Mook Jong Video Set please

[Rolling Elbow]

Geez, why didn't i just post it here in the first place. ..Who can recommend a good video on the use of the Wooden Dummy? Not interested in something like the "Slam Set"..I want to see good movement and improvisation BASED on the original forms or 108, 116 techniques. I'd like to enhance my training and use a Mook I am building but would like a little structure rather than just going wild on the thing..I think practice on the mook will help my hands and mobility and overall coordination. Anybody have any recommendations?

[anerlich]

Rick Spain has a video out on the 108 movements as performed in TWC, with some applications. Filmed from several angles, including overhead, slo-mo, etc.

www.combatcentres.com

[Wingman]

Not interested in something like the "Slam Set"..I want to see good movement and improvisation BASED on the original forms or 108, 116 techniques.

I think Randy William's dummy video is what you might be looking for. According to him, it is not the classical dummy form but his own interpretation of the form. Each technique is shown first using the dummy with several repetitions. There is even a top view especially if the technique involves stepping and/or pivoting. Then the application of the technique is shown. The video also shows how the dummy technique can be adapted into a two-man drill.

"If you think your opponent is a dummy, then you are the dummy" -- Randy Williams

[Sihing73]

Hello,

There are several options for Wooden Dummy videos available. Basically some of the ones already mentioned are good choices. For what it may be worth I will provide a list of some that I know of. The key is to find one which offers you what you want in a manner which you can derive benefit from. Some very good videos may not have the flair or your flavor. But, you can not learn from a video so keep that in mind as well. Rather I should say you should not rely ONLY on a video for your traing.

Randy Williams-several videos out on the dummy. Some cover the form and some cover training techniques. I have not seen them but an old student of mine picked up one of his videos and liked it.

Augustine Fong-Has a series out on several aspects of the system. He has a video devoted soley to the dummy.

Rick Spain-I have his video and it is not a bad choice. It has a few differences than most dummy forms but it is not that bad as a choice.

Stephen Chan-I believe that he has a video out covering the three forms and the dummy. Miay even have the weapons as well.

Chung Kwok Chow-He has two tape set on the video which is fairly detailed. I will not say more as I am a bit biased ;)

Here is a link to some videos. I believe that this is of the William Cheung lineage. http://www.wingchun.hu/engvideos.html

Hope some of this is helful.

Peace,

Dave

[gnugear]

I have the Fong video, but I don't know how accurate it is since I don't know the dummy set yet. I've read a lot of info (trolling?) on the VT forum claiming that he made stuff up ...

[yuanfen]

Accurate? What do you mean? By what standards? Leung Ting's book? Yip Chun posing for supposedly missing sections? Chopped up film just before Ip Man's death? Yip man himself constantly worked on arrangements and rearrangements throughout the years.Few learned the dummy directly from him.. Will be happy to discuss your accuracy remark further if you have a specific question? So you get your wisdom from the vtaa
thingaling? Funny. No red 5 is funnier.
Actually, gettinga knowledgeable teacher to show you the details of the dummy motions is IMO much better than videos. BTW- if you get Moy Yats dummy book- you will see that the first 2/3 of the dummy form is similar to Fong's. The last third has some biu jee principles and leg motions and recovering the line principles built into it.
Of course easy for me to say- since i didnt learn from videos.
Dont learn from videos.
Just wait for red5's insights into Carl's pioneering. The new installment will begin soon in the morning with down time from work..

[anerlich]

If I remember correctly, William Cheung's site (www.cheungswingchun.com) has some videos of dummy fragments as well.

S73, good answer to the question.

Yuanfen is correct, learning from video is going to be hard IMO. Vids work best (in WC anyway IMO) as a reference while you're learning from someone directly. And as with anything else in WC, there are significant variations between lineages.

IMO grappling arts lend themselves better to video learning, but there's still no substitute for a good instructor.

Yeah, yuanfen, I'm also awaiting the red tide after the US weekend.

[gnugear]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Accurate? What do you mean? By what standards? Leung Ting's book? Yip Chun posing for supposedly missing sections? Chopped up film just before Ip Man's death? Yip man himself constantly worked on arrangements and rearrangements throughout the years.Few learned the dummy directly from him.. Will be happy to discuss your accuracy remark further if you have a specific question? So you get your wisdom from the vtaa
thingaling? Funny. No red 5 is funnier.
Actually, gettinga knowledgeable teacher to show you the details of the dummy motions is IMO much better than videos. BTW- if you get Moy Yats dummy book- you will see that the first 2/3 of the dummy form is similar to Fong's. The last third has some biu jee principles and leg motions and recovering the line principles built into it.
Of course easy for me to say- since i didnt learn from videos.
Dont learn from videos.
Just wait for red5's insights into Carl's pioneering. The new installment will begin soon in the morning with down time from work..

