Southern Praying Mantis Teachers in NYC

[DavidLatin]

Can anyone tell me who teaches SPM in New York City?
(I don't want critiques or arguments over whose better)
I would prefer only contact information.

Thanks guys :D

[fukien]

No matter who you pick, if they don't "play hands" with the students,
all you are learning is how to dance.

The art SPM is transmitted "hand to hand".

All the forms in the world mean very little if that all you get,
but then that all most people are satisfied with as they think
the skill is found in the forms alone.

Caveat Emptor!ü

[Juggler]

Play hands?

No no no no, we don't 'play hands' in Southern Praying Mantis.

We fight with our hands.

[phantom]

Unfortunately, I do not know the address, location, or phone number of the school. I hope this helps. Peace. :D

[fukien]

The term "playing hands" is in reference to teaching and practicing.
Not actual combat.

Who is your teacher?

Does he "touch hands" with his students?
Or does he have them practice outside hitting range,
or just let them hack like butchers at each other?

The ONLY way you get the "feeling" and "sensitivity" of SPM
is by DIRECT CONTACT with someone better than you, someone
who can guide your skill upwards, wether that is a senior or a Sifu,
SOMEONE has to "put the art in your hands".

[fukien]

Chin Sifu is the greatest Southern Lion Dance teacher in NYC!

You may find him at the Chinatown YMCA 100 Hester Street.

[Juggler]

Sorry, Fukien, I thought you were insulting SPM.

No offence intended.

[DavidLatin]

What do you like so much about that guy's lion dancing?

[fukien]

You have never heard of the term "play hands"?

Does your teacher let you "feel his hands" in 2 man drills,
or do you just do forms?

[fukien]

To his credit, he is the only one in Chinatown who
teaches Liondancing for free on Saturday mornings.

You WILL however have to listen to his "sales pitch"
about joining his school as a paying student.

Caveat Emptor

[mantis-1]

To the reference to "No no no no, we don't 'play hands' in Southern Praying Mantis.

We fight with our hands." well said but rather our hands fight by themselves.

I don't hit, it hits all by itself...bruce lee

[DavidLatin]

Is that the only person that teaches that system in NYC?

[fukien]

He is the only one with an "open school", that is, anyone with cash can join.
Cash for monthy fee's (three months upfront), and if you manage to hang around
for a year, you get the privelege of paying several hundred dollars to become a
"disciple". He does not accept checks or CC's. You must first learn several modified
Hung Gar and Choy Lee Fut forms before he shows you whatever Mantis he chooses
to share with you.

Everyone else is "Closed Door", that is you cannot just walk in, pay and join.

Caveat Emptor..

[DavidLatin]

How does one go about contacting the closed door teachers?
What does one have to do or prove to be accepted into their classes?

[fukien]

"You don't find SPM....it finds you" is an old saying.

There are Masters in Chinatown who won't teach for ANY amount of money
as the art in thier hands is priceless. They dole it out at thier whim to those they
deem worthy. The more you want to learn SPM, the more desperate you become
(or seem to be) closes the doors even tighter. A true teacher can only instruct a
handful of students (usually 5) at a time because of the "hand time" needed
with each student.

Those who have public schools do not "touch hands" with thier students,
except to collect monthly dues and "gate fees""

[fgxpanzerz]

fukien, doesnt it sound strange that u have to learn some hung gar forms and choy li fut before learning SPM and then only teaches u wut he wants to afterwards? I know why it sounds strange...CAUSE NORMIN CHIN IZ PULLING YOR CHAIN FUKEIN! I'm sure u got the whole speech about, "U have to prepare yorself internally before u can learn the 3-step arrow form." hahaha. And to become a "real disciple," it costs thousands! not hundreds. I dont study SPM formally, and I bet I know more than u do. hahaha!

[fukien]

I have (fortunetly) never been a student of Norman Chin.

His reputation is well known.

Go see his class, and ask yourself why there are so few Chinese in his class! ;-)ü

[fgxpanzerz]

HIs reputatoin iz well known...but how well do u konw it? I met Normin Chin once and Milton Chin. I would much rather like to see Milton CHin in action, personally.

[Hiram]

I study from time to time with Mr. Norman Chin and I find him to be a very nice guy. I know he has good reasons to stick to the format he has chosen.

Please just stick to the topic. If they all degrade :rolleyes: like this one, the administrators will never let us discuss this wonderful art. (Let's be civil)

[fukien]

Hiram, you train "from time to time"?

