Went to a grappling class today...

[HopGar]

Let's just say I was humbled a bit. Looks like its time to learn what Hop Gar did not teach me.

[dnc101]

Don't feel bad. I get humbled every time I grapple.

[SevenStar]

Congrats bud. I wish more people would do that. then we could end all of the misconceptions people have about fighting grapplers.

[Serpent]

Grapplers are only sport fighters and everybody knows they wouldn't survive a second in a real street fight. And kung fu fighters would beat them in an instant with dim mak. And that's why kung fu doesn't fight in MMA, cos it's too deadly and all their techs are illegal. And all grapplers are steroid monkeys anyway.




Did I cover it all? Just wanted to get it out of the way.

[TaoBoy]

Humble is a good place to be. I go into every class with the thought that I know nothing. As soon as you think you know something - you get smacked.

Stick with it!

[Serpent]

That's cos you know nothing.

[Leonidas]

Exactly what style of grapplin' was it?

[TaoBoy]

Thanks Serpie. You're a top bloke. And yes - I do know very little indeed and have never claimed otherwise. :D

[Serpent]

;)

Just yanking yer proverbial.

'Course, I probably know less than you!

[SifuAbel]

{yawning at serpent} :o

Hop,

No shiznit sherlock, what did you think was going to happen when you go and play someone else's game? Did you try to out grapple a grappler? Did you at least TRY to use your kung fu? If you didn't, then whats the point?

[KnightSabre]

HopGar

Congrats on your open mindedness,
Nothing wrong with adding some ground fighting to your kung fu.

Don't listen to SifuAbel,he allways gets upset when he hears how kung fu guys were suprised to find grappling is a humbling experience.

[HopGar]

Actually, it was more enlightening in terms of new ways to of applying my kung fu.

And yes, SifuAbel, I did use my kung fu and the guy working with me found it really annoying when I was breaking his chokes and kind of pushing him back halfway and then punching him in the gut just to get him to back off a bit.

And as for the guys who bash styles, there was one guy who kept saying that my style did not make any sense and that he just sees a whole target when I punch, but I guess there is a bit of that everywhere.

Y'all have a good day, I'm off to eat then go to work.

Peace

[friday]

hmmmm

[HopGar]

Actually Knight/SifuAbel, I was not surprised I got killed, I was surprised how well I did and then I realized how little I knew. That's how it was humbling.

But anyhow, question for the grapplers. They were doing a wrist lock- I think it was called a kotagesh or something. My question is are you supposed to turn the guys hand/wrist so far that his pinky is facing him or just enough to cause pain. I also wanted to say that how would this work b/c everytime one ofd the guys tried this on me, I did not feel pain and was able to get out of that lock.

Any advice guys?

[NorthernMantis]

Pardon my ignorance but stating you are going to learn something from another style what your current style hasn't taught you when you have only been doing it for 2 years is sheer lunacy! You haven't even learned 2% of your style and you are already saying that it is not good enough? It would have been different if you did hop gar for ten years and realised that it wasn't enough but this is only 2 years and your only 17 years old.

Muchacha,munjai, aya and any other word that any sifu says. Look man you are just young. I see nothing wrong in losing but I see something wrong if you just want to change to something else when you don't even have a firm grasp with something that you already got.

If I were in your shoes I would have analised the strenghts and weakneses of the opponent and his style and I would have tried to improve on it and and go at it again.

[Braden]

Wanting to do one thing means that you think something else you do is insufficient?

:confused:

[HopGar]

"Pardon my ignorance but stating you are going to learn something from another style what your current style hasn't taught you when you have only been doing it for 2 years is sheer lunacy! You haven't even learned 2% of your style and you are already saying that it is not good enough? It would have been different if you did hop gar for ten years and realised that it wasn't enough but this is only 2 years and your only 17 years old. "

Um, actually, I have learned all ofthe basics. Now I'm not going to go off on a diatribe against my kung fu school b/c I know at least one person fomr the school either posts or reads on the forum, but I honestly did not feel like I was getting any better and they do not spar. On top of that, I was forced to quit b/c of no money.

The point of my post should not have been that I was going to stop training hop gar not do I intend to stop, as soon as I have some cash, I will immediately sign up, but the fact was that now I know that I absolutely need to train grappling. I knew the danger of grapplers before hand, I did not realize how much I could apply and at the same time not apply. I'm sorry if I did not make that clear.

"Muchacha,munjai, aya and any other word that any sifu says. Look man you are just young. I see nothing wrong in losing but I see something wrong if you just want to change to something else when you don't even have a firm grasp with something that you already got. If I were in your shoes I would have analised the strenghts and weakneses of the opponent and his style and I would have tried to improve on it and and go at it again."

Thats what I started doing. The guy I trained with said that when I post up and break his choke, its good for me b/c he knows my background and actually I know his already.

Whatever. I'm not going to go argue.

[rogue]

I went to a Tai Chi class during lunch.

[Kickmaster]

It never hurts to learn ground fighting. Because you'll never know when you might wind up on the ground, and being able to fight from the ground makes you a better Martial Artist. I'm learning Shaolin Kung-Fu and we have ground fighting. If I ever have to use my training I'll have a better chance with my new techniques than without it......

[HopGar]

Braden, of course hop gar is not insufficient. If I implied that, I apologize, I simply was staying that now I need to learn grappling and being that I have been told by people in my hop gar school that they do not focus on grappling so much, I need to find somewhere to learn it.

Whatever. I shoula known I would be misunderstood.....

[Braden]

HopGar - I'm with you man. I was questioning NorthernMantis.

[CanadianBadAss]

If i were you I would forget the hop gar and train the grappling. Thats what I would've done just I love Wing Chun too much. And because it handled their stand up game with out difficulty, (some mix of karate/kick boxing/mui tai). And the BJJ is way cheaper then the WC, and the bjj classes aren't nearly as boring as WC can be when rolling hands for hours, and SLT... I'll give WC another 2 years, then I'll start cross training with BJJ.

[HopGar]

"If i were you I would forget the hop gar and train the grappling. Thats what I would've done just I love Wing Chun too much. And because it handled their stand up game with out difficulty, (some mix of karate/kick boxing/mui tai). And the BJJ is way cheaper then the WC, and the bjj classes aren't nearly as boring as WC can be when rolling hands for hours, and SLT... I'll give WC another 2 years, then I'll start cross training with BJJ."

Do I sense disdain and sarcasm?

[SifuAbel]

less than two years? 17? no sparring? Forget what i posted there is no kung fu here to speak of.

You've learned all the basics. Whoopee!!!

Knughtsampler,

If your read it again I stated that he should expect to be humbled if you go and play someone elses game without playing yours.

