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toddbringewatt
10-07-2001, 06:30 PM
Hey fellas,

I just read something interesting over on the "MA and Christ" thread.

In response to someone's post:

"Buddhism has now become something of an intellectual persuit, a popular religion amongst celebrities and college students"

Sharky wrote the following:

"I think you're thinking of Scientology!!"

Then Anarcho replied:

"Scientology or drugs..."

Now, I happen to be a Scientologist and I happen to know for a fact that anyone who has really inspected Scientology, what it is and what it does, would never make comments like the above.

I used to have opinions like the above and worse, but then I decided to actually look and think for myself. And what I found impressed me (a cynic) enough that I chose to give it a try. And you know what? It worked. I kicked a long-time drug habit and ended up feeling better than I had since I was 5. Because of this, I continued to take advantage of Scientology services and found that Scientology actually has a great deal to offer in practically any area of one's life. As impressive as my first gains were (including a 6 point IQ increase) everything I've done since has been increasingly more and more impressive.

I have no gripe with people making comments like the above, but for the fact that Scientology really has a lot to offer that actually does help people, and I'd hate to see someone miss out on this simply because of somebody's uneducated prejudice.

Check it out for yourself, guys. You, like me, just might be very pleasantly surprised. And remember that you can't always believe everything you read. Don't just browse the internet. There ARE people in this world whose intentions are sometimes something less than simply keeping you informed, and those with the best intentions don't necessarily know what they're talking about.

And really the best way to learn about anything is to observe it first-hand. I could sit on this forum all day long and ask you guys questions about Kung Fu and browse around on the internet trying to find out about martial arts. But as has often been pointed out by able and intelligent people right here on this forum; the only REAL way I'm going to learn about Kung Fu is to "come on down and see it for yourself."

Well, touche. At LEAST pick up a Scientology book and read it. And have fun. :)

"Bruce Leroy. That's who!"

[This message was edited by Bruce Leroy on 10-08-01 at 10:00 AM.]

nightair
10-08-2001, 12:21 AM
your name is the coolest. The movie "The Last Dragon" rules! :)

DOH!!

gfhegel21
10-08-2001, 12:32 AM
Check www.xenu.net (http://www.xenu.net)

Then head over to 's pages, and make up your own mind.

Prediction: Leroy will make one or more of the following claims: I have been brainwashed, www.xenu.net (http://www.xenu.net) is all lies and misrepresentations, psychiatry is evil, that Elron Hubbard was a saint, that all of the critics of just want to win money in suits against scientology OR are working for pharmaceutical, psychiatric, or other interests, OR are simply discontents, probably insane, who have left the church.

Plus, there are probably a dozen more that I'll get hit with. If you're at all interested, go to the pages I mentioned and make up your own mind.

Leroy, have you gotten rid of all your thetan clusters? How much money have you sunk into the cult?

Tora
10-08-2001, 12:33 AM
I suggest you type Scientology into your favorite search engine and check it out a little further. The scandals around Scientology would make Tammy Faye blush.

Waidan
10-08-2001, 12:35 AM
Hmm. Are we talking about L. Ron Hubbard "Battlefield Earth" Scientology?

Err..no.

I'm glad you like your religion. But this has SO little to do with Kung Fu.

Royal Dragon
10-08-2001, 12:39 AM
I think they drove Cynthia Cisssenger(?) to bankruptcy, and then bought the Cult Awareness network out from under her, and now run it.

It's like satan buying the catholic church, and useing it to tell every one he's really god.

Actually, I "LOVE" Scientoligists, my favirite movie was "Battle field Earth"!!! And I have become a clear so many times I'm actually transparent now!!


"Chi is Chinese for Spinach"

Check out the Royal Dragon Web site

http://www.Royaldragon.4dw.com

gfhegel21
10-08-2001, 12:42 AM
Tora: You're right of course, but Leroy will be one-hundred percent convinced that all of that information is simply lies and misrepresentations. That is, unless he is part of one of the "reform" sects of (they are few) that admits past misdeeds but claims it's all better now (not true).

