Alternative Wing Chun Drills

[black and blue]

Share and share alike. Below is a drill I use to work on body adjustment and structure to improve my Chi Sau with movement. If you guys (and girls) have any alternative drills... POST THEM, PLEASE! :)

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Pipe Dreams:

In my back garden (well, out of the house actually), I have this length of flexible plastic piping (about three foot long). If you touch it/push it, it wobbles all over the place.

Keep reading, this IS going somewhere! I place bong sau, fook sau or tan sau on the piping and then use stepping, turning and subtle angling. My aim is to be able to keep structure on the pipe without making it wobble, while I make my body adjustments.

This way I get to practise movement that will open up an attacking angle against my opponent without giving them too much indication (through contact with my bridge) of my intentions. Red5Angel: This is, for me, about precision, relaxation and positioning. Give it a go, fella.

I find this exercise really usefull. I also find it looks ridiculous... so if you practise it, do so when no one else is near.

*Note: This Wing Chun training drill is taken from Duncan's 'Wing Chun for Dummies'. The author accepts no responsibility for readers experiencing injury or public humiliation.*

[Fresh]

Sounds like fun. But there is already enough built into wing chun that I need to work on. If I could do the forms and chi sau and other regular things all day I'd still be wishing I had more time. While I'm doing alternative stuff it means I'm not doing regular stuff. When I get all the regular stuff perfect, then I might feel like getting more creative. But maybe by then I won't need extra stuff. :p

[black and blue]

But I find drills like this 'help' my regular training. Have pipe - will use it! I know that if someone attacks me with flexible plastic piping... their @ss is mine, oh yes.

It's not really a drill, but I bought some Blitz bag mits the other day - now I punch my dummy, the wall, H*ll, I even punch the postman if he gets too close. :)

Next step is to steal a camcorder and tape myself doing the forms (well, first form and first section of the second form).

[kj]

Originally posted by black and blue
Next step is to steal a camcorder and tape myself doing the forms (well, first form and first section of the second form).

I'm not ready to buy the pipe idea, and maintain some ambivalence about punching the mailman. ;) But this idea of the camcorder is tops.

We use one with some regularity, and it has proven to be one of the best investments I could have made in training equipment. Other than correction and feedback from an excellent teacher and good seniors, it's one of the best ways to analyze and diagnose our practice and performance.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[stuartm]

Hi B&B,

Your drill is not so off-the-wall mate ! Havent u seen the 'martial arm' and those dummys that are spring loaded. I think Hawkins Cheung used to use one ! There is also one in Dougla Wongs' 'The Deceptive Hands of Wing Chun' book.

If it works for you , it works !! . Imagination and experimentation are crucial in any martial art to discover what works and what doesnt.

Hers one I use: When teaching people to punch, we teach that the first should fire straight out of its own accord as if it had been pulled forward suddenly. The aim being that the student learns to punch without drawing back the hand/arm. As with all students some grasp it straight away, others simply cant. For the latter, tie a shoe lace around the students wrist, ask him to place his fist in on his centre as at the start of SLT, and ask him /her to completely relax. After allowing a few seconds to relax, yank the lace back so that the wrist drive s forward. OK - the punch may not be perfect at first, but they will understand the principle - which is what Wing Chun relies on. It is pretty to easy to master the shape of a fook or a bong, but understanding the principle behind it is a different story.

You can do another with the boot lace. When students begin SLT they draw back their Wu Sau using the hand or forearm (which usually collapses) rather than utilising the elbow energy. I was taught that when practising this section, you should imagine you are attempting to pull down a tree. So, leave the lace around the students arm and ask them to go into the Wu Sau position, and place some pullingtension on the lace. Ask them to try and pull you by merely collapsing the forearm back. Then again, but this time concentrating on the reverse elbow energy. They will not move you doing the former, but will doing the latter.

Again, like B&B says feel free to try it or laugh or whatever. If it works, it works! I practised this with two students last week when we were practising SLT, and you could see the light bulbs appearing above their heads afterwards.

If you try it let me know how it went - whether good or bad.