[Shaolindynasty]

HopGar- Good for you. Learn, and don't worry about people like Abel who have some kind of complex about learning grappling because of what trolls on the internet say. I do agree though you need sparring etc. Also after 2 years of consistant regualr practice you should have some grasp of kungfu and be able to fight with it.

I am a die hard kungfu fan. I practice shaolin longfist and Choy lay fut but i also have an interest in other arts. Right know I am reading a "kodokan judo" book and I have to say i find the principles covered in that book very interesting. If I had the time (or when I get it) I'd definatly look into Judo myself.

[NorthernMantis]

Ok I admit I mistunderstood but my main point is this: how can people go and learn a new style when they don't have a strong basis on the one they have?

If I were a bjj stylist I would make sure I had a strong foundation before moving on to something else.

Like SifuAble I agree that "just" learning the basics isn't enough.
Learning the basics is one thing (especially recently) but taking your time to understand and make them proefficient over a period of time is another. It's like me just learning how to add and go do long division. It just doesn't work. You need to put time into it to test it out,refine it, and personalise it. Then afterwards when you have gotten a deep understanding of them you will have a better chance when you move on.

Then again I can't tell you what to do with your life. If you have a foundation fine...if you have a strong foundation that is even better.

Look I see nothing wrong with people doing grappling or any art. What bothers me is seeing people move on before they have a good grasp ont things. I understand that you were not able to coninue becuase of various reasons.

I apologise if I jumped the gun without reading throuroughly and reflecting on it better.

[Braden]

Adding and division aren't two different things; one is a natural progression of the other.

Doing something else isn't "moving on." It's just doing something else.

[greendragon]

HopGar, on the "kotagesh", pay more attention to your footwork and waist turning before you worry about the wrist position details.

[Serpent]

SifuAbel, what are you yawning at you rude *******?

Cover your mouth. Didn't your mama teach you anything?

She taught me a thing or two.

[SevenStar]

Two years is enough time for him to be able to look at what he's learned and see if it is for him. 2 years is plenty of time for him to have sparred. If he wants to train something else, there's no shame in that. He may not want a foundation in hop gar....maybe he just wants something else

[SifuAbel]

SD,

Do you actually READ what I say or do you have a pre packaged response pamphet you cut and paste from? I never said it was BAD. I just get tired of people blaming their art for their own inadequacies. As per what NM said, right on!

Serpie,

She was just consoling you when she told you that it happens to a lot of guys and that maybe viagra could help you. Although later on she did laugh a bit with me saying that she had seen bigger on a 12 year old. :rolleyes:

[Serpent]

Something for you to aspire to then.

[jimmy23]

i go away for a year , come back, and sifu abel is still using adolescent insults, i guess some things never change

[LEGEND]

HOP GAR...u never sparred in the 2 years at your skool??? WTF??? And u still haven't answered what style of grappling it is!

[HopGar]

Legend, its a cross of judo and jujitsu. I dunno why they don't spar, but they don't. And even if they do, no one sure told me a **** thing about it.

Greendragon, thanks. I'll keep that one in mind

As for you two, SifuAbel and Northernmantis, Aren't the basics what you need to be able to advance? So I learned the basics in 6 months and have spent an additional year trying to figure out how they work, without having any fighting experience at all. The only thing I ever used with any success was a sweep on some kid who threw my brother into a window. I think now I need to take a short break from Hop Gar, learn to grapple and then go back to Hop Gar a bit later on.

Sevenstar, my foundation is Hop Gar. All of last night I was using only Hop Gar in response to the techniques the class was learning. Sure, I learned a few basic grappling techs, but I used 99.999999% Hop Gar.

Hope I cleared a few things up.

[Merryprankster]

They used a wristlock? Standing or Ground? Please don't tell me standing...firghteningly low percentage. Too many degrees of freedom of movement...

Anyhoo...

I'm in Brazil and off to bed. Cheers all.

James

[once ronin]

hop gar next time take a pair of double dagger to spar with these guys. show them another part of kung fu.

[SifuAbel]

serpy, ..........weak.........

Jimmy, stay away for another year, do us that favor. As usual, throwing your two cents in, not knowing its a crooked game of dice. Think about it.


Hoppy,

Lets put it this way. You've just bought a bunch of apples from the store on your way home, but you ain't no where near making them into apple pie. As far as ANY MA is concerned you are still green.........as............grass.
Two years is bubkiss, two years and no sparring is pitiful bubkiss.

[HongKongPhooey]

spar, spar, SPAR!

[Choke]

Two years means nothing. How many hours and how hard means alot more. Plus you have never used your kung fu in sparing. How did you think you would go against someone who applies their art via sparing every time they train, as most grapplers do?

[HopGar]

Choke, how does two years, two hours everyday of just training sound to you? I knew I would not do well against them; I went primarily b/c I knew they did some grappling and wanted to see it in action.

SifuAbel, you sound like my grandmother. Or just some Yenta from NYC, but I get your point.:D

Merry, they did it both standing and on the ground. When they did it standing, I kept sweeping the guy I was working with.

Look everyone, I'm not bashing kung fu, I absolutely love Hop Gar and would love to goto Tibet just to study for a couple of years; I just had an sudden realization that I need to learn grappling and it hit me so suddenly, I had to say something about it. Maybe Hop Gar does have groundwork, but one thing is for sure, when I was going to class, I was there the longest and sure did not see anything of the sort.


Peace Y'all

[HopGar]

My martial arts experience actually is 6 years of kung fu, only two were in Hop Gar. I spent 4 years before hand taking Shaolin Kung Fu.

Peace Y'all

[SDriver]

I don't see anything wrong with someone expecting to have learned something about groundfighting in two years of a "complete art," especially if the techniques have been there all along. I certainly don't think it's cause for mudslinging. If my instructors treated me the way "sifus" treat others on the internet, I would no longer associate with them. But I don't have the spiritual training to judge, so what do I know. :mad:

[Internal Boxer]

Sifu Abel,

If you are the same guy who trains San sou fighters, then I would recommend your guys enter a MMA tournament to see how they fair, cause its easy being a big fish in a little pond. Anything goes tournies are the only sports events that have any true fighting validity when compared to San sou tournies with their rules upon rules hampering the fight.

[SevenStar]

good point, choke.

[Shaolindynasty]

Abel......Prepacked response? I wasn't aware that any of my responses were the same? Also how was he blaming his art for any inadequacies? You need to spend less time trying to come up with your "clever" insults and spend more time in reality. After 2 years of consistant practice you should be fighting with at least the basic grammer of that style. He should know pretty much what the curriculum consists of.

