Southern Praying Mantis [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

View Full Version : Southern Praying Mantis

toddbringewatt

07-27-2002, 02:38 PM

What is Southern Praying Mantis's approach to dealing with grapplers such as seen in the UFC type bouts/BJJers, etc.?

I know this type of question is probably quite hackneyed with respect to the ongoing dialogue/debate on this site, but it is a serious question and I'm sure many exponents have an intelligent answer.

SSgungfu

07-28-2002, 08:31 AM

My guess would be short-range mantis-hand attacks, punches and elbows. No seriously, I have no idea. The only way to know what they would do is to learn the style and then fight a BJJ guy.

You could ask a teacher of s. mantis what he would do, but you could get a very wide range of answers for that.

I wish there was a southern mantis school in Massachusetts.

yuanfen

07-28-2002, 09:46 AM

Top flight folks wont tell you what they would do. Really top flight spm folks are few and they are generally not the talkative type.
They generally dont care what others think.

fiercest tiger

07-28-2002, 02:16 PM

Well no one can grapple with you if you attack there limbs at the same time the throat!

I havent seen any spm do ground fighting yet, but i do know they have stand up locks and throws that do take down. This is a good question!:)

FT

TaoBoy

07-28-2002, 07:38 PM

At my school we train against takedowns by using various evasive, yeilding manouvres to gain an advantageous position. Then we will generally attack the head, neck or upper back (assuming a head down shoot) with downward strikes or throw/lock depending on attack etc.

MonkeySlap Too

07-29-2002, 03:16 PM

I think they would do it by 'defanging the head.'

Ego_Extrodinaire

07-30-2002, 06:05 AM

Having experience training in southern mantis, it would not do well against BJJ. Mantis is way too sluggish in the footwork to avoid being taken to the ground.

Some one mentioned about attacking the limbs and throat. Don't forget you're dealing with a moving target and its not that easy to score a clean hit against a BJJ let alone aiming for the throat. As for going for the limbs - the BJJ guy would just smother the mantis and take him to the ground.

There is absolutely nothing in the range of techniques in southern mantis to deal with ground fighting. Don't forget, the BJJ guy can also strike and have more body behind those hits.

Like I said before, southern mantis is a type of peasant kung fu and was practiced by people with out much exposure to serious fighting. Farmers toil their fields all day. they'll be too tired to fight when the day is done.

bong

07-30-2002, 07:44 AM

Hey Ego!

Mantis footwork is fast, fluid and very evasive.

Lum Sang was called 'Monkey" because of his superior footwork.
Few could catch him and he could strike with power while moving.

Who was it that took your money and showed you nothing?:D

jonlucas

07-30-2002, 09:12 AM

This is a good question for all fighting styles. If the grappler has size, strength, and technique, then once they get you down on the ground, you're only chance would be for a fast and extreme maneuver that would cause massive pain or massive damage (such as gouging the eyes). You would have to think your life was in danger. The best option is to keep on your feet (better said than done).

You probably would only have time for one act. The head is probably the best target since they come in head first and it's exposed. If you have a heavy punch and can hit the head (which is a moving target, makes it harder) with alot of force, that should send the grappler at least out of balance. That should give you time for another action.

Of course theory and practice are two different things. But practicing by punching a low-mid moving target would help.

bong

07-30-2002, 12:12 PM

A grappler has to have his head in a vulnerable position for a takedown,
so no need to strike the back of the coconut, put your hands out (any good
SPM'er ALWAYS has thier hands out) and take his eyes right out of his head.

Grapplers NEVER prepare for this.

"The Guard" may help a grappler from being struck hard, but it won't prevent
them from losing an eye (or two!). But since such techniques would decimate the
ranks of grapplers, they don't train against it, nor encourage it.

Its amazing that in UFC type events a fellow "in the guard" is not smashing away
with elbows or using "gow choi" hammer blows. But them, "short range" power
is not trained by grappers, but IS by SPM'ers!:D

One final note: SPM is not for "sport" its for killing. Anyone "teaching" SPM
for "health benefits and stress reduction" is a FRAUD.

Tao-Yin-Lee

07-30-2002, 12:24 PM

Ego is helping SPM explain itself to those who do not know just as recently he did with Choy-Lay-Fut and other styles. Ego is the friend of Southern Kung-Fu. SPM is of course not a style but a generic term for many systems and styles which taken together can be very different. Ego has helped by highlighting the fact that whatever his experience of SPM was it could have been no more than partial. He helps too by showing how generalizing from specific instances is a stupid thing. Ego is a delightfully helpful member of this forum and the best of friends to Southern Kung-Fu

Tao
www.tibetankungfu.com

bong

07-30-2002, 06:30 PM

Was Socrates a striker or a grappler?

TaoBoy

07-30-2002, 09:10 PM

Well said Ego...your thoughtful, educated points are so very valuable. However, in your attempt to troll this post you forgot to mention:

a) how wonderful you are
b) how devasting your chosen MA is
c) how amazingly big your **** is

Thanks for your contribution.

bong

07-31-2002, 09:14 AM

" Having experience training in southern mantis,..."

UNDER WHO????

AND FOR HOW LONG?????

Come on, Ego, be a good "TrollBoy" and fess up!

Rolling_Hand

07-31-2002, 05:24 PM

What are the concepts of 3 and 1/2 pole in SPM(Chu Gar Tong Long)?

tnwingtsun

07-31-2002, 07:53 PM

Ego-"Farmers toil their fields all day. they'll be too tired to fight when the day is done."

During the battle of Waterloo when the Brit/Dutch-Anglo center
started to collaspe under the weight of the French attacks and all hope seemed lost the Commander of one of the Scott's units
approched the Commander of the Brit/Anglo Army(The Duke of Wellington) and said..........

Good beans to you me lord!

The Duke,being the gentleman he was, replyed,

"I know nothing what so ever about agriculture"

Well Ego,I've been tired today so I'm with the Duke,other things
keep me busy.

Ego may be a troll at times but I think he's on my side and alot of others(not his southern bashing) when it comes to pulling together as a nation,kados to you Ego.

Now back to the subject.

jonlucas-welcome to the forum/jungle!

We may have the same Sifu,look at my profile,if we do have the same Sifu listen up.

"you're only chance would be for a fast and extreme maneuver that would cause massive pain or massive damage (such as gouging the eyes)."

If we are of the same system and Sifu(SPM is close to mine/ours?)
then listen up,I used "Nine-Step-Push" against a BJJ guy many years ago on the ground,if you know NSP well it works on the ground,but the most IMPORTANT thing when you're on the ground is your state of mind,you have to accept the cold hard fact that you're going to die if you don't use your tools.
My motivation was my children,it clicked and came together,he went to the hospital(eyedamage,almost popped one) and I went home with a cracked elbow.

