Question for WC peeps!

[General Kwei]

When you guys are doing chisau/sparring type drills, what are your general or preferred tactics?
What I mean is, are there specific body parts you go after, or do you just prefer to hit whatever opens up to you? Do you use footwork? Kicks?

[Dave Farmer]

Hi General

Personally, not a big fan of 'Drills' and pre-programmed responses.

They're O.K. for early student development, in improving timing, confidence, positioning etc; plus help to demonstrate examples of technical usage, but over doing them IMHO turns out robots who can't respond out of sequence.

I may be wrong but learning 5 or 6 step set pieces are just a filler for lesson time.

I prefer to allow a student to develop naturally to respond to a 'situation' rather than a 'technique' and View chi sau as the tool for achieving this without the need for drilling.

With regards to 'targets' ,at all times I teach to attack the 'opponent' rather than his 'attacks' and hit wherever I feel an opening.

Attacking isn't really a 'choice', just naturally try to flow into whatever the opponent offers.

Regards

Dave F

[yuanfen]

General Kwei asks:
When you guys are doing chisau/sparring type drills, what are your general or preferred tactics?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
What? Chi sao is not a drill.
The question is too broad for a sensible answer.
But then- what do I know General.
I am just a foot soldier.

[BeiKongHui]

If Chi Sao is not a drill then what would you call it?

[General Kwei]

I apologize yuanfen if I was unclear. I was including any and all drills people may do, that could be similar to chisau and including chisau itself. Even if you do not consider chisau a drill, you might be able to answer the second part of the question?

I am no big fan of drills Mr. Farmer. I have used them from time to time as they can be helpful if not used in an overabundance.

[TjD]

as to preferred tactics, i really try not to think about anything in chi sau; because theres just too much going on. i try to stay focused, stay in control of the situation, and be aggressive(not angry aggressive). with those three intentions flowing i usually do just fine with whatever situation arises

thinking about doing anything will make you too slow, and youll just get hit

[joy chaudhuri]

BeiKongHui, asks
If Chi Sao is not a drill then what would you call it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A drill normally means a routine that is repeated again and again.
If so defined chi sao is much more than a drill. There is a repetition aspect to it- appropriate transitions from bong to fok and tan...
but there is single, double and lop and many variations thereof for
learning about the center, about timing, about information gathering, about experimentation with different motions about spatial relationships and much more. Hope that helps.

[BeiKongHui]

Ok, I see your point. You are saying the word drill is to limiting to describe Chi Sao. Makes sense.
thanks

[Atleastimnotyou]

I have no "tactics." When i do chi sau with someone i have no idea how i will hit them. I just wait for the opening. And the only time i use footwork is if the opponent moves back and i have to close the gap.


Corey

[Tristan]

And the only time i use footwork is if the opponent moves back and i have to close the gap. What about the stance turning? Don´t you use it while playing chisao?
(Just wondering).

T.

[Atleastimnotyou]

if my opponents energy is coming in and i have to shift, then i will. (shifting is what we call turning) But in our lineage, we do not move our feet during chi sau unless we are closeing the gap or shifting.

[stuartm]

Hi,

IMHO, you cant have tactics. Chi sau is about expression and freedom. To have tactics suggest that chi sau is a preditermined set of actions and reactions - which of course it is not. In a fight situation, you can guarantee that tactics will be useless. You can try and put yourself in a superior position, but once it kicks off, it will be sensitivity and reaction (i.e your skills gained through chi sao) that will ascertain the outcome.