I just want it on the record that I bear no animosity toward Leroy.

In any case, this discussion has no place on this board, and I'm surprised the moderators haven't removed this thread.

Tora
10-08-2001, 12:44 AM
"Xenu was supposed to have gathered up all the overpopulation in this sector of the galaxy, brought them to Earth and then exterminated them using hydrogen bombs. The souls of these murdered people are then supposed to infest the body of everyone. They are called "body thetans". On the advanced levels of Scientology a person "audits out" these body thetans telepathically by getting them to re-experience their being exterminated by hydrogen bombs. So people on these levels assume all their bad thoughts and faulty memories are due to these body thetans infesting every part of their body and influencing them mentally. Many Scientologists go raving mad at this point if they have not done so already"


BWAHAHAHA!!!!

TAKE ME TO YOUR LEADER!

I am always amazed at how many people they get to buy into this crap…

JasBourne
10-08-2001, 01:00 AM
My thetan made me do it. ;)

Black Jack
10-08-2001, 02:29 AM
Cough...cough...cult....oh, excuse me, pardon me.

I have to go, John Travolta is here to heal my crab infestation.

Regards

jimmy23
10-08-2001, 05:32 AM
whats with the blue contacts all the Scientologists I see on TV wear?


"You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting"
Spinning Backfist

Scott R. Brown
10-08-2001, 05:44 AM
The fact is that Bruce Leroy found some benefits in Scientology and it seems to continue to help him improve his life. We should be cautioning him, yes, but ridiculing him, no. He is not proselytizing, merely stating the benefits Scientology has provided him. Most people would defend their religion if attacked and I do not fault him for this.

Having said that, I have had friends that are deeply steeped in Scientology. I found the religion controlling of their lives and, yes, that is cultish. Eventually, I was not even allowed to visit my friends on the Scientology grounds or off the grounds and I never said anything against the religion, they just couldn’t manipulate me like they could my friends. My friends’ lives did not improve, they went from nice girls to completely messed up because the religion always shows you what they decide are your problems and fill you with horror stories of how your life will end up if you do not pay “BIG BUCKS” to get ”CLEAR” ( “CLEAR” is Scientology jargon for spiritual advancement.). I know this for a fact because they tried it on me and I did not fall for it. Which is why I was no longer allowed on the grounds of their facility.

Scientology is clearly a cult and they attempt to control the lives of at least some of their members. I also have a problem with any religion that places conditions on their member’s opportunity to progress spiritually. Scientology charges ever-increasing amounts of money as one progresses through their programs. I believe that it is everyone’s God given right to progress spiritually and assistance should be provided free of charge. Otherwise the rich benefit and the poor get screwed just like in everything else in society.

It is well established that L. Ron Hubbard decided to start a religion to keep from paying taxes on his profits. That is why he spent the end of his life on a boat outside the U.S. territorial limits. They also have a legal team and enforcement squad to quell the complaints of former members and anti-cult organizations. No true religion needs an enforcement wing because the truth can stand on it own in the face of questioning. Falsehood will always eventually be revealed.

As a last comment, many of the philosophical aspects of my first MA (An eclectic Kung-Fu style) are related to some of the principles of Scientology. They do work and are of benefit to those who practice the principles diligently. It is not the principles I have a problem with, they do work, it is the way they are controlled and given only to those who can pay that I cannot abide.

Sincerely,

Scott

toddbringewatt
10-08-2001, 06:57 AM
Thank you, nightair. :)

Scott, point taken. Thanks for the measure of defense. I find your experience strange and some of your facts aren't quite right. But I respect your opinion and would be more than willing to discuss this with you via email.

Regarding the issue of free services, who is supposed to pay for the very real costs of training and counseling which require space and personnel at least? A free world would be wonderful but it simply doesn't exist. I want to go to USC for free but tough.

jimmy,

What on Earth are you talking about?

As for the rest of you, you really ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

I wrote a very well thought out, friendly post, divulging a very personal part of my history. I attacked no one inspite of the fact that my religion was being attacked. And in response I get nothing but rudeness and childish tauntings.