So train,train.......

Ego_Extrodinaire

08-02-2002, 07:03 AM

Bong,

This is so retro! Lum Sang was called a monkey because although he tried to fight seriously people though he was just fooling around.

Rolling_Hand

08-02-2002, 08:25 AM

Chu Gar Praying Mantis master Chow Yuan Lung.

Are they any Chow's students on this broad?

Sui

08-05-2002, 04:48 AM

hey r-t ,what wrong with you????hahahaha
seems like you too have come out of hiding:D no att.poor little soul;) hows jesus doing?

Rolling_Hand

08-06-2002, 10:41 AM

Are you that Bak Mei Sui-XXX?

Considering the wolf at the door....hahaha!!!

Sui

08-06-2002, 06:47 PM

are you now ba-gau?
hahahahaha

many dougnuts

Sifu shawn

08-09-2002, 08:44 PM

I am an instructor/ student of Tai liu chuan fa southern eagle and mantis. The system I train also cross trains is kick boxing, kempo, jiu jitsu. We always teach that it is not always best to fight what you are good at at(ie stand up, ground) but what your opponent is bad at. If hes a grappler keep the fight stand up. The only problem is that in a UFC type match a lot of true mantis techniques will be disallowed, as the southern mantis I train is lethal, it is meant for true life and death self defence. In a street situation against a grappler, I would break his knees first, with low kicks, then fingers to the eyes, the throat is atarget on the street but that could land you in court, or worse. True mantis techniques are not legal in any sporting event I have competed in . And my club is both traditional and non traditional. I have fought kick boxing bouts, and some fellow students have fought No holds barred fights. The mantis is to mean for a sporting event.
At least thats my thoughts.
sifu shawn

fiercest tiger

08-09-2002, 08:57 PM

how do you know what the opponent is bad or good at on the street?

It is all good when you have a bout because you know the school they are from so u get an idea of the fighting art they do.

thanks
FT:)

tnwingtsun

08-10-2002, 09:01 AM

"how do you know what the opponent is bad or good at on the street?"

Use the force Luke,I am your FATHER............

Pump a .45 Hydroshock round through his kneecap,that really messes up thier foot work,then take it from there.
:D

Sifu shawn

08-10-2002, 11:51 AM

Good question. Thats the reason for cross training. First of all so you can intelligently defend yourself against either or. You will either get your but kicked on the street or you will not. Once you can fight both a standup or a ground fighter, you will reaqct accordingly . However the original question is almost mute because true manits techniques are not allowed in a sport environment anyway. And hopefully if you you are in a street confrontation you will be able to evaluate the fight situation in a hurry. If you have ever been in a street confrontation you know it does happen fast, you survive and react to the situation, or you get hurt. end of story. The situation dictates the response, if you are still thinking your way through the fight to much, you are probably in trouble no matter what the situation. There is a big difference between Martail Arts in a self defence situation and a sport event
Sifu shawn

Colin

08-12-2002, 07:07 AM

Ft,
It's obvious how to tell what the person is good at, just have a look at their knees!
I've heard that all TKF guys have very dirty knees, this i'm sure means that they are all excellent grapplers, not just good head givers! :eek:

Shawn,
What is this "Tai liu chuan fa southern eagle and mantis" all about then?
Do you have lineage within SPM & Eagle Claw, or is it just more kempo stuff from your CEO?

Colin............

London lau Gar Kuen

Ego_Extrodinaire

08-12-2002, 08:18 AM

Colin,

Southern Kung fu is good on their knees, begging for mercy at the best of times.

don't you all agree that you have dirty knees.

Buby

08-12-2002, 08:26 AM

Na..Not really, but I heard people from jersey like to get their knees dirty.:eek:

Buby

Ego_Extrodinaire

08-12-2002, 08:39 AM

Buby

There isn't any grappling in southern kung fu. It is like karate and not very mobile.

Buby

08-12-2002, 09:53 AM

Sorry man, but I beg to differ. Well actually I can't speak for every southern system out there(I can only speak for YKM), but in YKM we have lots of footwork and we're nothing like karate (no disrespect intended).

"not very mobil/karateish" - At times its just the exponents interpretation of the art and not the art itself.

Take care,
Buby

Sifu shawn

08-12-2002, 11:42 AM

very poetic

Buby

08-12-2002, 11:54 AM

Thank you. It was my lil bro. who put it together for me.:D

Take care,
Buby

fiercest tiger

08-12-2002, 04:55 PM

Day Sut kuen uses alot of ground fighting in just that form alone!

anyway you know better as always!:D u still coming to the ykm cafe? grand opening soon, have you got your invite? i sent it.:) with the rice.

buby,

nice ykm song bro, keep it gangsta!:D

Dak'kon

08-14-2002, 12:41 PM

Okay, This is not quite a contribution to this particular forum but indirectly it might benefit it anyway.
I would like to learn avrything there is to learn about the praying mantis styles(for as far as that is possible) one of the reasons for this is that the praying mantis is my favourite animal.
One of the things that is of mutch interest to me is the main diferences in the diferent styles.
And eather or not anny of the styles are better than anny other, And if so whitch ones are these, I ofcourse would also like to know here in europe i can practise these PM styles(specificly in holland)
ANNY information is welkome no-matter how trivial.
Thanx in advance!

Dak'kon

08-14-2002, 12:41 PM

Dak'kon

08-15-2002, 03:51 AM

Thanx, I got bamboo temple on my seartch engine when i was seartching on praying mantis(The animal too, Not only the style)
But i didnt go there cuz i had already visited so manny mantis related sites.
I'll go there and see what i can find out.

08-15-2002, 08:36 PM

When you go to Bamboozle Temple, as Roger a simple question.

"WHO CERTIFIED HIM TO TEACH AND OPEN A SCHOOL?"

He cannot answer that, because no one will admit to having anything
to do with him. He is mere collector of forms and photos.

He was a "commuter student" of Gin Foon Mark, then betrayed him
by joining another Jook Lum teacher after taking the most serious of vows
a Jook Lum man can take.

He might be able to brawl like in a bar, and he has a nifty "Chuck Norris"
sidekick, but he has very little Jook Lum in hands.

He has gone from Gin Foon Mark to Poo Yee to Louie Jack Man to Wong Baklim
and even to the ends of the earth, he has pictures of himself with BONA FIDE
Sifus, but the FACT remains, no man will claim him as a student and NO ONE
HAS EVER CERTIFIED HIM TO TEACH, let alone open a school.

Go ahead and ask him. He will fill your ears with "Masonic mumbo jumbo"
but he CANNOT answer the question, "WHO CERTIFIED HIM TO TEACH?"

