have two types of muscle fiber: slow twitch and fast twitch. For most martial arts, fast twitch is what you will utilize. However, I recommend you have a good muscle mass base before you begin training specifically for a MA or sport. So, do several months of basic weight training before you start to customize a work out. You can find countless work outs in magazines and on the web, so look for something that fit's your body type and life style, start slow and be careful. Good luck

[Paul DiMarino]

I've done a lot of research and testing on the subject, and I've had the best results by far with the principles of a man named Pavel Tsatsouline. He has a discussion forum at <A HREF="http://www.dragondoor.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.dragondoor.com</A>

He advocates basing your routine off two lifts, and training those two lifts Monday-Friday by doing 2 sets of 5. This negates the need for recovery since fatigue is low and you don't tear down much muscle fiber (as you would in a higher volume or higher rep routine), and it allows you to gain amazing stregth while keeping a stable body weight. It's pretty much a powerlifters routine. (ie the 132 lbs guys that squat 700+ lbs) Although muscle endurance isn't drectly trained, the best thing for that is to a activity-specific exercise. In other words, do your forms, shadowbox, spar, etc.

The two lifts he advocates are the deadlift and the sidepress. Also, you never train to failure. That's a body building thing. You should use a weight that you could do another 2 good form reps with. Personally, I rotate 3 exercises in two week cycles, to keep my body guessing and even out strength gain. My routine looks like this:

Cycle 1 (2 weeks M-F)
Sumo Deadlift 2x5
Side Press 2x5
Weighted Pull-ups 2x5

Cycle 2 (2 weeks M-F)
Deadlift 2x5
Bench Press 2x5
Weighted Chin-ups 2x5

Cycle 3 (2 weeks M-F)
Power Cleans 5x2 (demanding lift, so lowered reps)
Push Press 2x5
Weighted Pull-ups 2x5

Cycle 4 (2 weeks M-F)
Squat 2x5
Incline Press 2x5
Weighted Chin-ups 2x5

This whole thing only takes 20-35 minutes, I'm not sore or fatigued at all, and my stretgth has skyrocketted while my body weight has stayed about the same. (+/- 5 lbs) I'd recommend getting his weight training book, "Power to the People" and his stretching book and ab training books are top notch as well. He was a strength trainer for Russian athletes and military, so a lot of his methods are different than ours, but everyone knows that Russia was light years ahead of us in these fields anyway.

[tricky-fist]

For muscle endurance, I would have to recommend the exercises Matt Furey developed from studying with Karl Gotch. You can find his book and videos on the website that Paul mentioned in the previous post. His exercises are aimed at creating “functional� strength through a large range of motion, and body weight is utilized instead of free weights. Trust me on this one, my Sifu makes us do similar exercises – although in a smaller range of motion – and you will not believe the results… your legs will feel like they’re made of oak.

I’ve found that weight lifting is looked down upon by a lot of Chinese martial artists… they say it will slow you down, make you less flexible ect., which usually triggers my BS alarm. The problem is that very specific principles have been expounded over the years to the point where they become generalizations. For example, standing around doing bicep curls is pretty useless in terms of what we – as martial artists – want to train. You want total body strength, endurance and flexibility… and much of that is based upon training where most of the fighting power in your body comes from: your trunk. That means strong abs, lower back, and the legs. Consequently, some of the best exercises you can do – from what I’ve experienced personally – involve squats, dead-lifts, good-mornings, lunges, ect…. Much of this can be done without weights, but resistance can help if you do it properly. I would recommend checking out <A HREF="http://www.stadion.com/" TARGET="_blank">http://www.stadion.com/</A> if you want a good stretching program to supplement your weight program (which I strongly recommend). Kurtz’s stuff is great.

One last thing that always seems to get left out, proper deep breathing and what Buddhists call “mindfulness� are important aspects of any exercise program, especially strength building exercises. It may sound odd, but I would recommend looking into some basic yoga or chi-gong exercises to supplement any strength program.

Jeez, that was a mouthful on my part. Just some ideas brother,

Respects
TF

" I'll play it first, then tell you what it is later..."
- Miles Davis

[Braden]

qeySuS - there's probably as many different specific answers to your question as there are weight-lifters. The best thing you can do is buy yourself a good book and work through it. (Well... getting a good trainer would be better, but probably less practical for you).

I recommend "Getting Stronger" by Bill Pearl. It's an old classic, but has lots of great info including progressive programs to build you up from a beginner's routine to one designed for someone who is allready in shape, specific programs for various sports, and a big compendium of exercises. If you're serious, to compensate for the weak points in this book, you might also want to pick up a book on stretching and a book on plyometrics.

Some tips I can offer:

Warm-up. Especially if you get into advanced exercises, your body simply cannot go from watching Seinfeld to exercising; you'll hurt yourself. A half-assed warm-up specific to the exercise you're about to do takes all of 30 seconds, and even that will make a huge difference.

Stretch. Stretches are a good warm-up and cool-down themselves: this saves time. Extend to point of tension, pause, extend beyond point of tension, pause, release. Repeat. Repeat. If you get real pain, stop immediately.

Breath properly, move slowly. A slower exercise is a better exercise, for weight-lifting. Your breathing should follow the movements. In general, you should inhale during the contraction (ie. while pushing up during a benchpress).

Work the negative reps. A negative rep is the opposite of what I just described (eg. lowering the weight towards your chest in a benchpress). There are some great negative rep exercises you can do with a partner. But even alone, you should NOT allow gravity to do the negative rep. Especially as a martial artist, the strength gains you can make here are extremely important.

Exercise regularly and moderately rather than irregularly and strenuously. At bare minimum, have a day of rest for a day of work. Actual cellular changes require the rest period to occur. The work is only a signal to tell your body to do them.

Focus on the muscle group. The muscle you are working should generate ALL of the movement. The rest of your body should be relaxed. Hardly anyone does this, because it's much more difficult and you end up only being able to do 1/10th the reps you could do while cheating; plus it takes some practice. But it saves time and increases gains.

Make sure you do cardiovascular work. As a martial artist, you've probably got this allready. If you don't, you can incorporate it pretty easily. Hitting the heavy bag is an incredible CV exercise that is great for MAs and can also double as plyometrics. Skipping is another classic, and great for lower body plyometrics. Rowing, running, biking...