The website mentioned is very interesting and very, oooh, controversial. It makes for humorous toilet reading. But again it isn't what Scientology is and I repeat if you WANT to know what Scientology is, read a book or better yet, stop by one of our churches and take a tour -- you'll see for yourself what really goes on there. There is nothing strange or mystical about it -- what you see is what you get despite what some people will have you believe.

Come on guys, every major movement, religious or otherwise, has been attacked. Especially when there are vested interests. Look at something as simple and uncontroversial as holistic healing or herbal remedies. How much has the AMA tried to suppress this? Scientology is relatively new so, of course, "scandals" abound. I understand you guys, because I used to buy the same black propaganda, but unlike you, I would never be so rude as to communicate it in the manner you have here.

The truth is Scientology is expanding at a rapid rate because it works in very real ways that have nothing to do with faith. I'm talking about drug-rehab, criminal rehabilitation, advances in literacy and education and real emotional relief and mental gain. Did you know our Volunteer Ministers were some of the only people allowed at ground zero in New York? They were there bringing physical, mental, and emotional relief to the firefighters and rescue workers. Two of my friends flew to N.Y. just to help. One of the firefighters gave a Volunteer Minister his own medal of honor after the minister applied a Scientology mental therapy process to him -- the firefighter saying to him, "You guys are the real heroes." I'm not talking out of my a$$ here. I know what I know because I have observed it for myself and nothing anyone can say can ever change that. Scientology has helped thousands of people, like myself. And it will continue to expand for this very reason, whether you like it or not.

The same search for self-improvement that led me to participate in the martial arts led me to Scientology, and the only reason I created this thread is for those of you who may be searching too. If so, check it out. I think you'll like it. Otherwise, I wish you well and I'll be chatting with you on other topics.

I won't be responding to any more trollish remarks. Anyone with genuine questions or comments please feel free to email me. Check my profile for address. This is my last post on this thread.

As a final note: I know too many Scientologists who are highly intelligent, genuine, decent, hard-working people, many of whom volunteer their time to help people learn to read, get off drugs, counsel criminals, etc. They don't deserve this kind of thoughtless disrespect. If you know enough Scientologists, then you know the above posts simply can't be true. That's what I came to realize when I decided to forgo my preconceptions and check it out for myself.

Good luck everybody and train hard! :)

"Bruce Leroy. That's who!"

jimmy23
10-08-2001, 07:02 AM
again i ask, whats with the blue contacts all the Scientologists I see on TV wear?


"You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting"
Spinning Backfist

toddbringewatt
10-08-2001, 07:05 AM
jimmy,

What on Earth are you talking about? Email me.

"Bruce Leroy. That's who!"

toddbringewatt
10-08-2001, 07:07 AM
Scott, you may have read my post before I edited it to include your statements. Please re-read and email me with any further communication.

Sorry for the additional posts everyone. Timing problem. New posts put there while crafting last response.

"Bruce Leroy. That's who!"

Scott R. Brown
10-08-2001, 07:08 AM
Bruce Leroy,

I hope you wrote your response prior to reading my remarks. I supported your position even though I have real problems with the way your religion is run. And my opinions are from personal experience as well and not hearsay. I even validated the benefits of the Scientology program.

Sincerely,

Scott

Scott R. Brown
10-08-2001, 07:10 AM
Bruce Leroy,

Indeed I did. Thanks for the heads up I will re-read it.

Sincerely,

Scott

Zhin
10-08-2001, 07:52 AM
How much have you spent of "sessions"? Is it more or less than you spent on drugs?

toddbringewatt
10-08-2001, 08:03 AM
Shin,

I promised not to post anymore on this thread, but I want to answer your question. Please email me. Check my profile. :)

"Bruce Leroy. That's who!"

IronFist
10-08-2001, 10:16 AM
Dude, evangelists, regardless of what religion they're evangelizing (I made up a word), SUCK!!!