Having mental intent, concentrating on forward energy and body positions when learning is fine, but ultimately we should all be aiming for our chi sau to be an independent reaction to a changing and unique set of circumstances

Stuart

[Atleastimnotyou]

"Having mental intent, concentrating on forward energy and body positions when learning is fine, but ultimately we should all be aiming for our chi sau to be an independent reaction to a changing and unique set of circumstances "


Having mental intent, concentrating on forward energy and body positions is how you get your body to just react to each new circumstance that you can't predict

[OdderMensch]

as etiquette, being a good partner. You must be mean to your SiDai, and wary of your SiHing. don't punch and kick vaugely, but with malice. sometimes I will just let my gaurd slip with a sidai just to make sure they are realy trying to hit me. If not, then just smile and make sure they know what a punch is meant to do ;) And I don't have a Sihing that won't pop me one if my footwork is off.

while double rolling arms is not a drill (or at least "drill" is inadiquate and limiting term) how about the single, "static" version. Dan Chi Sau? both participants are in the YCKM and there is a limited # of things that can happen before someone gets hit, or the hands return to the tan/fook position.

[wingchunalex]

my strategy is defence. many people only have offences and have a hard time with defence so i try to focus on defence and making sure i can stope every attack instead of just countering and getting hit at the same time as i see many people do. i try not to trade punches.

[Rolling_Hand]

--i try not to trade punches--wingchunalex

**Let go of an idea, a belief... in other words, learn from your body. --RH

[stuartm]

Tactics usually involve pre-meditation which should not be your emphasis in chi sao

[YungChun]

Originally posted by General Kwei
When you guys are doing chisau/sparring type drills, what are your general or preferred tactics?


The tactics are defined by the basic concepts of the system, like: Centerline control/occupation, application of forward energy, facing, correct positioning of the body/arms. Chi-Sao does not use or rely on any fixed patterns. In pure Chi-Sao any technique that happens should be a result of a particular defect in the opponent's energy or position (structure), this error or defect dictates what, when and how the counter techniques are done - you are in essence complimenting their action with your technique. Note that a defect is typically caused by the opponent’s attempt to take a line that is not 'open' this causes his ‘neutral energy’ to become non-neutral or less neutral – this is a defect. If there is no defect in either person's structure or energy then nothing should happen in the way of techniques - only rolling - that is perfect Chi-Sao. Depending on level, there is no thought of technique only thought of controlling the line.



Originally posted by General Kwei
Do you use footwork? Kicks?

Advanced people will use sticking leg elements in their Chi-Sao using their legs to trap, immobilize or collapse the opponent's legs/feet - the legs complement the arms and hands.

[wingchunner]

Question for WC peeps!
When you guys are doing chisau/sparring type drills, what are your general or preferred tactics?
What I mean is, are there specific body parts you go after, or do you just prefer to hit whatever opens up to you? Do you use footwork? Kicks?

My general tactics are:

Intent and focus always on opponents centerline,
Good structure (stance and techniques),
elbows in,
long bridge energy,
protect my centerline,
relaxed, but alert, and
trust and maintain wing chun concepts.

My preferred tactic is to just go in.

The specific 'body part' I go after is the centerline. I don't try to hit. If they get hit, it's because they told my body to hit them.

I mainly use footwork to close the gap; sometimes I step in to uproot if their arms feel dead; sometimes if they are being overly forceful I step out of their line of attack.

I kick if they step back too far for me to effectively close the gap with a step or sometimes before I close the gap.

Marty

[reneritchie]

I take what ever is offered me, but as Chi Sao is a learning process, I will also leave myself in bad positions at times to work on recovery, I will prod and poke to work discover how people react to certain things, and I will in general try to improve my WCK, and help my partner improve his/her WCK as much as possible in between. That, combined with a healthy amount of San Sao, and some trying out of folks in other arts to see what they try to do to me, and what I can do to them, helps keep me spry and lively 8)

RR

[old jong]

It is rather funny to realise that the originator of this thread was in fact R5A under a new name!

[zerozero]

Originally posted by old jong
It is rather funny to realise that the originator of this thread was in fact R5A under a new name!

Is it funny or is it pathetic? Maybe pathetically funny.

The guy seems pathological. He may not need a good teacher. Rather, a good doctor.