You train for ....Restaurant shows? Cultural Events? Lame Tournaments thown by Norman's buddies?

Lots of forms to learn....Hung Gar, Choi Li Fut, ....etc. But how much can you USE? Where's the MANTIS?

Has Norman taught you the breakdowns and practical applications of the forms?

How about proper Jook Lum breathing and stretching techniques?

e

[Hiram]

The difference between you and I is that I don't hide behind aliases. My name is Hiram Viera. I am from Connecticut, and I train "from time to time" due to to the fact that I work full time, go to college four days a week, aaaand :eek: I have quite a ways to travel to class.

I am giving a first hand account based on my opinion of Mr Chin. I form opinions based on experience, not gossip or "reputations". There's no need to constantly trash people fukien, that only reveals the flaws in your character. I am not perfect myself but...
Can't we just stick to the topic??

[fukien]

Your entire "account" of Norman is that you "find him to be a very nice guy" and you
"know" he has a reason for the things he does.

How do you "know" these things? Has he told you, or are you operating on blind faith?

Have you learned any breakdowns , applications, stretching or breathing techniques of
the Jook Lum system? After all, his is supposed to be Jook Lum school. Not a Hung Gar
or Choi Li Fut school.Í

[fgxpanzerz]

first of all, none of use cares about yor little "full time" life or yor real name, hiram. Secondly, wut are u getting all defensive about fukien? God! Gin foon Mark, now there's a guy I'd like to meet him one day. Anwayz, wut iz the topic!? Just cause Normin teaches lion dancing, that dont make him the Blue Fairy. Any idiot who has legs can learn to lion dance. Anyone here gonna fight in the Wong Fei Hung Tournament? The Keyword iz "FIGHT," not forms competition, or chi sao, or weapons.

[fgxpanzerz]

I heard that the students at Normin Chin's school practice bareknuckled and that anyone who asks for gloves gets laughed at. THis true? And I also heard Normin Chin runs his school the same way Chan Bong does: if yor white he just takes yor money and strings u along teaching u jack. Iz this also true? ARe u guys his "real" students or do u just go down to the YMCA and get charity lessons?

[fukien]

If all one does is practice forms, then "bareknuckled" means nothing.
F

[Hiram]

fgxpanzerz,
I was responding to fukien's initial question with regard to my statement of "from time to time", in order to clarify for him. Once again I must say that I, unlike some of you, do not hide behind aliases. I have reviewed my prior statements and I fail to see where I adopted a "defensive" stance on the issue. Your opinion is duly noted.

fukien,
Yes, I have learned breathing exercises and form applications.

[Cincinnatus]

I'd like to ask a question to whoever it was that said that teachers who teach SPM publicly is teaching nothing but crappola; What about Gin Foon Mark? He's acknowledged by most to be the premiere representative of Jook Lum in the US (at least I have not seen any websites or forums posts to the contrary :)) and he has been teaching publicly for many many years. Are you saying he's also not teaching the full SPM? That would mean his students have been getting jipped for decades! I'm not trying to start an argument, just looking for clarification.

By the way, Great Ghost of Elvis!! You people sure stay up late to cruise the web. Think of all the Chi that's being expended...;)

What we do in life, echoes in eternity
--Maximus Decimus Meridius, General of the Army of the North, Commander of the Felix Legions

[lui1828]

fgxpanzerz
------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the warning about Norman Chin and his
"disciple classes". In the early 70's I became a
special student to a teacher from the Moy Yat line. I paid $1,000 for this honor. For the money I was shown the secret techinque of the two thumb eye poke.
BEWARE!! If any MA teachers demand special fees for disciple traning. You are sure to be conned.
The fact that the teachers is Asian is no guarantee that he is any more honest than the next crook.

I plan to post to the Kung Fu forum the topic of
Special Student Traning. All those MA Con Artist should be exposed. I will tell my experince with MOY YAT and his special students

[Sai Lo Jai]

Hello. Sorry you had a bad experience with one of my sihings. I mean no disrespect and I don't want to cause you further grief by picking at an old wound of yours. However, If you are able to discuss it, I am interested in your story. If you would prefer, feel free to contact me privately. If you don't, I understand.

I wrote about a similiar situation a while ago. It was my first post to these forums. Here is the link if wish to read it.