Iron

Ryu
10-08-2001, 10:23 AM
Black Jack, you crack me up :)

No offense, Bruce Leroy, just thought what he said was funny. I'm always on the look out for "cultish" activity in religions. You can find it in Christianity, Buddhism, Hindu, etc...
I'm interested in seeing the controversies, but always keeping my distance :D

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.
Ryu

http://www.jkdu.co.za/pics/logos/jkduhpma1.gif


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

David
10-08-2001, 01:33 PM
Scientology is illegal in Germany. Microsoft had to rewrite a section of a major package (win98 or Office 97 I forget) because a Scientologist was in the credits for the coding. Until MS did that, the software couldn't be sold in Germany.

On a personal opinion level:

I have some experience with them in London and it was less than fantastic. I'd never encountered a whole room full of smug glazed smiles before.

Battlefield Earth was good for a single read (I read it (all 1065 pages) in a single sitting. All his other books read is if he gets paid per word... He's a prolific writer in the same way as prolonged diaorrhea can be described prolific - or Ashida Kim.

Scientology is one of those things that sells (and boy do you have to PAY!) by the blurb on the box. I remember being offered 10x20min audio tapes for £700 (at the time $1400).
And they care. If you stop for any reason, you get visited. And visited. And maybe visited again.

This is my personal take on it.

Best of luck to any members!

The powers of Kung Fu never fail!
-- Hong Kong Phooey

Stumblefist
10-08-2001, 01:45 PM
Hi Bruce,
Can you do Tone-40 over the internet?
I know you got some benefits but:
"BE CAREFUL MAN"!!!!!
(that was tone-29)

"And they care. If you stop for any reason, you get visited. And visited. And maybe visited again."
Yeah, and be careful when they get you alone in your e-mail box.
Everybody here seems to be wise to the org and somewhat sensible.
BEWARE: MONEY GRUBBING CULT (more tone-29)

"This is the end, Beautiful friend
This is the end, My only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end...
This is the end, Beautiful friend
This is the end, My only friend, the end
It hurts to set you free
But you'll never follow me"

origenx
10-08-2001, 03:09 PM
Didn't Ron L. Hubbard "steal" some of his ideas in Scientology from Buddhism?

Gigante
10-08-2001, 03:36 PM
Bruce Leroy, sure, scientologist's can do good things, they can give money to the red cross, they can donate blood and whatever. That doesn't mean that Scientology is a good thing.
Scientology is a sick cult thing, and everything about it sucks. It deserves to be ridiculed and laughed at.

Yes, I am afraid of you. Fanatics scare the **** out of me.

gfhegel21
10-08-2001, 04:05 PM
The whole thing about the ministers at the ground zero has been a big propaganda victory for Co$. They have been fighting and fighting to get their people in there.

First, they scammed Fox news into running the phone number for "National Mental Health Assistance" across the screen during coverage of the disaster. People who called this number spoke to body routers (recruiters). In any case, this number in effect directed grieving persons to people well-known to be opposed to the actual mental health community.

Second, they sent their "volunteer ministers" into the disaster area with the intention of, among other things, recruiting people and trying to keep people from talking to psychologists.

Perhaps some were actually there to help. But there is evidence that this was not their paramount goal. Check this page:

http://www.xenu.net/archive/events/20010911-tragedy/

for more details.

As for Xenu.net being controversial, this is simply false. Andreas Heldal-Lunt has a standing invitation for to correct any "errors" on his page. He has only received a few responses, several of them venomously attacking him personally without correcting ANY of the supposed "misinformation" on the page. Others found the information overwhelming and very illuminating.

In any case, most aren't allowed to read that web page in any event, as it's designated "black propaganda" by the church. That designation basically means that everything on the page is automatically a lie. To suggest otherwise contradicts the church, and you risk heresy or apostasy.

And you should definitely take a look at Tory Bezazian's story, a VERY high level who recently "blew" (to use their term), or finally became disillusioned with the lies she had been given (to be more frank about it). Fascinating woman with a fascinating story.

JasBourne
10-08-2001, 05:04 PM
Sorry, Bruce, but I don't agree with your "religion", and from personal experience have found it to operate in a very cultlike way. Yes, I have read a lot of the materials and talked to "church" members. Suffice it to say that I had to quit a decent job after the "church" bought the company, and change my phone number to get off my back.