BTW Why are you telling him to stay in a school that after 2 years he hasn't really learned to use his technique by sparring etc.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

regardless of anything else, i think its good that he went from not sparring to sparring. he's not replacing his hopgar, just adding to it.

[NorthernMantis]

Originally posted by Braden
Adding and division aren't two different things; one is a natural progression of the other.

Doing something else isn't "moving on." It's just doing something else.

Point well taken but you know what I mean.

[Leonidas]

Wait wait, am i missing something. I thought Shuai (Chiao) was a huge part of Hop gar and Tibetan styles in general and that it DOES contain groundfighting.

[SifuAbel]

Leo,

He wouldn't know, he's hasn't been at it long enough.

Choke,
Great point, isn't that what a lot of us are saying?
I'm glad someone can make this point without the napalm. It's one thing to "know" your basics its another thing all together to understand them and then put them to use. This might be hard for some of you to accept being that two years might encompass the majority of your experience but these are the facts. Maybe if I changed my name to the "Strangulator" people wouldn't have a preset response reflex for any thing I said ala SD.

Hoppy,

I'm getting Pheclempt, tawlk amoungst ya'selves subject: getting into a harda' hitting school.
By your desprictions at least it seems you need something more indepth. A school with no contact can't give you what you need. If you would have said your experience was informative and eye openeing it would be different but humbling suggests weakness.

Sdiver,

Did i huwrt your wittle feewings? awwww sawwee I am descibed by those that know me to be an intense and mercurial individual. I am not here to be "liked". I could care less. I can make friends in the real world. If someone stops training with me because they can't handle my personality thats not my loss. You don't know me and can never know me through text on a page. And, you can't judge me by what I say to someone just on the spur of one post because you don't know the history behind what I say or why I'm driven to say them. Its like walking into a room where a husband has got a gun pointed at his wife and you disarm him not knowing it was beacause the wife is murderous and then she proceeds to stab you in the back.

internal,

I think you got me confused with sifu ross. But on that note, forget contests, how well would you fair against three guys in a bar bathroom in Miami? None of them being royce because after all he would choke the three of them simultaneously.

[LEGEND]

HOP GAR...seriously for 2 years u got ripped off! I know for a fact HOP GAR guys spar after 3 months of training. You must have enrolled into a MCDOJO type skool. Don't make the same mistake bro. It's actually quite common for skools now to contain a seminar blue belt range BJJ guy...to be honest...that's all u need for self defense.

[SifuAbel]

"skools now to contain a seminar blue belt range BJJ guy...to be honest...that's all u need for self defense.

:rolleyes:

[HopGar]

Legend, can you tell me where you heard that? I'm just wondering. And just so you know, my sifu is Ku Chi Wai (Simon Ku), who is a legit grandmaster, so I don't know about it being a McDojo, unless he's holding stuff back, which would really, really bother me. There are no BJJ guys in my school, but thats besides the point.

Ok SifuAbel, I used the wrong word. Sorry.

You're right Leonidas, but its more in the form of throws, at least from my limited experience. I of course, like usual, could be wrong.

Actually, I'm thinking of contacting the school and try to arrange private lessons or something so I can learn Hop Gar more in depth and maybe learn to apply it better.

Man I need to really think before I say something ambiguous b/c people will take it the wrong way. WOW.

[LEGEND]

SIFU ABEL I didn't mean it that way...I meant in terms of the BJJ groundfighting...all u need is 6 months in that style to defend yourself in a ground fighting scenario. The techs in a 6 month BJJ course is adequate for self defense...the rest is more for sports bjj. Now for his standup he needs to go elsewhere cause he won't get any standup in a bjj enviornment. Hell 6 months in San Shou would do it also!

[LEGEND]

I have sparred hop gar guys in B more and those guys had only several months of training...kinda wierd but...u guys seem like JUDO players to me with your constant sweep attempts! Have u ever question your GRANDMASTER why u never sparred??? It's like learning how to play basketball and never even scrimaging!

[HopGar]

"I have sparred hop gar guys in B more and those guys had only several months of training...kinda wierd but...u guys seem like JUDO players to me with your constant sweep attempts! Have u ever question your GRANDMASTER why u never sparred??? It's like learning how to play basketball and never even scrimaging!"

I asked why there was no sparring, I think I remember the response being something about Kaap Choi's being too dangerous to spar with or something like that. I don't remember exactly.

Yeah we do that alot don't we? Always trying to set up a throw of some kind.

Peace Y'all

[Leonidas]

Whaddya need Judo/Jujutsu if ya got Shuai man. Just stay up, be patient and train your ass off. Ask that your sifu finally allows you to spar. Dont be a Jackhole about it either or you might not have a sifu after he drops you on your head and kicks your ass outta the kwoon. Judo and Jujutsu basically trains the same thing as Shuai Chiao but different. All 3 of them do Throws and Locks and a bit of groundfighting. I dont know if Hop ga has groundfighting though, ask your instructor about it.


One question though. Does anyone in your school spar at all and when do they start sparring? After a certain amount of forms or proficiency in certain techniques? Did you ever think that maybe your Sifu doesn't think your ready for it? He prolly doesn't want you developing bad habits. Like i said, maybe you should start training twice as hard and if your really that worried about getting tackled and choked out, get a couple of class mates and practice with them at home. Problem solved

[jimmy23]

"Jimmy, stay away for another year, do us that favor"

Naw, Ill hang around, little weasley fellas like you make me laugh.

I do wish you'd repost those ***gy pictures of you doing deep horse stances with guys standing on your legs, those were cool! And you looked so proud of yourself!

[NorthernMantis]

Hey HopGar I really wanna apologise for coming off arrogant and critisize like that. there's no excuse for that. Maybe I could have made my point come across in not such a rude manner. My bad.:o

[LEGEND]

HOP GAR...I don't buy that...it sounds like your GRANDMASTER never bought insurance to cover for his skool! After 2 god**** years and u never sparred??? That's just plain GARBAGE! In almost all the systems I've trained in...within a month I progressively sparred from light to full contact( within 3 months )! It really is a SIN to not be allowed to spar! Without sparring you're not dealing with RESISTING force! I suggest you train somewhere else...he may offer good techniques...but without the insurance( I'm assuming ) to cover his kwoon...u'll never spar!

LEO...u found a skool yet after 3 months???

[diego]

Originally posted by Leonidas



One question though. Does anyone in your school spar at all and when do they start sparring? After a certain amount of forms or proficiency in certain techniques? Did you ever think that maybe your Sifu doesn't think your ready for it? He prolly doesn't want you developing bad habits. Like i said, maybe you should start training twice as hard and if your really that worried about getting tackled and choked out, get a couple of class mates and practice with them at home. Problem solved [/B]



That's what i was thinking zvika!, cuz, in ngmings bio it states ngming and your gm were told to go out in the streets and test it like they learnt a fighters art not a self defense method?! " still curious on this program of teaching hopga :)", ;) but that was 1930-1960 china and HK...u godo that in the Big ATL you'll get smoked or locked up!:) .

prolly your teacher is looking for closed door students to teach a fightclub and maybe he's worried about his business license so in general class thiers no sparring?.

whad'ya think?.