Have a nice day.

redfist

08-17-2002, 06:14 PM

hey jack,
who certfied you to teach?

why do you put down gin foon mark?you used to kiss his ass,for
any bit of information you could get,but you didn`t get anything,
i guess thats why you are so ****ed off,

thats where you got your jook lum from,remember hanging
around nyc chinatown with ho dun and norman chin?

you say you despise lum sang but thats where your
"deadly" hakka hand came from,

now seriously jack,post your lineage for all to see,
i will look it over let and you know how legitament it is.

while i`m at it,i noticed your disdain for the chow gar of ip sui,
is he not the oldest living practioner of nan tong long today?
maybe 70+ years of experiance.
you expect us to think you know more then he does?
you have no respect for your elders,nor for yourself.

hear that jack?

the walls are closing in,the truth is out there jack,
unfortunately so are you.

bong

08-17-2002, 10:06 PM

Jack thought himsewlf a Mason once.

He got some low-level stuff from the master of low-level...NORMAN!!

Then, after having many teachers, he found the Great Mantis (who was really the great Llama, but Jack didn't know that yet). Jack went "over the pond" to the UK for a couple of weeks and learned enough to become a contemporary of the great Mantis/Llama, was dubbed "sifu", then he donned the robe of Socrates and became the "Bad Cop" of The Great Mantis' Super Secret Socrates Mantis Club. Jack then scared off and/or insulted everone in sight and the website folded. The Great Mantis revealed himself as the Great Llama and abandoned Jook Lum and poor Jack. Now Jack has too much time on his hands.:p

redfist

08-18-2002, 05:54 AM

you still here jack,

the truth is right there in bongs post and it kills you,
who are you to ask a question anyway?
you are nothing but a low level nan tong long wanna be,

you said lum sang was beaten,who hasn`t been?
i guess sometimes it all depends when you start counting
i was around when he was alive and all i know is that
he was well respected,
by the very people you learned your kung fu from.

the kung fu that lum sang taught was real good,
thats why you were hanging around chinatown to get what you could,
it was worth it,

now listen son,
i`m going to give you a chance to educate all of us here at
kung fu on line,
first take your medication,ready?

list for us now all of the "masters"that defeated lum sang.

full names,dates,and times please.

redfist

08-18-2002, 10:24 AM

hey jack,

is that the song you sing to yourself when looking in the mirror,
you know that shiney thing over your bathroom sink.

you do have a bathroom,don`t you?you know,
the place you spend most of your time,

spanking the monkey troll boy,

sing it again jack,like the way it sounds?
i hope so,

it`s about you jack,it`s your anthem.

thank you for shareing it with us troll boy,

back to chaseing your tail now.

Springball Jack

08-25-2002, 07:40 AM

hey redfist, bong and mantella, you guys really think this jacka$$ went over to the UK for two week serious transmission................ no no no..........our buddy Jack only jerk around in maryland and pretending he has been to the UK.

ah.....................pretending is a dangerous word, someone may come to his front door to see if his refined hands really stack up!!!! ...............................Ah...............No master in the UK is gonna save his little JACKa$$....

have fun with your joystick jack and make sure you wipe your screen afterward.

TATATATATATA

Springball Jack

08-25-2002, 07:41 AM

Mantella

08-26-2002, 02:00 PM

Who knows mabey he did go "over the pond." Not that it would do him much good. I doubt it though. Where did your sifu go Jackie? Please tell us about it. Tell the truth now. It looks as though perhaps you have been booted off this board. Not the first time that's happened. So just log in under another name and answer our questions.

We will be waiting.......

JMagnano

09-17-2002, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by Dak'kon
Okay, This is not quite a contribution to this particular forum but indirectly it might benefit it anyway.
I would like to learn avrything there is to learn about the praying mantis styles(for as far as that is possible) one of the reasons for this is that the praying mantis is my favourite animal.
One of the things that is of mutch interest to me is the main diferences in the diferent styles.
And eather or not anny of the styles are better than anny other, And if so whitch ones are these, I ofcourse would also like to know here in europe i can practise these PM styles(specificly in holland)
ANNY information is welkome no-matter how trivial.
Thanx in advance!

Go to www.8step.com with James Sun and 8 Step Mantis. It's one style that is worth considering. I don't know if there are 8 Step practioners where you live but it's worth considering. Also if you'd like drop by Bamboo Temple.com I agree with you the Mantis is my favorite little creature too (along with the Dachshund). But the Mantis is fun to watch and I've actually seen a Mantis fight off a bird to the point the bird took off!

Brad

07-02-2003, 01:45 PM

Are there any websites with good info on this system? Or can anyone give an overview of what it's like?

red5angel

07-02-2003, 03:02 PM

Brad, have you studied it before or are you looking for it? Type in Southern Praying Mantis in google and you will find a tone of webpages but not a whole lotof info. I put up a thread here not too long ago and someone posted a thread from FIRE HAWK that had some great info on it.

Brad

07-02-2003, 08:48 PM

I'm thinking of studying it. My teacher is moving back to China in a month or two for familly reasons(not sure how long he's staying), so I'm going to do either Hung Gar or Southern Mantis :)

red5angel

07-03-2003, 07:08 AM

I don't know a whole lot about hung gar but I am pretty impressed with SPM. It works well with my phat wing chun skeewz ;) . Like I said find that thread that I started on SPM and locate the thread by FIRE HAWK. Other then that go in and check it out and see how you feel.

FIRE HAWK

07-03-2003, 12:57 PM

Here is another article on Southern Mantis
http://infinite.org/library/pages/SBMAC2.1-18.html
and Brad were in Ohio are you going to learn Souther Praying Mantis from do you live near Columbus there is a sifu named Ray McCloud from Master Gen Foon Marks Jook Lum Southern Mantis that teaches in Clevland ,Ohio, Southern Mantis Forums
http://www.voy.com/136570/
http://www.geocities.com/jooklum2003/
http://pub75.ezboard.com/bsouthernprayingmantiskungfu
http://www.hku.hk/cmaclub/english/resource-center/malibrary/chowmantis.htm
http://216.239.33.100/search?q=cache:RMuGCpzA9A4J:cclib.nsu.ru/projects/satbi/satbi-e/martart/wushu/sm.html+Chuka+Shaolin+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

red5angel

07-03-2003, 01:06 PM

FIRE HAWK, do you study SPM?

Brad

07-03-2003, 03:17 PM

and Brad were in Ohio are you going to learn Souther Praying Mantis from do you live near Columbus there is a sifu named Ray McCloud from Master Gen Foon Marks Jook Lum Southern Mantis that teaches in Clevland ,Ohio, Southern Mantis
I'm in Columbus. Tony Brown's school is where I'm going to try and go, he does both Hung Gar and SPM. Thanks for the links, I'll check them out :)

FIRE HAWK

07-03-2003, 07:43 PM

red5angel I gave up trying to learn Southern Mantis along time ago because there are no Sifu s that teach Southern Mantis close enough to where I live , so i gave it up .