Best of luck to you.

Nexus
10-08-2001, 05:57 PM
If Scientology works for you, then thats great. There are a lot of people who chose that route and their lives are significantly better then when the began it. This does not of course mean that they must stay scientologists the rest of their lives, nor does it mean that scientology was the only option for doing so. I personally have found a lot of disagreements with the "ways" scientologists go about promoting scientology, as I receive scientology letters in the mail after several requests to be removed from the mailing lists.

I have L. Ron Hubbards Dianetics book and have spoken with commited scientologists and found the majority of them to be nice people. They had nothing but great things to say about scientology, but also when I would commit my thoughts or ideas they were usually dismissed or disregarded with the emphasis that scientology had it all figured out already. That was just what I found and may not be something that exists all over. I will say however that money was obviously a big issue for the local scientology mission, and I pay less doing martial arts then I would have doing that.

- Nexus

Turiyan
10-08-2001, 06:31 PM
"Scientology is VEDISM with modern technology" --L. Ron Hubbard

Dont talk to sheep about the sheep hearder.

Its all bits and pieces of Brahmanism, Vedism, Shamanism, Tantra, Sacred geometry and a lot of lies and deception... Same ole, same old.

Rip off ideas you dont understand, declare yourself god and start your own cult/religon and make fame and fortune.

"In those movies the triad bosses are so heroic. But our bosses are such a-holes. The traid bosses made those movies to attract followers."
--Days of being stupid

Turiyan gold, Brahmin caste, Ordos clan
"A Brahmin, coming into existence, is born as the highest on earth, the
lord of all created beings, for the protection of the treasury of the
(natural) law. Whatever exists in the world is (by right), the
property of the Brahmin; on account of the excellence of his origin
(primogeniture and eminence of birth) The Brahmin is, indeed, entitled
to it all" --C1V99-V100 The laws of manu

Daedalus
10-08-2001, 06:39 PM
Scary stuff guys!

A lot of people thought Manson was a god too.

:eek:

Turiyan
10-08-2001, 06:56 PM
An old and suprisingly effective method of encoding and idea is through subsitution. A mind blowingly simplified method of this idea is the substitution of a word with X or Z.

Xenu, is actually Menu. Menu or Manu is the "great brahmin" who created the "Laws of menu" or "Laws of manu".

The LOM is the most important text of Brahminism, Buddhism, and Vedism. And is the fountain by which ALL religous thought flows from in the world. The roots of all religon are in sun worship.

Dont be too quick to judge guys. You may realize that you have been indoctrinated or inducted into these satanic hierarchys.

The source for decoding the dogma of orders, sacred and initiary rites, is the LOM.

Look closely and see the secret rituals of freemasonry, peganism, satanism, kung fu rituals, catholicism, ect.

Truth is stranger than fiction. Personally I dont care, just as long as you know your place in the world.

The rules of hierarchy are enforcable. Just take a look at some captures of these triad theme movies:

Blood ritual:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5382/bloodritual.jpg

Drinking from the chalice:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5382/chalice.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5382/cuttongue.jpg

They mix the blood and all share a sip. Mmmm, tasty.. Satanisms cool!
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5382/drinkblood.jpg

Its just customary...
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5382/knifebowls.jpg

Now your one of "us"...
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5382/markofcain.jpg

Shroud, skirts, leather aprons... Goats and powertools...
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5382/shroud.jpg

Turiyan gold, Brahmin caste, Ordos clan
"A Brahmin, coming into existence, is born as the highest on earth, the
lord of all created beings, for the protection of the treasury of the
(natural) law. Whatever exists in the world is (by right), the
property of the Brahmin; on account of the excellence of his origin
(primogeniture and eminence of birth) The Brahmin is, indeed, entitled
to it all" --C1V99-V100 The laws of manu

origenx
10-08-2001, 07:06 PM
I'm starting to come to conclusion that WORSHIP of anyTHING or anyONE is "wrong," and any group that does so is a cult.

