Bruce Lee's meditation practice

[buddhistfist]

Anyone who has really read up on Bruce Lee knows he was not only a great martial artist but also worked on his spiritual side.My question is, does anyone know what type of meditation or chi gong he did?I have no facts that he did any but in my opinion a man who was as smart as him and did as much research as him probably would have taken up a meditation program.Anyone ever read anything about this or have any information on it? :confused:

[SSgungfu]

Bruce studied Buddhism, yoga, Taoism...even the Indian philosopher Krishnamurti.

I dont think Bruce elaborated on the technique of meditation he did. I'm guessing he practiced the 'standard' breath counting technique as in Buddhism and other traditions. This focuses the mind, and you can tell from looking at him that Bruce is one focused individual.

I believe his father taught him Taichi, and he also studied it later on in life. There are countless variations of chikung practices so it couldve been any one of those.

He couldve practiced Taoist Microsobic orbit to feel his chi flow, or he couldve practiced hatha yoga and transcedental meditation.

But why dont you practice Jeet kune do, and, instead of wondering what Bruce studied, find your own path of meditation and chikung that works best for you. Not that I dont wonder these things myself, I'm not saying anything negative here. Chikung practices usually reap the same benefits, same with meditation. It just depends which road you take to get to the castle...

[Repulsive Monkey]

All I know is that Taiji was his first art and (I forget her name but will find out) Female Taiji Master who was also a friend of his later claimed that when he was younger he didn't have the patience to practice internal arts much.

I would have to say that although you elaborate on his meditation and Qi Gong practice with little evidence, from seeing him in action in film footage and outside film footage I would have to say that it looks quite clear that he didn't continue his internal studies later on in life. Bruce seems to of excelled in his external arts quite a way ahead of his contemporaries but, Im sorry I totally feel that Bruce was NOT an internalist.

[SSgungfu]

As far as internal *martial arts*, no. He did not study Bagua or Taichi in depth by any means.

But Bruce did recognize that there are 2 sides to everything that makes one. He did realize, on top of doing external activities, that he needed to concentrate his mind, and also provide his brain candy. He had over 1,000 books, meditated frequently, etc. I believe Bruce took the "internal" approach by reading and contemplating, not repeating lifting the sky and iron palm techniques.

but how did he do the 1-inch punch? with his chi? body mechanics? that seemed to have internal qualities to it that alot of internal practioners wouldnt be able to do.

[Repulsive Monkey]

Bruce did the one inch punch with external force. He did not do it using internal methods as an internalist who do Im pretty sure of that from the footage I've seen of him doing it.
Im sorry but saying he had over 1000 books on meditation is hardly a qualification for making him an internalist. Dont you think thats a little naieve? Just because I have been avidly watching the CommonWealth athletics on TV everyday doesn't make me a CommonWealth class athelete does it?
Bruce Lee was an externalist fighter who read and studied philosophy, but counting the breath does not necessarily make one an internalist either. To of been an internalist practioner one would of expected him to of committed himself for many years to constant practice of that art. However the art he did committ himself to was not one of those.
Bruce Lee was a famous external martial artist behind and in front of the screen.

[churn-ging]

Anybody with descent wing chun training would be able to do the one inch punch like he did. Its all in the mechanics, structure, and rootedness of the body. Nothing to do with internal chi or internal principles.

[The Willow Sword]

as in the 1 inch punch IS INTERNAL. yes you can react physically and go through the motions of the strike but there IS INTERNAL WORK THERE.

we can assume that Bruce studied internal aspects when he was learning from Yip man and i think i can safely assume that he in fact did. but that aspect of bruce is not shared as much as his "external" methods.