Jook Lum

07-03-2003, 07:58 PM

Hello Brad!Here is Gin Foon Marks website-masterginfoonmark.com.

Lost Oath

07-04-2003, 05:25 AM

Hey Brad, try this one:

http://intermantis.idz.net

http://www.ckfa.net (http://www.ckfa.com)

Enjoy!

~Lost Oath

Jared1211

06-28-2006, 07:39 PM

The truth is that SPM is very swift. If the mantis fighter knows anything he will not be taken to the ground. He would attack while moving and probably take out a limb somewhere. Whoever ego's instructor was should have told him this. I don't see how he calls the style slow at all. What we have learned is swift and fast. It is more finesse than anything, but I don't know what kind of attack the BJJ fighter would recieve because SPM is more of a style which will vary depending on what is being done. There are many ways for a grappling artist can take down so it would depend on that.

The Xia

08-19-2007, 11:52 PM

The founder of Kwang Sai Jook Lum Jee Nam Tong Long Pai is Som Dot. The founder of Chu Gar Nam Tong Long Pai is Chu Fook Tu. The founder of Ti Au Nam Tong Long Pai is Choi Dit Ngau. The founder of Chow Gar Nam Tong Long Pai is Chow Ah Nam. If I'm not mistaken, none of those styles are offshoots of one another. Even though they have separate founders, they are all Hakka Mantis. I may be wrong on this, but they look like they have the same core to me. Sure, there are stylistic differences in what I have seen, but I do not detect any more between Hakka Tong Long styles then I do between say, Hung Sing Choy Li Fut and Buk Sing Choy Li Fut. Are all the Hakka Tong Long hands different branches of the same style? If so, do the founders have any lineage relation to one another?

gabe

08-20-2007, 06:26 AM

Sam

08-20-2007, 09:05 PM

Monks Lee Siem See and Wong may have been contemporaries of Som Dot. What is amazing is that Grand Master Lam Sang tained directly with Lee Siem See and inherited the Jeong Fong. www.jooklummantis.com

Sam

08-21-2007, 08:29 AM

SharingMantis:
Original hand sets from Lam Sang was Sam Bo Gin to begin with. Now almost everyone knows Sam Bo Gin. It's not a secret. Someone asked Lam Sang once"Mark Foon,teaches Sam Bo Gin this way, Ho Dun teaches it that way and so who is correct? Lam Sang answer was they are all correct. One likes this hand, the other likes that hand. However Lam Sang did stress the breathing, hitting out three times,and concentration on each finger etc. 18 points is another original. The only time Lam Sang was displeased was when an early deciple changed it completely. For example 18 point is done going straight,turn around straight line,and turn around again and close the set. One disciple made changes by saying he decided to put 108 footwork into 18 points, so the set comes out looking like your going from side to side with a few extra added fancy moves. According to Lam Sang this is not adapting, it is changing the system completly.
Originally weapons is a staff and a sword. Originally hand set is 108. Reach Siem Kuen and the set closes.Lam Sang only learnled half from his teacher.He completed the system under Lee Siem See (spelling by sound),and that is when he was giving the (Jeung Fong),by Lee Siem See.
Besides internal hands, their is also "San Far Shou", which is a flowerly hand. Or you can probably call it "Spreading Flower Hand". This was taught by a female, and is mainly used towards hitting the face. Lam Sang added this to the style. Most two man sets Lam Sang taught is never the same the second time around. Lam Sang used to say, "Anyone that thinks a set is supposed to look exactly the same as the sifu taught do not know".
Lam Sang always stress, being able to adapt on the spot. Easy said ,not easy to do. It's like you learn 26 letters of the alphabet yet by using those 26 letters, you are able to make sentences and paragraphs. This is adapt. Not coming out with letter number 27 and 28. This is complete change.
www.jooklummantis.com

The Xia

08-21-2007, 10:55 AM

Thanks Sam, that was very interesting.

bamboo bug

08-21-2007, 06:07 PM

The Xia,

There are more interesting questions answered by "SharingMantis" on the jooklummantis forum (http://www.jooklummantis.com/jlm/forum/default.asp).
Come by and check it out.

bb

Sam

08-22-2007, 12:28 AM

You're Welcome Xia.

Doc Stier

09-10-2007, 10:39 PM

Roger Hagood, the Mantis King, answers your questions here:

What a hoot! :D Perhaps only in his dreams. :o With all due respect to Roger Hagood, he is a pretty good marketer of his school and website, but his SPM skills were never enough to qualify him as the Mantis King. :rolleyes: And as long as Masters like Sifu Gin-Foon Mark and Sifu Henry Poo Yee still breath, among numerous others, including several Sifus of their same generation of practitioners, top students, and immediate family members like Elliot Mark, he never will be the Mantis King, IMO. ;)

I agree that virtually all of the Southern Praying Mantis Styles share a common Hakka heritage coming out of Fujian/Fukien, and bear a closer physical resemblance to one another than some other families of styles do, like the major styles of Tai-Chi Chuan for example. Although different styles of SPM may include different Form Sets in their teaching curriculum, and oftentimes several different versions of each individual Form Set within the same school or style, they nonetheless share is very unique and similar stylistic appearance in their respective movement patterns.

During the 8+ years that I learned from Sifu Mark, I was taught no fewer than 3-5 different versions of Form Sets like the Sam Bo Gin Set, the Half Lily Set, the Hard Mantis Set, the 18 Point and 108 Point Mantis Sets, and others, as well as several different versions of various Two-Person Sets or Drills. Master Mark always said that the Sam Bo Gin Set best represented the essential core of the SPM Systems, which is why it was usually the first Set taught, and why this Set is a part of every SPM Style in one version or another.

Doc

gabe

09-13-2007, 02:18 PM

What a hoot! :D Perhaps only in his dreams. :o With all due respect to Roger Hagood, he is a pretty good marketer of his school and website, but his SPM skills were never enough to qualify him as the Mantis King. :rolleyes: And as long as Masters like Sifu Gin-Foon Mark and Sifu Henry Poo Yee still breath, among numerous others, including several Sifus of their same generation of practitioners, top students, and immediate family members like Elliot Mark, he never will be the Mantis King, IMO. ;)

I agree that virtually all of the Southern Praying Mantis Styles share a common Hakka heritage coming out of Fujian/Fukien, and bear a closer physical resemblance to one another than some other families of styles do, like the major styles of Tai-Chi Chuan for example. Although different styles of SPM may include different Form Sets in their teaching curriculum, and oftentimes several different versions of each individual Form Set within the same school or style, they nonetheless share is very unique and similar stylistic appearance in their respective movement patterns.