A message to Turdkicker and Jojitsu27 ... (http://forum.kungfuonline.com/1/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=126197291&f=769195302&m=4871917111)

While, I am sure, you had your reasons, why didn't you go to Moy Yat directly if you wanted to learn Ving Tsun in NYC?

I am very curious with whom you trained in the early 1970s. Moy Yat emigrated to the US in 1973. Since nearly all of his senior students were still in Hong Kong, Moy Yat had virtually no senior students in NYC until after 1975. A senior student, Henry Moy, arrived in NYC around that time too, but, I don't believe he started teaching until many years later.

About the only person of whom I can think, if memory serves, would be Lee Moy Shan. Still, since he didn't start teaching until about late 1974, we may just be uncovering an interesting mystery.

<a href="http://www.moyyat.com" target="_self">
<img src="http://www.moyyat.com/images/flower-small.gif" border=0 width=69 height=63 alt="In Loving Memory"></a>

[fukien]

It is well kown that Moy Yat charged Three Thousand dollars to become a "disciple".
This far more than Norman ever charged at one bite.

However, it was NOT a "filtering process", it is merely greed.

True gung fu is taught though friendship and ability, not deep pockets.
0

[fgxpanzerz]

"friendship and hardwork"

Fukien, if u became ever became a real disciple of Normin Chin's, lemme tell ya, u'd have a big hole in yor pocket cause u'd have to dig deep to pay the fees. ABout that thing u said where a person pays a few hundred dollars, garbage. Those are people who think they're getting the real deal. ARe u one of these hundred dollar "disciples," fukien?

[fgxpanzerz]

He wasnt the hot stuff everyone thinks he is. His bong sau iz wrong

[fiercest tiger]

this is bull****e, southern mantis, yau kung mun, bak mei cant spar like this because it would inflict too many injuries. This depends on the way you have been shown the techniques, i thought most mantis techniques kill or break limbs like yau kung mun. so how can you sparr with bare knuckles without the intent to take your partner out! cannot punch the throat, temple, eyes, organs, dont you get taught dim mak applications of your moves, where and how to strike with your phoenix eye, hammers, claws??


i think someone isnt telling the truth! i would rather spar with bag mitt then use no gloves at all. we have sensitivity sparring where, trapping, palms, hammers, and seizing is aload only, no phoenix eye's!! then if you use ging its another story.... :rolleyes:

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

fiercetiger,

I've heard this all before- the moves are too powerful and deady. Please leave the room while i do do the form.

I think you've overestimated Yau Kung Mun and Southern mantis techniques.


Maximus Maximize!
ego_maximus@hotmail.com

[fgxpanzerz]

Forget all this "dangerous and deadly" technique myth. ALL gung fu styles have "dangerous and deadly" techniques. Southern Mantis doesnt have anything special accept for shock power, in my opinion. And, how can u practice using yor phoenix eye fist if u have a glove on? How can u practice the grabs and nerve strikes with gloves? Maybe, fierce tiger, u arent in a real SPM school or wutever u were calling it.

[fiercest tiger]

you guys are d!ckheads, you see have you been hit with a full power phoenix eye fist? i bet you havent and by the sounds of it you havent!!

you can spar light without gloves and restricted areas yes, but when your techniques and fighting principles tell you to hit the throat, temple, eyes then dont you think someone will get hurt?!

you guys are funny!

if you live in sydney australia, i would love to see you spar full contact no holding back, no gloves. unless your kung fu is that bad you cannot punch hard enough to hurt anyone!

deadly tehcniques oooo! hahahahahaha ego you are a toss! :eek:

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[lui1828]

When Moy Yat arrived in NYC he placed an ad in the Chinese newspapers. I had a Cantonese friend call Moy Yat for info. Moy Yat had a special grand opening prices. The first 10 students would be charged $1,000 the next ten $2,000, the next $3,000... Of course it was cash only.

And these were "low" rates offered to Chinese students only.
By the time the ranks of his special students had swelled to the 100's it would cost $10,000.
I know for a fact that Moy Yat quoted this price to prospective marks, er, i mean students.

Did any one ever pay that amount ??
An article by Robert Chu (??) alluded to this method of teaching WC. It's called the Begging Palm.

[fgxpanzerz]

It's a good thing the world iz a little more cultured or no one would be learning gung fu. But nowadayz, u have to watch who yor teach iz cause there are lots of fakes and bad teachers out there.

