TKD vs. guy with no training [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

rogue

08-04-2002, 06:50 PM

Geeze, that kick dropped the TKD guy? Guess that's what happens when you spend more time kicking peeps who can't fight instead of working out against folks who like to hit back. :rolleyes:

he starts with a front hook kick, followed by a high side kick. I love people who start with a front hook kick without any setup, usually me just stepping in lands them on their butts. Maybe block the pivot foot if he's a jerk. The other good one is to let it pass and then give the kicking leg a little extra momentum to spin the guy around and then get his back.

If that black belt was my student I'd demote him and kick his butt out of the dojang.

rogue

08-04-2002, 07:00 PM

Ya know after reading some of the stuff on that forum I feel pretty good about this one. Where did all the great posters they had go?

Ryu

08-04-2002, 07:03 PM

ahem..... humm ..... ahem.....

*throat cleared* *Ryu continues on past the KFO posters...

rogue

08-04-2002, 07:18 PM

LOL Ryu :D

TaoBoy

08-04-2002, 08:11 PM

Now, that was well worth read.

Ego = sore balls.

LMAO! :D :D :D

KungFuGuy!

08-05-2002, 04:44 AM

Those pictures were the funniest thing I've seen since Devito's cameo in Goldmember.

Ford Prefect

08-05-2002, 06:35 AM

There was an article on cnn or msnbc last week about how a woman, tkd blackbeat in the Phillipines beat down an attacker who was trying to steal her purse. She beat the **** out of him with punches and kicks and restrained him for the police to arrive. There's good and bad with everything. I don't get this fascination everybody has with TKD.

Crimson Phoenix

08-05-2002, 07:02 AM

Dayum, I look so silly laughing all by myself in the lab now LOLOLOLOLOL

SifuAbel

08-05-2002, 08:02 AM

Luck shot......

He lucked out. It looks like he just lifted his foot out of reflex and took the credit for the "strategy". Yawn. I suppose if a boulder fell on him, the other guy would claim he set that up too.

Not that the TKD guy was so good, but that wasn't anything to brag about. :rolleyes:

apoweyn

08-05-2002, 10:46 AM

sifuabel,

as far as that kick, i wouldn't say it was planned, nor would i say it was plain luck. Basically it was an instinct, a reflex.
You had to have been there to see how it progressed to that beautiful nut shot. Sadly, he never got a good hit on me, and i only gave 2 kicks to end him (low kick to leg, and balls buster)
Mainly, he did the same type of kicks, which were not even penetrating at all, just "ricey" kicks that looked pretty.
Yeah, i wanted to bust his unprotected head, that ****y mofo.
But im happy with that last move. I think i made Bruce proud...
Not bad for a total street dude, eh?

he's not taking credit for it. he comes off as an immature prat, granted. but on that particular count, he seems to agree with you that it was more reflex than strategy.

stuart b.

The Willow Sword

08-05-2002, 10:51 AM

We SEE the futility of kicking high. when is everyone gonna learn? when they actually DO get thier pills smashed? oh well,,then so be it.

Many Respects,,The Willow Sword

TaoBoxer

08-05-2002, 12:55 PM

There was another recent article about a Philipino actor who shot and killed one attacker and slit the throat of a second after they had broken into his house. Crime just don't pay like it used to.....

SifuAbel

08-05-2002, 01:18 PM

"Mainly, he did the same type of kicks, which were not even penetrating at all, just "ricey" kicks that looked pretty."

Ap, thanks for the "let ya' know"

I'm assuming that last quote above is stateing the guy wasn't going for power. So I'm also assuming the other guy was just taking advantage of this and doing what he wanted. Thats rather cheap of him, IMO. What the heck does "ricey" mean? Is that an insult to asians? Thats what you get for being nice. If it were me I'd punch him in the face first and then plow him through the drywall. Only because I'm not as nice a guy.

The only things that were futile about the kick was the fact that it was telegraphed like heck, it had no power and it was predetermined he was going to kick him in the gut(not a high kick, really). If anything he's guilty of not setting himself up with a better delivery strategy and of course being nice.

neptunesfall

08-05-2002, 01:36 PM

from the story stated by this kid, they both knew they were in for a fight. hell, they set up a time and place for it.
he knew it was a fight - if he wasn't going for power with his kicks, that's his own fault.
i dunno wtf "ricey" means.

dezhen2001

08-05-2002, 01:48 PM

I too don't see what this fascination with TKD is :confused:
I've met and sparred/fought against many TKD ppl... many could kick my ass, others couldn't, it's all relative to the person and how well they are taught...

there are good and crappy ppl in every system... but that link was funny :D Lucky reflexive shot... I remember if i've been tapped there unexpectedly - it really does sting! :D

david

The Willow Sword

08-05-2002, 01:50 PM

i guess "Ricey" would denote the way "asians" kick

now would this apply to us americans? do we kick "steakey"or perhaps "hamburgery"?