During the 8+ years that I learned from Sifu Mark, I was taught no fewer than 3-5 different versions of Form Sets like the Sam Bo Gin Set, the Half Lily Set, the Hard Mantis Set, the 18 Point and 108 Point Mantis Sets, and others, as well as several different versions of various Two-Person Sets or Drills. Master Mark always said that the Sam Bo Gin Set best represented the essential core of the SPM Systems, which is why it was usually the first Set taught, and why this Set is a part of every SPM Style in one version or another.

Doc

"Mantis King" is what he calls himself. I think his posts over there indicate that he includes northen mantis in his kingdom, in addition to jook lum and chu gar. I guess you don't agree.:cool:

Angelo F.

01-30-2008, 11:25 AM

Hello everyone,

Wondering if anyone knows of any Southern Praying Mantis schools in the Chicago-land area. I believe there is one in Algonquin, Illinois. I met a Sifu who taught in this city back in May of last year at the USKSF tournament in Madison, Wisconsin. I really enjoyed talking to him because he was very passionate about his art and I could see he was a fighter.

I am trying to locate a Southern Praying Mantis seminar so I can learn more and experience some of the system.

I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin so this is the reason I am choosing Illinois since it is a rather close drive. However, I have heard that Gin Foon Mark has his headquaters in Minnesota. If anyone knows of a SPM seminar please post.

Thank you for your time.

Angelo

Mike Sheng

01-30-2008, 12:37 PM

I think that is a Chu Gar Mantis school in Chicago.I remember an artical in Inside Kung Fu magazine in the early 90s on that particular school.You might want to google it.

ChukaSifu2

01-30-2008, 02:31 PM

If you are looking for the Chuka SPM school in Chicago area. e-mail me at chukasouthernprayingmantiskungfu@hotmail.com. I teach out of the Wauconda,Il. area Northwest suburb of Chicago. about 10 miles west of I-94 on Il. Rte. 176
We are not assosiated with the teacher you had met from the Algonquin school though.
I teach Chuka(ChuGar) SPM under Sifu Sammy Wong.

Sincerely,
Sifu Tony Blum - Chuka Tong Long Kung Fu

ChukaSifu2

01-30-2008, 02:32 PM

The Inside kung fu article of Chugar by Wilber Rymes is the Chuka School.

Angelo F.

01-31-2008, 04:18 PM

Sydney_Mantis

01-31-2008, 10:18 PM

Thank you Mike and Tony for your replies.

I was hoping to find a seminar in Southern Praying Mantis.
The Sifu I spoke with in Madison with Sifu Richard Gamboa. It took me a while to remember his name. He was very good.

Other than a seminar, are there any good dvd's or videos on this art?

Also, I am not sure of the difference between some of the "styles" i.e. chow gar, choy gar, iron ox, look jum (sp?). I am not trying to start a which style is better just trying to get more infomation.

Thanks for your time.

Angelo

Hi mate

I practise Chow Gar SPM in Sydney, Australia. Our Grandmaster is Henry Sue from the Great Grandmaster Dr Nat Yuen lineage. GM Henry Sue is based at the headquarters in Queensland and Great GM Dr Nat Yuen is in Hong Kong. Great Great GM Ip Shui passed on everything to Great GM Dr Nat Yuen, which has now been passed to GM Henry Sue and is now Custodian of the art in Australia.

If you want further insight on Chow Gar SPM, please visit our website: www.chinesekungfuacademy.com

As for the difference between the types of SPM, from a lot of Googling around, I believe they have the same concept but only different ways of practicing it.

All the best in your training.

Regards

Jade Tigress

01-31-2008, 10:34 PM

Thank you Mike and Tony for your replies.

I was hoping to find a seminar in Southern Praying Mantis.
The Sifu I spoke with in Madison with Sifu Richard Gamboa. It took me a while to remember his name. He was very good.

Other than a seminar, are there any good dvd's or videos on this art?

Also, I am not sure of the difference between some of the "styles" i.e. chow gar, choy gar, iron ox, look jum (sp?). I am not trying to start a which style is better just trying to get more infomation.

Thanks for your time.

Angelo

Hi Angelo,

I started training with Sifu Gamboa about 2 years ago at his school in Algonquin. You’re right, he is VERY good and I love my training.

He gives seminars regularly, in fact he recently returned from California and will be leaving for New Jersey next week. He has also given seminars internationally, traveling as far as Africa and China.

If you are interested in training or learning more about SPM, Sifu Gamboa is your man, he is truly passionate about the integrity of the art.

If you want to speak with him he can be reached at 800-566-5586, he’d be more than happy to talk with you and I’m sure he’ll remember your name. I'm always impressed when people approach him from some prior contact and he always remembers who they are. But again, that speaks of his passion for people and the art.

I wish you the best in your pursuit of SPM training. If you choose to contact Sifu Gamboa you will not be disappointed.

Angelo F.

02-01-2008, 07:23 AM

Thank you for your responses Sydney and Jade.
Sydney, I will look at the link you provided.

Jade, thank you for your reply.
Yes, Sifu Gamboa is very good. I am actually a Wing Chun practicitioner but would like to learn more about Southern Praying Mantis and I believe (like you said) Sifu Gamboa is the man and he is also very personable.
Does your school have any seminars coming up that would cover the basics of SPM?
Can you send me a schedule of events or direct me to your school's website?

Also are there any good dvd's on SPM available?

Thanks again for your responses.

All the best,

Angelo

Jim Roselando

02-01-2008, 10:16 AM

http://www.chinamantis.com/

TongLongJai

02-02-2008, 01:08 AM

Hi

has anyone brought that eBook? and would like to review it? is it work US$49.95 for an eBook?

espeically the chow gar and chu gar parts

it looks interesting but as a student .. i'm poor / a cheap skate hehe :D

Thanks

mantis-1

02-03-2008, 12:26 PM

Hi mate

I practise Chow Gar SPM in Sydney, Australia. Our Grandmaster is Henry Sue from the Great Grandmaster Dr Nat Yuen lineage. GM Henry Sue is based at the headquarters in Queensland and Great GM Dr Nat Yuen is in Hong Kong. Great Great GM Ip Shui passed on everything to Great GM Dr Nat Yuen, which has now been passed to GM Henry Sue and is now Custodian of the art in Australia.

Regards

Not entirely true that statement is it?

the Chow legacy was kept within the family with GM Ip passing the mantle to his son... as for custodian ofthe system within oz, ask your sifu about Sifu Paul Brennan

Jim Roselando

02-04-2008, 07:59 AM

Hello,

Its not one eBook but 5 eBooks compressed into one!

Loaded with info..

Anyone who studies SPM will find the eBook very rich with information!

