CLF - very interesting from Sifu Lacey's site

[firepalm]

Myself personally I prefer not to get into this CLF lineage dispute, for the most part I think its rather silly, however I found this pic on Sifu Lacey's site very interesting http://www.pantherfist.com/catout.html

In the CLF school where I trained as a youngster there were three pictures; Chan Heung, Chan Koon Pak & Chan Yiu Chi. I always thought it odd that Chan Heung & Chan Koon Pak were positioned at exactly the same angle. Sifu Lacey's assertion makes sense as the image of Chan Heung is said to produced by Li Yiu Ling who was also known for his abilities as an artist / calligrapher.

[extrajoseph]

You seem to know Sifu Lee Yiu-Ling, do you know he is still alive and living in Sydney Australia? He is definitely not the painter. How do I know? I actually asked him once while I was living in Hong Kong and he knew a lot about the history of CLF.

If you want to see the original charcoal drawing kept by the Chan family, then go to the following webpage. One would expect the son to look a little like the father and three quarter face was the most acepted angle for a formal protraiture in the olden days.

http://www.clfma.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=73&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

If I were you, I would take what Dave Lacey says with a grain of salt. In an attempt to change the history of CLF, he tries very hard to discredit the Chan family. Fortunately, the other side is not biting, while we all got hot under the collar......

JosephX

[alecM]

I don’t think the pictures prove anything, in my families photo album there are three separate is a photos of my grand father my father and me from when each of us were children.
Because of the strong likeness between the three of us and even my half brother, most people make the mistake when they see the three photos together and assume its the same child playing dressing up in old cloths in all three of the photos. The only way you can tell who’s in the picture is by the cloths; my grand father is wearing Victorian cloths, my father is wearing early 20th century cloths (1920’s) and I am wearing kids clothing from the mid 1960’s.
So as Joseph has said one would expect the son to look a little like the father

[Fu-Pow]

Actually, even if it is true that the painting is a fake, all I understand this to mean is that the painting is a fake.

Very Zen when you think about it.

[Cody]

I understand what you mean. Yet, being personally removed in time and relations from a painted or photographed image makes a difference. True? However, if and when deception occurs, there is a breach of trust; so, it's nice to know if what we see, hear, and are led to believe (by Anyone) is intentionally truthful or the result of bulls lifting their tails.

Cody

[fgxpanzerz]

"If you want to see the original charcoal drawing kept by the Chan family, then go to the following webpage. ] One would expect the son to look a little like the father and three quarter face was the most acepted angle for a formal protraiture in the olden days"

You can't make this assumption for everyone. I know people who don't look anything like their father or mother.

[extrajoseph]

The words I used - "one would expect" - means it is only an expectation. Of course some children don't look anything like their parents.

In Chan Heung's case, if we look at photos of his 3 children, they have similar features to each other and people in the family said they all looked like their father, so I was told.

In my case also, if I put on my father's glasses, people often thought I am my father. But life is full of surprises, so I used the words "one would expect".

As for the photo used by Sifu Dave Lacey, I can not find out its author, may be some else out there can tell us. Sifu Lee Yiu Ling only has an oil painting done by one of his students who studied painting in Paris, he said it was based on a drawing kept by his techer Chan yiu-Chi.

You know the thing about CLF is it is not like the Wong Fei-Hung's case as compared by Dave Lacey. The tradition and the lineage are very much alive. There are documents and there are living people who can varify the stories we tell. If someone said so and so happened in CLF, it happened less than 260 years ago and we should check them out before we take them as the gospel truth.

But people think seeking the truth is being disrespectful and lack of Mo Dak, well that is only their expectation, not mine. Because of that I get to be called many things, all I can say is "a thousand sentences do not make one word of truth".

So don't take my words for it either, go and ask Lee Yiu Ling if you think the drawing was faked by him and ask Chan Wing Fat if you don't think Chan Koon Pak look like his father. They are still alive today and they should know.

[fgxpanzerz]

I wasnt disputing yor claims or information. I was just saying that a child doesnt have to look like her parent.

[extrajoseph]

I think we are agreeing with each other and that is a child does not have to look like his or her parent, although we may have an expectation that it would most likely be the case.

This brings up an interesting point in Dave Lacey’s argument about Choy Fook’s age. In his article, he has argued that the history of CLF as told by the Chan family must be false because one would not expect a person like Choy Fook could have lived to an age of 120, let alone teaching Kung Fu at 90.

But if we ask a biologist, us mammals in theory should live up to 5 or 6 times of our age of growth. The sign of us stopping to grow is when our wisdom teeth finish growing at about 20 – 25 years of age, so that would mean, in theory any way, we should be able to live to an average age of 100 – 120 years old. We don’t do this because of our life style but that does not mean it is not possible, if we take care of our health and life style in a different environment.