:rolleyes:

KC Elbows

08-05-2002, 01:55 PM

I would've pulled something a little spammier than the ricey kicks. He'd be like "Is that pork?" and then SPAM, he'd be on the ground.

SifuAbel

08-05-2002, 02:49 PM

", nor would i say it was plain luck. "

Nope, its was luck.

Agreeing with dezhen, one guy duth not a style make.

In my case it would be more meaty, fishy, veggy, low fatty and carby. I'd still leave him a lump of scapple on the floor. Skinny basturd.

Agreeing with neptune, it is his own fault. It was stupid of him not to make it a little more real. Then again, the account could be as accurate as raleks.

rogue

08-05-2002, 08:29 PM

We SEE the futility of kicking high. when is everyone gonna learn? They're only futile if you can't do them and/or know when to do them.

as far as that kick, i wouldn't say it was planned, nor would i say it was plain luck. Basically it was an instinct, a reflex. I agree with Able that it was a lucky shot, but it still counts. I don't know about the TKD guy being nice part. I think the "ricey" kicks and the fact that TKDunce wasn't wearing a cup shows how often they spar in his school and maybe how hard, which is another reason why he probably sux.

But im happy with that last move. I think i made Bruce proud... Another Jeet Kune D0rk. Anybody want to tell him Bruce is dead? That is one funny JKD forum though.

SifuAbel

08-05-2002, 10:51 PM

Thats Abel

apoweyn

08-06-2002, 07:26 AM

SifuAbel,

I have to agree with you, except that the taekwondoka didn't sound like any less of a jackarse. so i don't know that it was a question of him being too nice. i think it's just as likely that he was just terribly ineffectual. look at them. they're very young. i think the taekwondoka had bought his own press and paid the price for it.

his use of the descriptive 'ricey' doesn't exactly endear the other guy to me either.

in short, i wouldn't have been heartbroken however it had played out. they both sound like they could use some sense knocked into them.

stuart b.

SifuAbel

08-06-2002, 01:06 PM

Thats..........oh, nevermind :D

I'm with ya'. I don't care about the TKD guy. Its more about the gradious bear posting his "victory". It's actually funny to see two punky kids "deciding the fate of the world". Like arnie is going to call him up for a movie deal or something. :rolleyes:

It would be the same for me to video everytime I found a 25 cents on the street. " Look at me, I found a quarter. It was reflex but not really luck either". Sheesh.

Shaolindynasty

08-06-2002, 07:29 PM

Wow funny how people can tell what was going on and who was more skilled just by a sequnce of 3 photos. We don't even know if they were fighting under certain rules (looks like points, they stopped after the hit). Or who "really won" for that matter.

Oh yeah pluss the JKD guys says "Idon't have training except for reading about JKD" I'm sure Bruce would have been proud:rolleyes:

I agree if the groin shot was probally luck. I know it still counts but it doesn't have anything to do with skill so why congradulate him about it.

Royal Dragon

08-06-2002, 08:25 PM

How do we know it wasn't skill??

If I palmed you in the head, was the fact that it would have been instinct change the fact that I am just skilled at hitting people in the head? I don't think so.

Besides, who knows what his real experiances are. I know guys who claim no fighting experiance yet I've seen them knock the daylights out of people that train. Years later i found out thier dad taught them some sort of Karate he learned in the service and had been training under his dad since he was little. His dad trained him to denie any knowledge of Karate because he was afraid of legal repercussions if his son ever used it in a fight.

Good, better, Me

08-07-2002, 04:34 AM

Oh c'mon, when you agree to spar with someone, what kind of idiot will kick someone to the balls! In real fight, a TKD guy wouldn't keep his/her hands just loose like that. Don't mock the art just because some idiot doesn't know how to spar.

ArrowFists

08-07-2002, 06:30 AM

Hmm, TKD gets abused a bit too much.

Despite my personal feelings regarding TKD (and similar arts) teaching self defense, I think it gets way more hell than its disciples deserve.

apoweyn

08-07-2002, 06:36 AM

SifuAbel,

The 'finding a quarter' analogy provided a good laugh. I needed that. :)

Stuart B.

SifuAbel

08-07-2002, 12:55 PM

:D :D :D

Shaolindynasty

08-07-2002, 02:31 PM

"How do we know it wasn't skill??"

We don't but given what he gave as a background he could have been lucky or cheating. He could've agreed to point fight and just decided to be a bad@ss and give the guy a nut shot.