With best wishes, Stu

[black and blue]

KJ - Don't dis the pipe, and you really ought to try the punching of postal workers! :) You should post some mpegs of your recordings. It would be great to see your class' form work.

Stuart - The string and laces idea sounds funny, but effective. What I really need is a pulley system to keep my knees in! I fear your post borders on bondage... but I'm willing to pinch the idea and put it into my Dummies book :D

[kj]

Originally posted by black and blue
You should post some mpegs of your recordings. It would be great to see your class' form work.

Not a chance. It would be antithetical to intended use, and they'd never let me tape again. ;)

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[stuartm]

Hey B&B,

Where do you train and who with out of interest??

It is a funny drill but it works - honest! It also helps to embed the principle of 'lut sau, jic kuen' too.

What royalty percentage do i get from the book - LOL!;) ;)

[black and blue]

I train with Kamon (here I go again www.kamonwingchun.com). Sorry Admin.

Train twice a week in Sussex and once in Croydon (Kevin Chan's class). If you know anyone from our organisation, I'll drop the names of those that regularly drop me. :)

What do you get from my book? Your name at the back, fella... in small print... really small print. No one's stealing my thunder.

I have a 'Canadian History for Dummies', LOL. Wing Chun for Dummies will put my name in lights!!!!! I plan to have a seperate edition for each lineage, and each comes with a CD-ROM with me doing forms and some dancing (well, it's got to appeal to everyone. My Charlston has to be seen to be believed).

[S.Teebas]

Not a chance. It would be antithetical to intended use, and they'd never let me tape again.

Id like to see some chi-sau, or forms that form your school KJ. I havent seen any mpegs or movies from kens linage. Is there any way i can view some? (without jumping continents).
Thanks.

[kj]

S. Teebas, I'm not aware of any produced for public consumption yet. Certainly I'm not in that business, and plenty who can vouch for it, LOL.

Unfortunately, video is a p-poor medium for demonstrating the essence of our approach anyway, so even when there is one, it is doubtful viewers will benefit much.

Still, if you're really dying for one, there is a tape available, from Wing Lam if I remember correctly, of a Lily Lau tournament a few years ago. Among other things, it features some Wing Chun personalities, including Ken doing a rendition of the 2nd set. [I]I'm not sure[I], but I think the Wing Chun demos are on the 2nd tape of that set, and the tapes are sold individually.

I've heard from others that while the tapes aren't worth buying for the Wing Chun on them, that the other arts and demos add enough value to make it worthwhile. Again, I haven't seen them myself, so can't make a personal recommendation one way or the other.

I have also heard that Ken performed Chum Kiu for the demonstration somewhat differently from how we practice routinely, so I don't make any presumptions or promises about how representative it is or isn't on that tape. I don't know what the differences were or why. One theory is that because our routine practice isn't at all "showy" and can be darn boring to watch, so maybe he decided not to disappoint Lily Lau by virtue of a snoozing audience. I've heard it said that watching our first set, for example, is about as exciting as watching paint dry. :D Still, you could at least say you saw Ken on video, for whatever thats worth, LOL.

Not sure I remember where you're located - Australia maybe? Even if you don't travel to the U.S., there are some folks practicing and teaching in Hong Kong. In fact, there are some other very good Leung Sheung students there. If you ever get there you could see, and much more importantly, get the "feel" for it first hand. As you may know, Ken visits Tsui Sheung Tin with some regularity, so there's even a chance you might catch him in the neighborhood. That would be a far more insightful experience than a video tape could ever be.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[S.Teebas]

I've heard it said that watching our first set, for example, is about as exciting as watching paint dry.

That’s WC...well it sounds the most similar to what I’m practicing anyway (which is why I’m curious). Thanks for the info.
Besides I’m more impressed with the mechanical intelligence demonstrated, rather that a scary LOOKING man.

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by black and blue
Share and share alike. Below is a drill I use to work on body adjustment and structure to improve my Chi Sau with movement. If you guys (and girls) have any alternative drills... POST THEM, PLEASE! :)

Hi B&B,

Other than the sets, I don't think drills are a good idea, but what you describe might be fine with me because it's sort of "live" as the jong set is.