Plyometrics... in case you haven't encountered them yet. They are how you work your fast-twitch muscles in order to exercise crisp, explosive strength. Contrary to popular belief, doing high-rep, low-weight exercises does NOT hit your fast-twitch. However, plyometrics are definitely one of the key exercise for a martial artist interested in this kind of training. The basic model for a plyometric is compression followed by a single, explosive movement. For example, the classic upper-body plyometric is the explosive push-up. Instead of "pushing" up, you "pounce" up; exploding your palms against the ground to causes your body to bounce up. Plyometrics tend to be hard on the tendons, so it's best to be in relatively good shape before starting them. It's also good to start easy. For example, the "pounce-up" exercise can be done standing upright and pouncing off a wall (try going up on the balls of your feet during the pounce). You can extend your distance from the wall as you get better, and then transition onto the floor. The classic lowerbody plyometric is stepping off a chair and then doing an explosive pounce/jump as soon as you hit the floor. Skipping and bagwork done right can be good plyometrics.

Once you get into it, you'll want to look at some more advanced methods to save you time and incrwase your gains. Supersetting is when, instead of resting between sets, you work an opposing muscle. With some creativity, you can set up a whole routine of supersets so that you hardly ever rest (or take very short rests). This gets VERY difficult, but can save you alot of time, and also include some CV work into your weightlifting (trust me, your heart will pound). You'll also DEFINITELY want to set up different routines to do on different days. At the very least, this minimizes your boredom. Doing an upperbody one day, a lowerbody the next day, then taking a day (or two) of rest, for example, isn't bad. It all depends on how much time you want to put in.

The more important suggestion I can offer is to listen to your body. It's different than anyone elses, as are your goals, so your ideal workout is going to be unique. Your body is great at telling you what it wants when you get in the habit of listening though. Don't workout mechanistically. Watch for changes in your body. Watch for changes in your performance. I guarantee you'll find that "Perfect Workout A" won't address one of your concerns, and you'll have to modify it. Continually modify your workout to address your needs and to stave off boredom and mechanistic repetition.

[Paul DiMarino]

Braden,

I'm glad you like Fury's stuff. There are a lot of extremely good bodyweight program's on the web for free too. Check out this site:

<A HREF="http://www.webfects.com/hea/routine.htm#" TARGET="_blank">http://www.webfects.com/hea/routine.htm#</A>

The guy that runs it is top notch and has no problem answering any questions for you. I actually do a 4 week bodyweight/high rep cycle after I've done my other 4 weight training cycles. I still Bridge 3x/week though. That is without a doubt the most beneficial exercise that I got from Fury's book. The hindu push-ups were too easy for me, and I had a major knee injury before, so I can only do about 200 squats and then have my knee kill for 5 days after. :(

[crumble]

I also suggest that if you add weight training to your work out, it should be for strength - low reps, high weights.

There is a large strength component to endurance. If you train for strength you _will_ see benefits in your endurance. But the reverse cannot be said.

Paul's comments are _very_ interesting! I've been working on ways to minimize fatigue but still feel like I've gotten a complete workout... Mostly I've been focusing on maximizing flexibility (which suffers when muscles are fatigued or in repair mode). I'm printing that info out right now... Thanks Paul!

[crumble]

Paul,

A question for you: do you expect the workout you described to plateau after a while?

It seems like the routine would be great for maximizing the neurological activation of the muscles, but not necessary build new mass. Is that correct?

I guess what I'm asking is: what triggers the growth of new muscle bundles? I seem to recall that new growth is only triggered by "micro-tears" which would also cause soreness and fatigue.

Thanks in advance!

(Oh, and what's a push press and sumo deadlift???)

[tricky-fist]

Paul,

Good stuff. Someone - probably you - posted that URL a couple of months ago, and I've used it ever since as the framework for my strength workouts. I encourage others on the Forum to try it out!

Respects,
TF

" I'll play it first, then tell you what it is later..."
- Miles Davis

[Paul DiMarino]

Crumble,

There are two main types of hypertrophy that a muscle can go through:

1) Sarcoplasmic - this is basically what training to failure will bring about. Muscle fibers are torn down, and when they heal a gel like filler grows around the new fibers.

2) Myofabrill <sp?> - this is an increase in size and stregth of existing muscle fibers themeselves. This is not as overt as sarcoplasmic, and you're appearence doesn't change by much. However, this does explain why some of those Olympic powerlifters who definately don't have the body of a greek god can heft poundages that make Mr. Universe's knees give out just thinking about it.

Training with the 2x5/5x2 method will premote the latter type of hypertrophy as long as you don't train to failure. ALWAYS rack the weight at least 2 reps prior to failure. After training like this for a month, you'll notice a huge difference in energy levels and strength. It may seem like 2x5 isn't much, but it's more than enough to get the job done.

Any plateau can be taken care of by periodization schemes. Pavel himself advocates using a wave or progressive step scheme to avoid any plataeuing. The wave scheme looks like this:

Lets say it's for the deadlift...

Day 1 225x5 220x5
Day 2 230x5 225x5
Day 3 235x5 230x5
Day 4 240x5 235x5
Day 5 230x5 225x5 etc...

A step cycle would look more like this:

Day 1 225x5 215x5
Day 2 230x5 220x5
Day 3 235x5 225x5
Day 4 240x5 230x5
Day 5 240x5 230x5
Day 6 245x5 235x5
Day 7 250x5 240x5
Day 8 255x5 245x5
Day 9 260x5 250x5
Day 10 265x3 255x5

Start new cycle...


Day 1 235x5 220x5
Day 2 240x5 225x5
Day 3 245x5 230x5
Day 4 245x5 235x5
Day 5 255x5 240x5
Day 6 255x5 245x5
Day 7 260x5 245x5
Day 8 265x5 250x5
Day 9 270x5 255x5
Day 10 275x3 260x5 (you just added 10 lbs to your previous max in only 2 weeks!)

I hope that was easy enough to understand. Besides progression schemes, you can mix up sets and reps to break through plateau's. You can do 5 sets of doubles, 3 sets of triples, 7 sets of singles, etc. Pavel goes into great detail about these methods and a lot more in his book Power to the People. It's $40, but the best buy on strength training I've ever had. (and I've made plenty) BTW, you are right about the nerological benefits... By hefting heavy poundages regularly, you neurological recruitment of muscle fibers becomes greater and a lot more efficient.

[mantis108]

Good points, gentlemen.

Hindu Push Ups is a great Funtional Strength building exercise for martial arts. In essence, it is a variation of the classic Sun Salutation sequence found in Yoga. If you find the version too easy try the following:

start from a incline plank position the arms wilder than the shoulder. The wilder the grip the harder you work on the chest. Arms straight. Legs apart and wider than the shoudlers as well.

Bent the arms and lower just about 6 inches off the floor. Do not touch the floor. This is the start position

Bring the left leg up without move other body parts. make it as high as possible and turn your head to the left and look over your left shoulder. This helps to elimination blind sport. Look at the left foot, breath in. Lower the leg and return to the start position.

Repeat to the right side.