Like I said, I have no basis for comparison since I haven't learned the set yet. I bought the video before I even started learning Wing Chun. And I agree, the VTAA forum is a joke ... that's why I inserted the "trolling" disclaimer.

didn't mean to offend in any way.

[yuanfen]

gnugear-No problem. direct instruction is the best way to learn . The devil is in the details. One doesnt learn ballet by video, boxing or wrestling by video, violin by video- why would wing chun be different?

[stuartm]

Hi.

One of the best ive seen is by Sifu Paul O'Neal who has trained significantly with both Ip brothers and Samuel Kwok. It is called 'Way of the Wooden Man' It has the whole form close-up at full and slow speed, as well as section at a time. It also has applications at full speed. It is one of the best ive seen. The production is also excellent.

Go to www.wingchunmagazine.co.uk for further info.

Regards, Stuart

[kungfu cowboy]

I believe that on the DVD version of Randy Williams' video there is a shirt-on or shirt-off option included.

[vingtsunstudent]

hey there big cowboy, you got a spare smoke big fella.
and i'll take that with shirt off option please;)

please please PLEASE say it isn't so.
vts

[black and blue]

You're quite right, Sir.

T-Shirt off is really cool. Randy has big muscles.

The DVD version also has a joke-free option, just in case (though I can't see why), you don't fancy jokes such as... "Jeep sau... that's what we do, treat him like he's in the army and meet him with a jeep!"

That was a cool joke. Almost as good as...

"Yer... Elvis was pretty good at Huen Sau. You ain't nothing but a Huen Dog!"

Randy is without doubt the coolest man in Wing Chun. I have a few of his videos and they crack me up... Big Time!

Duncan

[red5angel]

yuanfen said - "So you get your wisdom from the vtaa
thingaling? Funny. No red 5 is funnier"

what is funny to me is that everytime that subject come sup, we see an epic yuanfen post. Whats the deal with that Yuanfen? Why so sensitive? I think you would be doing more good to talk about it openly without freaking out. I fhe chaned something who cares? So what if someone out there thinkst taht makes it fake, if it works and sticks to wing chun shouldnt that be ok? Like you said, people play with the forms all the time.

[burnsypoo]

http://www.sunnytang.com/video/index.html

I believe he also put out a video specifically on the mook jong around 1990, if you can find that somewhere.
-BP-

[Nat from UK]

I dont personally prescribe to his methods but anyone who can keep a straight face and come out with

"Fook them if they can't take a jut" Can't be all that bad
Nat from UK

[black and blue]

You have to like the chap if only for his inability to take himself seriously....

Randy Williams: "People say I give good head butt... but what I don't know!"

Randy Williams: "That was a perfect application of the stupid trap... which would explain the damp spot!"

And last but not least (and said with a straight face)...

Randy Williams: "There you can see a waist trap... Oprah has a real problem with this one."

THE MAN'S A WING CHUN LEGEND! :D

[Crow1981]

'Way of the Wooden Dummy' Video by Sifu Paul O'Neal is good. Paul is a very skilled fighter. He also kindly showed me a bit of BJJ the last time I met him. My home is 10 minutes away from his club and I've seen him demonstrate his stuff on the dummy and then on me first hand.

[Patrick Gordon]

In regards to Wingmans post:

"I think Randy William's dummy video is what you might be looking for. According to him, it is not the classical dummy form but his own interpretation of the form."

I am glad he is no longer giving credit to Augustine Fong, but it is a bit odd that he says it is his OWN interpretation, since his form has the same sequence as Fong sifu's form. I also wonder what he means by "not the classical dummy form"?

How odd.

Patrick Gordon.

[black and blue]

Are you mad? You're going to open up a nasty can of worms and Yuanfen's going to flip out :)

I think by CLASSICAL he means the Yip Man sequence to the dummy, as opposed to his modified version. Where he got it from, I don't know.

Also, what's up with your website? I tried to get to it several times last week and got a blank page. Hope all is well.

Duncan

[yuanfen]

Black and Blue sez: Patrick
Are you mad? You're going to open up a nasty can of worms and Yuanfen's going to flip out
------------------------------------------------------------------
Duncan- flip out? No. The center holds.
If someone wants to buy badly plagiarised undigested and misrepresented stuff who am i to battle ignorance.
I leave it up to our savior red5 to battle the forces of
darkness and bad wing chun from Minneapolis-"Is this the Way to san Jose""?

[Patrick Gordon]

In regards to Duncan's post:

Are you mad?