[Leonidas]

**** right Legend. I found the perfect school for what i'm looking for. I haven't trained there yet but in a couple more months i will. I'm hopefully gonna train with one of Vasiliev's affiliates.

[Ryu]

"Maybe if I changed my name to the "Strangulator" people wouldn't have a preset response reflex for any thing I said ala SD"
:D I'm not getting involved, but I thought that was actually pretty funny. ;)


On another note..... DOES Shuai Chiao have groundfighting?? I thought it did not. If someone has info can they please tell me, provide links, etc.?

Ryu

[HopGar]

One thing before I respond, I got a particularly nasty cut on my finger while working today so if there are alot of spelling mistakes, keep in mind that I'm typing with 9 fingers and not 10.

"Whaddya need Judo/Jujutsu if ya got Shuai man. Just stay up, be patient and train your ass off. Ask that your sifu finally allows you to spar. Dont be a Jackhole about it either or you might not have a sifu after he drops you on your head and kicks your ass outta the kwoon. Judo and Jujutsu basically trains the same thing as Shuai Chiao but different. All 3 of them do Throws and Locks and a bit of groundfighting. I dont know if Hop ga has groundfighting though, ask your instructor about it. "

I know, I was thinking of that. Also, I don't think you know this, but I haven't trained in 2 months b/c I'm flat broke and I need to save money for my trip to Israel next month. I'm gonna ask him as soon as I restart training.

"One question though. Does anyone in your school spar at all and when do they start sparring? After a certain amount of forms or proficiency in certain techniques? Did you ever think that maybe your Sifu doesn't think your ready for it? He prolly doesn't want you developing bad habits. Like i said, maybe you should start training twice as hard and if your really that worried about getting tackled and choked out, get a couple of class mates and practice with them at home. Problem solved"

I don't have a clue who spars and who does not. I admit, I might not be ready for sparring, but I think at least they should done more practical stuff so I could at least get a bit more of a feel of
how Hop Gar works.

Diego, I think you're 100 percent right. The question is how to get it on it.

Legend, I dunno....


I'll figure this out next year after I get back from Israel.

Peace Y'all

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Ryu


On another note..... DOES Shuai Chiao have groundfighting?? I thought it did not. If someone has info can they please tell me, provide links, etc.?

Ryu

Shuai Chiao does not have ground fighting as it is being discussed here. There are holds and follow up attacks that are used to dehabilitate someone after he has been thrown. But nothing in the confines of rolling type positioning. However, passing the guard does take on a whole new persona when you think of the low, Shuai Chiao like soccer kicks as an option. :D

[SifuAbel]

ryu,
:D

legend,
:cool: i get it, just yankin' ya.

Jimbeam23,

You don't know jack.
First off I challenge anyone to do that. And, I don't believe many of you can, trick or not. Especially you. And none of this "i'll talk my way out of it" crap, put up or shut up.
Second, Why don't you show us something other than the shadow of your ass, where most of your thoughts come from.
Thirdly,
I could be a real bad mofo, yet how would you know? Spindly? Hardly. I'm a lean muscular 205, BOY. Not bad for a shorty like me.

[Serpent]

It's a trick, Abel. Give me ten minutes with anyone that's basically strong with a reasonable stance and I can get two guys on their legs like that.

And you 205 lean? Yeah right. 205 grams maybe. I've seen the pictures.

Get over yourself!

[diego]

:p :D Gene must just shake his head when he goes through some of these posts..like i pay 000$z for these fuqnots to chat!.

uh

peas

[Serpent]

:)

[diego]

:p

[SifuAbel]

Slurpie,

put up or shut up, its as simple as that.

Show us. :rolleyes: if you can, doubtful.

You don't have to fight anyone, you don't have to do anything except reproduce that picture.
But not just someone, YOU. BTW both of those guys were around + - 200 lbs. I held it for 2 minutes to take that picture. I'm waiting in anticipation of your "just like that" picture.

Uh, doofus

pictures i took when I was 20 at 165.
I'm 33 now. Do the math.

[Serpent]

You held it for two minutes to take the photo? Was your camera made in 1906 or something?

So at 20 you were 165, now you're a fat *******. Can't say I'm surprised.

In all honesty, Abel, I don't need to inflate my ego with carny trick photos on the web.

[SevenStar]

"Whaddya need Judo/Jujutsu if ya got Shuai man. Just stay up, be patient and train your ass off. Ask that your sifu finally allows you to spar. Dont be a Jackhole about it either or you might not have a sifu after he drops you on your head and kicks your ass outta the kwoon. Judo and Jujutsu basically trains the same thing as Shuai Chiao but different. All 3 of them do Throws and Locks and a bit of groundfighting. I dont know if Hop ga has groundfighting though, ask your instructor about it. "



Not quite. Judo and shuai chiao are similar, but the mechanics of the throws are different, that alone makes it not the same thing. Also, judo has more sweeps, and shuai chiao doesn't have groundwork like bjj and judo do. and judo and bjj don't do "a bit of groundfighting" they do A LOT of groundfighting. judo and/or bjj would be a good complement to shuai chiao. That's what you need it for man.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Leonidas
Wait wait, am i missing something. I thought Shuai (Chiao) was a huge part of Hop gar and Tibetan styles in general and that it DOES contain groundfighting.

see above post.

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by Serpent


In all honesty, Abel, I don't need to inflate my ego with carny trick photos on the web.

Bwahahahahahahaha

Slurpy chirpy burpy,
LOL!
I thought so, you ARE too weak. I knew you would chicken out. The fact is that it would take a guy with strong stance to do this, and you CAN'T do it. Until you can show it, you are constructed of 100% BS.

If not this then something else. Show something, anything. I'm not asking for you to battle royce, cause you know he would choke the entire audience. But if you are going to pic at my pic then you better have something more to back it up than the flatulence that is your opinion.

Tell you what, if you, or anybody for that matter, can reproduce that picture, I will post a current picture of myself and you will have ultimate bragging rights that you one-uped me forever.

Ok here comes the back pedaling "uh, I could do it just like that, but Uh, I'm not going to cause, uh, I'd just rather talk poo about it and, uh,uh,uh,uh,uh,

U......R......SUCH.......A......GIT.

[SDriver]

What picture is this?