Back to SPM. ARe u bragging about being hit by a full force pheonix eye fist? Cause if u are then that's retarded. "I got hit by one. HAHA! I'm amazing. I bet u never got hit by a pheonix eye fist."

hehe. I got hit slightly hard by one once and it's nothing to brag about.

[fiercest tiger]

i have put people in hospital from a phoenix eye strike, im not bragging i havent been hit thank god!

but you must be stupid to spar without gloves. are you talking about a REAL punch here, not a half a$ punch.

f@ck it i dont know why im answering your post! :mad:

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[BIU JI]

What the f*ck is "slightly hard" meaning, certainly doesn't sound like a full fledged phoenix, sounds like full fledged toss!
Yes, you certainly are amazing, the quality of crap dribbling from your gob is of the highest level, don't dissapoint us with your Gung fu , I'm sure it's the same. If you think you can take a phoenix eye strike with it being "no big deal" then pay for my airfare, accomodation and I'd gladly be proven wrong by you.
Either that or who ever hit you with it couldn't punch a hole through sh!t! You guys really are wankers!

:p :D ;) :eek: :mad: :rolleyes: :o :cool: :confused: :)

[lui1828]

let's move the topic of Moy Yat's lineage special students to the Wing Chung forum. I'll post my experience there.

[Bak Mei]

OK, you need to stop bath mouthing Sifu's who are of a much higher level than yourself.

My Mantis is from a disciple of Milton Chin who has also studied with Norman Chin and Gin Food Mark. What you say is not true.

I am now a student of Master Chan Bong. Again, what you say is not true. I have had the PRIVELEAGE of studying with Master Chan Bong for only 7 moths, but let me tell you they have been the most fruitful seven monbths of my martail career. He has held back nothing. In fact, he has given me toooo much. I can't keep track of it all and study it all, simply too much for this short period of time.

I know what you are thinking. How would I know if he's holding back. Well, I'm not a kook. Been studying since I was 4 years old. Isshin ryu (4 to HS, 2nd degree Black (not a cracker jack school, hard core, breaking bricks by 11 or 12)Hung Gar/Wing Chun, Mantis and now Hsing-I, Ba Gua.

You bad mouth Milton Chin and Norman Chin. You speak down about Master Chan Bong. Who do you suggest then? Who is left that is worth a ****? Should we go study at the local TKD.

Chan Bong is the best that I have ever seen in my 24 years of MA experince ... period. If he he;ld back it was not because of your skin, but your skill or attitude. He's the first to say he will not play forevites in regard to race but that he is human, and if you show him respect and treat him well, it is only natural that he be more open with you.

Besides being the only true master that I have ever come across (most people claiming that title I would not even call sifu)he is genuinely a good man. Please, no need to bath mouth the man. At 60 years old he has seen more and fought more gung fu than most of the people on this board combined.

As for the Hung Gar tournament -- "fighting not forms" -- do you consider that gung fu fighting? Looks like very sloppy kick boxing to me. ZERO technique.

The people that do well there every year are associated with my old mantis sifu. They either win or get disqualified every year. You'll notice them.

Stillness in the heart of motion.

[Sai Lo Jai]

It appears that the moderator of the other area of the forum has seen fit to remove your topic from there, so I will post a reply to what you said here.


Again, I do not mean to and cannot defend or excuse anything my sihing may or may not have done to you. That matter is really between you and him. However, I am sorry you feel so strongly about this that you sat in silence 28 years until after your teacher's teacher was dead and subscribe to this forum for the sole reason to bring up this issue. That's a serious grudge.

I hope you will soon find a way to let go. Since you have not contacted me privately and prefer to remain anonymous on this issue, I hope that this "public airing" of your feelings gives you some sense of relief.

The amount my sifu asked for was never higher than 3,000 dollars. I suppose he may have said 10,000 to specific people. If he did, I am sure it was to immediately "turn off" someone so that person would go away quickly. I have personally witnessed him say and do things purely intentioned to make someone go away. Usually, it was not with money, though he used that, too. Yip Man, in his later years, was legendary for this tactic, also. I understand he would go so far as to stop talking to someone for good because that person spilled tea on the table.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>He never touched hands with the students.
I guess Moy Yat wanted to see real money before he showed the "real stuff".[/quote]

No, actually, that was one aspect of his teaching method. The theory behind my sifu's way could probably fill several books. There really was a method to what appeared to some as madness. However, no one ever pretended it would be suitable for everyone. It takes a "special" kind of student and a "special" kind of teacher to pull it off. ;) Suffice to say, for now, it worked for many, but not all, of Moy Yat's students.

