New found respect for HKE from plumb position

[Ryu]

Many have heard me say I don't necessarily like the straight blast (although I think it very effective after a sucker punch, etc.) That's still the case, however I just finished up with some contact sparring with a friend of mine whose getting into the Bouncing business, and I've found out that my skill at headbutts, knees, and elbows has gotten a lot better mechanic wise, and strength wise.

I found that you can actually enter into the neck clinch position the same way you'd do it with a normal clinch. You don't necessarily have to straight blast, and can actually catch the opponent by surprise use the neck clinch as an "interception" itself.

Also, you've got to pull and push the opponent's head. You can't just hang on his neck or he'll punch you out. You've got to continue to make him lose balance, and come in with headbutts, knees to the groin, etc. Keeping your elbows close together, and constantly moving him makes it harder for him to clinch you at all or take you down.....however if he does get his arms around you switch into wrestling and judo clinch skills. :)

No real point to the post. Just that I have a little more confidence now in my HKE ability. I'll be training it lots more.... need a better stand up game anyway. :)


(:mad: and NO it's not because that MMA/bar story was about me!! :mad: :rolleyes: )

Ryu

[LEGEND]

RYU...so u're doing a RAT like approach???

[rogue]

and can actually catch the opponent by surprise use the neck clinch as an "interception" itself. Care to elaborate? I'm wondering if it's like the head controls we did in JJJ and that I've seen some Korean stylists do.


( and NO it's not because that MMA/bar story was about me!! ) Me thinks the Ryu protesteth too much!:D

Glad you're feeling better and putting the past behind you Ryu.

Wait till we find out that the WC guy on the train was really Old Jong.

[old jong]

Dear Rogue.I train in Wing Chun,not Wing Tsun and I don't ride in trains! ;) BTW,I hope Ryu's knee is getting better! :rolleyes:

[Chang Style Novice]

alright, I'll bite. What's HKE? And what's RAT?

[Merryprankster]

Using the collar tie is an effective interception because you use the fore-arm to block the shoulder movement necessary to drive the punch home. Once you have the collar tie, you use it to control distance and weight.

I like it too Ryu.

[rogue]

Dear Rogue.I train in Wing Chun,not Wing Tsun and I don't ride in trains! Wing Chun, Wing Tsun, Ving Tsun, what's in a name, it's all the same anyway.:p

What's a collar tie?

[SevenStar]

HKE - headbutts, knees and elbows?

"I found that you can actually enter into the neck clinch position the same way you'd do it with a normal clinch. You don't necessarily have to straight blast, and can actually catch the opponent by surprise use the neck clinch as an "interception" itself. "

definitely. you can plumb someone after parrying a punch, or you may even just reach in, as if you were throwing a punch. Once you have have the plumb established, press your elbows into your opponent and use your hands to press his chin into his chest. You're correct, jerk him around to keep him off balance, and pull him straight into you when you knee.

[old jong]

You are a pain in the ass but the place would'nt be the same without you!
;)

[Badger]

Don't you think it's a little counter productive to be training bouncers with your wild & rowdy barfight history???



Badger

[Ryu]

Hardy har har, Badger.

[old jong]

Ryu.
Why did you kick that poor TKD guy in the nuts?...I thought you where a ground and pounder! ;)

[Badger]

:D ;)

[Suntzu]

A MT guy showed when you grab around the neck put one of your elbow into his chest, like somewhere in the middle of his chest, it forcefully brings the head down and you have better control of him… it hurt like hell when he demonstrated on me, but I had little effect on him:rolleyes: ... but you guys prob already knew that about the elbow thing...

[Ryu]

Legend, Yeah I'm getting back into my RAT type standup, although I'm not using the blast ...... I'm hoping to train again with Paul in the near future, maybe he'll be upset? :D

Rogue, I think most have described the neck control.
But basically the head control I am using now is like Merry said. My elbows are tucked and pushing into his clavicle while I twist and jerk his head in the direction I want it to go (usually into a headbutt or elbow) Heabutting has always felt very natural and comfortable to me......however I've never had to smash a guy in the face with one in real life (except when he's wearing headgear)
It's easy to make a mistake and cut yourself too.... or worse.
But it makes a great first strike.....though it doesn't always take everyone "out of commission" ;)
Here's an example http://www.warriorcentral.com/images/headbutt.mov

The way to grab the neck is important too. You don't want to simply grab the back of his neck with your palms, and you don't want to intertwine your fingers either. The position I'm doing is with one hand pulling the head down and the other hand holding down my wrist. This position naturally lets me keep my elbows more close together, and gives me more leverage and strength to manipulate the head. You can also pull away and press the person's head backwards with your palm, etc. Dumog plays a part in this aspect of the neck clinch.

Hope that helps.

Ryu

[qeySuS]

hey whatsup Ryu? How long ago since you trained with Paul? There's a guy that lives at Chris Brennans school with me now that trains with paul every day, he says he's crazy (and judging from his stories he propably is :) But he sounds cool).

You know English James that trains with Paul and is on some of his tapes?

[rogue]

Ryu, with our head control we're aiming at taking him down to the ground rather than into a strike or knee. We also like to get a little ridge hand strike in to the base of the skull as we're wrapping, with a quick jerk forward and down at the lockup. Like you though elbows are in.