Then from there you push forward but not getting up. Now the hands are close to the rid cage. Push back with the arms and with buttocks high in the air like the inverted v. Lower back to the start and go into cobra. Very important that you arch up slowly. Push back into inverted v again. From there back into a inclined plank as in the begining of the exercise. That's 1.

Do 2 and then rest 30 sec. Pyrimad 2 - 4 -6 - 8 - 12 with wide grip and Lower form 12 to 2 with Narrow grip which works on the triceps more. If you wants the benefit of working the forearms also spread the fingers wide apart as well.

I will echo the point about paying attention and have intent during these type of exercise. By adding the details, you will find a difference. BTW, the workout philosophy of Frank Shamrock sounds quit Yogic which is about balanced approach.

Just a thought.

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[Rolling Elbow]

I am getting soo tired of my standard high rep monotonous workout, i was thinking i should try the failure Navy Seals workouts..what i am after is stamina and getting solid muscle. I could care less about the size of it..I want to be as ripped, fast, and powerful as those crazy Choy Lay Fut guys you see in the demos.

Any suggestions or comments. A high five to he who can come up with the best program. I don't care about weights, i already do chin ups and push-ups anyway..

P.S- Tricky Fist, check yer mail.

Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..

[qeySuS]

ok thanks for all the advice and i got a lot of info here on muscles and so on :) But the one i intend on using is the one Paul DiMarino posted. I really liked the sounds of it, plus the fact that it doesnt involve a lot of weightlifting (none at all that i could see) fascinates me since i really dont like going to a public gym and working out. So if i could get access to the Jiu Jitsu GYM during the day i could do these excersices in private while doing some forms and other things alongside with the practicing.

[Black Jack]

As long as you are streching and working on a full range of motion in your lifts weighttraining is one of the best things a person can do for themselves.

I have been working out hard since I was a teenager with a few short time off spans in between and my best results have come from a mixture of high rep and heavy lifting sessions.

I find it easier to workout early in the morning as well so the night can be spent on other activites like having fun and training martial arts.

Here is a standard workout routine I will do in the gym and change it depending on what I need to do or out of boredom.

I also do light stretching between every set.

Chest: Flat Bench Press-155 lbs 20 reps/175 lbs 15 reps/205 lbs 12 reps/225 lbs 10 reps/250 lbs 6-6 reps.

Cable Cross-Overs-I do these more for defination than strength. 4 sets with starting reps of 25/25/20/15.

Dips- I do about 3-4 sets of 15-20 reps of full range dips with or without weight.

Back: Cable Rows/Machine Rows-120 lbs 25-30 reps/130 lbs 20 reps/140 lbs 15 reps/150 lbs 10-12 reps and I will end with a burn set of around 80 lbs that I will row tell failure.

Lat Pull Downs (In Front) 4-5 sets with a failure set towards the end.

Pull Ups (without weight) I do around 3-4 sets tell failure on each one.

Shoulders: Military Press-4 sets of that starts at 15 reps and goes down tell ten with a failure set at the end.

Lateral Raise Dumbells or Cables-4 sets with a failure set at the end.

Upwright Row (works the trap)- 4 sets of high reps.

Neck: Extension Machine/Forward-Backward-Sides: 3 sets of each angle-high reps low weight.

Abs: Leg Raises-4 sets of 30-35 reps.

Crunchs-4 Sets of real slow reps. Amount varies on how I feel. I do failure sets most of the time.

Day Two:

Biceps: Preacher Curl 4-5 sets starting at 20 reps.

Standing Dumbell Curls- 3 sets each of around 10-15 reps.

Pullups-I will end with a quick blast of one or two failure sets of full range pullups.

Triceps:

French Curl-4 sets with the weight going up. I try tp go heavy with this excerisce.

Cable Pressdowns of 4 sets with constant movement and strict forms. High reps of around 25-30 reps of medium weight with a extra failure set.

Tricep Push Ups-3 sets tell failure.

Forearms:

Cable Curl-4 sets tell failure

Cable Extensions-4 sets tell failure

Behind the Back Barbell Curl-3 sets of heavy weight tell failure.

Legs:

Leg Extensions-4 sets of high reps

Leg Curls-4 sets of high reps

Calf Extension-4 sets of high reps

* I will sometimes do dumbell lunges as well or inplace of one excersice.

Abs:

Twisting Crunchs-Fast speed and full motion. 4 sets tell failure.

Day Three

Cardio work

Regards

[OldFatBaldGuy]

Two thumbs up for Pavel!

If you get a chance to attend one of his seminars, by all means, do it. He's incredibly knowledgable and an excellent speaker/trainer. I went to his seminar on stretching and he had everyone there on the floor stretching and doing things we didn't believe we could ever do....including this OldFatBaldGuy!

[Lust]

Well I have been weight lifting for some time and quit because I got discoureged by my brother. My dumbells are about 15 pounds, heh im only 15. He told me that if you increase the amount you lift them then that doesn't do anything. He said that I need to lower my amount and increase the weight. The problem is that I don't have hevier ones. And even in the dumbell manuall it said that you need to increse the weight level by 5 pounds and decrease the amount you lift. Should I go buy hevier dumbells or should I continue training like this?
Thnx.

[Lust]

cmon someone reply

[Liokault]

Go join a gym.....Then you can bug profesionals.


Must be some cheap gyms near you? especialy as your only 15.

[ElPietro]

Depends on your goals but just using a 15lb dumbell will become pointless really quick. You can do quite a few exercises with dumbells but you need a variety of weights as your body is stronger on some lifts than others.

If you can join a gym that would be great...if not then either buy some more weights or get creative with some everyday stuff you have around the house.

[Sleemie]

Your probably not getting many responses because the nature of your question isn't really that pertinent to Kung Fu. But, basically, you're gonna have to do something different than just the 15 lb dumb bells. If you don't join a gym, you should at least go to the bookstore and pull up a chair and read a little bit from a couple of books.

[Lust]

Thnx for the replies guys, I'll probably join the high school gym next year.

[IronFist]

I know you won't listen to me, but I don't think 15 year olds should be weight training. But, I know you don't want to stick to bodyweight exercises because you think they're not as effective or good or whatever. So, here are some ideas for bodyweight exercises:

How many pushups can you do? Can you do 1 arm pushups?

Can you do headstand pushups (against a wall or freestanding)?

How many pullups can you do? Can you do 1 arm pullups?

Can you do 500 Hindu squats? What about 300? 200? 100?

Can you do one legged squats?