Not at all, I actually found it funny enough to post, which I don't often do. PG

You're going to open up a nasty can of worms and Yuanfen's going to flip out

Yuanfen can handle himself. PG

I think by CLASSICAL he means the Yip Man sequence to the dummy, as opposed to his modified version.

Each and every Yip Man line dummy form I've seen has been different. i can't see the difference between modified and classical? PG

Where he got it from, I don't know.

I don't know either? PG

Also, what's up with your website? I tried to get to it several times last week and got a blank page. Hope all is well.

As far as I know it still works. the information getting to my site is a tad slow but I hope to have some updates pretty soon. Give this direct link a try: http://www.cyberus.ca/~p.gordon/WingChunOttawa.htm

Take care, sincerely,

Patrick Gordon.

Duncan

[Patrick Gordon]

hey yuenfen,

Why haven't you flipped out yet? I was looking forward to hearing what you had to say. Don't tell me you've gotten a threatening email from someone? BTW, I was told you have the same dummy form as RW. You didn't teach it to him did you? I hate that non-classical stuff.

The trouble making, can opening Canadian,

Patrick Gordon.

[yuanfen]

BTW, I was told you have the same dummy form as RW---
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ahem-Painting by numbers and understanding art are two quite different things Patrick. I leave painting by numbers to others.
Flip out? No way. The center holds...laughter is the appropriate response to much fooloshness.

[Rolling Elbow]

Patrick Gordon,

I see your Fong's Wing Chun posters all around downtown. You will be happy to know that when people ask me what martial art they should take for exercise and real fighting skill, I tell em Wing Chun with you guys because you are more central than Sunny Tang is.. You guys better deliver! As for my style, not many people have the patience to put up with the learning curb and it often seems "boring" or too painful for them. I've wathced some of Fong's stuff, I must say that i like the way he moves. In fact, he looks like one of the more competent masters out there..he's definitely solid and combat based. Have any of you wing Chun guys checked out Duncan Leung? I like what i see from him as well. For some reason, something about Sunny Tang rubs me the wrong way.. I suspect he is overly regimented in his teaching and holds back on what he teaches his students..then again, what do i know!

[yuanfen]

Rolling elbow- videos are incomplete representations.
I have seen some samples of what DL does. There are differences... and naturally similarities.

[Patrick Gordon]

I see your Fong's Wing Chun posters all around downtown. RE


It is the only way I am able to afford advertising. PG

You will be happy to know that when people ask me what martial art they should take for exercise and real fighting skill, I tell em Wing Chun with you guys because you are more central than Sunny Tang is.. You guys better deliver! RE

Thanks you for the compliment. I don't like to compare myself to others tho. As for delivering, I think my classes are pretty good and I also think my guys are doing pretty good as well. PG

As for my style, not many people have the patience to put up with the learning curb and it often seems "boring" or too painful for them. RE

Sounds aweful! What the hell is it? PG

I've wathced some of Fong's stuff, I must say that i like the way he moves. In fact, he looks like one of the more competent masters out there..he's definitely solid and combat based. RE

I ended up with sifu Fong because of the way he moves and from his writings. I helped open the first wing chun school here in Ottawa under Sunny Tang's (then Dunn Wah) name. I later joined sifu Fong's family and am quite happy with him. PG

Have any of you wing Chun guys checked out Duncan Leung? I like what i see from him as well.

No I haven't. Don't know anything about him really. I beleive I read an article some time ago about him and I recall not really liking it, but I can't remember why? PG

For some reason, something about Sunny Tang rubs me the wrong way.. I suspect he is overly regimented in his teaching and holds back on what he teaches his students..then again, what do i know! RE

No comment axept for they do legitimate wing chun. I am also very close friends with one of his high ranking students. PG

[Sihing73]

Hello,

This reply was moved from the Biu Jee topic as it appears to be a reply to Rolling Elbow for this thread. I was unable to move the post without merging the threads so I figured this would be the best option.

Peace,

Dave

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video recommendation
Hello again, rolling elbow,

I have not seen a lot of vidoes regarding the wooden dummy. I do know that at "The Martial Artist" you are able to rent Sifu Fong's video tape on the dummy. It is an ok video. It shows form and some basic application. There is a also a video from Sunny Tang which I have neve seen and well as a vidoe from Randy Williams. Rent all three, get a bag of popcorn and be the judge. take care, regards,

patrick Gordon.

[Rolling Elbow]

Patrick Gordon..

I study Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu or "ninjutsu" if you prefer. Totally legit, all papers and guidance from Japan! No masks or funny shoes, realistic drills based on traditional methods,concepts and body postures.