bruce transcended the fixated rules with which martial arts is practiced. the level of attainment is the level at which one "forgets" what they have learned and sheds the boundaries of the fixed and just flows. there is an internal aspect to it. actually i take that back,,there isnt an internal aspect,,IT IS ALL INTERNAL. he simplified his teaching so that we "westerners" could understand the principles. to say that he wasnt internal or didnt focus on it much would be saying that a quarter back doesnt focus on his throwing arm or the reciever he is throwing to.
what i have always admired about bruce is his "Courage" to share the ultimate secret in martial arts. when you reach a level where forms are no longer necessary for you. when the boundaries of fixed positions and endless routines are risen above, you advance to a level where you are moving and doing forms out of the creation of your free mind.

the only think that i feel,in my opinion, where bruce went wrong ,,is that he attempted to teach this to people without the foundation of the fixed forms and the classical movements, for THATS what bruce learned in the beginning and was instrumental in his evolvement past those things.

Many respects,,The Willow Sword

[SSgungfu]

I agree. The 1-inch punch was purely body mechanics, being rooted, etc....but isnt that a part of every internal practice? Dont tell me that they dont teach that in every taichi and bagua class. Its not something you can aquire from lifting weights and practicing hard external methods.

In order to get proper root and body mechanics you have to relax and feel it out, very slowly, and it takes place internally, it is not a product of muscular maturity or external variables.

Finally, doing martial arts is both Internal and External, whatever style you do. There are many internal qualities in the 'hard' CMAs like wing chun and shaolin. Your body works in harmony with your mind, making it a unified practice. It is the division that the western mind puts on things to help you 'understand' these things that will confuse you in the long run. Yin and yang form to make one. Internal and external qualities of YOURSELF form to make the martial art you practice. We need to shed all the names of things and just practice with an open mind and determined concious, and the wisdom of this unified practice of body and mind will set in on its own.

I think in this thread we are just disputing the definition of pracitcing internal martial arts. But its still fun. :)

[Repulsive Monkey]

Comparing Bruce to someone like Cheng Man Ching in terms of internal, would clearly outline the fact that Bruce's idea of internal was very external. From the regimes we here about that Bruce put himself through I would say that its very obvious that he didn't develop his Qi and Jin's in the way that an internal martial artist does. In this respect Bruce certainly was NOT an internalist.
I know quite a few externalists who can quite easily do 1 inch punches and they do not train any internal whatsoever.

It seems the information we have left to us about Bruces ideas still seem (from a workout and conditioning point of view) that he didn't do much Qi cultivation at all. I mean he honed his muscularture in the way any externalist would, what does that tell us?
I just feel that he was a very good externalist.

[SSgungfu]

Agreed. If only he incorporated more internal practices more in depth, I wonder if that would change anything today.

[Repulsive Monkey]

I think it would of had a big effewct upon his art yes, but as many might say not that it needed it as Jeet Kune do has a big enough reputation today as it ever has.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

I often wonder.. if we put as much time and effort into merging the concepts of internal/external rather than seperating them.. how much better off would we be.. (oops, then what would we have to argue about).. After all, it's all just One thing, seperated by perspective and intention.. If Mr. Lee weren't superior in both aspects, this thread would not even exist..

To take a page from Mr. Lee's own philosophy, bring it ALL together, a seamless whole.. and, like a diamond, trim the excess to reveal the soul of the stone, the fire within..

Just a perspective from the Far-side.. Be well..

[SSgungfu]

Indeed. There is the conceptual division of external and internal, and there is also the merging of both to form YOU. Interesting stuff, it seems to make my mind behave like a dog chasing his tail, though.

[HuangKaiVun]

If a guy practices kung fu (let alone as much as Lee did), he's doing MOVING MEDITATION of the highest order.

or at that's at least what the Shaolin Monks say.

[Repulsive Monkey]

Aswell as being wrong, your comment doesn't really make any ceridible sense. All Kung-fu = moving meditation of the highest order does it? Where did you get that erroneous information from?
Bruce Lee's main focus was not developing the mind states that Lama's do via meditation, but to develop the external art that he created and his own understanding into where it may or may not lead him. I do not for a second think that his intent was say that of a Lama in developing refined mind states through meditation. If it was why didn't he give up Hollywood and join a monastery?

