what is shuai shu?

[bamboo_cane]

I am looking for a good chinese martial artist to train from in the Libby Montana area. I found this article in the Local Libby Montana paper back in April... Does anyone know anything about Shuai Shu or Mr. Purviance? I found him on another forum but didn't want to say anything until I heard something from someone with experience..
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Libby Man has four black belts

Ross Purviance of Libby was promoted to seventh degree black master of the chinese martial art Shuai Shu during a ceremony in Sacramento, Caif on FEb 15, 2002.

Purviance, who has been practicing martial arts for 46 years now holds a total of four black belts. The other three are first degree black belt in shou shu karate, first degree black in judo, and first degree black in aikido. He recieved his first black belt 40 years ago.

Mr. Purviance now ranks third in all chinese martial arts in the United States. He will soon be traveling to Beijing with two other masters from the united states for a ten day martial arts masters conference.

Now retired, Purviance teaches seminars all over the united states but said he wants to devote his time to teaching Libby youth martial arts.

"I want to give the kids constructive to do; something to keep them off the streets"

Mr. Purviance and his wife Deirdre, also a Shuai shu instructor, have lived in Libby for two years.
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I would appreciate any opinions anyone has...

~the new guy

[Water Dragon]

Shuai Chiao maybe? If so, who did he train with? The Shuai Chiao community is rather small, and the good players are pretty much known.

[Chang Style Novice]

sounds like it might mean "Throw Art", but that's the best I can do.

[SevenStar]

This came off of a shou shu forum:

"As a teenager I studied Northern Shaolin/Praying mantis. Almost made it to black belt before moving to CA. Later I studied Aikido. I have also studied White Crane among other schools. In my personal experience, they were a waste of time. Never did we discuss fighting and not until Shou shu did I know how to fight. I can honestly say that my first four private lessons of shou shu taught me much more than all those other years of training, and that says quite a bit. I'm not knocking other styles, but in my experience shou shu is it. I was never comfortable before using my hands. With training in shou shu I feel ready for anything. Shou shu has so many facets and tools I can deal with any situation. I have the choice to not hurt my opponent, lock him up, throw him, or blast him into next week. The thing is because of the training, I have the ability to do what the situation calls for. I do what suits me, and am not limited in any way. "

I wonder if shuai shu is suppsed to be a blend of shuai chiao and shou shu?

[SevenStar]

you refer to shou shu as karate, but it sounds like more of a chinese name. also, on the shou shu forum, they use terms like sifu and da sifu. I'm thinking the guy mixed a couple of styles to make his shuai shu. until today though, I'd never heard of either style.

[SevenStar]

OK, let me just clarify what Mr. Frolkey and Mr. Taunton are saying here.

First off, Shou Shu is Kung Fu, not a sister art to it. However you must understand what the words Kung Fu mean.

As cultures collide words from other languages are often mistranslated. Such as when Settlers moved into Australia. Upon seeing a kangaroo a settler asked an aborigine what it was. The aborigine answered, "I don't Know". In aborigine, kangaroo means I don't know. Now in english kangaroo is descriptive of a large hopping animal that carries it's young in it's pouch.

Same thing happened in China. Some visitor from the West saw a martial artist practicing his forms. He asked a local what it was that he was doing and the local replied "Ah, he is very good".

Kung Fu in chinese means -a high level of skill

In English we have taken it to mean "Chinese martial art". Funny how things like that happen.

So is Shou' Shu' kung fu? By the English interpretation of Kung Fu, certainly.


Clarifying what Mr. Frolkey has said id a bit more difficult. Unless you've been studying Shou Shu for quite some time this is very difficult to fully understand.

Shou Shu is fully a principle art. When Da' Shifu learned it, from what I understand, he learned one weapon at a time. He was given a motion, taught how to use it, and he was expected to develop it by the next lesson. If he hadn't he was disciplined.

Each motion taught was pure. Learning the motions of each of the animals in pure form, one motion at a time. Each motion fully developed before moving on to the next.

Eventually the motions were to be put together into progressive motions.

In this manner the motions of all of the beasts were taught. One at a time. When all of the beasts were taught then the student was taught how to combine them. Switching from beast to beast or doing several at once. Only at this time could it be called Shou' Shu'. Shou' Shu' means "fighting way of the beasts" and it can only rightfully be called Shou' Shu' if it has all seven.

Da' Shifu, when he began teaching tried to teach in the same manner that he was taught. Very few stayed. It required an extreme amount of discipline and practice to learn in that manner. Definetely, this manner of teaching could only be used to teach a certain select few. This, of course, explains why only a few had mastered the art.