[SifuAbel]

About a year and half ago I was in a thread about Horse stance and i posted a pic of myself in horse with two people standing on me. this was just to show the horse not really for anything else. but then people who have never done a horse in their lives say it was some trick or something. I say do it then.

I bet the majority of the them couldn't even get one guy on, much less two.

[SDriver]

I've never done a horse, either, but I believe you. ;)

[NorthernMantis]

Hey you gotta give it up for SifuAbel. Previously an instructor of mine's used to stand on me while doing a horse stance and it wasn't easy! Well I don't remmeber how much he weighed but he's like 5'4 or 5'3 and I had a hard time with that, let alone two - + 200 lbs guys on my legs.

[Shaolindynasty]

It's not that hard more of a mental thing than anything else. Of course you do need some leg strength though.

[Cipher]

I have never seem the pic. Does anyone have it now? I would like to at least try to do it, since I have pretty strong legs, it would be neat to at least test myself.

[Water Dragon]

It doesn't have much to do with strength at all. All it means is that Abel has proper alignment in his stance. I've had my 240 lb teacher hang on my back while I do a single weighted cat stance. Yeah, it sucks. Yeah it hurts. But it's nothing spectacular.

That's not to take away from those who can do it; because a lot of people can't. Even though everyone should be able to.

The point is it's not anything mystical, super human, or even advanced for that matter. It's an alignment test of stance holding.

[Knifefighter]

..sort of. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the post Abel had up was with two guys standing on his thighs. This is actually relatively easy to do, as having someone stand on your thighs is much easier than doing the same thing with someone hanging from your back (as Water Dragon did) or sitting on your shoulders. It has to do with transferring loads and lever arms- if you know anyone who is an architect they can tell you about it, as they use these principles for distributing loads in structural design (a flying buttress is a good example of one of these principles). Circus acrobats also use the principles in their performances all the time.

Anyway, you can demonstrate this for yourself using just a simple barbell. Take a barbell of 150 lbs or so and rest it on your thighs (the closer to your knees, the easier it will be- this has to do with load and lever lengths) while you hold a squat position. Compare this to trying to hold the squat position with the weight on your shoulders. It is much harder in the second example. When you add people into the equation, the load on the thighs becomes even lighter because the people standing on the thighs must hold on to you and this redistributes the load even more.

By the way, I believe that anyone who could hold a squat position for two full minutes with a 400 lb barbell on their shoulders would be able to make it into the Guinness Book of World Records.

[SifuAbel]

"The point is it's not anything mystical, super human, or even advanced for that matter. It's an alignment test of stance holding."

Uh, heeeeeeellooooooooooo.

I never said it was levitation or anything but it ain't no parlor trick. And yes someone with good strength and balance can do it.
So do it.
Stop giving me flak about and do it.
I'm not asking you to fight anybody or eat glass or anything. Just this one simple thing.
The point of this is people are always ready with an opinion of something they have never experienced.

Some of you say its not hard, OK. Show. Do. Be.
This is the easiest thing on the planet to do, take a pic and post it. Come on, this would be the ultimate shut out.

I didn't post that pic for any other reason than to show a horse stance. Its most of you that made this into a federal case.

Squat position and horse stance are not the same. How about two barrels directly on the thighs?

[Leonidas]

Ok, so i screwed up on the part about Shuai Chiao having groundfighting. My mistake. It's still safe to say that the major point of both Judo and Shuai Chiao is to send someone to the pavement 'express mail'. Doesn't matter if its a sweep to knock you on your ass or a throw that drops you on your head, they all serve the same objective. I still think you should wait a while longer before you start cross training, just atleast long enough to know what your style does and does not contain technique wise. Thats just my opinion.



Did you ask your sifu about that sparring thing yet "HopGar" ?

[Knifefighter]

Could you explain the difference between the squat position and the horse stance? Is the horse stance inherently harder or easier to do?


Post your original picture so I can see the exact postion and I'll do it.

[ewallace]

Check your P/M please.

[Knifefighter]

How do I do that?

OK... figured it out.

[jimmy23]

"You don't know jack.
First off I challenge anyone to do that. And, I don't believe many of you can, trick or not. Especially you. And none of this "i'll talk my way out of it" crap, put up or shut up."

Well, i cant juggle either, nor break dance, but that has little to do with fighting. Tricks like that are impressive if youre in the circus, but here on a martial arts forum they dont mean a whole lot, except they make some think you look bad without having to demonstrate any competancy at fighting.


"Second, Why don't you show us something other than the shadow of your ass, where most of your thoughts come from. "

Hmm, hard to "show" anything over the internet, but once again you make refernce to a mans ass. I leave for a year, come back, and ABEL is still obsessed with ****sexuals and man ass. ITs ok, Abel, its not like theres anything wrong with that..... :rolleyes:


"Thirdly,
I could be a real bad mofo, yet how would you know?"

I know by the way you run you mouth off. Ive known too many truly bad men in my day, and believe me, they dont get their panties in a wad nearly as quickly as you do.


"Spindly? Hardly. I'm a lean muscular 205, BOY. Not bad for a shorty like me."

What a brute you are! You awesome physical dimensions are scary and impressive, lol. I still got 30 pounds on you though, and i aint chubby, so youre still wormy to me BOY
:D :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[JusticeZero]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
[B]..sort of. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the post Abel had up was with two guys standing on his thighs. This is actually relatively easy to do, as having someone stand on your thighs is much easier than doing the same thing with someone hanging from your back (as Water Dragon did) or sitting on your shoulders. It has to do with transferring loads and lever arms- if you know anyone who is an architect they can tell you about it, as they use these principles for distributing loads in structural design (a flying buttress is a good example of one of these principles). Circus acrobats also use the principles in their performances all the time.yes, but the point is that it's "easy to do" if you have a good solid stance. If your stance isn't strong, it ceases to be easy because the load will not be centered over a strong structural element, as that is what makes the stance strong, yes? We do a similar thing where someone goes into an esquiva, an evasion similar to a deep lunge, and someone else wanders over and sits on their back for awhile. If you have the esquiva in good form, it's a parlor trick at best. If your form is bad, you're going down.

[JOHNNY]

Originally posted by diego
:p :D Gene must just shake his head when he goes through some of these posts..like i pay 000$z for these fuqnots to chat!.

uh

peas
It gives us laughs at work. So keep it up.
Johnny;)

[SifuAbel]

KF is up to the challenge

Here is a diagram.

horse stance (http://home.earthlink.net/~drhchan/!ma-bo2.jpg)


A four corner or square horse is done with a full straddle of the knees(knees apart as far as possible), the feet under the knees, the toes forward, but in, back straight, thighs parralel to the ground(low). If I were you I'd see if you could hold this for a minute without two people first. Then try one guy with his feet on either hip. Wouldn't want to injure you. he he

When you do have boths guys on you, one foot on the middle of the thigh and one foot next to the hip. 170 pound guys will do , you don't have to do the full 200 per. I'll be nice. hold for 1 minute. then tell me if it was easy. Video might be even better.