At your age these exercises would serve you better than weights could. If you can do 1 arm pushups, 1 arm pullups, and 1 legged squats for multiple reps then ask me about weights. If you want some ideas for setting up the above exercises for a daily routine then ask here, too :)

Good luck,

IronFist

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Sleemie
Your probably not getting many responses because the nature of your question isn't really that pertinent to Kung Fu. But, basically, you're gonna have to do something different than just the 15 lb dumb bells. If you don't join a gym, you should at least go to the bookstore and pull up a chair and read a little bit from a couple of books.

Nah, that's not true at all. We have a lot of discussions here that aren't pertinent to kung fu, as many of us lift weights and do varying forms of cardio work anyway.

15lbs won't do a heck of a lot for you. I'd stick with bodyweight exercises as iron suggested. Since your school has a gym, then yes, use it. Do they have a wrestling team? working out with them will whip you into shape also.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by IronFist

At your age these exercises would serve you better than weights could. If you can do 1 arm pushups, 1 arm pullups, and 1 legged squats for multiple reps then ask me about weights. If you want some ideas for setting up the above exercises for a daily routine then ask here, too :)

Good luck,

IronFist

Hey IronFist, I'm up for that!

How about a daily routine that includes only bodyweight exercises, including my new favouites in the "Royal Court"!?

Let's say the routine is primarily for increased strength and endurance, a little extra size is always a bonus, and perhaps some plyometrics for power.

This is your mission should you choose to accept it. This forum will self destruct as soon as anyone mentions Choy Lee Fut*! ;)

-------------------------------------

(*See Southern Forum)

[ElPietro]

Iron I have to disagree with you in this thread. Weight training at 15 is actually a good idea. As long as you are focused on form and have someone coaching you so that you learn the exercises properly weight training can help you reach your maximum genetic potential. You can even be lifting to failure...just try not to lift in too low of a rep range...i'd recommend sticking between 6-12 reps per set.

The purpose of adding weights to a training regime is to add resistance. So when you say "can you do one arm pushups" or single arm pullups this would be most likely putting even more stress on the body than if he had been using weights.

I'm not saying turn yourself into some meathead or gym rat but a well rounded training regime is a healthy addition at virtually any point in a person's life. Bodyweight is just that, it's not like adding iron into your life changes an exercise...it just changes the amount of stress...and in my opinion opens the door for a greater variety of exercise...along with an much more efficient method of tracking progress.

I'm not discounting bodyweight exercises...however, I am saying that they are primarily inferior to being able to train with weights for strength purposes. Coordination can come with your martial arts training or whatever sports you like to play so that would take care of that end of training.

[stoli]

Personally I completely agree with Ironfist, leave the weights, you really don't need them. To put it in very simple terms your body's still growing naturally and asking it to cope with the extra stresses that heavy weight sessions will put on it could be very detrimental in my opinion.

Bodyweight exercises and plyometrics will get a good core of functional strength and then when you're older you can add some weights if you feel you need to or want to.

Anyway I'm sure lots of people will disagree so good luck whatever you choose!!!!

[harry_the_monk]

Body weight exercises are really good as you don't need to spend money on gym membership or new equipment.
However, if you want to go train in a gym that is also fine remember not to lift more than your own bodyweight however. The theory behind this being that you do not wish to cause the soft ends of your still growing bones to become more compact than they should be.

Saying that, I started lifting in a gym when I was 12, then stopped when I was about 20, then shot up in hight(only to 5'8" :D ) but I think that was due to there still being potential growth in the bones at 20.

Have fun with both weights and bodyweight in your college gym, but don't lift more than you weigh for a while yet.

[ElPietro]

Originally posted by stoli
Personally I completely agree with Ironfist, leave the weights, you really don't need them. To put it in very simple terms your body's still growing naturally and asking it to cope with the extra stresses that heavy weight sessions will put on it could be very detrimental in my opinion.

Bodyweight exercises and plyometrics will get a good core of functional strength and then when you're older you can add some weights if you feel you need to or want to.

Anyway I'm sure lots of people will disagree so good luck whatever you choose!!!!

Plyometrics are harder on your joints then any form of weight training in existence.

I'll say it again, other than the amount of weight being used how is bodyweight training any different than actually using weights? Both of them are forms of resistance...just the resistance is from a different source. Some things you will not be able to do because bodyweight is too heavy...other things will be too easy so bodyweight will be insufficient. Your body doesn't all of a sudden realize that you are using weights and do something different. Your body is adapting to resistance being applied...regardless if it's bodyweight or not.

Also, soft tissue will potentially react by growing better from added stimulus so you can reach your genetic potential...this is where lifting with good form comes in...lifting with bad form which could damage your joints, tendons and ligaments could stunt growth...but this can be done with bodyweight as easily as with weights...in fact I would argue it would be easier with some of the akward bodyweight exercises I see people do.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by ElPietro
Iron I have to disagree with you in this thread. Weight training at 15 is actually a good idea. As long as you are focused on form and have someone coaching you so that you learn the exercises properly weight training can help you reach your maximum genetic potential. You can even be lifting to failure...just try not to lift in too low of a rep range...i'd recommend sticking between 6-12 reps per set.

The purpose of adding weights to a training regime is to add resistance. So when you say "can you do one arm pushups" or single arm pullups this would be most likely putting even more stress on the body than if he had been using weights.


Yeah, I know. The reason I listed the one arm variety of things is because most young people want to lift weights because either they think it's "cool," or beacuse they have been told by someone (the media, fellow students, etc.) that bodyweight exercises are inferior to weight training.

So maybe I was being stupid, but I figured that if he went and tried to do a one handed pushup or one legged squat he wouldn't be able to do it, and this might reaffirm the value of bodyweight exercises in his mind.

So I admit that it was stupid in the sense that 1RM'ing with 1 arm pullup is the same as 1RM'ing with weights so maybe I shouldn't have recommended that... however, it was done with the intention of showing him that bodyweight exercises aren't all "easy."

Heh, oops :) But you see my point, right?

IronFist

[ElPietro]

Originally posted by IronFist
Heh, oops :) But you see my point, right?


Yep. We are both simply promoting different methods of achieving the same thing. :)

[IronFist]

Cool. You and I seldom disagree. :)

IronFist

[MS2006]

I am 14 and 108 pounds. 2 weeks ago my max for bench pressing was 115. My normal routine was to lift 90 lbs in 3 sets of 3, 95lbs in 3 sets of 3, 100lbs in 3 sets of 3, and to finish it off 105 in 3 sets of 3. I have kept to that routine and yesterday I lifted 130! So now I need a new routine. I was thinking 100lbs in 3 sets of 3, 105lbs in 3 sets of 3, 110lbs in 3 sets of 3, and to finish it of 115 in 3 sets of 3. Is this a good new routine for the weight I can now lift or should I be lifting more weight? What should my new routine be? By the way I am a wrestler and i heard that I should do long distance running and squats to build up leg strength. Is this true? And I also heard that squating makes you run slower ( if so it is not a problem for me since I just run for distance not time) is this true? thanks for your time

[IronFist]

I don't think I could bench 115 when I was 14.