"f I palmed you in the head, was the fact that it would have been instinct change the fact that I am just skilled at hitting people in the head? I don't think so."

You should train your techniques to be instinct. Yet given the background he gave I doubt he is a decent martial artist. He said his only training is "reading" about JKD. Trust me I know his type, hell I was him when I was younger.

SifuAbel

08-07-2002, 03:26 PM

:cool: The difference here is that a palm strike takes a bit of initiative. Reflex or not it is a deliberate blow. The luck kick this guy dealt was as deliberate as a squat f@rt. I've seen this a million times. A guy gets a nad shot because the other guys leg just happen to come up from him being pushed back. It was a total shot in the dark. If the other guy had the sense(obviously he didn't) to shoot the kick from another angle, we wouldn't be talking about this right now. :D

Neither of these guys would go very far in a more serious bout with an experienced fighter.

"Trust me I know his type, hell I was him when I was younger."

:rolleyes: No comment LOL!

NorthernMantis

08-07-2002, 04:08 PM

Hey I got an idea. Let's invite the kid in here so we can intellectually discuss things with him.

NorthernMantis

08-07-2002, 04:39 PM

Sadly, he never got a good hit on me

Hmm is it me or does the tkd guy has his side kick on his ribs although he is being hit in the groin. If it was someone with good power it could have fractured a rib or two.

These people and their ego these days:rolleyes: http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid27/pd46125f515c9a5276318c97ef2337383/fd724c04.jpg

rogue

08-07-2002, 05:07 PM

Good point, either TKDMan really sux or he pulled that one and did it as a push. Then again it could be the angle of the photo.

SifuAbel

08-07-2002, 07:23 PM

From the picture you can tell.........

1. The tkd guys legs were REALLY skinny.

2. By the angle of the toe you can tell the side kick was not bladed and he was more pushing the guy with the ball of his foot up under the arm.

3. The other guy only had the tip of his toe on the nad. He was still moving backward from the push. Luck shot. And yes, a more proper kick would have hurt him bad.

4. He mistakenly put his older brother's black belt on by mistake. :rolleyes:

Tae Li

08-07-2002, 10:11 PM

next person to make a smart remark about TKD is going to get MY foot up at their arse.

seriouslly, what ruins tkd or this image/stereotype that tkd is not a good martial art is usually the BIG BAD BOYS that train in it who think they are the greatest fighters and the northern and southern hemisphere. Ddont confuse stupidity and self infatuation with a GOOD and relatively EFFECTIVE martial art. Whats wrong with you people? being a martial artist is also about haveing an OPEN MIND, not just to fight but to think about all things in life.

Be fair and judge wisely according to experience and oractise, not word of mouth.

Tae Li;)

Tae Li

08-07-2002, 10:12 PM

p.s excuse the spelling errors.

Tae.

apoweyn

08-08-2002, 06:55 AM

amen, tae li.

The Willow Sword

08-08-2002, 07:21 AM

isnt the JKD guy wearing a "BLACK BELT"? now i know black belts do not mean much anymore but you would "THINK" that if one wears a black belt that one would have been in the system a while in order to attain this level of proficiancy that warrants a black belt ranking.

and we see clearly that the jkd guy throws a half assed side kick and gets tapped in the pills. ego or no ego the guy threw his kick lower and hit his target. the jkd guy throws a higher kick. and uhhh doesnt JKD teach not to kick that high? hmm am i missing something here?

call me crazy but i think that all this hype about bruce lees art has been seriously overrated. this *******ization of bruces art has turned jkd and other arts into a laughing stock. and why? cause everything i have seen of JKD denotes HOLLYWOOD flash and dash moves that serve no purpose except to entertain on the screen. what we see with bruces antics on the screen is NOT JKD. i would think that JKD in a truer sense of the word is more of a hsing i boxing style. very direct and to the point WITHOUT all the fancy mess. as we have seen in this picture of the "honorable black belt"jkd kid getting blitzed in the nads for being a peac0ck rather than a fighter.

Many respects,,The Willow Sword

apoweyn

08-08-2002, 07:59 AM

er, yes. you are missing something.

the TKD (taekwondo) guy is wearing a black belt. the JKD guy isn't. (and in point of fact, he apparently doesn't actually train in JKD anyway. he's just read the books.)

now i know black belts do not mean much anymore but you would "THINK" that if one wears a black belt that one would have been in the system a while in order to attain this level of proficiancy that warrants a black belt ranking.

no, i wouldn't think that. nor would anyone else who's come to the same realization you have. that black belts don't mean much anymore. i would think that the black belt should mean more than that. and at some schools, obviously, it does. but in this case, it didn't.

both of these guys were being ruled by their egos. i'm not even going to condemn that. we're all ruled by our egos. why else would we post here? out of pure and absolute benevolence? an altruistic drive to help our fellow man and woman? please.