So. The general concensus is that this is easy if you have a strong stance. this I don't get. If you have a weak stance you'll fall but if you have a strong stance its a parlor trick that can bare any load? we'll see. It doesn't make sense to me.

I'm disappointed though that someone outside Kung fu is trying this instead of the die hard kung fu guys in here.

jimster
Strength, balance, dexterity, a good base, you don't need these things for fighting? What do you do, levitate to your opponent? I guess you'd have to being 30 pounds overweight.

posting a pic isn't rocket science jimbo. or maybe for you it is hmmmmmmmm.

[Leonidas]

Ok, heres my words of wisdom:


































Whats the big deal?

[jimmy23]

"jimster
Strength, balance, dexterity, a good base, you don't need these things for fighting? What do you do, levitate to your opponent? I guess you'd have to being 30 pounds overweight.

heh, static strength has very little application in fighting. Its most useful on the ground, but since you dont approve of groundword I doubt it would help you there.

BAlance? Well, fighting balance is a lot different , again, than static balance.

A good base? The base developed by horse stance training is never used in a fight, so I certainly dont see the combat applications there.

I may not fit the AMA guidelines for height and weight , but my bodyfat % is only 12%, well within healthy levels.

And yes, it s a parlor trick that has no relevance to real fighting. I love how youre sitting here trying to convince us all that youre stance is such an impressive achievement. I mean, if youre into that sort of thing, good for you, but the combat oriented guys are just going to laugh.

[SevenStar]

archer stance? do you have a pic or some info about it?

[Leonidas]

I think he means the bow(and arrow) stance

[SifuAbel]

Repost for leo

"About a year and half ago I was in a thread about Horse stance and i posted a pic of myself in horse with two people standing on me. this was just to show the horse not really for anything else. but then people who have never done a horse in their lives say it was some trick or something. I say do it then.

I bet the majority of the them couldn't even get one guy on, much less two."

It isn't a big deal, too me. It might be darn impossible for some of you. So, lets get a pic.

JImbeam,
You assume stances all the time, even if you don't know it. I hope being "combat oriented " hasn't blinded you to this fact. Those 230 lbs, is it all in your head? Do you look like a fat cue ball on two skinny legs?

[Skarbromantis]

Abel didn’t hold no stance, the guys jumped on took the picture real quick, got off, Abel dropped to the floor and was heard saying “dam that was one of the hardest things I ever did"
while thinking, "now I got KFO right where I want them, now they have to respect me".

How many other boards did you post it on? Did you make Christmas cards with it and send it to all your friends and to your imaginary students?


Skard1

[wushu chik]

Skarb~
OMG, you are killing me. Please stop making me laugh. My ribs are hurting....imaginary students LOFL. :D

Anyways, on a serious note..."Sifu" Abel, that's a REALLY BAD title for you. You have the attitude of a 4 year old kid that get's peed on in the corner by the older kids. Were you picked on as a child? You sound no more like a Sifu than I do, and I KNOW I AM BAD. Please, see my post on YOUR THREAD, and take my advice...it's good. I think it would make you see the err in your ways.

Ok, back to laughing now at Skarbs post.....
HA H AHAHA HA HA HA HA AHA HA HA AH AH AHA HA

Sorry, done now.

~Wen~

[jimmy23]

"You assume stances all the time, even if you don't know it. I hope being "combat oriented " hasn't blinded you to this fact. "

In combat, you never stay rooted in one stance for any length of time. If you do , you are a target. Lets look at athletics training, for instance (and if you think studying how athletes train has no applicabilty, then you are an even bigger fool than I thought -quite impressive, since I think youre quite the fool) . Footbal players, who must exert huge amoiunts of force, move quickly, change direction in an instant, never practice staic stances- all their drills involve movement. Basketball players, who must be as agile as cats, are always moving and keeping balance. Even muay thai fighters , boxers, and wreslters, NEVER spend time in static stances. While static stances may have their uses for meditation or joint stability (which is why i practice several of them), to emphasize them to the point of carnival tricks is like thinking that making toast over and over will make you a great chef. For combat purposes, a huge waste of time.


"Those 230 lbs, is it all in your head? Do you look like a fat cue ball on two skinny legs?"

Again, you cant come up with a legitimate arguement, so you throw out an insult - a weak insult at that, I mean, at least be clever or original, to this point you appear to have the linguistic ability of a typical seventh grader, and thats a generous estimate.

[SifuAbel]

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah :o


Stop talking, start posting your pics. Come on guys the only one that is willing to at least try is Knifefighter, ironically.

WC, most of your posts are about pleaseing your 'Cuda. You are no one to talk.


There is no way to jump on and take a pic.

I don't use static stances in fighting either, thats just to build strength. It should be easy for you, come on, show us all.

[jimmy23]

odd, I dont have any pics of myself, nor any of me doing martial arts. Like i saidm you must have an obsession with man on man stuff, since youre so obsessed with "seeing my pictures".

You really should just come on out of the closet Abel, your behavior makes it painfully clear which way you like to swing :D

[Brad Souders]

HERE IS ME THROWING A KICK DOES THAT COUNT :)

[wushu chik]

Abel, you are about an idiot. You don't know sh!t about anything, yet, you won't shut your trap. All you have to do is knod your head and smile, yet, you seem to think the whole world owes YOU something. For the love of God, SHUT THE FU(K UP AND LEAVE...go back and kiss ffab's ass for a while. Nobody here cares....and yes, I include the whole WE of us!!

~Wen~

[Xebsball]

nice kick dude

[Serpent]

But what were you kicking? The guy's miles away! :confused:

[Knifefighter]

Abel:
What I would like to see is the original picture (or you can do it again and post that if you like). What I will do is duplicate the same thing you did. The reason for this is that I don't have a digital camera and will have to borrow one and then download onto that person's computer and then transfer it to mine (I'm assuming I can then e-mail it to someone who can put it up somewhere for viewing). Anyway, the whole thing will be a bit of a hassle and I'm only going to do it once (I'm already getting back into my old bad habits of spending valuable time posting here again). If I'm going to do go through the whole rigamarole of doing this, I'd prefer I to do it the exact way you did, so there won't be any coming back and saying that I didn't do it to the same specs as you did.

Serpent:
I wasn't there, but based on the picture, it looks like he is performing a nicely-done follow through of a Muay Thai kick. This is how you follow though if the opponent steps back and evades the kick. The opponent only looks far away because of the angle of Brad's leg to the camera. If the leg were instead in the extended position, it would probably be pretty close to striking range.