When I do drills, it is to work on a particular technique in which I want to improve, focusing on certain facets of the technique. I do not perform drills which presuppose a certain kind of attack. Wing Chun sensitivity allows us to adapt to our opponents with sufficient range of options that drilling would be counter productive in most preplanned set-ups.

You asked for alternative drills, but I think there is more benefit from practicing plain vanilla Wing Chun.

I practice turning and stepping with different hands. I do at least 300-1000 controlled "soft" punches on the wall bag daily. I practice the sets daily.

Partner drills I do include dan chi and lap sao in addition to chi sao variations.

On partner work, this is the most beneficial to my Wing Chun because it allows me to develop my sensitivity.

Regards,

[red5angel]

john, I am shocked! :eek: so it seems you are studying with some of the poeple you say you are!

I would have to say I agree, while different sorts of drills might make it more 'fun', they may not be necessary, remember my mantra, basics, basics, basics......and then some more basics!

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by black and blue
Share and share alike. Below is a drill I use to work on body adjustment and structure to improve my Chi Sau with movement. If you guys (and girls) have any alternative drills... POST THEM, PLEASE! :)

Hi again B&B,

Regarding my previous post on this thread, in addition to what I listed, if I had more time and an inexhaustable supply of training partners, I'd use it for chi sao.

For some inexplicible reason, most of my class seems to have left by midnight on class days, limiting my workout accordingly. :)

No need for creative drills, really.

Regards,

[kj]

Hi again S.


Originally posted by S.Teebas
That’s WC...well it sounds the most similar to what I’m practicing anyway (which is why I’m curious). Thanks for the info.
Besides I’m more impressed with the mechanical intelligence demonstrated, rather that a scary LOOKING man.

I understand. Superficially, at least, I think you'd find they "look" quite different in some ways. I believe the more important common ground will be found "under the hood" so to speak. That's one reason I think "feeling" would be most telling.

Here's to some day. :)

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Marshdrifter]

Originally posted by John Weiland
For some inexplicible reason, most of my class seems to have left by midnight on class days, limiting my workout accordingly. :)
Wow, John. Some of us would really like to be able to stay until midnight. If I stay around my class past 9:30 I just won't be
any good at work. In the winter, though, I can sometimes push
that back to 10. Never midnight though. Maybe when I retire or
become independently wealthy or something. :)


No need for creative drills, really.
Perhaps not, but I have one little thing I like to do to work on
sensitivity when I'm all alone. I try to be relaxed and focus on
the senstivity and structure needed when I have something
pushing force on me (doors, steering wheels, etc.). It helps feel
when someone is pushing too much one way or another. Also,
in class, people are usually (and hopefully) using Wing Chun
and thus use a different type of force than those generated on
hinges like doors. It's kind of interesting in a weird sort of way.

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by Marshdrifter

Wow, John. Some of us would really like to be able to stay until midnight. If I stay around my class past 9:30 I just won't be
any good at work. In the winter, though, I can sometimes push
that back to 10. Never midnight though. Maybe when I retire or
become independently wealthy or something. :)

Get your order in for CSCO before tomorrow's opening. :)

You're missing out on quality time. :) I stay late because there're particular seniors of mine who do, and I can get some of their time once the ladies have retired. :) Besides as I get older it takes me longer to warm up, but I never get tired of Wing Chun.


Perhaps not, but I have one little thing I like to do to work on
sensitivity when I'm all alone.
No need to feed me straight lines. :)


I try to be relaxed and focus on
the senstivity and structure needed when I have something
pushing force on me (doors, steering wheels, etc.). It helps feel
when someone is pushing too much one way or another. Also,
in class, people are usually (and hopefully) using Wing Chun
and thus use a different type of force than those generated on
hinges like doors. It's kind of interesting in a weird sort of way.
I like this. I've seen discussions of how people incorporate Wing Chun training into every little thing we do, but it's no substitute for training with a partner. Besides training draws me out of my propensity for shyness. Even my sifu tells me he also occasionally walks down the street looking for trees and poles to hit. We're always thinking about Wing Chun, it seems. :)

[yuanfen]

Quote-my sifu tells me he also occasionally walks down the street looking for trees and poles to hit. We're always thinking about Wing Chun, it seems.
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I know that he is not a racist- but could he please leave the trees alone?

