Scary Thing Happened to Me Today

[Water Dragon]

About 3 hours into class today, we were running drills and I just lost it. We were doing line drills for footwork, up and down the park and my body just gave out. I didn't feel like I was going to throw up or pass out. My body just wouldn't work anymore if that makes sense.

My teacher thinks I may have just run out of sugar because of all the humidity (excessive sweating) I didn't eat before class, but I never do. We work out from 8 - 12 or 1 so I usually just eat afterwords. I was advised to bring pop and hard candy from now on until it cools down.

Anyone else ever experience this? It's like my brain said. OK Larry, you're done for today. It was a pretty scary experience.

[LEGEND]

OVERTRAINING...be careful...u could die...no lie...u're body needs rest...

[Royal Dragon]

Myungjae had me doing stance traning yesterday, and several times I just fell over. He told me were done for the day too, but I got up and did a little more anyway. Especially the twisted horse stance as I KNEW I could do better than I did. My leg actually went dead after a few stances, and I almost just fell over wile walking it off. And to think I was mad at him for not letting me go a full 2 minutes on each stance (He stopped me at 60 seconds each):rolleyes:

Part of it is a mental thing, and part is probually not eating. I always eat some sort of raw fruites and or veggies before I train, and sometimes a good shot of genseng.

Did he have you do the drill for escapeing footwork? That one trashed my back big time. I felt it only a bit yesterday, but when I got up from bed this morning (If you call that flop to the floor getting up) I was in serious pain. He's got to be mad at me for not showing tjhis morning. I called and left a message on his machine, but I feel guilty as I promised him I'd be there.

[Royal Dragon]

When I was in my md 20's, I used to do ALL my training like that. I would just keep going as hard as I could no matter what until complete collapse to the point where I would litteraly lay there unable to get up as much as 45 minutes after. Once I could get up again, I always stretched for another 20-30 minutes.

I don't know if it's because I'm older and smarter, or just more lazy, but I either can't or won't push myself that hard anymore. Having done it many times, I will go up to that level of fatigue, but I don't actually go into that threshold anymore.

I sugjest you take 2 days off for complete relaxation to recover. Recovery is a science now'a days ya know. Try to get extra sleep too as you will develop quite a bit from this if you play it right. In fact if you train that hard 2-3 times a week, your development will explode beyond your beliefe, I know I did it before.

Load up on the protine before bed, your body will need it to build wile you sleep.

[PLCrane]

Hm, I see a pattern emerging. It must be some illness specific to dragons, and it happened at the same time, so it must be seasonal.

Seriously, guys, make sure you're getting enough potassium and magnesium.

[Royal Dragon]

We have the same teacher.

It's not really a dietary thing for me, especially when I was in my mid 20's. Infact even when I was eating perfectly (Except for my addiction to raw frozen cookie dough :eek: ), it just took longer to get there, that's all.

It's a weird feeling, a total paralysis as if your body is sound asleep, but your mind in in a hieghtened state of awareness because you are training so hard. Sometimes I could sit up, but that was about it. Forget standing for 20 minutes or so. I always got my best gains when I would train to that point 2-3 times a week. If I didn't have a life, I'd be a Kung Fu god by now for sure.

[Mr Punch]

When DO you last eat before training?

Your body needs carbohydrates for fuel. If you don't have those, you're in trouble, and I'm surprised this hasn't happened before.

If you don't have anything inside you, your body will start to burn the fat (a good thing obviously) and the muscle (a bad thing obviously). Complex carbs (veggies, cereals and their products) are better than sugar and other simple carbs, for a couple of reasons. I generally avoid sugary products until after training (I would definitely say avoid pop: try a carb/fructose drink), when the right kind of sugars, and proteins can help rebuild damaged tissue.

Try posting on the health forum. There are some good dietician types on there!

[dre]

I've nearly fainted in my Mantis class several times. I have to watch it- I go out like a light. I get very little warning from my body. I have an enourmous pain threshold. All of a sudden I get very dizzy and start to black out.

I've only fainted totally once in Mantis though. But we work very hard in that class, more than most MA classes IMO.