So it is quite possible that what Chan Yiu Chi wrote about his Grandfather could also be true, even though we might expect Choy Fook not to have lived to 120. The other possibilty, of course, is that the Chinese tend to exagerate their age and that does not mean Chan Yiu Chi is not telling the truth.

On the other hand, we would expect that the Chan Family would know more about their family history than Dave Lacey, but then again, it is only an expectation on our part. It may not be true that all families know their history well and may be Dave Lacey knows more than Chan Yiu Chi in this case.

We have to make these judgements for ourselves after looking at all the facts and arguments. I would say this is the way to respect each other’s history.

JosephX

[firepalm]

No I don't know Lee Yiu Ling personally, was aware that he migrated to Australia but not sure if he is still alive. Only know of him via other CLF sifu & the CLF & New Martial Hero publications of the seventies. I have had the pleasure of meeting several of those older generation masters (Law Kay, Chan Yiu Wun, etc...) of that era but unfortunately not Lee Yiu Ling.

Regarding the picture of Chan Heung of course it proves nothing even if the image is a fake, I simply found it very interesting from my perspective of remembering how similar the images were in terms of the angle of the faces. If you look at what Lacey has on his site objectively it is interesting the photos lay over on another exactly and the eyes, nose & mouth are not only the same angle but the exact same dimension. Having read & heard that Lee Yiu Ling was an artist and per Lacey's comments associated with the image I thought it made sense that he may have done it himself. Honestly it's not that important just provides food for thought!

:cool:

[extrajoseph]

Hi Fiepalm,

My father was in the older masters group you mentioned, so I know them well. Lee Yiu Ling is my Sisuk and he is quite a character but I don’t think he can draw well.

The photo in question was probably done in the late 60s and early 70s by someone in Hong Kong knowing there is a drawing around somewhere because the Chan family apart from Chan Kit Fong was still in Canton and communication between Hong Kong and the mainland was very difficult especially during the Cultural Revolution.

Dave Lacey accused the Chan Family to have produced the fake and that is not true because they have a much older drawing of their ancestor already. He also accused the Chan family being secretive and that is not true either, it was just that they couldn’t communicate with the rest of the world at the time.

Dave Lacey also accused me and Fu Pow being foot soldiers for the Chan family and that is again not true. I don’t speak for the Chan family and we are not the Trojan horse used by them to attack Futsan Hung Sing and Jeong Yim. Just because my lineage can be traced back to Chan Yiu Chi does not mean I am a running dog for the family.

The whole firework started when I first asked the question, “when was the GGM first mentioned?” I asked that question because when I first started to train in CLF I have never heard of his name but I do know Jeong Yim was a great CLF master and as far as I know no one tried to put him down in my circle of acquaintance. So I don’t know what Dave Lacey is on about apart from me coming to some conclusions that contradicted his points of view and I had some run ins with his supporters. For some reasons he has a bee in his bonnet about the Chan family and especially Chan Wing Fat, but that is his business.

So let us forget about his web address and move on.


;)

[Arhat of Fury]

There you go again Joseph, putting words into other peoples mouth!

Who is your father?

[SETANSI]

"FORGET ABLOUT HIS WEB SITE AND MOVE ON"
EXTRA JOFISH,

WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO HYJACK THIS THREAD? THE FIRST POST WAS IN REFRENCE TO WWW.PANTHERFIST.COM, SOMTHING INTERESTING FROM SIFU LACEYS SIGHT.

ALSO SIFU LACEY NEVER SAYS SIFU LEE YIU LING PAINTED THE FAKE PICTURE OF CHAN HEUNG HE SAY HE PRODUCED IT. MEANING HE PRESENTED IT TO THE KUNG FU COMUNITY,"I HAVE THIS PAINTING WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE IT?" WHEN NO ONE NEW OF IT'S EXISTANCE PRIOR TO THIS. SO SIFU LACEY NEVER SAID LEE YIU LING WAS THE ARTIST.
FURTHER MORE THE" FIREWORKS STARTED WHEN I FIRST ASKED THE QUESTION ""WHEN WAS THE GGM 1ST MENTIONED?""!! I KNOW THERE ARE SEVRAL HUNDRED PAGES TO GO OVER BUT I SUGGEST YOU READ THEM OBJECTIVLEY FROM THE BEGINGING.