By the way I am a wrestler and i heard that I should do long distance running and squats to build up leg strength. Is this true?

Yes, but squatting will build power and long distance running will build endurance.

And I also heard that squating makes you run slower ( if so it is not a problem for me since I just run for distance not time) is this true?

There are too many factors involved here to say that. It could be true, such as if you used to be a sprinter and then you quit running and only squatted for months, you would probably get slower if you tried to run again. Or, it could be not true, like if you use squatting to supplement your running program. If you're not a sprinter I probably wouldn't worry about it. More important for wrestling is leg strength and endurance. Do you do Hindu squats? They are an awesome exercise for wrestlers. Try to build up to 100 in a row to start out with.

IronFist

[MS2006]

Ya i do hindu squats. I''ve been doing a hundred in a row for months now.

[IronFist]

Impressive.

How about one legged squats?

IronFist

[sticky fingers]

What are Hindu squats? How do you do them?

thanx

[IronFist]

Here (http://www.catchwrestle.com/catchoftheday.htm). Bottom of the page.

IronFist

[12345]

Running long distances too often is probably not a good idea because you may lose muscle. Some distance runners avoid the gym although some do gym work - it depends. Sprinters are more likely to do strength work. When I say long distances I mean 10k plus several times a week. Some amateur runners can cover 60 miles a week - that sort of regime is going to hinder the development of absolute strength imho - depends what else you do though - certainly running long distances in itself is not going to build much strength unless you are very weak. Try shorter faster runs or runs that include some very steep hills - try and sprint the hills or run fast up them, use the flats or down hill as recovery.

I'm interested in what would be considered a good balance in terms of lifts. For example, if I am doing squats with say 100kg, what would be a reasonable amount to bench etc etc etc. I expect each individual is different but I wondered what the normal proportions were ??

[Ford Prefect]

Be careful with the hindu squats. I screwed up my right knee really bad with those. I'd do 100's no problem for months. Then all of a sudden, I must have bent wrong one time or something because I was limping for a while afterward. Last time I tried them, I was in serious pain while walking for close to a month... Obviously I screwed something up bad. :) Just be careful.

[sticky fingers]

thanx for the link

Can I still do Hindu squats if I'm Catholic??:D

[Kempo Guy]

Another great exercise for leg strength besides hindu squats and one-legged squats is the 'deck-squat' (see this webpage for a description: http://www.dragondoor.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl?rm=mode2&articleid=45). I do these holding either a 45lb. plate or a 36lb KB. Really great exercise for the legs!

I'm not sure if this applies to wrestling, but generally speaking combat arts use anaerobic endurance, which means you should not run long distances but rather do wind sprints (HIIT program), i.e. you could jog for 1 minute then do 30seconds of sprints and so forth for about 20 minutes... It's a killer! :D

KG

[12345]

Good advice, of course you need to train aerobically as well. I have a limited understanding of this so if an expert wants to contradict me no offence will be taken.

Anaerobic means you are using the energy stored in the muscle. Aerobic means you are using energy delivered in the blood to the muscle (I think that's right). By speeding up the heart more blood can deliver more energy but there are limits - hence the need for a store in the muscle itself for exceptional effort over short time periods - kind of like nitrous injection on a car.

I am not a sports scientist so I am probably not explaining this well but the length of time you can operate flat out is very limited indeed. In other words there are limits on how far you can increase your anaerobic endurance. Look at a sprinter - you can't run flat out for more than 20 seconds or so. If your fight is going to last more than 20 seconds you might want to train aerobic and anaerobic - which of course the jog/sprint programme will do - whereas just jogging would not give you the anaerobic benefit.

Cyclists need aerobic efficiency and will work out their pulse rate where they can ride on the edge of working anaerobically without actually crossing that threshold, but they will also train anaerobically to cover breaks, for sprint finishing, short sharp hills etc. So long distance events such as the Tour de France still require the athlete to be able to work anaerobically. A fight is often similar - especially wrestling - where you are probably going to be expending energy constantly interspersed with periods of intense activity. Train to increase anerobic endurance (how much energy the muscles store) and recovery (how quickly they replenish) as well as aerobic which will affect the level of exertion you can use before you need to call on anaerobic energy - in other words if you are aerobically fit you don't waste your stores of valuable energy in the muscles - that is why people that say aerobic training through running is a waste of time are wrong - it is valuable but only part of the story.

Responses?

ps - I still want someone to tell me what the average ratios are for different lifts - eg if I can squat 100 what would it be normal for me to be able to bench press etc etc Or is this a silly question ?

[MS2006]

I can do about 20 one leg squats, but I can't go down as far as I can with 2 legs. Here is my daily routine, I need some advice on how to get my stamina up. I do these with long breaks between them so I can do them at my best.

-jog a mile
-hand weight exercises
-50 normal push ups (20, 10, 10, 10), 40 reverse push ups aka chest ups (20, 20), and 10 knuckle push ups. I do these 30 seconds apart
-300 crunches straight, 200 straight side to side crunches (don't know the actual name for them), 50 straight sit ups, and at the end the exercise where you start at 6 inches and then put your feet behind your head and then back to 6 inches. I do that 20 times and the last one I hold 6 inches for 30 seconds. I do these swith 30 second breaks inbetween them.
-I use an ab roller for 5 mins
-100 squats
- and every other day I bench press and do leg weight exercises (don't know the names of them)

The only ones I do at once are sometimes the push ups and sit ups. I was thinking about do them all at once like this. Weight lifting, jogging, sit ups, push ups, ab flexer, and then doing my hand weight exercises after I take a shower.

[MS2006]

O ya and starting monday I will be doing 2-3 miles for cross country practices.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by 12345
ps - I still want someone to tell me what the average ratios are for different lifts - eg if I can squat 100 what would it be normal for me to be able to bench press etc etc Or is this a silly question ?

Well, most people can squat 100 or 200lbs more than they can bench. However, in reality it's whatever you've trained to do. If you have benched for 5 years and never squatted then you'll probably be able to bench 200+ more than you can squat ;)

There may be ratios, actually, for bench, squat, and deadlift, but I don't know what they are :)

IronFist

[Viper555]

Is there a way that you can lift weights or something you can do before/after you lift weights to gain power without sacrificing speed?

[Viper555]

?????????

[ewallace]

I'm no authority, but look into olympic style lifting. Ironfist and/or Ford Prefect should be able to give you some good info.