Wouldn't a better way to revere and respect a great being be to uphold and "worship" the ideals and principles that made them great? Otherwise, slavish devotion to such a personality may be missing the point entirely - like worshipping the finger instead of the moon. But shouldn't the message be first, the messenger second (or irrelevant?) And wouldn't a messenger who tries to persuade otherwise, be more interested in self-promotion, self-glory and self-power than empowering others?

Ryu
10-08-2001, 07:07 PM
Turiyan, I have a question.
If you're indeed Buddhist (Hindu) whatever you are.... why do you constantly refer to everything as "Satanism" ???

Ryu

http://www.jkdu.co.za/pics/logos/jkduhpma1.gif


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

jimmy23
10-08-2001, 07:14 PM
Satan kicks a$$!!


"You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting"
Spinning Backfist

Goldenmane
10-08-2001, 08:59 PM
Interesting stuff re: -

As I understand it, was not allowed to register as a church in Australia, but was forced to register as a business. :)

There is a well-known tale amongst Science Fiction fans regarding the founding of , regarding a $1 bet between three prominent SF authors (LRH, Sagan, and Frank Herbert, I think). Supposedly the bet was... the first to establish a religion based on bad SF won the buck.

-geoff

-A hundred enemies, a hundred cups of wine. Infinite enemies, infinite wine.-

NorthernMantis
10-08-2001, 10:47 PM
God rules!

"Always be ready"

"right, that's it!you've insulted me, and you've insulted the shaolin temple!"-Fish of Furry

Guandi
10-08-2001, 11:57 PM
>Scientology is illegal in Germany. Microsoft had to rewrite a section of a major package (win98 or Office 97 I forget) because a Scientologist was in the credits for the coding. Until MS did that, the software couldn't be sold in Germany.<

Both statements are simply wrong!

Guandi

Royal Dragon
10-09-2001, 01:14 AM
Satan Kicks asss!!!

But God still rules!!!!


Basically, in the grand sceme of things, Satan's assss kicking abilitys don't mean much.


"Chi is Chinese for Spinach"

Check out the Royal Dragon Web site

http://www.Royaldragon.4dw.com

Royal Dragon
10-09-2001, 01:15 AM
I always thought it would be fun to go Fuuck with Scientologists!!!

Borne again Christians Too!!!


"Chi is Chinese for Spinach"

Check out the Royal Dragon Web site

http://www.Royaldragon.4dw.com

Scott R. Brown
10-09-2001, 01:29 AM
Royal Dragon,

I used to think it was fun too over twenty years ago. With time I learned that I was only demonstrating my own ignorance and immaturity. I hope you and many of the others on this thread eventually gain enough wisdom to learn the same lesson and become more thoughtful and respectful of the spiritual path of others.

Sincerely,

Scott

Royal Dragon
10-09-2001, 01:44 AM
Yeah, your right of course. But to be honest with you I never did it because I really never get THAT board.

Besides, after I converted those Borne agains that kept comming to my door, I've been black listed by every quasi out there on the skirts of reality religion in the area.


They all fear me!!!

It' sad really.............


"Chi is Chinese for Spinach"

Check out the Royal Dragon Web site

http://www.Royaldragon.4dw.com

Scott R. Brown
10-09-2001, 02:54 AM
Royal Dragon,

That is good to know. Thank you for the response.

Sincerely,

Scott

omegapoint
10-09-2001, 04:55 AM
Just so you guys know, "Scientology", directly translates to mean "the science of science". What the hell is that suppose to mean? By the way L. Ron Hubbard was a Paranoid Schizophrenic, with megalomaniacal ideations. Didn't Scientology cure John Travolta of his ****sexuality? Friggin' RIDICULOUS! The world is full of independent evaluating/thinking geniuses. *******es, hahahahaha, God has got to be constantly cracking-up at us!

gfhegel21
10-09-2001, 05:12 AM
I do think we should be respectful of the spiritual journeys of others. In fact, people are free to believe whatever they wish. If your spiritual path requires that you believe the moon is made of cheese, it's not really any business of mine.