[Kristoffer]

Uhm guys.. He aint meditating, he's DEAD.

I'm sorry :D

[HuangKaiVun]

RepulsiveMonkey, your comment is typical of a novice who has never experienced REAL kung fu.

That "erroneous" information comes from Shi Yan Ming, who is a real Shaolin monk. He made that statement in his Kung Fu Magazine interview, though I don't have the words. His statement was that ALL movement can be used for meditative purposes. Dispute him and me if you wish.

Similarly, the Taoists have used the Single and Double Palm changes as moving meditation for centuries before Dong Hai Quan expanded them into the art of Baguazhang. So kung fu for meditative purposes is simply all too real, despite what you think.

Bruce Lee was very into Ch'an Buddhism. In fact, he even tried to sell Hollywood on it. His "Kung Fu" series features a Shaolin monk - and you have just learned above what role kung fu plays in Shaolin training. Also, his "Silent Flute" movie was an entire screenplay of the Buddhist concept - only that it eventually became acted out by David Carradine and was renamed "Circle of Iron".

In short, RepulsiveMonkey, you don't know anything about Bruce Lee or kung fu's meditative potential. You're the one who's utterly wrong.

[Repulsive Monkey]

your little diatribe has just highlighted you out as being a very fragile and sensitive person.
Lets not mix our words now! You said I quote " he's doing MOVING MEDITATION of the highest order." This you said is what Kung-fu is, ok? these are your words mind you! All I said was that compared to meditation that Lama's perform, it was NOT the highest form of meditation. OK those were my words. From this you have now magically deduced that
a) I have no experience of Kung-fu of any kind;
b) I have never heard or read anything about Bruce Lee;
c) I do not know anything about meditation;
d) that you somehow have all encompassing nsights into all my extensive years of experience in both fields of Internal Martial arts, external martial arts and meditation practice.

You most certainly are a cleverer amn than me, probably even cleverer than any Tibetan Lama for that matter too.!

Kung-fu as you put it is not the height of meditation, meditation is the height of meditation. Kung-fu has meditational aspects to it but doing Kung-fu alone will not bring you to enlightenment. If that is what the Shoalin monk is saying then it is he who is the novice, and you the dullard for believing him.

I practice Internal martial arts and have been for many years I know only too well the mental/spiritual benefits I get from it, but actually undiluted meditation alone from it is also required.

If Bruce Lee wanted enlightenment he would of given up fighting to try and acheive it. He didn't he wanted to expand as a fighter of the system he created. This is a simple known fact why can't you understand the legacy that he left behind and comprehend this fact?

[Repulsive Monkey]

why do people put Bruce Lee on such a high pedestal?? It's not like he was the best martial artist of our time or anything. He was good but he was known for his Fame in America whilst there were others who lived in almost ignomany who were superior to him.

[HuangKaiVun]

The reason many of us Chinese guys put Bruce Lee on a pedestal is because his presence and movies made it societally possible on a worldwide scale for a person of my color to be respected by a person of yours, Repulsive Monkey.

You are not American nor Chinese, so you do not and probably never will understand the implications of this.

As I said, your level of kung fu ignorance is readily apparent . The fact that you practice an internal style and think that Lama meditation is "higher" than kung fu moving meditation makes that obvious. I'll place more faith in the Shaolin monks' words and practice than yours anyday.

Moreover, you are one of those guys who separates internal and external. Clearly, the fact that you do so indicates that you understand NEITHER what "internal" or "external" are all about.

Nor do you understand what enlightenment is. You would not understand that enlightenment isn't simply "achieved" by meditative or kung fu means. You would not understand that the state of enlightenment is the acceptance of one's position in the world and living of one's life - something that Bruce Lee MASTERED. That's because you're too constrained by your prejudices and hierarchical rating scales.

In short, your closemindedness and arrogance indicate your level of skill most clearly. But hey, it's you who's got to live with it. And that's the worst punishment of all.

