Striking while on the ground

[KnightSabre]

I replied on one of the other threads but thought it could open up a seperate debate. ;)

Adding strikes on the ground is harder than many think,

Striking against a good grappler would mean striking from an inferior position as most of the time the grappler would get the dominant position.

We often add striking into our groundfighting and what we've found is that this gives the better grapplers an even bigger advantage.
An example would be, I get mount on my partner,there are no strikes aloud so I'm going for submissions,he tucks his arms in and protects them from keylocks and armbars,he also protects his neck from neck cranks and chokes.
This can make it difficult for me to get the submission while he is playing the defensive game,

Add striking however and from the same mounted position I can out punch him,he can no longer simply protect his neck and arms or he will get knocked out,this will often result in him making a mistake and extending an arm for an armbar or he may (depending on his experience) turn over and give you his back.

The only time I've seen a grappler beat a more experienced one with strikes on the ground was when the more experienced one had never practiced striking on the ground and only played the sport game.

Lets hear it guys :)

[Ish]

whats stopping the person you have in the mount hitting you back.

[KnightSabre]

Well nothing stops the guy from trying to hit you back except that he will most likely lose the battle 95% of the time.

Firstly you have gravity on your side,
Secondly his shoulder are on the floor and thus he is unable to twist his body when he punches,this GREATLY reduces his power and also reduces his reach.
If you are good at striking from the mount you can actually hit your apponent while he cannot reach you.

[rogue]

What about if you don't have the mount or aren't locked up yet? I've seen kicks work real well with both guys on the ground but not yet locked up. In the real world not all ground fights end up in the mount or guard.

But in regards to your setup and depending upon position, couldn't the person on the bottom situp, cinch the top mans waist and hug in tight? I don't know what the next move would be but there must be something.

[KnightSabre]

"What about if you don't have the mount or aren't locked up yet? I've seen kicks work real well with both guys on the ground but not yet locked up."

Thats true,Renzo Gracie knocked out Oleg Taktorrov with a kick to the face from the open guard position.

Once locked up though it's more difficult to apply kicks propperly,
u can do Royces kidney kicks from the guard as well as knee from side control or how Mark Coleman knocked out Alan Goes.
Iapart from those examples it's easier to use your hands to strike though.

[KnightSabre]

Sorry I forgot to answer your second question

"But in regards to your setup and depending upon position, couldn't the person on the bottom situp, cinch the top mans waist and hug in tight?"

This is not a very good idea,if the person ontop keeps his body upright he will be able to strike you in the head with his elbow.
This exact thing happenned to Scott Morris when he got mounted by Pat Smith,he tried to hold onto Pats body but Pat just started blasting him with downward elbow strikes.
That must be one of the worst beatings I've seen someone take in the UFC.

There are other things you can do to escape from that position that are far safer.

[rogue]

and they are what Mr Smarty Pants?:D

It's good to see someone else tried my bad idea out before me. Is that fight on tape?

[Tigerstyle]

KnightSabre,
I think that there is a slight compromise for the top man to throw the strikes. The focus on remaining in the top mounted position is lessened a bit as he focuses more on striking the bottom person.

Due to the shifted focus, a couple of mount-reversals might have a slightly better chance at being successful. Provided the bottom person stays relaxed (as in not panicky) and composed (and able to defend/handle the strikes).

If the reversal is successful, the bottom man is now top man (probably in the guard) and now in a better position to strike. Striking from the guard has proven very effective (in MMA events, at least) if the top person can keep a wide base, and "stack" the opponent or pin them against a wall, fence, etc.


Then again, the bottom man's focus on reversing would probably be different too, with punches raining down. Concentrating on defending the strikes could lessen the effectiveness of a reversal. Also, the (possible) desperation of being in that position can give the bottom person enough of a push to succeed, or it could make him "freeze up" and lose focus altogether.


I'm dizzy and confused now. I don't know quite which side I was supporting (both, maybe?) :confused:

[KnightSabre]

Rogue,

The first safe escape would be to start bridging violently and in quick succession,this will upset his balance and he will most likely have to give up striking in order to stay ontop,
You need to try and secure one of his arms,then bridge straight back throwing his weight behind you,once you have reached maximum bridging height you roll to the side of the arm you trapped and end up in his guard.

Another safe escape would be the shrimp escape.
You start off by covering your head with your hands and exposing your elbows towards your apponent,now you start performing crunches rapidly and side to side,this makes hitting you difficult because you keep moving and your elbows keep getting in the way,then suddenly and explosively you shrimp high up onto your opposite shoulder and push hard onto his knee thigh area,at the same time you shrimp your bottom leg through and get half guard,shrimp the other way and pull your other leg through for full guard.

We have done both of these many times with guys punching hard and they are both effective.