Back in those days there weren't a whole lot of martial artists around in the United States. Those that were here got together a lot and compared some of the things that they knew. Da' Shifu befriended Ed Parker, grand master of Kenpo. Kenpo, like Shou' Shu', is a progressive art. It's weapons were continuous. It was taught through technique. It is my experience that kenpo is purely a technique art. Students are taught that the techniques will be executed as taught on the street. I am not close enough to Kenpo to know this for sure, but from what I have seen personally that is what is taught.

Da' Shifu liked the idea of teaching through technique. It was easier for the student to understand what was going on.

It however does have it's pitfalls. The student can get too wrapped up in technique and not see the principles. Not enough attention to developing individual weapons. Not understanding that technique is only the beginning. Technique is merely a teaching tool in Shou' Shu'. This however is another story For me to write one day.

So, at first, Da' Shifu borrowed some of the Kenpo techniques. He aplied Shou' Shu' motion to them and used them to teach the art. This turned out to be a great combination. It was much easier to understand the teachings.

When he did this, he also made another change. In using the techniques to teach Shou' Shu', some beasts worked better in different places. So instead of using pure beasts he used a combination and put them into the techniques where they fit. Some beasts are better at given certain things. In doing this he reversed the teaching order of the art.

Originally the beasts would be learned individually and then when they were all mastered they would be combined. In the techniques, they are taught combined and then they are seperated again after black belt only to be recombined again at Da' Shifu.

So, I'm sure you can see where the claims come from that Shou Shu is an offshoot of Kenpo. If you watch the arts you will be able to see that thgey are very different.

I hope this helps to clear up a very old misunderstanding.


SSW

[SevenStar]

"Anyway, no Shou' Shu' did not evolve from Shaolin or Wudang. It evolved alongside them. Originally from the same root.

In Chinese history there was a battle fought between the Mandarin Warlords and the Shaolin monks. The Shaolin monks were mercenaries, a little known fact. The Mandarins were outnumbered over ten to one but came out victorious. I'll have to get out my history books to remember the name of the war."

[MonkeySlap Too]

Whatever it is, it's not Shuai Chiao. Nor am I sure that it is an actual 'cma' style. Too many flags going up in that article.

That 'use your hands' line is a common american kenpo phrase. Especially by the ones that consider themselves 'Chinese' styles.

[SevenStar]

ROFL!!!!

"Shun Shifu, over the years I've heard about an incounter between Dasha Fu and Bruce Lee....My understanding is that they met when Dasha Fu was talking with a friend and they where introduced. At which point Bruce lee attempted one of his (lightning fast) eye flicks. Dasha Fu being faster than the speed of lighting! snatched it out of the air and promptly threw Mr. Lee into a wall. This was what I heard..... any comments? "


"Yes, that is true. Except for the fact that this was not their first meeting. Ed parker and Da' Shifu both had a lot to do with Bruce Lee getting into Hollywood. When the Hollywood producers came around they were looking for someone who would look good on film. Flashy, Chinese but not to Chinese. They reccomended Bruce Lee. "

[SevenStar]

"The story says that Bruce Lee was actually poisoned by the Tong. They didn't like his ****y attitude and thought that his portrayal of martial artists was damaging.

It is strange that on his visits to China he had to have fully armed body guards he was hated so much.

He was given an herb which stops the bloods ability to clot and thins the blood. Causing severe internal bleeding. I've heard that the bleeding was so bad before he died that it was coming out his pores. A herbalist was consulted and upon seeing Lee he told the doctors what was wrong. They asked what the cure was. He said "none" and walked away.

According to the story, this herb was given to him in hie tea, by his mistress. She was forced to do it by the Tong.

Not the popular story portrayed by the movies I know. It's the one I heard and it makes more sense than some strange unknown edema or something. Who knows. "

[ewallace]

Attn Sevenstar:

Now, I am known to talk to myself here and there. Writing code all day I tend to let myself know when I have made a careless error.

But dude it appears that you may be carrying on a full-blown conversation with yourself here. :)

[SevenStar]

This ish is too funny!!

"I agree that Shou Shu is the most effective and complete martial art in existence! I recently watched a sanctioned karate world tournament and I thought it was weak! It looked really cool and all, but the practioners didn't seem to understand the way their bodies should move in order to convey more power and speed. Also, I see a lot of moves from other martial arts that start with a windup of the weapon being used (arm or leg), which would give a competent shou shu practioner the opportunity to strike before the other person. Pay attention to your instructors and train hard, and you will develop into a skilled shou shu practioner! Goals that seemed unreachable years ago will suddenly be happening to you!"