:)

02-06-2008, 11:03 PM

Hello,
Anyone who studies SPM will find the eBook very rich with information!
:)

It make for a nice travelogue or brochure for a vacation.

- jo

Xian

07-10-2011, 03:29 PM

charp choi

07-11-2011, 07:47 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G8G_kGem4k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD0zFYwB9zI&NR=1

I still don't know very much about Praying Mantis so I do apologize If you find this videos boring, but I look for some videos and sometimes Ill find a demonstration decent and you see the work even you don't know the system.Then I like to share it, also to get other opinions and maybe insights and inspirations from their comments.

Kind regards,
Xian

Thanks for the clips. They were Kwongsai Jook Lum, btw.

Here's some Dit Ngau (Iron Ox):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE4aEjL0DJ4&feature=related

Chu Gar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAl8Y2feNsA&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Chuka Mantis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed96yw-EBfk&feature=related

and my branch, Chow Gar SPM:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBMj9NuhiKI&feature=related

sanjuro_ronin

07-11-2011, 07:50 AM

charp choi

07-11-2011, 09:39 AM

There are a lot more SPM videos on the net than there were a short 5 years ago, that's for sure.
You just need to realize that the forms tend to have a very personal flavour to them so enjoy them for what they are :)

That's very true. I have yet to see anyone perform Chow Gar's 'Sarm Bo Jin' exactly the same.

sanjuro_ronin

07-11-2011, 10:15 AM

That's very true. I have yet to see anyone perform Chow Gar's 'Sarm Bo Jin' exactly the same.

Same with me for Chow gar and for Jook lum, but there isn't anything wrong with that.
Even karate there are dozens of versions of sanchin.

07-11-2011, 01:31 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_LgnH2jw5M

-jo

Lee Chiang Po

07-11-2011, 03:22 PM

Quite interesting. It seems similar to the chum kil forms of Wing Chun though not exactly the same moves.

Violent Designs

07-11-2011, 03:45 PM

http://www.hulu.com/watch/142702/needle-through-brick

Go to 35:00 of the documentary.

That is one slick mantis form.

TenTigers

07-11-2011, 04:24 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_LgnH2jw5M

-jo
heyyyyyyy...I know that guy....:cool:

charp choi

07-11-2011, 04:43 PM

http://www.hulu.com/watch/142702/needle-through-brick

Go to 35:00 of the documentary.

That is one slick mantis form.

That's one slick documentary. i have the dvd.

Violent Designs

07-11-2011, 05:41 PM

That's one slick documentary. i have the dvd.

Do you know what type of mantis that master is doing? It looks a bit different from the usual that I've been exposed to (which is not much mind you).

Is it different than the typical flavor now in the mainland?

ShortBridge

07-11-2011, 10:46 PM

http://www.hulu.com/watch/142702/needle-through-brick

Go to 35:00 of the documentary.

That is one slick mantis form.

Great movie.

ShortBridge

07-11-2011, 10:49 PM

Do you know what type of mantis that master is doing? It looks a bit different from the usual that I've been exposed to (which is not much mind you).

Is it different than the typical flavor now in the mainland?

I have copy somewhere too, I'll go to that point and check it out and then I have someone who I can ask.

But, the story of this documentary is around Chinese ex-pats in Malaysia who have unique styles that are unfortunately dying with them, so it's unlikely consistent with what's in China now.

YouKnowWho

07-11-2011, 11:22 PM

I'm very interesting in the SPM "mantis arms" that you touch your right palm on top of your opponent's left elbow and you touch your left palm on top of your opponent's right elbow. Both of your arms and hands are on top and inside of your opponent's arms.

This is a very important TCMA principle,

- 搶上不搶下(Qiang Shang Bu Qiang Xia) - fight for the top, don't fight for the bottom.
- 搶内不搶外(Qiang Nei Bu Qiang Wai) - fight for the inside, don't fight for the outside.

but in the other WC thread, it seems that WC guys don't care much about this principle. Just like to hear you SPM guy's opinion on this.

ShortBridge

07-12-2011, 06:49 AM

What does that principle mean? Interested in understanding.

sanjuro_ronin

07-12-2011, 07:01 AM

charp choi

07-12-2011, 10:31 AM

YouKnowWho

07-12-2011, 10:31 AM

What does that principle mean? Interested in understanding.

You stay on

- top of your opponent so you have "weight" advantage.
- inside of your opponent so you have "short distance" advantage.

GeneChing

01-09-2017, 08:16 AM

The Last Stand of the Southern Praying Mantis: Preserving Hong Kong’s Vanishing Martial Arts (http://time.com/4587078/kung-fu-martial-arts-hakka-hong-kong-preserve/)
Joseph Hincks / Hong Kong 2:49 AM ET

https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/gettyimages-74961332.jpg?quality=85&w=1680
China Photos/Getty Images
The bronze statue of late martial-arts legend and actor Bruce Lee stands on the Avenue of Stars in this file photo taken on June 29, 2007, in Hong Kong

Kung fu is under threat in the very city that gave the world Bruce Lee. Can an ambitious new digital project preserve some of its arcane forms or even revive interest in it among a new generation?

“The waters of the Yangtze roll to the east, heroes come and go like foam on the waves.” — The Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Luo Guanzhong

There are a couple of time-honored ways to find a kung fu master, cinema teaches us. You can begin a journey of a thousand miles with a single step, climb a misty mountain, and pluck a chrysanthemum to drop into the palm of your intended sifu. Or, you take a beating on the stone steps of a monastery and show up the next morning to stand vigil under the crabapple trees. Again and again with the beating and the vigils until one day the gate creaks open and wordlessly you follow your new master inside.

But finding the sifu of Jiangxi Bamboo Forest Praying Mantis kung fu — a fighting style inspired by the movements of the predatory insect — turns out to be way easier. It costs less than $100 by taxi from Hong Kong Island’s banking district. From there, you drive through an undersea tunnel into the glass and concrete cacophony of the Kowloon peninsula, and then follow the articulated trucks north along one of the highways that carve through the Nine Dragons range after which Kowloon is called, and into the New Territories.

Despite its beckoning, adventurous sounding name, the New Territories is, in reality, a 952-sq-km buffer of suburban housing developments, scrap yards and scrub-covered hills between Hong Kong and China proper. Here, the skyscrapers cede to pylons piercing the mist, and abandoned shipping containers rust among thickets of bamboo. At the end of one country road is Wo Hang village. And next to its post office, in a nylon track suit and waving through the drizzle, is sifu Lee Chun-lam: head of the Jiangxi Bamboo Forest Praying Mantis dynasty and master of the unicorn dance.