[Ford Prefect]

As ewallace mentioned, you can try olympic weight lifting which builds strength and speed together. There are numerous ways you can not only not lose speed but gain it as well. Check out the "ballistic training" thread on this forum. I believe a few different ways are mentioned as well as links to resources. What is your typical workout like and what are you trying to accomplish? The answers to these will help people lead you to what would be best for you. It'll have to be somebody other than me though because I'll be with Mickey Mouse on vaca as of 2pm EST! Woohoo! M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E! Mickey Mouse! The one and only... hehehe. I'm a ****.

[ewallace]

I'm a ****.
'Nuff said.
I have 20 days until I go on vacce to san diego. Wait no, 20 days 4 hours and 40 minutes. Waiting sucks.

[Ford Prefect]

Sweet. I vistted my bud out in Huntington Beach in April. Socal is awesome. Surfing was a blast too.

[ewallace]

Probably going to try that too.

</threadjack>

[Sleemie]

PERSONALLY, I think the notion that lifting weights slows you down is a bunch of mularky. I think the only way it will slow you down is if you get massive and bulky, and that takes years to do, and I'm assuming you're not lifting to get that way, anyway. If you're lifting to get stronger and leaner and more fit, I personally don't think it will slow you down.

[Viper555]

One thing that a lot of my friends(my self included)and other people seem to keep researching and asking questions about is weight lifting to complement your martial arts training.I thought that since this question keeps reappearing that we could start a discussion about it on here,about the pros and cons, and what works v.s. what doesn't work.What are your opinions on wieght lifting and it's effectivness as opposed to bodyweight exercises.I personally like doing bodyweight exercises just as much(if not more)as lifting weights.The main reason I like them is because I know that i'm getting results from them.I just started taking Kung Fu where my instructors like to stress physical fitness more so than my instructors did at my old karate school(actually we did no physically exerting exercises in karate).Because of all the exercises that I have been doing(in the kwoon and at home)that I learned from my kung fu class I have gained some strength and am in the best shape i've ever been in but,one thing that I have thought about is this.Bodyweight exercises will help you to get stronger in the beggining but once you get to a certain point you are just working on muscle endurance and not strength.Therefore,if you want to get any stronger you have to incorporate some sort of weight training into it or you will just be standing still in the strength department.Because of this problem I started to do a little powerlifting which has worked out wonderfully.When I first started lifting weights I could barely bench press 120 one time and was shaky afterwards.After doing the powerlifting for about 2 months I could bench press 150 about 4 times.Based on that experience I think that lifting weights is a good idea and can be very helpful(if done right)to a person in the martial arts of any kind.What are some of your experiences with lifting weights?Do you perfere to lift for strength of endurance or do you do both?Do you even think that weight lifting is beneficial?If you don't lift weights,why not?If you do lift weights,why do you?Do you like bodyweight exercises more than lifting weights and why?

For those who are still reading this:I think that if everyone answers these questions we can get rid of a lot of the questions that pop up on these boards about weight lifting and have more knowledge about it ourselves.

Thanks for hanging on throughout this post!!!

Later

Viper

[IronFist]

Dude, I'm not trying to be a dick, but check this out:

Space bar - used to put spaces in between sentences.

Enter key - used to create new lines. Useful when dealing with multiple paragraphs.

IronFist

[IronFist]

Also, powerlifting is good and all, but make sure you get some endurance work, too. I found that out the hard way. After many months of only doing 2 sets of 5 reps with 3-5 minutes rest I got my ass kicked when I tried to do 10 sets of 5 reps with only 30 seconds rest.

IronFist

[Viper555]

Ifist:Is that what those buttons are for?





Thanks for letting me know, I would have never figured that out by myself.

[Ford Prefect]

I agree with Iron. Paragraphs are your friend.

As per powerlifting, it isn't the end all be all. It's good for maximal strength but that's about it.

[popsider]

http://members.aol.com/rayzwocker/worldclass/102200.htm

Any of you have an opinion on this - just something I came across.

[Viper555]

Anyone here?

[Wilson]

I'm sure everyone would love to help but you'll find so much information on the web, you'd be better off searching for exactly what you want. There are programs suited to whatever it is you want to get out of lifting weights.....strenght, definition, power, endurance, weight loss, etc. Figure out exactly what you want, then search for info or get some books and magazines.

Sounds like now, you're interested in gaining strength. I think its extremely important to be physically strong in the martial arts. Not only does it give you foundation for power in your strikes, but it gives you a solid structure to take hits and well as a little intimidation over the opponent.

What I've done in the past is sets where you increase weight and decrease reps. For example on the bench for where it sounds like you are at: Warmup, 8 reps - 110lb, 8 reps - 120, 6 reps - 130, 4 reps - 140. You can change these. Always have a spotter and the last rep should really be a struggle - not only does this make you stronger, but helps strengthen your mental toughness. Always try to increase the totals as you go. You might only increase on the 1st set and keep the rest the same. That's alright. Don't underestimate the amount of time for rest. If your working your muscles very hard, only work them once a week.

This is just one example. Like I said.....read, read, and read some more. Keep changing it up and find what works for you.

[cha kuen]

You can lift weights but i don't recommend it for a beginner. Don't try to use your muscles to be stiff, tense or to power the guy .

If you are tense when you touch hands, lifting weights will make you DE PROGRESS, if that's even a word.

kung fu books (http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=taichimaster06&include=0&)

[tiger2dragon]

Everything aside, everyone should be doing some sort of weight bearing lifting. It has clinically been proven to help bone density as people get older, toned muscle burns more fat. There are all sorts of reasons beyond just gaining strength for lifting

Charles Staley. He has written a number of good books specifically for weight training and the martial artists.
<http://www.integratedsportsolutions.com>
________________________________
What is your greatest weapon? It is in your head, use your mind and you will never be defeated.

Or just do a great head butt

[eulerfan]

That would be REGRESS, I think.

But, if you prefer body weight exercises but feel you will necessarily hit a wall, why not just add more weight to your body? Ankle weight, wrist weights, weight vests, stuff like that?

[David Jamieson]

what sort of routines does everyone get into here?

there are a lot of threads about weight lifting here, but not many about how to incorporate modern lifting with classical or traditional martial arts.

anyone do this?

experiences?

cheers

[Vash]

. . . When I'm training, I generally do a twice-a-week, full-body routine, with focus on my rotator cuffs and the interior of my legs to correct a patella tracking problem. Other than that, I go (or rather went) for compound actions, like clean and press, neutral grip pullups, deadlifts, DB bench, things like that.

no squats, though. strange knees, messed up a few vertebrae. Used to squat 300 @ 145-150 a while ago, though.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Vash
. . . When I'm training, I generally do a twice-a-week, full-body routine, with focus on my rotator cuffs and the interior of my legs to correct a patella tracking problem. Other than that, I go (or rather went) for compound actions, like clean and press, neutral grip pullups, deadlifts, DB bench, things like that.

no squats, though. strange knees, messed up a few vertebrae. Used to squat 300 @ 145-150 a while ago, though.

