Drills

[Alpha Dog]

Only for beginners? When do you stop doing drills?

[General Kwei]

You must be referencing Dave Farmers post on my thread? Mr. Farmer mentioned that they are mostly for beginners but I think that there are those drills that maintain their usefulness throughout ones martial lifetime?

[Alpha Dog]

That's where i got the idea, yes. Curious to hear what people think about the subject of drills in general. Some see certain ones as always having value; others like to see drills replaced by chi sao.

[General Kwei]

I see, sounds like a good idea. If there is any confusion as to what is a drill I think joy chaudri does a good job of defining it and explaining it on my original thread.

[Alpha Dog]

Yes I saw that -- here, however, I am only asking about drills and when or if they should be stopped.

[churn-ging]

I feel that u should never stop practicing the basic wing chun drills, ie: bong da, lap da, tan da, pak da, etc...

No matter how much experience u have in wing chun, it is always good to go back and practice these drills all the time. You might not have to practice them as much as you did when you were a beginner, but its still good to go back and review them because you could always learn something new from them, just like SNT.

Also, the more familiar you are with the drill, the easier it will be for you to explain the drill to beginning students and for you to see if they are doing it right or not.

[Dave Farmer]

Hi guys.

Yes I do still practice and teach drills IF I have a specific opening/response/usage to work on or illustrate.

Though as I mentioned in the other thread, I think too many people overstate the use of drills to the detriment of 'Natural' development.

Thats what makes Wing Chun/Chi Sau so Alive.

And no need for the formallity General, Dave or Oi Ugly are just fine !!! :D :D ;) :D :D

regards

Dave

[yuanfen]

Whenever new combinations are "discovered" one should practice them. IMO drills keep on evolving. Drills emerge from the
forms.

[CLOUD ONE]

Yuan fen-''Whenever new combinations are "discovered" one should practice them. IMO drills keep on evolving. Drills emerge from the
forms.''
That sounds it contradicts each other. Wouldn't SLT be classed as a set of drills strung together?
How are these new combos 'discovered', from SLT, Chi sau or mentally thinking it out?

If drills keep on evolving, would it be a drill? How many different drills are there that could be made up from SLT?

[Wingman]

Drills are not only for beginners. You should not stop practicing drills. A beginner has a different perspective of the drills than an advanced student. If you are already an advanced student and has not done the drills for a long time, try doing the drills again. You'll be surprised how different you do the drills now than when you were still a beginner. Your drills now would be more flowing. To an outside observer, he could even mistake it as chi sao. And it does feel like chi sao especially if both partners are proficient in chi sao.

When I was still a beginner, I used to be stiff in doing the drills. I used to have bruises on my forearms because I use force against force. But now it's different. Doing the drills again could be a gauge on how far I have advanced in my wing chun.

And yes, drills do evolve. When I was still a beginner, my teacher told me to find variations/combinations on the drills. The variations could then evolve to an entirely new drill. Sometimes we combine it with other drills or "link" it with other drills. Creating a new drill from the old is not easy.

When I was taught chi sao, I was told to forget the drills so that my chi sao would be spontaneous and not predictable. After I am proficient in chi sao, I was told to do the drills again and see the difference. There is a lot of difference as I have stated above. When I was told to do variations on the drills and create new drills, I find it easy now. Why? Because I can now "listen" to my opponent. One "false move" (a move not in accordance to the drill) from my opponent and I would respond appropriately and automatically. I have now a deeper understanding of the drills than when I was a beginner.

[Wingman]

That sounds it contradicts each other. Wouldn't SLT be classed as a set of drills strung together?

No, SLT is not a set of drills strung together. It is a dictionary of "tools/techniques" in wing chun. The dictionary will only give you the meaning of the word. It is up to you to use it in a sentence.


How are these new combos 'discovered', from SLT, Chi sau or mentally thinking it out?

It depends on your understanding of wing chun. If you are a beginner, you have to mentally think it out and discuss it with your partner. You can also use trial and error. Please refer to the second to the last paragraph of my post above. If you already know chi sao, please refer to the last paragraph of my post above.


If drills keep on evolving, would it be a drill?
Yes.


How many different drills are there that could be made up from SLT

You can create countless drills. Take this analogy. There are only 3 primary colors but if you combine these 3, you can make countless hues for the eye to see.

[stuartm]

Hi,

Drilling is useful when it is purposeful. I have been at schools where for much of the class, students line up and perform drills in the air , without even moving (ie tan da, pak da, jum etc) - too long in my opinion and doesnt give students any feel for application!

I occasionally drill in the air with my students, but more so in application. For example, bong sau is very difficult to explain to a student just by asking them to mimic a shape. However, show them slowly in application and they will have a much better idea.

For e.g, pak sau. When practising in the air, the student will take some time to develop a feel for elbow energy, yiu ma, rooting or tringulation. However, punch to their sternum and ask them to block and they will soon realise the essential ingredients as stated earlier.

I find drilling better for warm up. As a warm up in class, i normally do selections from the following for about 10 - 15 mins to warm and stretch the body:

Bend / rotate knees . rotate arms over and under shoulders (windmilling)
YJKYM
Jic Kuen
Lin Wan Kuen
Biu Ma with Wu Sau and Mun Sau
180 degree pivot with Fak Sau
Biu Ma with Jic Kuen , step back with bil sao
Front kick, step and double punch
Yiu Ma Kuen
Cool down with 'lut sau, jik chung' drill in YJKYM

Once again, JMO

Stuart