"I recently watched a fighting competition on tv called *** were they fight in an octagon. I saw these guys laying on the floor most of the fight, they cant eye gouge hit in the groin or hit in deadly spots as shou shu practioners do. I realized what would these guys do if they were mass attacked, in a street fight we use all our weapons and our ready for 3 too 4 guys at the same time. Its an honor too have the knowledge of shou shu. theres nothing else like our art."

[SevenStar]

aw, shyt....


"In responce to the *** fighting,I think someone with a high rank in Shou Shu could take any of those guys out. It would be hard for someone trained in Shou Shu to actually fight in a compitition, we would be disqualified after our opponite made their first move. I don't think breaking a arm is legal when someone throws a puch at you in sport fighting. Thats why I could not fight in compititions once I hit a certain rank. It becomes a natural reflex."

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by ewallace
Attn Sevenstar:

Now, I am known to talk to myself here and there. Writing code all day I tend to let myself know when I have made a careless error.

But dude it appears that you may be carrying on a full-blown conversation with yourself here. :)


LOL!! Welcome to the world of an only child :D

[SevenStar]

there was supposedly an exhibition between some guys from one of these schools and some of cung le's guys - one of them had this to say:

"Wow its amazing how some people love to be publicly humiliated.Id buy a ticket just to get a good laugh.A little comic relief is in order.MOORE'S KICKS BUTT!!!!!HOOAHH!!! "

[SevenStar]

read this, then watch the fight

"My drunken boxing match

If you want to see me in a fightclub where the boxers have to get drunk to fight, then cut and paste this website.

http://www.drunkenmatch.com/drunken35.php

This match was a blast for me!! the big guy I fought is my friend, so there was nothing but respect and good sportsmanship. They made me do 2 doubleshots of 101 proof whiskey and wash it down with 5 beers before the match. My kind of fun!! I even managed to pull off a couple Shou Shu moves, watch for the outward extended block against a right hook, and the body shots that made him puke.
This was the toughest guy I've ever fought, no matter how hard I hit his jaw he would not drop. Hard reverse punch to the chin and he just shook it off. We will have a rematch soon.

Don't forget to vote for the winner(me)."

[bamboo_cane]

Well it looks phony after all, the forum this guy posts on regularly just called him on it and looks like they exposed him... There are a lot of phony "masters" out there able to make a buck. I really blows my mind that these guys can get away with it.

[MonkeySlap Too]

What forum is that?

[bamboo_cane]

mooresshoushu.com/board (http://mooresshoushu.com/board)

[MonkeySlap Too]

Where on the forum? I couldn't find it.

[Former castleva]

Some of the quotes shown are actually giving you the idea that this shou shu would be somehow superior art (in combat etc.)
Once it was dog boxing (referring to website) Today when I was checking trough American kenpo site,it was kenpo karate...
But I guess that is allowed in a way.
You can create your own form of dog biscuits and sell them out with sentences like "best dog biscuits on the world" but you can´t say "they are better than x"
Funny.

[bamboo_cane]

in the general area at the end of "Native American Arts" and I think the response from purfiance or something was the other sectin.

[bamboo_cane]

I never thought about that dog biscuts thing but that is SO TRUE... so you can claim to be anything and say you are "the best" and it doesn't really matter so long as you don't down play anyone else. under that guise you "out of respect for other arts" you can claim the world and ackknoledge nothing... anyway, I heard the moore family studied under tracy brothers so who knows..... It is becoming harder to tell who is real and who is trying to make a buck..

[neptunesfall]

here's the actual thread
http://mooresshoushu.com/board/viewthread.phtml?FID=1&TID=183
here's the response to the end of the native american thread
http://mooresshoushu.com/board/viewthread.phtml?FID=1&TID=192

[Former castleva]

bamboocane,
Exactly.It´s completely legal.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by bamboo_cane
I never thought about that dog biscuts thing but that is SO TRUE... so you can claim to be anything and say you are "the best" and it doesn't really matter so long as you don't down play anyone else. under that guise you "out of respect for other arts" you can claim the world and ackknoledge nothing... anyway, I heard the moore family studied under tracy brothers so who knows..... It is becoming harder to tell who is real and who is trying to make a buck..

...or they're extremely misled. In some of those threads, they make the claims that they are too deadly to compete, they are the best, etc. I posted this earlier in the thread, when I was talking to myself:

"In responce to the *** fighting,I think someone with a high rank in Shou Shu could take any of those guys out. It would be hard for someone trained in Shou Shu to actually fight in a compitition, we would be disqualified after our opponite made their first move. I don't think breaking a arm is legal when someone throws a puch at you in sport fighting. Thats why I could not fight in compititions once I hit a certain rank. It becomes a natural reflex."