if the JKD guy's story is to be believed, the TKD guy was a tool. not far fetched. i've seen plenty of young guys in martial arts go around acting as if they were the second coming. this JKD guy took it upon himself, according to the story, to put the TKD guy in his place. an understandable impulse, quite frankly. though the JKD guy comes off as not much better to my mind.

all said, it's a good thing for the JKD guy that the TKD guy wasn't smarter. that sidekick is clearly on target. if the kid had a better sense of range, timing, form, and so on, that might have been nasty. as is, some goof tapped another goof in the jumblies. end of story.

stuart b.

guohuen

08-08-2002, 08:45 AM

I was in the supermarket yesterday and one of the scandal rags in the checkout line had a picture of a baby and the headline read, Nine month old gets blackbelt. I guffawed until the cashier thought I was crazy.

apoweyn

08-08-2002, 08:53 AM

actually, that's true guohuen. i was there. the baby had to break three pieces of zwieback toast with his forehead to get the belt. it was outstanding.

but i still maintain that white gi pants on a baby was a logistical mistake.

stuart b.

rogue

08-08-2002, 09:30 AM

One of my wifes friends has two sons in TKD at a McKwan. One was a black belt (about 15) and the other a brown(about 12). So she says, "Well since you're just a blue belt that means my sons can beat you up, right?". She was serious.

I tried to explain how arbitrary belt ranks are between schools and that it takes about 4 to 5 years for us to move through 4 color belt ranks to black belt. The 15 year old got his BB in about 2 1/2 years and has a display case of about 8 or 9 colored belts(some with stripes), with his younger brother not far behind. At least the two boys are nice kids and don't seem deluded like their mom.

guohuen

08-08-2002, 09:33 AM

Mr Brown made a funny!

dezhen2001

08-08-2002, 10:33 AM

i still don't see what all the fuss is about... 2 guys mucked around (hardly a real fight), one got a poor kick/push in the ribs, the other got a big toe on his jewels... so? Stuff like that happens all the time in training - win some lose some... everyone does well sometimes or does crap, no matter what style.

I happen to know 1 TKD 2nd dan who would just like to kick my ass to prove how TKD can be used sparring ;) Could be fun :D

david

apoweyn

08-08-2002, 10:40 AM

one got a poor kick/push in the ribs, the other got a big toe on his jewels

i freaking love this synopsis, and i think it should become the KFO 'official' version of events.

well said, my friend.

stuart b.

dezhen2001

08-08-2002, 10:51 AM

LOL Thanks Apoweyn! :D

I've been in situations like that too many times with training, no big deal really. It was made out to be a big TKD/JKD grudge match or something but really was just a couple of teenagers mucking around... happens all the time :)

david

PS: getting a big toe like that DOES hurt though ;)

apoweyn

08-08-2002, 10:55 AM

yeah, maybe it does, but at least we got a good laugh out of it.

:)

Godzilla

08-08-2002, 11:02 AM

>>>Hmm is it me or does the tkd guy has his side kick on his ribs although he is being hit in the groin. If it was someone with good power it could have fractured a rib or two.

It looks like he is reaching with his toes. Must have been a tickle kick! Coochie, coochie - under the armpit.

Unfortunately, I was a member of a McDojo for several years and have seen these types of challenge matches. I have only seen the TKD instructor loose – and in one case get fired for fighting in front of the students.

These loosely thrown kicks are common and since there is no grabbing during TKD sparring, one becomes accustomed to using them as often as a jab.

You fight like you train. This could be the biggest problem with TKD. But I’m glad I studied it for the powerful kicks and discipline.

Godzilla

SifuAbel

08-08-2002, 02:58 PM

I had this happen at our miami school. An 11 year old black belt TKD joins our kung fu class. He was a nice kid, no ego to speak of. One day I put him to spar with a classmate. We don't do point sparring so right off I knew the kid would be in trouble. We do a 2 minute round, no stopping. We don't stop for points or even declare a winner.

Sure enough everytime he lifted his leg he would turn around and walk the other way. This didn't stop the other kid from continuing his attack. Once he got out of that habit, he would try to continue but found himself comeing up short. His mother was watching this and asked me the age and skill level of the other boy. I told her they were the same age and he had only 6 months with me. Then she asked why her son , a black belt, was being manhandled,er boyhandled, by the other kid. In a very PC way I had to explain that the rules we follow are very different and rank doesn't necessarily equate to proficiency.

The point here is that the boy came from a very tourney oriented school. He had been playing the tag game all the way to black belt. Mind you, I've met many TKD BB that kick but. But this boy is a product of the BB factory machine. He was never given any other challenge.