YOU HIDE OUT IN CHNA FOR A MONTH AND IT WAS SO PEACFUL IN THE SOUTHERN FIST FORUM WHY DID YOU COME BACK. TO START THIS 5H!T AGAIN

[Fu-Pow]

Mu.:rolleyes:

[SETANSI]

AH!!
THE OTHER RUNNING DOG SPEAKS
AND I THOUGHT COWS SAID MU

PS FU POW I AM IGNORING YOU

[Fu-Pow]

No, you didn't listen to what I said.

Mu.:D

[extrajoseph]

Here we go again!

What Dave Lacey produced was a drawing and what Lee Yiu Ling showed in Hong Kong was an oil painting by one of his students. If produced is the same as showed then I guess a drawing is the same as an oil painting.

The net is full of noise and some people who don't listen, think a dog can moo and a cow can bark. This forum sure is an interesting place.

:rolleyes:

[k-no]

Joseph joseph joseph...and you started all respectful in the beginning of the thread too. I guess one can't hope for too much.

SETANSI...relax man. I understand your anger. Let's just calm down and go to the "tea house" in SF and have some tea. You know which one. ;)

I know it's hard to just let some people ramble on....but as for the cows on the thread, they seem pretty harmless don't ya think? I say let the cow moo.

And as for the original poster....yes, quite interesting isn't it? Please, do remember the web address, someone else should be working on it so the content should change sometime.

**** I'm up late.

k

[iron_silk]

I have yet to receive reply to logical debate in regards to the questions I previously raised.

Instead I get rambling of pictures looking alike...of course the funny thing is people then get going from that.

I know I haven't been around here much but the whole picture business seems reaching far for more conspiracy based evidence since what does it really mean?

let stop the pickering and really try to listen?

Thanks!

K-no I know you've mention something before, am I right?

[Shaman]

The morphing pictures of Chan Heung and Chan Koon Pak has to be the most stupid attempt at proving Chan Heungs portrait a fake that I have ever seen. Even my 7 year old could make a better effort, for one thing look at the back of the heads, they don’t match, different shape, look at the ears they don’t match, but wow two peoples eyes and nose match so it must be a fake. Well I would think people in the same family should have similar facial characteristics. So then the question you have to ask is, what sort of moron would even put this on there web site and call it proof. What sort of jaded over the hill, lost in his own megalomania pee brained mongoloid would even think of such a thing. I don’t know, maybe I’ve already answered my own question… :o

[Fu-Pow]

Shaman-

Let's just stop right here. I see you are new to the forum and think that you might have something to prove. But this line of discussion leads to nowhere. What does your above post accomplish? We all have our own opinions of Dave Lacey based on our own observations. Do you think that coming here and blasting him is going to influence anyone's opinion? No....it might make you feel better but your kind of just pi$$ing into the wind and in the mean time stirring up things that would be better left to settle to the bottom. If you want respect on this forum I suggest that you keep your comments on a rational, logical and/or technical level. Impress us with your knowledge....anybody can name call.

Yau Sam and welcome to the forum. :D

[extrajoseph]

Nevertheless I share with Shaman's sentiment. Dave Lacey took the pi$$ out of us in his own webpage and then add more and there is no place we can reply publicly except in a forum like this one. Now I don't want to stir things up again, but fair is fair....

JosephX

[CLFNole]

Can't this just end. Lets move on and try and talk productively about clf. All of this other stuff has no end its just a waste of time. Lets all agree to disagree everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Lets just all move on please.

Peace.

[Serpent]

I agree with Extrajoseph and Shaman. If "General" Lacey is not going to enter into discussion but just hurl insults from the safety of his battlements thinking he's the king**** then he deserves everything he gets.

You talk about having respect, Fu-Pow, but that's a two way street. You're still new to all this don't forget!

[Fu-Pow]

I think CLF Nole is on the right page here. Let's make this productive and not a who did what to who. I'm more interested in talking about differences and similarities amongst the various branches and talking about more technical stuff. Any historical or political stuff really has little bearing on anything I'm doing right now. Nuff said.

[Serpent]

Fu Pow, I really don't mean this as an attack on you, so please don't take it that way. However, you seem to have an enormous ego and it's blinding you to the issue.

First off, to say you have an enormous ego, I need to qualify that accusation.

1. Under your name it says 'Taoist Humanist'. What makes you think anybody here cares?

2. "Fu Pow's Policy". Again, what does anyone here care. Your actions should make your stand quite clear.

3. Perhaps most importantly in this instance:


Any historical or political stuff really has little bearing on anything I'm doing right now. Nuff said.


So why is what you're doing now the most important thing?

Remember, history is usually the story that got told a. the loudest and b. the most often. The history of your style is incredibly important. It's a record of who did what that got you where you are today. Tomorrow you will be the history of your style and it's equally important to keep that as clear and true as possible.

