how important is qi gong?

[SevenStar]

Let's say there's a student that practices proper structure and silk reeling, but does not do qi gong breathing exercises. In your oppinion, will there be any noticeable difference in his skill?

OR, do you think that qi IS the body mechanics?

OR, do you think that qi is something else? (I've heard an argument - a good one at that - that qi is merely metabolism)

[SifuAbel]

To those whom only want to live a short life, not really.

[Serpent]

Qi gong is very important. It's part of gung fu. Gung fu without qi gong is like a Ferrari with a Datsun engine in it.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by SifuAbel
To those whom only want to live a short life, not really.

possibly, but I meant from a fighting perspective.

[Shaolindynasty]

Well, if you mean a person never learns to coridante his breath, then yes it's a disadvantage. Like holding your breath while you lift. The word qigong is a broad catagory it's like saying "kungfu". There are allot of different types.

[Shadow Dragon]

For me Qi-gong is an essential part of Kung Fu.

Take it out and you loose a vital part.

I know many schools these days internal and external skimp in these areas to keep their students happy.

[No_Know]

Like chin-na, it might not be named or talked about, but it's in there. If it's Chinese fighting Kung-Fu, it's likely integrated or addressed already. For fighting, qigong is likely not necessary as a seperate study. You probably already have it integrated in a form or several or all. Do the form to the best of your ability, you are likely getting any qigong that's there.

"Let's say there's a student that practices proper structure and silk reeling, but does not do qi gong breathing exercises. In your oppinion, will there be any noticeable difference in his skill? "

Besides Power, Spirit, Speed, Crispness/sharpness, Endurance, no.

I No_Know that there can be Chinese Kung-Fu without some form of integrated qigong breathing exercise.

[Serpent]

No-Know has a point. One I actually understood this time! ;)

When your teacher teaches you a form, does he also teach how and when to breathe during that form? When to exhale explosively, etc.?

If so, then that's qigong. Or at least, the beginnings of it. If you're learning forms and techniques and not learning how to breathe, then you may want to re-evaluate your teacher.

[SevenStar]

It's not my teacher, just something I'm contemplating.

[dedalus]

My feeling about qigong is that in addition to training the breath, it really is an invaluable tool for training good martial structure. Qigong trains particular muscle groups and builds a muscle memory that is complimentary to, and yet different from, the mechanics you train in form work. In particular, I'm thinking that qigong is a vital tool for peng training in taiji. I think it's safe to say that there aren't as many form postures that have to be held for as long as qigong postures, so you access and train different muscle fibers in different ways.

[Repulsive Monkey]

Is totally essential however there are some martial arts that are completely deviod of it. Qi Gong is not expressly for regulating breath, that is a single area, and even then to say that it does that isn't really accurate.

[Former castleva]

Important it is.
It seems some masters consider it to be essential for development of yourself and kung-fu.
And certainly it has to be there as so many styles have it (maybe not all but many do have their personal sets)
I think it is very great for internal development,not just your qi but your qi to fill your internal organs with it (besides external training) If Qi-gong is done I believe you should understand and practice both sides of it-hard qi-gong (for muscles,tendons etc.=external nobility) soft qi-gong (for internal well-being)
Like ying/yang,both emphasized.
In this case,I guess,it´s martial qi-gong.
Martial QG,I guess,is necessary for getting the full potential out of your art,developing your health as a side-effect.


:)

[Liokault]

I think it would make very little differance if you do Qi Gong or not.


In my style Qi Gung (Nei Kung) is central but due to my life style i offton go for a long time without doing any. This appears to make no differance.

I have even compaired training and fighting in the ring having done Nei Kung and having not done any for 3 months. No noticable differance at all.


Having said all this i am a total beliver in the Nei Gung as taught to me and I apreciate its benifits when i do do it.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

maybe it's cause we don't do forms, but i have noticed an incredible benifit in my ability to sink, root, flow, relax, whip, and react without thinking directly from my breathing exercises.

[fa_jing]

I think the breathing helps to integrate your movement as a whole. If you were to practice the mechanical movement, breath properly, but use no Yi "mind/intent" in your practice, you would also lose a benefit. I think the visualization prepares your mind for the action, as well as helps to build nueral pathways, etc.