However, when these beliefs a promulgated by a powerful, wealthy institution which has a demonstrated history of wrongdoing, it is our responsibility to criticize the institution. Insofar as its beliefs are germane to the process by which the institution perpetuates itself and provide justification for its wrongdoing, I think we are also obligated to critize its belief system.

Additionally, when a "church" (Co$) attempts to put forth its set of beliefs as science, as in testable, falsifiable, predictive, and capable of providing persuasive knowledge of the natural realm, they are absolutely open to critique. Although the church has adopted the "church" mantle for tax purposes and to wrap itself in the freedom of religion and freedom of speech, if you press its believers at all they will tell you that its claims have been verified scientifically. So which is it? Science or religion?

Also, when an institution promulgates out and out lies, as scientology has done, (i.e., "clears" have absolute recall, Elron Hubbard was a war hero, etc.) I again feel we have the obligation to criticize and expose these lies whenever it is possible.

So, although I am respectful of an individual's spiritual path, I don't extend this respect to instances when more than just a single person's freedom is at stake, and we are never obligated to sit by while others proselytize and try to pass absolute bull**** off as truth.

Scott R. Brown
10-09-2001, 05:53 AM
gfhegel21,

Good points, read my earlier posts on this thread. I made similar comments.

Sincerely,

Scott

jun_erh
10-10-2001, 03:42 AM
I don't give a **** about scientology. Post that **** some where else, Bruce Leroy. :mad:

Black Jack
10-10-2001, 05:29 AM
I just wanted to point out that John Travolta healed my crab infestation with his amazing scientology healing powers.

The guy has some cold hands.

I wish I could come up with a religion and get rich and powerfull.

Believe it or not my dad did tell me about one of his cousins who in the 60's actually had a harem of women who lived with him in a single house, humped him silly, and treated him like a god.

Man that sounds sweeeeet.

I Black Jack, God of five minute quickies and watcher of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, call into order my own religion.

Homer Simpsontology.

Regards

cagey_vet
10-10-2001, 10:10 PM
they killed lisa mcpherson,
and many others through brainwashing
and auditing.
tom cruise and travolta cant leave the cult
because of what they admitted to during
their auditing sessions... this gets held
against you when you try to leave...
oh yea, i forgot about that contract you signed.
the million year contract.
you cant leave within a million years,
otherwise you will have to pay back everything...

hmm, l ron hubbard also instructs scientologists
NOT to discuss specific doctrine with anyone.
i believe this is called disconnecting.
you clam *******s, when you are ready to discuss
your theology with me then i will be more
likely to give you, as an individual, the benefit
of the doubt.

are you 'clear'?
do you have control over Mind, Energy, Space
and Time? if so, then you dont need martial arts.
you can just administer the 'Thetan Hand Slap'
to your attacker and be done with it.

if you dont know these things i talk about,
then you are in store for a weird life, my friend.
just wait til you get to OT8.

wait til you get to the part where l ron hubbard
says that jesus was a pedophile.
wait til you read that hubbard said he
was the antichrist.

those are his own quotes, are you
ready to directly discuss them?
we can take it elsewhere if you like.
but i highly doubt you will address any
of those statements.

you are sadly being misled.
get out before you end up giving everything
you have to cross 'the bridge'.

jun_erh
10-10-2001, 10:39 PM
I know a guy who has a harem like that with the same fringe benefits, he's a drug dealer. :(

Silumkid
10-11-2001, 02:58 AM
Glad to see I'm not the only one who knew about www.xenu.net! (http://www.xenu.net!) Talk about laughable...and before anyone decides to attack me, yes, I do have personal experience with Scientologists. The particular ones I met were scum, pure and simple.

I was recently informed that Falun Gong had very similar beliefs (i.e., superpowers granted at different "levels" much like a Dungeons and Dragons game). Their leader is known to have said that David Copperfield has real powers because of Falun Gong! Anyone have further info on this?

Religion is all well and good, until one person decides to organize it and use it for their own gains (power, money).

We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!