[Brad Souders]

LOL The kick had already hit it caught his glove instead of his head and he is already stepped back, and i'm following through cause i throw full hip powered kicks and they are just a little hard to stop mid-way through. I always start each round with a high head kick just to see if i can land it. :)

See i'm just a stupid grappler in a striking tourney anyway ;)

[ewallace]

Please take me back. It'll never happen again! :)

[Skarbromantis]

Post the picture so we can see, and ill do it, no BS, or did you lose the picture and have to re-photoshop it?

Skard1

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
Abel:
What I would like to see is the original picture (or you can do it again and post that if you like).

Working on it. Looking through my archive. It may be easier to take a new digital pic than to rescan the old one. This will take just a little bit of time. Meanwhile I did post a diagram of what horse stance is supposed to look like. Can you do the stance like in the pic for a minute?


Slerpentup,
Blah, blah, blah
At least brad IS showing us something other than text on a page. So is knifefighter, so am I.

[Serpent]

Give me time, Abel monkey. I don't have digital cameras or scanners or anything, but watch this space.

[Serpent]

Brad. I get ya. Good work. ;)

[SifuAbel]

I managed to get another pic fom that series. It's not as square as I usually do it, but it will do.


Two on Horse (http://home.earthlink.net/~drhchan/standingsmall.jpg)


Make sure you can do the horse, like the diagram in the previous post, for at least a minute before attempting this. I would not want anyone sueing me if they get hurt.

Attempting this is at your own risk. I cannot be held responsibe for any injury sustained if attempted.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

im gonna try it once im feeling a little better. unfortunately that might be a while, but ill still try it for my own satisfaction.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

brad .. i would have axe kicked the guy in the wheelchair. it would have landed and made for a way better picture.

[Helicopter]

When we hold horse stance for long(ish) periods, probably only 1.5mins (I used to be able to do nine minutes, but I haven't been practicing the long ones for while and the last time I tried I only managed 5.5 mins), my instructor keeps jokingly threatening to stand on our legs, he probably weighs over 250lbs :( next time I'll take him up on his offer.

[Braden]

Fun stuff... :D

Can we see who can do lower-basin circlewalking next? :D

[wushu chik]

Originally posted by SifuAbel
I managed to get another pic fom that series. It's not as square as I usually do it, but it will do.......
Attempting this is at your own risk. I cannot be held responsibe for any injury sustained if attempted.

Abel,
In all seriousness...how much do those guys weigh?? They look like pretty skinny guys, even the one that is pretty muscular! Personally, I would say this is all about proper weight distribution...but that's just my opinion. What the hell, I am going to try it with a few of my guys tomorrow at class, just to see if it's as big of a deal as everyone thinks it is. Hmmm, wouldn't that be something if I could do it to?? Oh, but wtf am i thinking?? I forgot, I don't know MA at all. :rolleyes:

~Wen~

[wushu chik]

Originally posted by Helicopter
......my instructor keeps jokingly threatening to stand on our legs, he probably weighs over 250lbs :( next time I'll take him up on his offer.

HC~
Sifu does stand on our legs...and he's not quite 250+, he's a big guy!! It sure does make you think about your balance!!! I recommend you try it! You might rethink your horse stance a bit!!

~Wen~

[SifuAbel]

What you don't know is the perspective of it all. The guy on my right is 6'1", he has to bend forward slightly to put his hands on. He was about 180. The guy on my left was built like a brick house. Also 180 at 5'8". I only weighed 175 at the time. Its not enough just hold them, you gotta do at least a minute. This was not my heaviest attempt.

WC,

I wouldn't know you did MA by anything your wrote here, but maybe a picture of you straining in a horse stance could convince me otherwise. :D
Do yourself a favor and try one first In the middle with one foot on each leg.

And again , you do it at your own risk.

[Helicopter]

Hi Wen,
Yeah, he's a big bloke 6' 3", arms the size of my legs, He accidentally cracked one of my ribs the other month demonstrating some 'uprooting'. (If anything I under-estimated his weight, tho' he has got a bit of a belly :) .)

[Shaolindynasty]

Abel you seem to have a "bit" of an ego.

I am curious do you beleive you are the only person who can do a horse stance with some standing on your legs?

In longfist we did that as a regular part of training.

Also, though I just began in CLF my sifu has already mentioned it.

It's really not a big deal. Though there may be allot of people here that can't do it there are plenty that can.

Get over yourself.

[Water Dragon]

ShaolinDynasty,
It's basic training for Shuai Chiao as well. I think it's a lot more common than I thought at first.

[wushu chik]

WC,

I wouldn't know you did MA by anything your wrote here, but maybe a picture of you straining in a horse stance could convince me otherwise. :D
Do yourself a favor and try one first In the middle with one foot on each leg.

And again , you do it at your own risk. [/B][/QUOTE]

Abel~

Yeah, I know about it being my own risk. I don't think I will be able to do it on my left in all honestly due to the condition of my knee, but I am going to try. As I said before, Sifu stands on our legs all the time while in horse stance so it's not going to be that big of a deal like that...but, just gotta make sure I don't wreck my knee again!!!!!! If I can pull it off, I will get a pic taken and post it here, just for you!! Class is at 7, we'll see what happens then!

~Wen~

[SifuAbel]

WC,

If you have knee trouble don't do it. Not because you may not be able to hold it but because the person you choose may not have the balance required and any misstep or torsion may tweak your leg in the wrong way.

SD,

You are no one to speak about Ego.
I'll repeat myself once again, I didn't present this to you all as if nobody could do it. I presented this to those that have opinions on something they've never tried.

Talk is cheap. Show me its easy.

[wushu chik]

Abel...
I have a torn ACL and something to do with the miniscus (sp?). Doen't really give me troubles inless i try to walk :D . I am still contemplating it though...just because I want to see.....

~Wen~

[SifuAbel]

Do NOT attempt two people with a torn ACL!
Do one if you feel up to it. That person should have good balance and should be standing with either foot on each side of your hips. Do NOT let him/her stand near your knees.

NOt a good Idea for those with knee trouble!!

Do this at your own risk!!

[Shaolindynasty]

1. I'm not saying it's "easy" just that allot of schools do this. Therefore assuming that most of us have never done it, is pretty ridiculous.

BTW I am not going to take the time to post a pic of myself doing a horse stance with people on me, i don't have that kind of time, I don't know how to post pics here, I also don't care about you and what you think. If I ever meet you in real life then I'd be happy to show it.

2. I said you have an ego because you seem to think your skill level is higher than most if not all the people here. You also resort to childish name calling pretty easily. Do you teach your students to behave this way?