****. Double bw squat is awesome.

[Vash]

Yeah, I was pretty proud of myself. Now, I'm making it a personal goal to tie my shoes without contorting into positions from the Kama Sutra.

[Toby]

Kung Lek, PTP. Why? Because there's no soreness and minimal fatigue, so it hardly affects my MA. Plus you get strong. Pretty much as strong as you can. Plus you don't increase in size too much (at all for me as I started it already trained). Plus it only takes a short time. Lots of pros. Can't think of any cons. Lifts? The powerlifts plus pullups.

[GeneChing]

Three Hong Kong women weightlifters who aren’t shy about showing their muscles (http://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/health-beauty/article/2115080/three-hong-kong-women-weightlifters-who-arent-shy-about)
Powerlifting is growing in popularity among Hong Kong women, who see having a muscular figure as inspiring and feminine and say the sport has boosted their self-confidence
PUBLISHED : Saturday, 14 October, 2017, 6:45pm
UPDATED : Sunday, 15 October, 2017, 7:01pm
Rachel Cheung

https://cdn2.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/980x551/public/images/methode/2017/10/13/e49830ce-af1d-11e7-9cb1-5f6b75e2d8b2_1280x720_152732.JPG

Stephanie Tsui Yan-ting began powerlifting two years ago to find a common interest with her boyfriend, and it has changed her life.
Now she hits the gym five times a week – waking up before dawn and training for two hours before heading to work – and can dead lift 140kg, more than double her weight.
Tsui, 26, who trains at Fitness First, is among a growing number of women getting into weightlifting and resistance training. Nowhere is the trend more apparent than on social media, which is flooded with images of women in their workout gear flexing their biceps, pumping iron and documenting their transformation. The trending hashtag #girlswholift garners 17.8 million results on Instagram alone.
Bobbie Poulton, who has practised like an Olympic weightlifter for nearly 10 years, believes social media has influenced women’s attitudes towards the sport.
“Women are going to the gym and picking up the barbells. They are not scared walking to the weights area any more, whereas before it was completely off limits. Now it’s cool. You can buy pink dumbbells,” says Poulton, 26, a senior strength and conditioning coach at Pinnacle Performance in Wan Chai, and a CrossFit athlete.

https://cdn4.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2017/10/13/1b98596e-af1e-11e7-9cb1-5f6b75e2d8b2_1320x770_152732.JPG
Female personal trainer Bobbie Poulton pumps some iron in Pinnacle Performance gym in Wan Chai. Photo: K.Y. Cheng

“If you look at the rest of the world, weightlifting has definitely taken off. There are women doing CrossFit, running around with six-packs [well-defined abdominal muscles] … and it’s actually looked upon as an achievement,” Poulton adds.
In Hong Kong and most of Asia, though, the female weightlifting community remains relatively small. One factor stands in the way – the fear of gaining muscles and becoming bulky. The slim beauty ideal is almost universal, but it is more ingrained in Asian societies in which most women are petite and women are held to an even higher standard than elsewhere.
Poulton has had female clients who quit training with her because they deemed her too muscular and worried they would end up looking the same.
“This has happened four or five times, even though I’ve made it very clear I look the way I do purely because I’ve chosen to train to look like this. It’s actually very difficult to gain muscle mass. If it wasn’t, I’d look like Arnold Schwarzenegger,” says Poulton, who every now and then encounters female clients who panic at the thought of beefing up.
“When I go to the gym with my friends, we celebrate getting bigger muscles,” says Poulton. When a new friend commented on her legs, “oh my god, they are massive”, she gladly took it as a compliment.
In the Asian community, that type of observation is often dished out or taken as a criticism, instead. Tsui recalls being publicly shamed for having big calves – two male strangers on the streets looked her up and down and remarked that her legs were too thick.

https://cdn2.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2017/10/13/b8120156-af1d-11e7-9cb1-5f6b75e2d8b2_1320x770_152732.JPG
Weightlifter Stephanie Tsui goes through her routine at Fitness First in Central. Photo: David Wong

The size of her legs has always been a source of insecurity for Tsui. In high school, to slim down her limbs, she went on diets and exercised so much that she started losing her hair and her period stopped for months. While weightlifting did not make her legs thinner – if anything, she has gained a more muscular frame – she has come to embrace them.
“To a certain extent, how your limbs look are determined by your genes and cannot be changed drastically. Why not just own it and work with what you’ve got? If I can’t be proud of how my thighs look, maybe I can be proud of what they can do,” says Tsui.
Her goal now is to become stronger. If that means buffing up physically, then so be it. There are drawbacks, such as difficulties in finding clothes that fit, but they are minor compared to the health benefits and satisfaction weightlifting brings.
“It’s very empowering. You do not have to rely on men to help you carry things,” says Tsui.
With more representation of fit women in popular culture and social media, traditional beauty ideals are slowly shifting. It helps that more women, like Tsui, are setting performance goals – like lifting more weight – rather than aesthetic ones like losing more weight, and realising what they are capable of.

https://cdn4.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2017/10/13/54501030-af1e-11e7-9cb1-5f6b75e2d8b2_1320x770_152732.JPG
Poulton believes social media has influenced women’s attitudes towards the sport. Photo: K.Y. Cheng

“Before it was hard for me to convince women it’s possible to work towards a pull-up [an exercise in which you hold onto a bar above your head and pull your body up until your chin is above the bar]. Now I’m teaching women to do a muscle-up [an exercise to strengthen the arms and upper body, lifting one’s own weight while hanging from a bar to a position above the bar]. I am seeing more goals like that, rather than just wanting to lose weight. That’s a change I really enjoy seeing,” says Kay Kay Keung, one of the founders of Trybe Studio in Wong Chuk Hang.

https://cdn2.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2017/10/13/a0079b2a-af1d-11e7-9cb1-5f6b75e2d8b2_1320x770_152732.JPG
Tsui braces herself for a lift at Fitness First in Central. Photo: David Wong