When people try to change history and to bend history to suit their own agenda then problems will arise for the current generation and future generations will lose their roots. And when history and credibility are being attacked using methods like "The General's" then something is seriously "rotten in Denmark".

If you dont think that politics and history are important to your style and your learning, then you're even greener than I thought. It might not be pleasant, but it's very important.

[DRAGON32]

Hello.


Why as much debate on the picture of Chan Heung?
In my School, Chan Heung is considered to founding of Choy Li Fut, and as so is to him respect and it is greeted to him; but that does not mean that we do not know and does not say to us that is a drawing made by one of our GM in the past being based on a photo of the Chan Heung´s son.

That it differentiates exists between photo and drawing at the time of showing our respect the Teacher already died?
In any case the followers of the branch of Chan Yong Fa, this already it of knowing, since they use the drawing in his trademark, as well as must of knowledge that is the author of the picture, ask it to it and that responds to you.

Besos:D

[Fu-Pow]

Serpent-

I assume you replied to me because I see your name after my post but I can't see what you wrote. Why? Because you've been added to my ignore list. Maybe I'll check out one of your posts some time in the distant future and see if you have anything useful to contribute. Until then.....adios.

[k-no]

Hey Shaman, you under the hill, pee brained mongoloid, the point of the picture doesn't end there. The fact is that a portrait of Chan Heung did not surface until the 1970s. Gee I wonder why it took that long? It just illustrates what silly "secret documents" have regarding clout in lineage. Very little when you consider the Chinese Cultural Revolution and the information that was destroyed in the era, never to be recovered. Why don't you and your little 7 year old make up your own web site and then you can say whatever you want, f*ckhead. It must make you a pretty big man to call my sifu an "over the hill, pee brained mongoloid". I sure wish on you the same disrespect from younger people when you reach his age.

This is akin to any of us going to any Chan Heung Memorial forum and stirring up trouble in the threads there, which we would never do. Funny thing is, even though we have our own sides of history, it's morons like you who have no clout in Chan Family CLF that cause friction. You are no better than your little 7 year old.

f*ck you joseph. You were only added to the comments by Sifu Lacey because you talked sh*t with your big mouth. His paper was to be a smple history paper. You went beyond that by calling him a "gullible foreigner". Who's the foreigner? Why don't you STAY in China if being a foreigner is so LOW to you?

Hey all, respect Chan Heung; no one told you not to. For the last time, read this statement and UNDERSTAND. My Sifu respects HIS elders statements, as I respect my Sifu's and Sigung's. The clarification on Hung Sing history was made by the Hung Sing Gwoon as well as adopted by the CLF Association to which my Sifu has been a member of for decades. If you follow along these guidelines, read on. If you are a die hard (Cheung) Hung Sing CLF practicioner then read on. If you want to keep your current history, then STAY AWAY and MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS! Even though there are fewer of us, we still have a sizeable following that is interested in this info, so it's there for them to see.

We gain NOTHING from being part of this, as a kwoon. We get no kickbacks. Our enrollment is not affected as we are now a private club.

This type of sh*t also happened back when Sifu Frank McCarthy made a similar announcement. Here's a saying that I think applies to both instances: "Don't shoot the messenger...."

Like I said, this issue is open to discussion of course. Sifu Lacey welcomes it. It wasn't until Joseph opened his disrespectful mouth to slander my Sifu did insults from our side begin. We'll sit down and have a history talk, but we won't sit around while you insult US. Sifu started something to discuss about, just don't forget who started the sh*t talking.

iron_silk, please e-mail me at flip_dragon@hotmail.com. E-mail me your discussion material again or any questions you may have in its entirety. I will find the time to discuss it with Sifu personally and record his thoughts. I'm just afraid it might be quite long!

k

[Fu-Pow]

K-no-

You know I almost got sucked into arguing with you again.....almost. Then I remembered my policy(please see below).....welcome to my ignore list k-no. It's kind of quiet there....at least from my side....hehehehe

Jo Tau

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow
Serpent-

I assume you replied to me because I see your name after my post but I can't see what you wrote. Why? Because you've been added to my ignore list. Maybe I'll check out one of your posts some time in the distant future and see if you have anything useful to contribute. Until then.....adios.

Why am I not surprised!

That in itself is another example of the ego I spoke about, although this time he happened to be right.

Whenever you get down off your high horse, Fu-Pow, let me know.

[extrajoseph]

"f*ck you joseph. You were only added to the comments by Sifu Lacey because you talked sh*t with your big mouth. His paper was to be a smple history paper. You went beyond that by calling him a "gullible foreigner". Who's the foreigner? Why don't you STAY in China if being a foreigner is so LOW to you?"