However, seperate Qi Gong practice is not entirely necessary, one could simply use their existing martial forms and add the Qi Gong in. Incidentally, the Wing Chun ancestors we know of, did not speak of Qi, at least not by that term. I do believe that they spoke of breathing, and perhaps visualization, which should be pretty much the same thing.

[MonkeySlap Too]

There are different types of Qigong. Martial Qigong is an essential component of getting the most out of your structure.

It is not essential to fight (Muay Thai is a good example), but to develop the kind of oomph that good CMA produces it is essential.

Both begin much the same, but diverge along the path. The key is to quantify the results.

For me, Qigong skills help magnify a wide range of practical fighting skills that would be less effective without the specialized skills from the Qigong training.

[Water Dragon]

That rear naked I showed you was an example of Qi Gong. You already felt what it does.

[SevenStar]

no doubt. I know what it can do, I'm just curious as to everyone's oppinions on qi and what exactly they deem it to be - structure, breathing, metabolism, etc. so far, people have said that:

1. you don't need it to fight, but it add extra power
2. you don't need it
3.it's essential
4.if you don't do it, you die early

there are alot of differing oppinions.

GDA, what do you think not doing forms has to do with it?

[Water Dragon]

Sticking with the rear naked example, it works well without the qi. It works mo' betta' with it.

[Nexus]

Most people who skip the chi kung or do it very rarely usually were not given a strong foundation in it. Chi kung is the foundation to t'ai chi, it has always been such in the training regime's from the Chen's to the Yang family.

This is not only referring to the slow moving relaxation health chi gongs however. Iron Shirt Chi Kung, Hung Ha Chi Kung, there are several that train very specific attributes and aspects of the individual.

As for standing meditation in general, Embracing the One, Embracing the Moon and Mixing Fire and Water are the essential 3 standing meditation movements/postures (and Wuji of course).

In Traditional training, T'ai chi was considered the graduate school of the taoist arts and was not even taught to a student until they had spent 2-3 years doing standing meditation practice. This was not because the teacher was a fool or was holding out on the student, and you can use your own common sense in understanding why this practice was given so much emphasis.

With all of that said and now the voice of hypocracy, I only do a few forms of chi kung each day. Some people spend 2 hours on chi kung and one hour on t'ai chi, however my training is probably the other way around.

Master Jou Tsung Hwa who wrote the book 'The Tao of Taijiquan' emphasized the meditative aspects of it as being the key to taiji. He said the cultivation of the lower dantien was the key to putting true power into t'ai chi. Read his books for a more detailed and informative explanation.

[fa_jing]

That's a nice book, I have it. WD - I saw it over at Myueng's house.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

sevenstar . .. since i don't do forms i might be noticing benifits from my breathing sets i would normally get from forms.

i have learned a handful of short sets, but our sifu doesn't encourage us to keep doing the sets after we understand the techniques. he doesn't discourage it; he's just not a big fan of forms.

im not sure that i would get the same benifit in terms of clearing my head from forms, but then again i wouldn't know.

[IronFist]

how important is qi gong?

SevenStar, I think you are overlooking the most important aspect here. The thing to remember is, all ninjas are mammals, and they hate pirates. :D

IronFist

[dezhen2001]

i posted here a few days ago and it didn't even register... wtf? :mad::( Not that i said anything special anyway LOL

To me Qigong is very important, as it's the foundation health and mental clarity are based on. If your body does not have good posture, is relaxed and clear, then it's difficult to train in anything.

Qigong for me anyway, also develops the whole body connection (for want of a better term), which is very important in CMA, as well as patience and focus. I think a lot of CMA forms have this as well, so it's good. I know the Wing Chun and Taijiquan i have seen does anyway.

The most important benefit i have found from practise though, is the mindset it develops. Just relaxed but focussed, able to adapt to whatever happens...

david

[SevenStar]

any thoughts on the chi/metabolism connection?

[dezhen2001]

dunno about it sorry :) But i do know that when i train hard qigong a lot i REALLY need to eat much more than i do now... which is almost impossible as i eat so much anyway lol But i know others who don't have such an appetite from training, even it slows down... i guess it depends :)

david