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extrajoseph
07-27-2001, 09:37 AM
Since CLF has so many schools, there bound to be rivalries between them, not only now but in the past as well. Here are couple of interesting stories about Tarm Sarm and Ngan Yiu-Ting. Please don’t ask me which one is more authentic. I don’t think it matters, what matters is healthy competitions will make us try harder without loosing the perspective that we are all part of a big family and since we are human, we will always compete with each other and have our own sense of history.


Bak Sing version (as told by the Lacey brothers)

“Tarm Sarm trained very hard and proved to be an outstanding student. After a few short years at the school, he was appointed to help instruct, and he taught many young students. They all addressed him as ‘Sarm Sook’ (third uncle).
All went well for Tarm Sarm until one day, while his Sifu Lui Chang was away, he had a confrontation with a senior classmate, Ngan Yui Ting, and two of his family members. They all happened to be his ‘Si-Sook’s’ (his Sifu’s fellow junior colleagues, or younger uncles), and Tarm Sarm subsequently beat up all three of them! After this, the incident was known as ‘Kuen Da Sarm Ngan’, or ‘Fist Defeated Three Ngan’s’!
When his Sifu, Lui Chang (Charn), returned and heard about this confrontation, he had no choice but to expel Tarm Sarm from the school. This expulsion was unfortunate, as Tarm Sarm had not yet completed his own training. Later on, however, he managed to learn the rest of the forms from his friend and colleague, Wong To.”


Hung Sing version (as told by Chan Yiu-Chi in his “History of Choy Lee Fut”)

“Tarm Sarm (Sarm) was a disciple of Lui Charn who was a student of Cheung Ah Yim. After Lui’s death, Sam often hang out with Lee Yen (his Siheng) and they became good friends.

Ngan Yiu-Ting (Ting) originally ran a school with Lee Yen (to continue the teaching passed down by their teacher Cheung Ah Yim). After Chan Koon-Bak (went to Kwangchow), Ting started to learn from him (and set up his own school).

Since Sarm and Lee Yen were good friends, Sarm thought highly of Lee but not so much of Koon-Bak and Ting.

One day, Sarm went to Ting’s school and said to Ting that since Koon-Bak’s “bridge hands” are so short (meaning he used small circle techniques), he must not have received the true teaching from his father, Chan heung. Ting asked, “If the eldest son did not received the true teaching, who did?” Sarm said, “Our school specialized in “large circles and long hands (long-range) techniques, that must be the true teaching.” Ting replied, “Even when an arrow is fired from a long distance, it is the last 2 inches that does the killing.” Sarm did not agree and they went on arguing until Sarm said, “Let us have a try to settle the difference.”

Without warning, he threw a fake left Charp Chui at Ting. As Ting used his right Pag Sou to block Sarm’s punch, Sarm dropped his fake left and kicked at Ting’s groin with his leg foot really hard. Ting quickly reacted with a twisted step and blocked Sarm kick upward with his left Lao Sou. He immediately charged forward while holding Sarm’s leg and threw him against the First Aid box.

Sarm had no answers to Ting’s Noi Lim Sou (small circle techniques), so he left the school without saying a word. When Koon Bak dropped by a few days later, he saw the broken medicine box and asked what happned. Ting told Koon Bak the story and they all had a good laugh together.”

Joseph

Ego_Extrodinaire
07-28-2001, 04:31 PM
Joseph

The stories look like promising material for the next kung fu flick which is gaining popularity in the West. In reality, it is true that Southern Kung fu styles are plagued with in fighting that resemble doestic squables. But over times a lore is built around these events and they become romantized. In contrast, Northern Kung fu developemnt occurred in a very violent time-period / location. All we know is that the practitoners fought alot and fought very well. In contrast, southern systems fought much more infrequently and with less intensity which led to a soap oprea type of historical account!

It's cool to be Egocentric,Egotistical, Egomaniacal but not Egophobic!

Maximus Maximize!

extrajoseph
07-29-2001, 12:08 AM
Ego,

I am not going to be drawn into this northern/southern, internal/external, shaolin/wudong, hard/soft, us and them bs. I am too long in the teeth to waste my time on this one.

Thank you very much!

Joseph

Ego_Extrodinaire
07-29-2001, 02:30 PM
Joseph,

I wish it were so bg a deal as to sort out the "life mysteries" as you so put it.

What I'm saying is that Southern Kung Fu history reads like a melodamatic soap opera.

Have you seen the movie Moulan Rough where evethng is over damatized for that theatrical effect. Same thing with Southern Kung Fu - lots of fantastc and funny sounding characters doing funky things to one another.

Why would anyone bother to learn Northern KungFu!


Maximus Maximize!
ego_maximus@hotmail.com

nospam
07-29-2001, 07:12 PM
Indeed, there are many 'stories' out there. What I find interesting is that usually all these great masters were rarely, if ever, defeated. That might be the case. It makes for great stories for a kwoon's students. Romanticize the great deeds of martial skills from days gone by.

There are several versions of Tam Sam vs Ku Yu Cheung. One, they had never fought, rather simply respecting each other and deciding to share students to share the exchange of knowledge from both styles. Two, Ku won the fight. Three, Tam won the fight.

For today's martial artist, doesn't really matter much besides for those who would rather jawbone about 'real gung fu' than actually doing it. Train hard, dedicate yourself to your studies and to your teacher...that is where 'real gung fu' will be found.

nospam.

Ego_Extrodinaire
07-30-2001, 03:05 PM
Nospam,

Careful with what you say, some Southern Kung Fu people might take that as an insult if you so much as disagree with the stories of their reveared Great Great Masters-el-Grande.

But what you say its true. There was once a story when two Dragon Kung Fu sifus were drinking. One shoved the other in a friendly way. A student saw this and whispered to the next, I saw sifu Sam push Sifu Moe. That student whispered to the next and the next and so on. Until the story finally got back to sifu Sam.

The student said "Mushtarrrr... awe....teach me the Drunken Dragon Does the Push move". They are all forgven, for being Chinese. (Chinese Whispers ... get it). Sorry it's early in the morning.


Maximus Maximize!
ego_maximus@hotmail.com

CannonFist
07-31-2001, 12:39 PM
Northern Kung Fu also has its share of melodamatic soap opera too. In fact I know more northern kung fu challenge matches stories than southern kung fu. One that I have heard that I thought was interesting was Yang Cheng Fu was defeated by a Jiran men (Natural school) boxer. As a result Wu Chien Chuan came out and defeated the jiranmen guy to safe face for taiji.

Northen or southern, stories from both divisions can be entertaining and interesting :)

Ego_Extrodinaire
08-01-2001, 03:53 PM
Cannonfist,

One thing is interesting though is that there are not often rematches, just one-off contest between two people. i don't have anything agaisnt that, but some people tend to use this a a benchmark for the effectiveness of the kung fu style. i don't think it's statistically significant.

i enjoy stories too, especially when made into movies with a big budget on special effects!


Maximus Maximize!
ego_maximus@hotmail.com

alecM
08-03-2001, 03:49 PM
Ego I come back from my summer holiday in Spain only to find you commenting on CLF yet again. Not only do you have no knowledge of CLF you have never studied CLF at all and you know even less about the Buk Sing branch so why don't you keep quiet and learn something

Fear not the man who has learned one thousand kicks, fear the man who has practiced one kick a thousand times.

Ego_Extrodinaire
08-04-2001, 04:21 PM
Almec.

I trust you had a good holiday in Spain. Not that you're back in the familiar surroundings of home, some things never change - Ego Maximus will be Ego extrodinaire!


Maximus Maximize!
ego_maximus@hotmail.com