On a walk around Wo Hang, taking in a community hall hung with red banners for his son’s marriage, 68-year-old Lee recalls the unicorn dances here that would be performed at weddings, New Year celebrations, and other auspicious occasions. They first stirred his interest in kung fu. Men would don papier mâché unicorn heads and caper to cymbals, flashing tongues and shaking silk tails as neighbors lit firecrackers. “When I was kid, there was nothing to play with, and I was intrigued when I heard there were unicorns out and about. I was attracted by how animated and like animals they were,” Lee tells TIME.

Unicorn dances, and the form of Praying Mantis kung fu that Lee mastered, came to Hong Kong by way of the Hakka, a migrant people. Many landless Hakka — the word literally means guest families — settled in what is now the New Territories about 300 years ago. As a minority ethnic group in often hostile territory they relied on their fighting skills to survive. Martial arts was so embedded in their culture that when Lee — a 10th generation Hakka settler in Wo Hang — was growing up almost everyone studied kung fu.

Today, things are very different. Hong Kong has reared three generations of martial-arts stars — from the legendary “Little Dragon” Bruce Lee (no relation) and Shaolin Master Killer’s Gordon Liu, to Jackie Chan and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon’s Chow Yun-fat, to Donnie Yen of Star Wars: Rogue One. But the kung fu that has a cult cinematic following the world over, and continues to inspire legions of mixed martial arts fighters, faces multiple threats back home.

Lee is one of the rare Hong Kong masters whose variant of kung fu is managing to survive — just about. Although Wo Hang’s remote location means he currently has just eight disciples, some of those disciples have taken on acolytes of their own in the city and there are a couple more Bamboo Forest Praying Mantis masters in Hong Kong besides him. Once a week, he also crosses the border to teach a class in the nearby mainland Chinese city of Shenzhen.

https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/dsc01768-1.jpg?w=560&quality=85&h=373
Tang Ming Tung—International Guoshu Association
Jiangxi Bamboo Forest Praying Mantis master Lee Chun-lam shows Plum Blossom spear technique in Hong Kong in 2015

Other forms of Hakka kung fu, however, are at risk of extinction. A sifu of Tung Kong Chow Ka, a different style of Praying Mantis kung fu, tells TIME that his style has fewer than 100 practitioners. Another sifu, the preternaturally ripped 62-year-old Yau Wan-wah, has five remaining disciples but no regular place to teach them his Iron Ox Praying Mantis, a style renowned for toughening its practitioners’ fists and forearms. And snowy haired Lam Yue-fau, who is 87 this year, is the only living master of one of the southern Chinese style known as Lam Gar Gau.

Some styles have gone altogether: Wat Shek Gau (“Rolling Rocks Teaching”), a type of martial arts practiced by quarry workers from Hakka villages, disappeared from Hong Kong as mining and stonework were phased out; Lau Man Gau (“Drifting People’s Teachings”), also of Hakka origin, is close to extinction.

“The root is in danger,” Chao Hing, the CEO of the International Guoshu Association, tells TIME. If the root withers altogether, he says, Hong Kong loses not just methods of self defense but “an embodied system of knowledge and communication.” These range from unicorn dances, to the use of weapons adapted from farm tools, to techniques inspired by the motion of stone-grinding rice into flour.

In fact, the decline of Hong Kong kung fu has been going on for half a century or more. Long before Bruce Lee enjoyed cinematic success in the 1970s as Hong Kong’s first global superstar, some of the martial arts he studied were already losing their hold on the Hakka villages of the New Territories. (The film star was trained in Wing Chun kung fu, which some experts say bears more resemblance to the Hakka style of fighting than it does to the styles of the Cantonese ethnic majority.)

Work in the impoverished, hardscrabble Hakka settlements was scarce, and jobs in Hong Kong’s nascent manufacturing sector were low paid. Many men, therefore, took advantage of Hong Kong’s status as a British colony to emigrate to the U.K., to be hired in the restaurants and takeaways of London, Birmingham and Manchester. Others signed up as seamen on the countless cargo ships that came through Hong Kong’s busy port. Wherever Hakka men found employment — from Liverpool to Rotterdam to Sydney — they sent for their fellow villagers and clansmen to join them. In this way, entire villages across the New Territories were emptied in a short space of time. Lee Chun-lam tells TIME that around 90% of the Hakka in Wo Hang left.

Meanwhile, development and population booms put the squeeze on rents. Many kung fu masters fled to Hong Kong in the late 1960s to escape the chaos of Mao Zedong’s Cultural Revolution. They set up their schools on Kowloon tenement rooftops — in those days, among the cheapest premises to be had in the urban area. But as waves of refugees continued to arrive from mainland China, demand for rooftop space spiked. A roaring economy, and scarce land area, meanwhile kept the price of other forms of property prohibitively high. Half way across the world, kung fu was a sensation. From late March to mid October 1973 six Hong Kong kung fu films held the No. 1 spot at U.S. box offices. But in Hong Kong itself, taking on the relatively extravagant square footage required for a busy martial arts gym was simply beyond the means of most sifu.

In recent decades, the pressure on kung fu has only intensified. The proliferation of different forms of entertainment, and a far greater choice of forms of exercise — from squash courts to skate parks to hiking trails and regular gyms — means that the territory’s young people have a plethora of ways of keeping themselves entertained and fit. When they do express an interest in combat sports, it is in its currently modish forms — Muay Thai, for example, or mixed martial arts. Kung fu is often seen as outdated or, even worse, brings to mind the slapstick form of fighting found in Jackie Chan films. continued next post

GeneChing

01-09-2017, 08:17 AM

‘Endless grinding will make a sword treasured’

The last bastion of Tung Kong Chow Ka Southern Praying Mantis style is on the ninth floor of a nondescript gray building in Kowloon’s Mong Kok neighborhood — an area known for its street food, cheap shopping, brothels and occasional triad fights.

On a recent Wednesday, 13 barefoot students scuttled across a vinyl floor among boxes of promotional calendars and polythene wrapped unicorn masks. Fixed to the wall was a rack holding swords, staffs, and a spear of the kind used in the elaborate, twirling, Plum Blossom routine. On another wall, extractor fans sucked in grilled pork fumes from the apartment next door, instead of fresh air.

Master Li Tin-loy walked among his acolytes in a frog-button shirt. The sifu used a wooden staff to tap against straining calves and quads. Then he laid it on a fold-out table while he made minute adjustments to the rotation of wrists, or corrected the protrusion of knuckles.

When not attending to his students, Li — a former police officer — talked about the common origin of the various praying mantis styles. “One day there was a monk that noticed a fight between a mantis and a bird. The mantis won and he was wondering how and why,” he tells TIME. “Later on he caught a mantis and was just observing the way that they fight, the way they interact and then slowly developed a style based on its movements.”