Nice to read you again, you have such delicate command of the English language just like your Sifu. I wonder when is your "General" going to put out his next instalment of history and insults and what kind of pu$$y he is going to pull out of his hat this time. I love his last photo: the big black panther with his little white pu$$y, it is so authentic and so chic!

Not here k-no, too many people watching!

:D

[CLFNole]

I have to say that this whole thread is turning into a bad episode of the "Jerry Springer Show".

Can't we all just get along.

[Serpent]

CLFNole, it should be quite obvious by now that no, we can't all get along! ;)

It is a shame, but the loudest and rudest are now the ones accusing the most polite and most interested in adult debate of starting all the **** stirring.

It's like a schoolyard shouting match, "I know you are, but what am I?!"



:rolleyes: :)

[CLFNole]

Serpent:

Actually everyone is starting to sound like a bunch of bat paws (excuse the spelling). :D

Peace.

[Serpent]

Bat paws?

I'm probably being ignorant, but I don't get it! :(

[iron_silk]

I kind of noticed that except for CLFNole everyone is acting a little defensive. And personally I think Fu-Pow is trying to be reasonable.

Anyway thanks K-no I'll send you an email of my post from months ago and post it here again. I have a feeling it will change little, since people will talk about what they want to talk about, but what the hey!

Say I wasn't around when Lacey became "General" Lacey, and I was wondering why the title?

also...I don't want to start a fight but found that message Lacey had for Fu-Pow and Joseph on his site was a little...emotional coming from a respected master.

I am sorry if I offend anyone but it was not intentional but if history has shown me something...my reply here would not generate much of a response anyway!

[Fu-Pow]

I have to say that this whole thread is turning into a bad episode of the "Jerry Springer Show".

Yep....all we need now is some mullets, "wife beater" t-shirts and some family trees that only have one branch. :D

[k-no]

iron_silk,

I'll wait for that e-mail. If my sifu can't answer your questions, or can't debate any arguments you may have....well, there you have it. If or when he does, feel free to give me your feedback or let me know what you don't understand or disagree with. As long as there are no mentions of him being a "pee brained mongoloid", I don't think there'll be any problems. I apologize for forgetting what it was you were asking me, this job hunt is taking a lot out of me.

BTW, the "General" moniker was a nickname for sifu back in OZ. As the web site is geared heavily for his former students and the ones he left behind to senior instructors, they would find it familiar. It's not a title.

As for OTHERS in here, it's nice to see that veiled insults are now considered "adult debate". That's right, keep those "adult debates" behind your computer screens.

As always Joseph, you sidestep my comments and try to "adult debate" me regarding my use of language. You are and always will be only good for using your big mouth. If you had really wanted to drop the issue, you would have stayed the f*ck away from this thread. You obviously have a bone to pick, and the only "p*ssy" in here is you for not coming out and saying it.
Show me some good Choy Lay Fut, not some old man who jumps on every thread with my Sifu's name on it.

k

[extrajoseph]

Gee, I love the Jerry Springer Show, it is one of my all time favourites!

[yutyeesam]

Can you guys direct me to any technical CLF articles on the web (besides clfma.com and howard choy's articles)?

There've been so many articles in print magazines on CLF, from so many different teachers (Doc Fai Wong, Tat Mau Wong, Lee Siu Hung, Buk Sing Sifus, Ed Ng, etc), but not much online. If you know of any, please post them here. I'm going to create A CLF web page devoted to links of CLF web articles. I think it could be an incredible resource.

Thanks,
123

[Serpent]

k-no, you talk **** about everybody but your Sifu, then tell people to "stayed the f*ck away from this thread" if they have an agenda!? If their agenda is defending their history from the lunatic ravings of someone they seriously disagree with, then their agenda is well founded.

You think "General" Dave should just be allowed to shout and holler like a ten year old from his website and expect no retort?

You people crack me up!

[k-no]

Snakey...

#1. I have only talked sh*t about those who talked **** first. The statement that I talk sh*t about "everyone" is FALSE.

#2. You have just given yourself away. "Defending" yourself seems to have become an exercise in INSULTS, that you and others begun FIRST. Then you come here and say we began this whole thing? The "shouting and hollering" began when Joseph and the like began NAME CALLING.

#3. You are a f*cking idiot if you still don't get it by now. Once more it seems I have to repeat myself....This "raving lunacy" you speak of is someone who is echoing something decided by organizations that take precedence over their individual authority. Instead of taking your "board" and debating this with the CLF Union Ltd in HK and the Singapore Hong Sheng Kwoon, you call my Sifu NAMES in order to make yourself feel better about YOUR history.