Additionally, on any given day it is difficult to judge what a class with anyone is like. That's just the nature of a "snapshot" view of a given day at any school you go to. Sometimes, you click. Sometimes, you are turned off.

Many people have expectations which go unfulfilled in their training and their life. Though the same is true for any endeavor, martial arts, in particular, are not for everyone. It is impossible for any one man to be all things to all prospective students; certainly not during only one class, anyway. :)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I am ****ed that I fell for the Lee Moy Shan special student scam. I know of other
special students that felt cheated also[/quote]

Yes, there are many who share your view not only of him but of Moy Yat himself and others. What can I say? Every single one of them is absolutely entitled to their opinion. No one can change it. Nor would I try.

I, myself, fell for something similar in 1984 when I believed a Ving Tsun instructor who told me that Moy Yat had passed away. As it turned out, I only studied at that school for a very short time before I quit. When the urge to study the style arose within me a few years later, imagine my surprise and how stupid I felt when I found Moy Yat standing in front of me alive and well.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Robert Chu wrote an article about this practice. He alluded to a famous w.c master's
technique as the Begging Palm.[/quote]

I have never met Robert Chu. However, I do know that he studied with a student of Lee Moy Shan's for a long time. As for Mr. Chu's article, would you be surprised to find out that Moy Yat actually thought it was pretty good? By the way, the "begging palm" is properly called "Tan Sao." :)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I forgot the other secret technique. Can a special student remind me of it ?[/quote]

"sao gerk song siu, mo jit jiu" - If you control the hands and feet, there are no secrets. - Ving Tsun Kuen Kuit.

Yip Man felt very strongly that this one Hao Kuit was truly Ving Tsun. So much, in fact, that he had my sifu and Chi Nam Kwong carve it in stone almost 40 years ago.

Lastly, if you are, in actuality, a "special student," you are always welcome at the school. You are welcome not just as a guest, but as a long lost family member. A relationship was and is always there. What can be done to make it stronger and/or reconcile? I don't know. You may not want anything like that after so long. But, I truly am sincere in saying that I hope you find whatever you are looking for.

<a href="http://www.moyyat.com" target="_self">
<img src="http://www.moyyat.com/images/flower-small.gif" border=0 width=69 height=63 alt="In Loving Memory"></a>

[Sai Lo Jai]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>He (Moy Yat) wasnt the hot stuff everyone thinks he is. His bong sau iz wrong [/quote]

If you thought it was bad before, you should have seen it after his second stroke. And, If you thought it was bad after his second stroke, just imagine the difficulty now.

Moy Yat is gone. I was with him when he past away at his house earlier this year. Yet, still, I can learn from him. That's a good teacher.

<a href="http://www.moyyat.com" target="_self">
<img src="http://www.moyyat.com/images/flower-small.gif" border=0 width=69 height=63 alt="In Loving Memory"></a>

[Bak Mei]

Tom, I disagree with WC in a few areas but you are a good student. May your sifu's soul rest in peace and may you carry on his lineage succesfully.

People will always talk ...

Stillness in the heart of motion.

[durian]

Tom, you are a true gentleman; a credit to your sifu and the wing chun style. If only more folks were as even-keeled as you are...

[fgxpanzerz]

I dont remember specifically badmouthing any high level sifus in particular. If I did, oops, sorry. However, I do remember posting a question about if certain sifus lead u around and make u pay a lot without teaching u d*ck. I know a guy who was given the runaround by Chan Bong. That's where I get my info from. By the way, just cuz people do well at the tournament, it doesnt mean they are necessarily skilled. The judges are biast toward their own school. It's a known fact.

To the guy who was bragging about putting people in the hospital with his pheonix eye fist:

I'm sure yor really really dangerous. But who cares. Once, I got hit by a car. The ambulance rushed me to the hospital but when I got there I found out my time and money was being wasted cause there was nothing wrong with me. Could this have not been the case with those people u sent to the hospital with yor dreaded Phoenix eye fist? haha. If u respond to this then my point will have been proven.

[fukien]

A great many people are blinded by those who use the term "sifu" before thier names,

It means TEACHER.

It does NOT mean...enlightened, honest, caring, law-abiding, teetotaller, non-gambler or better person.

Never has, never will.

Please do not reply about the mythological pious trancendental Masters and all that crap.