Tung Kong Chow Ka Southern Praying Mantis is centered around a few seemingly simple sets of those movements. At Li’s gym, there are no flying kicks or Bruce Lee–style, falsetto yowls. Instead, there is the dull, repetitive whack of shin or elbow or fist on flesh, among which Li moves with a mantis’ coiled tension. Mastery comes through repetition and refinement. But since each movement has — to practitioners — infinite depth, mastery can be a long process. It takes five to six years of training before a student is even considered perfunctory.

The grandmaster of the Tung Kong Chow Ka, Lau Shui, moved to Hong Kong in the early part of the last century. Even then, and especially to a new arrival from Qing dynasty China, Hong Kong’s urban environment would have seemed fantastically alien. In the exciting, hothouse atmosphere of a foreign enclave, Lau broke away from the conservative attitudes surrounding martial arts and began teaching a form of praying mantis style to women. It was an astonishing act at a time when respectable Chinese females still thought it vaguely indecent to be seen outside of the home — but he also lost none of his toughness. Among his disciples was Ip Shui, whose feet the grandmaster would scorch with the bowl of his pipe to toughen them up.

https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/dsc05301-18.jpg?w=560&quality=85&h=374
Tang Ming Tung—International Guoshu Association
Chow Ka Southern Praying Mantis Master Li Tin-loy performs a set at a park in Hong Kong in 2016

Ip eventually proved worthy of carrying on the lineage, and taught Li for more than a decade, subjecting him to the same sort of arduous physical punishment. To this day, Li will invite an interlocutor to grip his neck and give it a squeeze. Astonishingly, nothing gives. It’s as if the years have grown him an invisible exoskeleton.

Between Li and Ip, and Ip and Lau, there was the close relationship between student and master of the kind once integral to the transmission of kung fu. Historically, students would travel for miles, and endure all sorts of privations, to find a master like Li, but the sifu acknowledges that such dedication today is a rarity. “The new generation doesn’t seem to be interested in learning this kind of cultural heritage — mainly because [they find it] really hard work and really boring,” he tells TIME.

There’s a Chinese adage he likes to quote to his followers: “Endless grinding will make a sword treasured, in the same way that plum blossoms acquire their scent after a bitter winter.” Nevertheless, his fear is that none among the new generation will be sufficiently dedicated to carry the lineage.

In Wo Hang, Lee shares the worry when it comes to the future of his Jiangxi Bamboo Forest Praying Mantis style. “When you start teaching without having picked up the whole package, there’s a bit less there,” Lee says. “The kung fu gets passed on again but less and less gets inherited, until finally it’s lost.”

‘A conversation between the past and the present’

The final keepers of Praying Mantis kung fu may not even be people but instead a bank of quietly humming servers at Hong Kong’s City University — located in the same Kowloon Tong neighborhood where Bruce Lee was raised, educated, and, in 1973, died.

Here, Professor Sarah Kenderdine (a specialist in creating interactive and immersive museum exhibits) and Professor Jeffrey Shaw (a leading figure in creating art from new forms of media) have been collaborating with the International Guoshu Association on what Shaw calls “a conversation between the past and the present.”

Using the same sort of motion-capture sensors employed by video-game developers, 1000-frames-per-second cameras and virtual-reality projections, this project at City University aims to record each of Hong Kong’s disappearing kung fu styles with digital accuracy before their last masters retire, become infirm or pass away.

On a recent Tuesday, Li performed the fundamental movement groups of Tung Kong Chow Ka Southern Praying Mantis in a black-walled room in Kowloon. The room was equipped with scores of scaffold-mounted video cameras. Dressed entirely in black and with almost 100 motion-capture sensors suckered to his body and head the sifu looked more insectoid than ever.

https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/kung-fu-motion-visualization-01.jpg?w=560&quality=85
Tobias Gremmler for City University of Hong Kong.
Still from video of motion visualization at 300 Years of Hakka Kung Fu exhibit at City University of Hong Kong.

Shaw tells TIME that data taken from the recordings of Li will be fed into various installations, which are currently displayed in an exhibition entitled 300 Years of Hakka Kung Fu at the university’s School of Creative Media. One of the displays recreates a typical training hall: there is the scent of incense, information on Chinese medicines, and recordings of the thumps and thuds made at Li’s Mong Kok studio. Another display called “Re-Actor” shows different perspectives of a martial artist thrusting and whirling a spear. When Shaw presses a button on a panel in front of the display, it reveals the shapes of movements through space and time, or the traces left by the paths of the martial artist’s limbs and weapons.

So far, around 40 kung fu styles have been recorded by Shaw, Kenderdine and their team, including Jiangxi Bamboo Forest, Tung Kong Chow Ka Southern, and Iron Ox. The hope is that the work will strengthen the argument for the creation of an institute for Chinese martial studies in Hong Kong, which, Chao says, is the surest way to ensure that local forms of kung fu will be preserved.

For now, the hope is that City University’s work will create a renewed interest in kung fu, attracting the attention of young, digital-savvy Hong Kongers at a time when a desire for greater autonomy or even independence from China — which resumed sovereignty of Hong Kong from Britain in 1997 — has forced many here to define and isolate a uniquely Hong Kong culture as opposed to a generically Chinese one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gayZyYqhjA

Back in 1962, a renowned Bamboo Forest sifu called Wong Yuk-kwong came to Wo Hang village in the New Territories. That was the summer 9-year-old Lee was mesmerized by dancing unicorns, and when he learned the visiting sifu also practiced the unicorn dance he resolved to become a disciple.

But Lee’s family was poor and couldn’t afford the monthly tuition, which worked out, in those days, to the local equivalent of $1.70. Instead he would stand at the edges of the classes. Every evening, alone, he would then practice the movements he had seen. Eventually, noting the boy’s dedication, the master consented to take him on as his disciple, waiving training fees and asking only that he brew him a pot of tea every evening.

Fifty-four years later, things are brewing once again for Lee, and for Praying Mantis kung fu.

—With reporting by Kevin Lui / Hong Kong

Nice bit of long form journalism for TIME. Kudos to the author.

sanjuro_ronin

01-11-2017, 06:18 AM

Unfortunately, SPM masters in China ( I don't think in the USA the situation is so bad) have no one to blame but themselves.
There is a tendency to be overly secret about their art ( not a bad thing per say BUT still an issue) and then they have to realize that they are "competing" with modern sports arts that, starting off, are more effective than the Hakka arts.
See, new generations are attracted to MA for simple reasons:
They want to learn to fight.
They want to exercise in something different.
They want some spiritual/discipline oriented system with exercise benefits (and perhaps self-defense benefits as well).

SPM, the way it is taught, doesn't really appeal to people looking for the above.

Many specialized systems end up going the way of the Do-do because there is no interest in them and what little interest there is, the masters don't address it.