Listen, if George Bush decides to attack Iraq, and you are against it, and I come running and say hey listen here, the President wants to attack Iraq, and I kinda agree, would that warrant you all to kick my ass and call me names? Take it up with Dubbya! I'm just telling you what he said!

If you still don't understand or refuse to, then it is quite obvious that a history debate is not your agenda, slander and defamation is.

YOU crack me up. No, not really.

k

[extrajoseph]

"Take it up with Dubbya! I'm just telling you what he said!"

Yeah, I like to do that, why don't you ask your Sifu to make an appearance here on this forum? We can talk history and photos in the open without all the f* and $* words appearing on the screen. One old man to another and I promise you I won't call him a "gullible foreigner". Scouts honour, is that a deal?

BTW, I have yet to read anything official in Chinese from the CLF Union Ltd in HK or the Singapore Hong Sheng Kwoon to say that Jeong Yim and not Chan Heung was the original founder of CLF. Sure, the English translation says that but not the original Chinese. Very interseting, isn't it?

JosephX

[extrajoseph]

"also...I don't want to start a fight but found that message Lacey had for Fu-Pow and Joseph on his site was a little...emotional coming from a respected master."

Thanks for that observation, much appreciated.

JosephX

[Shaman]

The Mighty K-no speaks, or is it a foul belch from the general’s overworked Pu$$y. You are a pathetic and worthless person, with no idea of what you’re talking about. Your one of these people who is all talk and no action, I wonder who you learned that from.

[k-no]

Yeah Shaman, like what you just said meant anything. Before you call anyone worthless, take a good look at yourself, idiot. What action have you taken besides talk sh*t yourself? Nothing, you hypocrite.


k

[Shaman]

Oh K-no..... your a funny man.... you are a man right?... fools like you make me laugh.

[k-no]

It wouldn't take much to make an idiot like you laugh. Go back in your trailer.

k

[Shaman]

hehehehe why dont you come live with me..... plenty of room here

[yik-wah-tik]

i can't believe this is still going on here? don't you "ADULTS" (meaning joseph and the rest of the internet ninjas) have anything better to do than continue this attack that you will evidently NEVER win?! as long as you guys stay hidden you are safe and that is why none of you will ever publish anything of worth because you all have telltale characteristics that will identify your identity, therefore resulting in major physical damage to your persons.

i could care less about your opinions on me or your negative bull****. until the chan clan makes a move to prove our side of the story wrong, you are losing the fight and as i have stated from the very beginning.............jeong yim is and will always be the man!!!!! i am still around but working on the promoting hung sing choy lee fut and our history. once its out its out!

i may not know dave lacey personally, but i know his brother and together they have an incredible history to tell of their background and what they claim is verifiable. they are known fighters. i feel sorry if anyone gets a hold of you.

but joseph, it seems like you are losing your edge, you are using words like ***** to refer to dave lacey. obviously, your so-called sifu has taught you nothing about respect for other sifu's. your so-called gung fu training has done you no good.

my attack on doc fai is a long awaited opportunity to vent our frustrations on a one time student of professor lau bun who makes some extremely outrageous claims and lau buns people know the whole truth but we have kept our mouths closed for far too long.!!!

but i have never disrespected him as a gung fu man, just on his claims. joseph, i would quit while you still have breath in your alleged old ass lungs. you are ****ing with a branch of clf that will never back down from an enemy based on one of the fut san hung sing rules 10: never back down from an enemy!

give this up!

k-no, i apologize for joseph and his backward ways, his sifu never taught him proper etiquette. he is just a frustrated shadow of man whose time has passed and only relies on sneaky attacks from the depths of his personal hell. but then again we don't even know of josephs teachers anyways. maybe he never really learned clf, just watched from the outside. yeah thats it, he was rejected by the hung sing elders and he has this bottomless hatred pit for hung sing students. poor joseph.

frank

[Serpent]

I think Frank McCarthy and the "General" would get along really well. They both have the communication skills of a ten year old, a mouth far bigger than their brain and a desperate need to berate and denounce anything they consider a threat to their fragile paradigm.

The empty vessel makes the most noise.

[extrajoseph]

Can't stay away now can you? Welcome to the show!

JosephX

[regulator]

joseph, you state "We can talk history and photos in the open without all the f* and $* words appearing on the screen. "

you have already had opportunity to do exactly this, yet you decline Master Lacey's invitation to speak of this openly in a setting where things of this nature could be resolved once and for all. why?

quite simply, you're all pu$$ies. all this crap about "all talk and no action" is what i see YOU doing. what contributions to the CLF community have you made? even to TCMA in general, if any? you come around stirring up the $hit, making waves, rocking the proverbial boat, well that is all fine and dandy, but you cannot back up your wild claims. your allegations have no foundation. you hurl insults from behind your computer screen and will not "face the music" so to speak.

what do you have to lose, if you are so correct? you have the opportunity to prove Master Lacey wrong once and for all, how could you resist this urge if your true "goal" is to seek truth , like you claim? your actions (or lack thereof) show your true colors. you are no better than the bogus picture of others you portray. the true deceivers are apparent here, because one side is prepared to go "the distance" and you back off. if you have such good arguments, accept the invitation and settle this the old fashioned way. or do you think honor and integrity and courage are "fabrications" as well?