I've also been chocked out (during practice) in an Aikido class.

In fenicng, I've never fainted in Armour, but we all take special care there, since you can die of exuastion with all that heavy equipment on. It's happened before, quite a bit.

[NPMantis]

Hey mate,

Really sorry to hear what happened, a similar thing happened to me, went to a WC class and after 30 mins my body gave up and I nearly vomited. It was terrible. I hadn't eaten properly before training, just a chocolate bar on the way as I was really hungry.

I think you should eat properly, look after your body.

Take care,

NPM.

[Royal Dragon]

Well, maybe for Water Dragon, but for me I'm always careful to eat a good rice and raw veggi mix before I train. I often throw in a bit of meat and teriaki sauce for the protine and taste. I have found that if I don't do this I just can't push as hard, and my pratice just sux.

I'm also prone to getting pounding almost migrane like headaches if I push myself too hard. I could eat a whole bottle of aspirin and it won't help, but if I eat half a hamburger it's gone in 20 minutes (which is why I add meat to my pre practice meal)

[12345]

I've been doing a bit of reading up about marathon running and long distance cycling (mainly because I've been doing a bit of running and cylcling). They talk about the body being able to go about 2 hours before it hits the "bonk" (hey I don't make this up!) which means your body can't operate to anything like its normal level. In running this might sometimes be called hitting the wall - you are going along OK and suddenly bang - you find you are walking.

Just speculating but if you are training hard for 4 hours you could be experiencing a similar thing. The recommend snacking to maintain your energy supply. I'm sure there are people on here that will explain the science of this but basically I would agree with the people that are telling you to eat and drink a little during training. Some things are probably better than others.

[crumble]

Heh, it's probably a Chicago humidity thing.

I bonked last week, but it fortunately came between classes so I could sneak out without much disruption. I did some weight training at work earlier, plus the chi kung and kicking drills we were doing - my legs stopped listening to me.

WD, I think it is a "rest" issue. I know I was well fed at the time, but probably overtrained.

I have to admit I think it's a product of being in my 30's more than anything. The recovery time is getting slower. I agree with RD, I used to train until exaustion when I was in my late teens and early twenties (and this was at high altitude!) and there wasn't much of a problem recovering.

**** this slowing metabolism! It leaves the fat on and make recovery slower. Where is the justice in that? :(

Train smarter but not harder!

-crumble

[{i^(]

You'd been training for ~3 hours, so I'm guessing thats relatively normal for you & class? Good article on recovering from marathons could help with taking care of yourself afterwards- just pointers and explanantions, really.

http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/features/marathonrecovery.htm

from that:
"The body will need to reverse the following changes in order to fully recover:.

-Fuel stores (glycogen) become depleted. The body simply runs out of fuel. This can be delayed by taking on carbohydrates during the race.
-Lactic acid is produced. This is a by-product of burning fuel anaerobically or without oxygen. Lactic Acid is thought to prevent muscle enzymes from helping to convert glycogen into energy and inhibit the nerve signals to the muscles themselves.
-Damage may occur to muscle, bone, tendon or even cartilage. Overuse injuries may result or more commonly DOMS (Delayed Onset of Muscle Soreness) - see below.
-Dehydration. If the body gets dehydrated, the blood volume is also reduced. This means that less oxygen is able to get to the muscles where it can be used as fuel. All metabolic reactions in the body require water. Even a small decrease in the bodies fluid levels can result in a large decrease in performance. "

[Royal Dragon]

Has anyone noticed he hasn't responded to this thread at all?

[Water Dragon]

I'm OK. Just been busy. Thanks for the advice guys. I think it was a no food/dehydration deal. I'm gonna start eating before class from now on. That should fix it.

[red5angel]

Waterdragon, a few years back and in high school I ran long distance. We averaged around 10-13 miles a day. I saw this happen to a few people and we talked about it often enough. If you have ever experience it at all, then get some of those little sugar cookies and gatorade, most importantly the gatorade, and drink it often.
Kool-aid works pretty well, and it sounds like your instructor was dead on. Usually itmeans your sugars have been broke down so much your body is attacking the muscle. Drinking after it happens wont help you in the short term although you should get something sweet to drink and maybe a candy bar or something. snickers bars were common fair in our backpacks and bags.