Keung, who grew up in the US state of North Carolina, started weight training at the age of 12 when she followed her older brother into the gym. As a competitive athlete who swims, runs and plays lacrosse as well as American football, becoming stronger gives Keung an edge over other players, even male ones.
“I used to race against boys and even played football with boys. I wanted to make sure I wasn’t the girl who’s getting left out or the weak person on the team.”
Having retired from the Hong Kong lacrosse team after competing in the World Cup this July, Keung is now getting ready to participate in international weightlifting competitions next year.
With more female weightlifters, whether professional or amateur, joining the sport, the obsession over a slender figure is not the only gender stereotype they are breaking.
Keung (centre) goes through some exercises at Trybe Studio in Wong Chuk Hang. Photo: Nora Tam
“One fear I had when I started out as a trainer was that people wouldn’t trust me as a coach, because I am female and small. When they think of a trainer, they have an image of a male buff guy, and that’s not what I am,” says Keung, 27. “Even though I have the knowledge or skills, I still had the fear of people not recognising it in females.”
When she first became a personal trainer five years ago, she had 35 male colleagues and only three female ones.
“They would suggest that men train with me because they are attracted to me, not because they think I am a good trainer,” says Keung, of her male colleagues, who also questioned why she did not wear make-up or pull the zip of her jacket a little lower.
Those types of comments have faded and she is the proud owner of her own gym, where three out of five co-founders are women – a positive sign that things are starting to change.
For any woman interested in resistance training, Poulton has this simple advice. “Start now. There’s nothing to be scared of. If you are unsure, I’d say speak to a female coach because they will be able to empathise with you.”
She adds: “We all started somewhere.”

Odd article because none of these women are that burly, at least not so much to be unattractive. Besides, I find muscular women kinda hot. ;)

[David Jamieson]

Strong, healthy and fit is a good trait for anyone to have at any age.
My 6 pack is not holding up well, I gotta say... **** middle age adipose tissue takeover!!!!

:p

[SteveLau]

qeySuS,

There are two goals in weight lifting - aim for endurance, strength.

Train for Strength - use 80% of maxmium weight one could lift for each exercise.

Train for Endurance - use 60% of maxmium weight one could lift for each exercise.

This is what you will learn in Weight Lifting 101. And even one goal is to train for endurance, there will always be some gain in muscle strength.
Good luck.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[Frost]

qeySuS,

There are two goals in weight lifting - aim for endurance, strength.

Train for Strength - use 80% of maxmium weight one could lift for each exercise.

Train for Endurance - use 60% of maxmium weight one could lift for each exercise.

This is what you will learn in Weight Lifting 101. And even one goal is to train for endurance, there will always be some gain in muscle strength.
Good luck.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

No, no and no

[GeneChing]

PHYS ED
Weight Training May Help to Ease or Prevent Depression (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/06/well/weight-training-may-help-to-ease-or-prevent-depression.html)
Benefits essentially were the same whether people went to the gym twice a week or five times a week.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/06/12/well/physed-weights1/physed-weights1-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp
CreditiStock

By Gretchen Reynolds
June 6, 2018

Lifting weights might also lift moods, according to an important new review of dozens of studies about strength training and depression. It finds that resistance exercise often substantially reduces people’s gloom, no matter how melancholy they feel at first, or how often — or seldom — they actually get to the gym and lift.

There already is considerable evidence that exercise, in general, can help to both stave off and treat depression. A large-scale 2016 review that involved more than a million people, for instance, concluded that being physically fit substantially reduces the risk that someone will develop clinical depression. Other studies and reviews have found that exercise also can reduce symptoms of depression in people who have been given diagnoses of the condition.

But most of these past studies and reviews have focused on aerobic exercise, such as walking or jogging.

Far less has been known about the possible benefits, if any, of strength training for mental health. One 2017 analysis of past research had found that strength training can help people feel less anxious and nervous.

But anxiety is not depression.

So for the new study, which was published in May in JAMA Psychiatry, the same researchers who earlier had examined anxiety and resistance exercise now turned their attention to depression.

They wanted to see whether the available research could tell us if lifting weights meaningfully affects the onset and severity of depression. They also sought to determine if the amount of the exercise and the age, health or gender of the exercisers would matter.

The researchers began by gathering all of the best past studies related to resistance exercise and depression. They were interested only in randomized experiments with a control group, meaning that some people had been assigned to start exercising while others had not. These experiments are the gold standard for testing the effects of exercise and other interventions.

The experiments also had to include testing for depression before and after the training.

The researchers ultimately found 33 experiments of weight training and depression that met their criteria. The studies involved almost 2,000 men and women of various ages, some of whom had been diagnosed with depression, while others had not.

The researchers aggregated the results from all of these studies and then began digging through the data.

What they found was that resistance training consistently reduced the symptoms of depression, whether someone was formally depressed at the start of the study or not. In other words, if people began the study with depression, they usually felt better after taking up weight training. And if they started out with normal mental health, they ended the experiment with less chance of having become morose and sad than people who did not train.

Perhaps most interesting, the amount of weight training did not seem to matter. The benefits essentially were the same, whether people went to the gym twice a week or five times a week and whether they were completing lots of repetitions of each exercise or only a few.

The mental health impacts were similar, too, for men and women and for younger lifters (often college students) and people who were middle-aged or elderly.
And people did not need to pack on mass or might to reduce their depression. More strength after the experiment did not correlate with less depression, the researchers found.

All that mattered was showing up and completing the workouts.

Only a few of the studies had also included a separate group who tried aerobic exercise, making it difficult to compare the effects of that kind of workout with those of lifting weights.

But while the number of people involved was small, the combined results suggest that weight training and aerobic exercise have similar impacts on depression, the authors of the new review conclude.

Both types of exercise reduced symptoms, and to about the same extent.
This kind of review cannot tell us, though, how strength training might be influencing mental health.

The exercise probably has both physiological and psychological consequences, says Brett Gordon, a graduate student at the University of Limerick in Ireland, who led the new review. The weight training could be changing aspects of the brain, including the levels of various neurochemicals that influence moods, he says.

“Expectancy could also be at work,” he says. People expect the workouts to make them feel more cheerful, and they do. (It’s impossible to blind people about whether they are lifting weights or not, he points out. So some of the psychological benefits might be the result of a biological placebo effect, which nonetheless produces real benefits.)
The review’s results do not indicate that resistance training is better for combating depression than other kinds of exercise, Mr. Gordon says. Nor do the results suggest that exercise can, or should, replace traditional therapies, including medication.

But as a whole, he says, the data do suggest that visiting the gym and lifting weights a few times a week might be an effective way to buoy mental health.

I dunno, man. Whenever I lift, I get depressed on how bad I am at it. But then, I don't lift really, not since I was NCAA in college and in training. :o

[SteveLau]

Currently, my training program is as follows:

Weekly: 1.7 sessions on bodybuilding only, 1 running session, and 1 MA session.


My BB session is more on training strength than endurance. Even running and MA session will have some strength training exercises afterwards. Each session starts and ends with stretching. MA does require student to have good strength, balanced with endurance and flexibility.




Regards,

KC
Hong Kong