[Brad]

:rolleyes:

[curtis]

Repulsive Monkey
Let me start off by saying, that I never met the man (Bruce Lee) although I am a student of James DeMile, (one of Bruce Lee's original students.) And I can say only what I have been told as well as what I have seen. No one that I never seen in the M/A's has a skill even close to James DeMile's abilities (except perhaps Jesse Glover.)
Anyhow both Jesse and James DeMile have stayed that they could not hold candle to Bruce Lee abilities.
That leads me to believe that Bruce Lee Was all the people make him up to be, (the best martial artist of at least our lifetime.)
okay if that is not enough proof, try this.
Watch any of Bruce Lee's movies (the action scenes.) Now watch the same scenes in slow motion. (This can be done on most VCRs if you put your recorder and pause and then frame advance.) You can clearly see for yourself the grace and speed the man had. He even in slow motion moves gracefully, or one else looks as if they are in slow motion.
At least for me that proves something.

Now as far as meditation go's. I was taught that there are two different types of meditation. The first and the most common, is direct meditation (this type of meditation is generally what everyone does, that is when they think of meditation.)
In the other indirect meditation, (some call this positive suggestion, although I see it as a way to achieve a goal.) In this type of meditation you focus your energies (not some cosmic force) towards achieving your goals, by modifying or directing your subconscious mind you can achieve your goals much easier than the traditional methods. (An example would be changing personal bad habits.)
I hope this helps.
This is an interest topic.
Sincerely C.A.G.

[Repulsive Monkey]

I always find it most disspointing to respond to messages like yours. I thought at first we might have a seasoned debate but now you have proved me that it it is near impossible to do thid with your cooments you made. I find it most astonishing that that you have garnered so much personal information about me through esoteric means , for I did not give you any such info yet you are more than keen to tell me all sorts of stuff about me, and my understanding.
To say that the equivalence of a Tibetan Buddhists mediattion to that of a Kung-fu stylists is inferior shows quite obviously your lack of worldly experience in both fields. And to indicate that Bruce Lee reached spiritual enlightenment through doing Kung-fu is just plain humourus espcially as he himself in several interviews when broached upon the subject claims that he wasn't. So it would seem that your arguments do nothing but weaken your defence, and unfortunately it is done in a manner so devoid of credibility and foundation that I dare say it seems plain embarassing.
I have no idea of waht your acheviements are yet you claim to have primary understanding of what mine are. This again highlights a very ego based inferiority on which I sorry to say there is nothing that I can do to help you with.
I did enjoy your slamming comment about being constrained and my hierachcial scales when clearly there are no belts or such in internal arts and I'm not the one constraining myself by blindly ignoring someone's comments (i.e. mine) with a sense of objectivism with that of a solitary shaolin monk, now how closed minded is that!!!??
I think you have some difficulties with the concept of enlightenment as you seem to think you know what it means, surely this must mean that you yourself are enlightened too?? If this case I would dearly like to become your disciple!

Take care HuangKaiVun and may I suggest that you loosen your belt a bit and not overeact in such an over the top and imbalanced way? This is merely a debate not an argument, surely can tell the difference between the 2?

P.S. when you claim that I could not tell the difference bertween external I found particularly funny as I have many of experience in both. I have even more experience in meditation too but then I fear this too will fall on deaf ears, maybe?

[Repulsive Monkey]

thanks for your reply, I do rather feel that there is more than just 2 kinds of meditation though. Though I am not of a high level I myself practice daily at least 4 kinds.
About Bruce Lee, I do not doubt his skills that he presented to the world both on film and in classes, but it is true to say that there were more skilled martial artists around than Bruce Lee. This is not meant as an insult c'os if Bruce was the open minded thinker that I like to think he was Im sure he wouldn't of been egotistical enough to think he was number one, would he?

By the way if he did something elegant then it will reamin elegant fats or slow. However I take your point Curtis.

[Kristoffer]

I'm still laughing at my own joke :D

[chen zhen]

I'm not

[chen zhen]

:D :D No offence!