[SifuAbel]

Yap... yap....yaaaaaaaap.

Yadda..........yadda...........yadda


Blah... blah...blah...blah..blah...blah

More talk...blah...more talk...blah.. even more talk.. blah blab blah

excuses..blah, opinions...blah blah, if this ...blah, if that.... blah, everywhere a blah blah

don't have time...blah, don't know how....blah, but I'll show you...blah, the day I never meet you...blah
Blah... blah...blah...blah..blah...blah

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[old jong]

You forgot "guili guili" and "prout prout"!;)

[old jong]

I have a question!....What would you do if you were caught into this guy's guard?.... (http://uglypeople.com/uglycelebs/section.images/up-celebs-00026.jpg) :confused:

[MA fanatic]

There is nothing wrong with cross training, especially after training in an art for 2 years. Trust me, had he trained in his art for 10 years, the result would have been the same. I see guys come down to our school all the time with years of experience in their chosen arts, and they get humbled by mediocre grapplers. It would be easier if people just admit what their art lacks, and compensate. I'm sure had the masters who created styles like Hop Gar been around now, they would be incorporating grapplign in their arsenal. While we see our arts as having answers to all situation (as long as we train for many years), the master who created these arts, beign inovators, would have been cross training.

I was argueing the importance of cross training with a Shotokan Karate school owner. He spent 15 years in Shotokan, I at the time grappled for 1 year. I was taking him to the ground at will. It wasn't even a challenge. He claimed that his teachers said that Shotokan has the answer to all situations. He also said that some of his kata, primarily the naehanchi, would take at least 10 years to truly understand (just one kata with it's numerous interpretations). Wouldn't it be easier if that instructor actually followed the advice of Shotokan's style's founder, Gichin Funakoshi, who in his book Karate-do My Way Of Life actually advocated for karateka to study grappling?

One can spend 20 years perfecting techniques and forms, and learning subtle variations of various movements and positions. Than that same person could be taken to the ground and beaten silly by someone with Highschool wrestling background. I wouldn't call that 20 year martial artists a master. I'd call him an idiot. Actually, if Bruce Lee would agree (there was a story of him talking to a master who stated that his KungFu was better than Lee's because he practiced longer...Bruce repplied, "yes but all those years you were just rehashing the same thing).
MA fanatic

[SifuAbel]

(chuckleing)You are a legend in your own mind.
Did he hit you for real even once?
Did it ever occur to you he might be trying just to be nice? Shotokan is not my favorite(we would call it robokan as a teaser), too stiff for my taste. It could be a mcdojo too. Point here is that this is way too general. Too much missing information to give this any kind of credit.

But here we have a, now, classic situation where one guy pulls his punches to be nice while the other takes advantage of this and does whatever he wants. This is eaxctly why I don't pull my punches anymore. I cannot count on people knowing they've been "marked". So anytime I've had this situation, I may not go for anything damaging, I give them enough so they know at least that they were hit. It was like the whole ralek vs. shaolintiger(or somebody I can't remeber who now) where ralek claims a huge victory and the other claims that they were just playing and he toyed with him most of the time. Hollow victory either way.

Bruce was full of snappy comebacks, but if you really knew anything about bruces fighting you would see that he too stuck to a few things that worked for him. He too was very "stuck" in his wing chun roots as far as his striking style was concerned. Even with all the boxer stepping he liked to used while prancing for the camera. He had this same kind of discourse with shek kan, but he didn't come away with a win after they sparred. Bruce was a bit of a romantic, he could never say anything without making it sound like a zen proverb. Learn this, throw out that, rip it apart, put it back together. Typical sixties revisionism, I bet his tune would have changed a bit if he lived to the present day. I bet his "forms are useless" quote would have changed to "see the abstract". He was very rash in some of the things he's said, some innovative some contradictory in terms. One must truely go beyond form into the abstact, but one doesn't need to destroy anything to get there.

[chokeyouout]

Where did you see Bruce Lee fight?In the movies?Just curious.

[Braden]

wtf... Bruce Lee was a martial artist?

Wow. Learn something new everyday.

:D

[Le nOObi]

Actually MA Fanatic is making some pretty good points. The hop gar school doesnt sound great anyway since it has no sparring i would just take bjj instead.

[Shaolindynasty]

Abel- of course this is all talk blah blah blah......it's an internet forum, dumb@ss. I find things more important in the real world and come here to have fun.

[SifuAbel]

Yap... yap....yaaaaaaaap.

Yadda..........yadda...........yadda


Blah...blah...blah...blah..blah...blah

More talk...blah...more talk...blah.. even more talk.. blah blab blah

excuses..blah, opinions...blah blah, if this ...blah, if that.... blah, everywhere a blah blah

don't have time...blah, don't know how....blah, but I'll show you...blah, the day I never meet you...blah
Ol' mcdonald Blah...blah...blah...
Blah blah...blah blah....blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

[SifuAbel]

Still waiting for the nay sayers pics.

So far, Crimsons done it, found it hard. I want a pic next time.

Kf is going to do it. I want a pic.

Brad has showed us some actual fight pics. Way to go brad.

And all the nay sayers are floundering like halibut. :rolleyes:

[NafAnal]

the thighs are hardly parallel to the floor now are they?

[SifuAbel]

They're not 45 degrees either. I'm only 15 degrees off in that pic. But again talk is cheap.

[NafAnal]

how long did you say those dudes stood there for?

[SifuAbel]

2 minutes

[Syre]

Getting back to the topic, HopGar's school is rather expensive:

http://www.hopgar.com/courses/

$100 a month minimum, up to $350 a month for Chi Kung.

At that rate, they should be able to afford insurance.

Why do I feel that people who charge a whole lot are less likely to be teaching the real stuff than people who charge less?

[Brad Souders]

I'm not the brightest person here for many reasons but i do have a question. What the h*ll does having your legs stood on have to do with anything? Discussion among yourselves. :eek:

[Tigerstyle]

Brad,
That was a rehash of an old thread about Horse Stances. One of the posts on that thread was some pics by SifuAbel with him in a Horse Stance and a couple of dudes standing on his legs. Some people were raggin' on Abel when those pics were posted (most likely just to rile him up. Monkeys get mad when you poke at 'em. j/k :p ).

Anyhoo, Jimmy23 (I think) brings it up in this thread on Page 4, because they seem to not like each other :) . As for why it's still being discussed on this thread? :confused:

At least it's kung fu related. (Not that it matters to me. I post way less relevant topics)

[SifuAbel]

yep, thats pretty much it.

I'm not riled, I just like to push the envelope. :p

And yes It has nothing to do with this thread. So what, we're not writing a revision to the bible or anything.