[Royal Dragon]

No no no!!!! We are trying to turn Water Dragon into a Kung Fu GOD!!!, not the pilsberry dogh boy Iv'e become (I'm down another 2 pounds sinc Saturday though).

It's much better to have a HUGE boul of fresh fruits or rice and raw veggies befor you train. That pre loads you, and is full of vital nutreients and carbs as well.

For an added nutritional boost I sugjest some Bee Pollen. Not the wussy capsuals either, but the full blown fresh from the hive pollen granuals.

Eat like two mouthfulls before training, and then one more after to help recovery. Sometimes one before training and one after plus the third right before bed is good too. That way you have a solid nutritional boost for the nights building and repair.

Bee Pollen is packed with Amino acids, and really helps with development. Plus it's like rocket fule so you can train harder.

A good shot of Genseng or MJ's training wine rounds it out perfectly.

Then, just train untill you collapse a few times a week and your set.

The other thing, WD has a low body fat %. When you train that long and hard you are actually buring more fat than carbs, so it may be a good idea for him to get some more fat in his diet. Adding some olive oil to his raw veggies and increasing his meat intake will do the job and boost his protine intake to boot (for building big strong muscles).

But candy bars??? No, that's for diabetics with glycos balancing problems. Not a future Kung Fu God in the making.

[MonkeySlap Too]

I could be wrong, but aren't twinkies made with Bee Pollen?

But seriously, I think RD is right on this one. Especially as this little group is ageing, you can really feel the difference in the energy you get between a snicker bar and a nectarine.

[red5angel]

Royal Dragon, Fruit and Veggies are always a better choice BUT, candy bars can provide you with needed sugar much faster. Look at gatorade, and those sports bars. The idea behind them is not about diet, but about getting the things your body burns. If Waterdragon is working hard, a candy bar is burned away with no 'ill' effects. Otherwise plan on carrying a large bowl of fruit, especially high sugar fruits, like strawberries and watermelon. In either case you get a lot of the same thing, one just comes in a pre-wrapped small package!

[Royal Dragon]

One is loaded with Chi, or a nutrient dense high quality food.

The other is empty refined sugar your body barley knows how to use anyway.

[red5angel]

I suppose that depends on how you feel about qi? I did it for 10 years and did just fine.......

[Royal Dragon]

Nutrient dense foods = Chi Rich
Empty refined sugar foods = Chi deficient.

[Nexus]

That comment regarding potasium was a great one. Bananas are an exellent source of it and really light in the belly. You can munch down two bananas before practice, and they have great potassium, are lightweight and not very acidic. They also have a nice water content.

[Royal Dragon]

My daughter does that as a pre practice meal before gymnastics training quite often.

[The Willow Sword]

working out causes your blood sugar to drop, and in martial arts training I have found that it drops drastically. the humidity and sweating is what we in austin are used to. so whenever i have trained in the past i have ALWAYS HAD a powerade or something with a little bit of glucose to keep the brain and body going.
i have hypoglycemia(Low blood sugar) an over active pancreas that juts out too much insulin. to compenstae i have to be on a diet that is similar to the diabetics diet. but i cheat alot. sugar is just soo **** addictive. ginseng in your powerade is good. the the ginseng will attach itself to the sugar molecules and hit your system fast. if you are looking for a more "natural" method.
try water(4cups), ginseng extract(2vials), 2 tsp salt, lime juice(half lime) and HONEY(2TBS). you might have to heat the water up a bit to allow for the honey to evenly distribute as honey just sinks to the bottom. anyway i use this when ever i go outbacking in the wilderness.

MAny Respects,,,The Willow Sword

[Royal Dragon]

Of course if your training right you should hit that "Exaughstion" no matter what you do in 3 hours. If you get to 2 1/2 hours and still feel fine, hold stances for the final 30 minutes, and you'll get there.