Hakka Arts are for KILLING.g

[BIU JI]

What is your point exactly? Now you got hit by a car and survived, first it was "I'm so amazing I survived a dreaded phoenix eye " and now it's automobiles. Next you'll tell us you're the jung shee of some secret iron body system and it's all part of you tests. I'll be impressed when you stand in front of a train. What was it a match box car!!
Are you sure you study gung fu or you just look at the pretty pictures?! Fool! :eek:

[David]

Biu Ji, I can now reveal you are Mr T out of the A-Team children's tv series:

"Are you sure you study gung fu or you just look at the pretty pictures?! Fool! :eek: "

Only Mr T would say that. And, checking your profile, it says you're male so that proves it.
:D

The powers of Kung Fu never fail!
-- Hong Kong Phooey

[Crimson Phoenix]

Fukien, thanks, I was getting tired of reminding it every time!

[fukien]

The Hakka people didn't have time to contemplate life on the mountaintop, they had to survive.

They had to fight starvation, poverty, predudice and all of thier fellow Chinese who hated them.

The Hakka arts were also called "Black Arts" because they wer e, in effect, dirty fighting.

And the Hakka themselves were no angels either.

It is really sad the way Americans swallow the crap that anyone who calls themself "Sifu" puts down thier throats.

[Crimson Phoenix]

You're a Hakka aren't you?
Just wondering, you speak like...you speak like someone dear to my heart when she would feel blue and tell me her story...

[fiercest tiger]

i like MR T!

gold chains and sh!t... ;)

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[spmkf]

I really recommend Norman Chin to anybody who wants to learn southern mantis.....everybody seems to be talking a lot of bad stuff about him but they wouldnt know because they never trained with him.....I have been training with him for a while and if you are dedicated enough then he will teach you what you deserve.........and no, he doesnt charge several hundred extra dollars to learn sam bo jin. And no, Norman Chin is not cheap with money. And no, he is not commercial.............he happens to be very traditional. Dont believe what all the other people are saying......they never trained with him and if they did, they would most likely regret what they said. So give his class a try if your interested. And also.....there are several students who have been with him for over ten years.


SPMKF




Dont believe what these fake people are saying

[nyhakka]

I know a couple of good SPM sifus in NYC area. One friend of mine just got appointed to teach at the Chinese Mason Assoc, he is the first non-Asian in history to be given this honor!!!PM me if any are interested.:D :cool:

[Sam]

James Cama Sifu of the New York ChineseFreeMasons Athletic Club is excepting inquiries for training in Traditional Kwong Sai Jook Lum Gee Tong Long Pai of Grand Master Lam Sang's Lineage. Email him at JCama108@aol.com

[jo]

I really recommend Norman Chin to anybody who wants to learn southern mantis.....everybody seems to be talking a lot of bad stuff about him but they wouldnt know because they never trained with him.....

How much does he charge for "First Gate" these days?


I have been training with him for a while and if you are dedicated enough then he will teach you what you deserve.........and no, he doesnt charge several hundred extra dollars to learn sam bo jin.

Thats right. First you learn a bunch of Hung Gar then SBJ, on to 18 Points and THEN its many hundred dollars for the "First Gate".

Hey, its your time and money.

Have a nice day.

-jo

[TenTigers]

gwok-si, gwok-faht
I have always been told that styles like SPM and Bak Me were "finishing sty;es" one Bak Me Sifu is quoted with saying, "We don't teach students, we teach Sifus."
I can tell you this: My Hung Kuen training made a big difference in me being able toabsorb the system and understand the power development. Using the short power of SPM is understandable to those who have developed whole body power. As one Sifu has told me, Hung Kuen develops the entire power chain and Jook Lum deals with the last link, but you still need the entire development. Mark Foon trained in Bak Hok P'ai and Hung Kuen before learning Jook Lum, and Sifu Chin teaching Hung Kuen and Tai Gik Kuen before Sam Bo Gin, is a prefect succession in development. Those who are spoiled children and feel that they should learn what they want, wnen they want it, have already shown why they have been taught what they have been taught. If you haven't gotten anywhere in the system, you canlook in two places; your Sifu, and yourselves.
Where are you looking?

[Southern Fist]

:D Cool words Ten Tigers.

Peter Pena

[Sam]

What is most important in any system is to get the hand. When Grand Master Lam Sang would do a form he would make it slightly new to keep it "live". The hand and where it hits is whats important. Forms are just a practice for the reality of combat. Knowing how to react, and where and how to hit is the key.