[Mr Punch]

Find a crowded street in the rain.

I practise my centreline low kick footwork and quite often bong gerk or tan gerk whenever it rains in Tokyo. Japanese people are very polite, it's true: but there's a saying over here, that an insult or injury received during travel is to be expected. In the rain I have to be constantly aware of eye-level umbrella spokes and folded umbrellas being carried like miniature lances at knee, shin and groin level. My untelegraphed shadowless front kicks are coming on a treat, as is my leg sensitivity. Now, nobody even notices until they suddenly get the ghost of an impression that they might have been about to lose their balance... :cool:

Ride a crowded train on a bad line.

Subtle changes of ma (sinking, turning, absorbing etc) to gain space (when you have some ill-mannered, foul-breathed businessman pervert leaning against some lass, or elbowing everyone in sight), rendering your opponent completely lacking in structure and at your mercy, without actually being impolite! :cool:

Subtle changes of ma to create space for the primary school girls, the little old ladies n gents at the expense of said salariman. Subtle changes of ma to prevent you losing your structure on a jiggledy-jumpedy line. Subtle application of the now well-discussed last section of the third form to regain structure upon standing to exit the train, without hitting your head on the hand-rails, your eyes on the straps, your elbows on your neighbours heads/necks! Subtle application of huen bo to exit the train... :cool:

Subtle changes of footwork and structure to create that nice little vacuum effect when somebody tries to walk through you on the street, so they aren't aware that anything happened, but if you look round you can see them stagger/lose their balance when there was no contact...! Establishing and maintaining contact with your lower legs/hips when somebody tries to walk through you and guiding them round you without them being aware, whilst testing your own balance, and ensuring that should the need arose they'd be sat on their behinds without any direct attack or any form of violence... :cool:

Am I starting to sound like a psychopath...?! ;) The ways are myriad but as you know... these that can be spoken about are not the true ways... but they are **** fun!!!

Every season, every spirit, everywhere wing chun. (Actually, this is a trade mark of the Kirin Beer Company, and originally it said 'beer' but, hey, wing chun fits!!! :D )

Like the sound of the wibbly-wobbly pipe and the string... they sound fun too...!

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Quote-my sifu tells me he also occasionally walks down the street looking for trees and poles to hit. We're always thinking about Wing Chun, it seems.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know that he is not a racist- but could he please leave the trees alone?

Hi Yuanfen,

But the trees don't complain. The birch just lean a little more to the right, and the nuts mutter, "Wallah!"

Regards,

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by Mat

Am I starting to sound like a psychopath...?! ;) The ways are myriad but as you know... these that can be spoken about are not the true ways... but they are **** fun!!!

Every season, every spirit, everywhere wing chun. (Actually, this is a trade mark of the Kirin Beer Company, and originally it said 'beer' but, hey, wing chun fits!!! :D )

Like the sound of the wibbly-wobbly pipe and the string... they sound fun too...!
Hi Mat,

Great story and great ending. :D

Regards,

[black and blue]

Some great posts, cheers.

Sounds to me like most of you work on drills, even if you don't define them as such. As a bit of a beginner, most of the things I do are to work the basics... so I guess we're all arriving at the same point.

For me, as someone else said, I try to keep the drills and practise at home as 'live' as possible.

Was just interested to see how inventive people are when training at home (I don't take my beloved plastic pipe to class :D ).

Duncan

[kj]

You're in luck. Thanks to John Weiland for pointing out this AVI, courtesy of Dany M.

Ken hitting the wall bag (http://www.geocities.com/wc2002a/wc2002a.AVI)

Be sure you don't have the volume muted, LOL.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[S.Teebas]

Thanks kj. Much appreciated! :)

...but it doesnt work