Tai Chi ball & long spear

[Choke]

I'm not sure exactly what they are called but I was wondering if anybody out there practices exercises using a heavy ball and/or long spear/staff as part of your internal work?

If so, what do these exercises do for the practioner?



Thanks in advance.
Choke

[Confucius]

choke to my knowledge no a taijijuan practitioner wouldnt use a heavy ball for training because it is weight training..

weight training cant in any way help cultivate internal energy

i can understand the spear or wudang straight sword for visualization but besides that theres no reason for a taiji practitioner to use them

[dezhen2001]

In many systems of gong fu there are usually different weapons.

Chen Taijiquan for instance has the straight sword (Jian), Broadsword (Dao), Spear (Qiang), big sword (Da Dao) and others...Although i don't train these, even Wing Chun has 2 weapons. The 6 1/2 point pole (Luk Dim Boon Gwun) and 8 chopping knives (Baat Jam Do).

I do know that these are used to help develop many things, structure, footwork, movement, internal energy and jing (power). As well as this they help condition the external body as well as the inside. This follows the principle of yin and yang. Have you ever tried lifting a Da Dao or Spear before? Let alone using it like the form... they are heavy and need alot of skill! :D Even though a skill is internal, you have to use your whole body... otherwise you won't have the correct connection... from my limited understanding so far anyway :)

Sorry i have never heard of the Taijiquan ball... but i'm sure there is a reason for it... If you ask over in the Southern Forum, i know Yau Kung Mun uses a heavy ball in their system. Maybe Fiercest Tiger can explain more? :)

good luck,
david

[Daniel]

In the Zhang Family style we use both the weighted ball and the long spear in our training.
The long Spear helps us to Focus our energy outward and it also helps to develop total muscle control. (a 9 to 15 ft long spear requires all of the muscles to work to get the spear to move correctly and with precision.

The Tai Chi Sphere does the same. Using a sphere that weighs up to 40 lbs makes ALL of the muscles work to stabalize the object while moving slowly. This flushes them with blood cleaning out stagnent cells and supplies oxygen rich blood cells to the area.

The Chen Family Style Master Chen Qingzhou (19th generation)
Teaches the Taji Sphere in 18 postures he uses a 40 lb ball.

Hope this helped

Daniel

[Lisa]

You can download a video of a tai chi spear form here:

http://www.taiji.de/taiji/head5e/index.htm

[Choke]

Thanks guys for the info.

[Shadow Dragon]

Choke.

There are Tai Chi Ball & Tai Chi Ruler Qi-Gong forms.
There are also Silk reeeling exercises using the Ball.
Videos and Books on those are available.

Ba Gua I think also uses the a Ball during their training

Weapons and Ball I believe will help you develop inner strength aswell as train other aspects like power generation and others mentioned above.

Many styles also have hidden unarmed applications in weapon forms.
Also many styles over-long or over-heavy weapons.

IMHO, I don't think that you can say that you have finished your unarmed training until you have mastered the Weapons.

Think about it executing a stabbing movement holding the sword and doing the same movement striking with your finger tips.

Peace.

[Shadow Dragon]

Originally posted by Confucius
weight training cant in any way help cultivate internal energy.

I disagree.
Weight training can be benefitial as long as all the aspects/principles of the Art are maintained.
If you talk Gym style I might be inclined to agree.

I personally was told to do my TCC Forms using heavy Steel Balls balanced on my hands to help loosen tension in the Shoulders.

Some Ba Gua practicioners walk the cirlce using waists with lead weights in them or use wrist weights for the palm changes.

These type of training of course is not for the beginner.

Peace.

[Choke]

I have heard that the heavy ball or sphere or whatever can be used as iron body training......anyone hear of anything like this?

[RAF]

Big Spear training is essential in Chen's, Yang's, Wu, and baji for developing a significant number of jings, especially chan si jing. On Jarek's website, even bagua uses a spear for jing development:

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/bagua/machuanxu.html

Scroll down a bit under the bagua interview and read what he says about the Big Spear Exercises (not form)

Punching power is developed with the spear, too. However, forms are the least important to learn. Stationary exercises and single-moving exercises are one of the keys for developing jings.

Spear or pole must be greater than 10 feet. Some are tapered.

Stuart Olson has a great book on spear training in the Yang style taijiquan along with a decent video.

The material is out there and the so-called secrets aren't such a big deal! You just need someone who can make sure your alignment and breathing are correct and that you don't use excessively heavy training weapons.

The most basic exercises practiced with the correct weapon size, alignment, and consistency yield great results. However, it may take some time and you should not get discouraged.

[Choke]

Thanks for the info and the link RAF!

[RAF]

Choke:

We finally got most of the article on line and the basic spear training pictures are now in place.

http://www.wutangcenter.com/bajipigua2.htm

Scroll down and have a look!

Enjoy.

[SPJ]

Just want to mention that the staff (Gun) is also used for training Tai Ji.

:)

[Buddy]

RAF,
I'm not certain of we've spoken on emptyflower, but those articles as well as the basic training article are among the best I've read (first in JAMA) I highly recommend anyone interested in developing high quality gongfu to read them.
Buddy