[extrajoseph]

Go the distance when talking about history is to produce solid proof of your claims. What good is meeting face to face and have a good yelling match. Dave Lacey claimed the cat is out of the bag and the photo is a fake, I am just saying it is not a photo "produced" by Lee Yiu Ling and there is no proof that it is a fake apart form fancy computer graphics.

Dave Lacey said the CLF Union declared Jeong Yim to be the founder and not Chan Heung, if you can read Chinese they didn't say that, so who made up the story in the first place? I have yet to see any authorisation from the same Union to say Dave speak on their behalf. It is all hot air and just a show to gain some publicity mileage.

People at the real top will sort all this out soon or later. It is not up to Dave or me to decide.

[Fu-Pow]

Joseph-

Well put.

[k-no]

Hey Frank, regarding Malaysia, drop me a line on my e-mail addy (flip_dragon@hotmail.com). Talk to ya soon.

Regards,

K

[SETANSI]

K no ,

Have not seen you since that night at the tea house:cool:
Must go back again, good times huh? Half is plenty if you don't need it;) Still would like some more though.:D

No need to post as it seems you , the Regulator and Frank Sifu seem to say most of it for me. Are you going to Malyasia? Must have found a job yeah. You should think about going to Singapore with the gwoon.


FOR THE REST THIS SMALL BIT OF INFORMATION

bat paws = old ladies\ A grany
its chinese

[yik-wah-tik]

HEY K-NO ,

AND TO THOSE WHO WERE INTERESTED, FROM NOVEMBER 8-11 THERE IS A WORLD GATHERING AT THE MALAYSIA HUNG SING KWOON WHO IS ALSO CELEBRATING THEIR 16TH ANNIVERSARY.

THIS IS A HUNG SING THING! BUT THE CHAN FAMILY IS ALWAYS WELCOME TO ATTEND AND I AM SURE THAT I WILL SEE SOME SIFU'S OF THE CHAN FAMILY.

I WILL BE THE ONLY ONE REPRESENTING MY SCHOOL SINCE MY SIFU WILL BE IN FUT SAN FOR A MONTH TRAINING WITH HIS NEW SIFU THERE. IF ANY ARE PASSING BY FUT SAN (JOSEPH, SERPENT)
PLS VISIT HIM AT THE FUT SAN HUNG SING KWOON.

K-NO I WILL EMAIL YOU ABOUT THIS AND GIVE YOU MY PHONE #
CALL ME TONITE IF YOU CAN.

HOPEFULLY CHAN FAMILY MEMBERS ATTEND BECAUSE I WILL SURE LIKE TO SETTLE THIS NEW DRAMA ABOUT THE CHAN FAMILY MYSTERIOUSLY FOUND MENTION OF CHING CHO BEING CHOY FOOK. WHAT A DISCOVERY.

WOW, DARRYL CHOY MUST HAVE REALLY OVERLOOKED THIS BECAUSE HE ONCE EMAILED ME TELLING ME THAT HE HAS RE-AND RE- AND RESEARCHED THE FAMILY MANUEL AND COULD NOT LOCATE ANY MENTION OF CHING CHO. COME ON EVEN I AM NOT CHINESE AND I KNOW THE CHARACTERS OF CHING CHO. PLUS THEY SAID THAT CHOY FOOK ESCAPED SHAOLIN WITH HIS HEAD ON FIRE EARNING HIMSELF THE NAME SCAR HEADED MONK. BUT WITH ALL THE INFO ON CHING CHO EMERGING, NO ONE HAS EVER MENTIONED THAT CHING CHO HAD A SCARRED HEAD. HOW CAN SOMEONE MISS THAT FACT?

ANOTHER THING, IS IF CHOY FOOK IS REALLY CHING CHO AND ACCORDING TO OUR HISTORY (ALL HUNG SING) CHAN HEUNG SENT JEONG YIM TO CHING CHO. ONCE AGAIN IF CHOY FOOK WAS CHING CHO THEN WOULDN'T THAT MAKE JEONG YIM AND CHAN HEUNG EQUALS, OR HING DAI? SO HOW DOES THE CHAN CLAN BACK OUT OR CLEAN THIS ONE UP? THEY WILL HAVE A HARD TIME WITH THE CHAN HEUNG PHOTO.

SO THERE FORE, THE CHAN CLAN BITES THE DUST. AND ANOTHER ONES GONE, AND ANOTHER ONES GONE, HUNG SING IS A MUST!

ARGUE TO YOUR HEARTS CONTENT, FEWER AND FEWER PEOPLE ARE HANGING ON TO THIS LOSING BATTLE.

CALL ME K-NO
FRANK

SEE YOU GUYS IN MALAYSIA

[Serpent]

You really do live in a fantasy world of your own creation, don't you, Frank!

It's really very sad.

[anton]

Things such as this are rarely solved by empty words across the internet by people whose opinions are not really authoritative. Perhaps it would be expedient if everyone agreed to disagree for now. This issue will certainly be resolved in time, by the people between whom the argument exists, in their own time. The most active posters in this ongoing argument on this board are good martial artists and all have much to contribute in the discussion of MA and CLF in particular. How about we stop bickering over details and *****ing about who started it and saying "oh I was prepared to discuss this civilly but then so-and-so started to act immaturely". Lets end it here and discuss something constructive. How about agreeing to disagree and let this matter be settled by those who should settle it - the sifus and elders of the CLF community. By contributing in this discussion we only lower ourselves.

[Shaolin Punk]

my guess is that it is like ejaculating semen. we probably know that doing so hinders performance, and that we really should not do so as much, but, **** it feel good to spurt. So once one person fires a shot, it becomes a huge CLF circle jerk.

[Fu-Pow]

:rolleyes:

[yutyeesam]

Fu-Pow,
I just PM'd you.

123

[yik-wah-tik]

shut the f**k up BIAAATCHHHHH!

FROM YOUR FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOOD GUNG FU MAN.....

FRANK MCCARTHY
HUNG SING KWOON-AMERICAN FUT SAN BRANCH REPRESENTIVE.........IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE......THEN CHECK OUR WEBSITE HUNGSING.COM MY PICTURES ARE THERE. NOW WHAT?

PEACE IN THE MOTHERLAND!

[Serpent]

Frank, what are you dribbling on about now? I even checked your site and couldn't find a picture of you there. What am I supposed to see? Is there a shot of you with Chan Heung, getting all the details from the source?

No, I didn't think so.

Take your own advice, little man. Your bark is far bigger than you will ever be.

[regulator]

i checked the same site and found the pics.

try here:

http://hungsing.com/china.htm

slightly more than halfway down the page.

[Serpent]

Aha! Now I see the pictures. Thanks regulator.

And? What am I supposed to learn from that, Frank? Proof that you're the American fat thug of Hung Sing? I never doubted that anyway.

I worry for your mental health, Frank, I really do.

[Serpent]

OK, this is getting silly and I'm getting offensive again. I said before that I was out of this argument and here I am, dragged back in again.

I apologise to anyone that I may have offended. Yep, even you, Frank.

Believe what you want everyone, just don't try to force your beliefs on others. Train hard and long love CLF, in all its rich and varied guises.

I'm out.

[yik-wah-tik]

thanks for the compliment!

but i still say shut the **** up biatchh!!!!

the question is could you stand up to this fat thug of hung sing.

don't be jealous that the lineage of my school overshadows yours in history! you can join us if you want, but then you'd be called a traitor by the chan clan and looked upon as my *****!


serpent you are a PUNK!

your friendly neighborhood gung fu man!

[yik-wah-tik]

serpent and the rest,


don't let my size bother you slurpent! but just for your info, i am kind of a miracle kid see, i am only heavy because i was paralyzed from the waist down at one point as a result from a 50 foot fall. i spent alot of time in a wheel chair. and see, the one thing that happened was i gained weight since then, but as you can easily tell, i am no longer in a wheel chair, from www.hongshengguan.com you can also see that my horse is pretty strong. oh, that is the website for the fut san hung sing kwoon and my photo is there as well.

but don't let my size throw you, i am like a BIG box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get! so i would rather be fat than ugly like your dumb ass! at least i could lose weight!

love ta hear from ya!

frankie boy

[k-no]

Frank,

What's up brah? I tried e-mailing you but you seem to be over the limit at the moment. Anyhoo, I'll hit you up tomorrow afternoon, sorry to be incognito, I've been preparing for the big Blade Show over in Irvine. Talk to you soon.

k

[yik-wah-tik]

hey man, if you can't email me thru my email then reach me thru our website. my sifu checks the emails reg.

anyways i was in frisco's chinatown coming back from seeing my sigung jew leong and hop sing, i ran into some doc fai guys from l.a. man, tall people, but pretty cool.


frank