How do you get back up if you're knocked to the ground?

[Merryprankster]

Hey everybody,

I was curious, how does your style address getting back up if you find yourself on the ground, with no control over the opponent, and him standing over you? Here's how we do it.

1. Get on your back, legs facing the opponent, hands up to protect the face.
2. After perhaps unloading a couple of kicks to create some distance, you can sit on your hip. I will describe as though on my right. Sit on your right hip. Your left leg is bent, knee pointing up, foot on the ground. Your right leg is flat on the ground, with the outside of your leg facing the ground. It should be relaxed, but slightly ****ed. Your right hand is posted behind you on the ground. Your left hand is out in front of your face, outside of your forearm pointing at your opponent, to help protect your head from any incoming blows.
3. When the moment is right, support yourself on your right hand and left leg. Bring your hips up off the ground, and thrust forward with a kick from the right leg, towards the knee or groin or leg--anything to create some distance. Now, you use the "swinging gate," created by your right arm and left leg, and swing your right leg underneath and behind your left in a wide base. Bring your right hand back up to appropriate guard position as you do this, once it is no longer needed for support.
4. Assume your fighting stance, and take three steps back as you do so, shuffle back in our case to maintain the stance (if you're restricted from moving, you're restricted from moving *shrug*) to ensure that a rush does not take you by surprise before you are ready to re-engage.
5. You should now be standing and ready to run or resume conflict.

I've also read about a sambo guy that was attacked by a group of people (rolling a drunk). He just covered up and started rolling, rolling, rolling, granby style across the shoulders (keeps you from getting trapped flat on your stomach) until he managed to work his way out of the group before he used a standing-up sequence. Seems like that might be a not half-bad idea in a group.

Your thoughts?

[NPMantis]

Hey there Merry P,

There are 2 ways I have seen so far in my school.

The first is the classic flip, flicking your legs up and down and landing on them, you know the one? In most of the KF movies.

The other one (which I much prefer) is hard to explain properly without a demo, you sort of roll over back and to the side and onto your feet - it's easy and works and creates a little distance between yourself an your opponent during it.

I've seen the way you're talking about.

Personally I'd probably just get onto my feet in crouching position and stand up from there, even if your oppoenent attacks you in a crouching position there is still much you can do to defend yourself.

Does this help at all?

Take care,

NPMantis

[Helicopter]

We don't actually have any standing-up techniques (that I know of) 1 or 2 of the guys do the flip-up thing.

Mostly our emphasis is defence on the ground and moving on the ground, with monkey kicks, crab-walking and a couple of others.

You're so vunerable whilst getting up if you have the time anything is good, personally I try to stand without using my hands at all, I kind of spin on my hips/butt on to one knee and see if I've opportunity to stand.

[{i^(]

Where the guy rolled into and through the crowd is also known as a "fulsom roll", I believe. It's a prison-style move, designed for getting away from crowds surrounding you. I guess they also flail their legs into the guy, but mostly just throw weight into them or take them down by the momentum. Seems a good choice.

I haven't got into ground work yet, so I can't answer style-wise. Yours sounds good!

[ged]

merry prankster - your way sounds good.

the way ive been taught - initially, kind of sit down, legs out straight, hands slightly behind your bum, providing support so you can kick out/jam his approaches/go for his groin. then, when you get some distance...

keep, for instance, your left leg straight. bend your right leg, and place your right foot OVER your left knee, putting it down just to the left of it. then, pushing off it and your left arm, and holding your right arm in front of your face, push off backwards to your feet.

in this example, you come to your feet in pretty much a right off-centre stance with your right arm covering the whole way.

i might of gotten a few limbs mixed up there :) but it seems similar to your way, and it works. the whole creating distance thing is definitely a shared feature.

[rogue]

Same method as yours Merry. Another tactic besides kicking (hey we're TKD) from the ground is to take the guy down by hooking his ankle with one foot while kicking/pushing the knee with the other. Works good if the guy isn't one of those ****ed Good Grapplers. I'd like to see that roll you mentioned.

[KC Elbows]

Merry,
I'm gonna have to try that, that sounds like a good technique for the situation, plus I have long legs, and kicks like the one you mention usually work well in buying me space.

[Helicopter]

We do that along with a variant where you brace the ankle and hook behind the knee pulling them forward (with a bit of side pressure to make sure they dont land on you.)

Another favorite is where you shoot your legs between theirs and split them apart, throws 'em off balance for the follow up (you can use your imagination :p ) if they fall forward you can tuck their head and throw them over the top of you.

[Kaitain(UK)]

Merry - one of the Gracies does that on Gracie in Action (1 or 2 - can't remember). I have a problem with it but I haven't tested it to see how valid a problem it is - hopefully you can help :)

By shooting the leg back behind you it seems to cause the head to surge forwards a few inches - I thought maybe there was a risk of getting chinned by exposing the head like that?

Anyone who wants a convincing (if disturbing) example of how badly things can go wrong on the ground should watch those videos - when Royce smacks the crap out of a 'kung fu' guy it's quite distressing because he'd deliberately humiliating him. I have no idea if the kung fu guy is any good or not as he gets taken down so quickly. It was enough to convince me to start BJJ as a supplement to Taiji.

[Former castleva]

This is not a direct answer,but if you get knocked down,you may already have passed out (pretty common sense,huh well)
If you get thrown/tripped etc. which you probably meant,you may get seriously hurt already while falling down.
This is why it is important to learn proper falling techniques (ukemi) From one you can avoid injuries and get back on your feet in no time.
:)

rogue,fine technique...and TKD? That´s nice.
That same technique is also found from kung-fu and can be called chin-na.
You use that to dislocate his knee,no problems after that.
Takes skill though.

[Mutant]

Prankster, i have no way of getting up from the ground once knocked down there.....as a matter of fact, I'm still down on the ground right now.....i've fallen and i can't get up!

Actually the methods you described sound much like techniques i learned in 5-Animals: Lower back off the ground with feet towards opponent kicking at knees, groin or targets of opporotunity to create distance, face guarded with hands elbow, then to side/hip, top leg mostly extended, bottom leg bent (looks kind of like flying sidekick position), then using a cresent-kick like movement with top leg to create momentum, followd immediatly by sidekick like movement with what was the bottom leg and is now the top leg in the opposite position. We'd use this movement to flip to other hip and/or turn &pivot to keep legs between you and opponent, the legs also scissors from this possition to takedown adversary. From this position we'd also roll backwards and around, ducking head and rolling over shoulder and kicking and pivoting around to steer. We'd practice rolling all over the place like this.
To get back up we would kick out legs forward and hop up or side-kick and push off with elbow/hand foward or even roll backward over shoulder, push off with hands and quickly stand up facing opponent. This would only be done, of course, when enough distance or distraction had been created to enable the getting up to be done relatively safely, without walking into a strike or being tackled.

[guohuen]

I use the techniques you discribed (from 5 animals) and also the rolling technique (from eskimo knifefighting). You can blend them together quite easily.

[PLCrane]

Several of these sound familiar. Our formal method of sitting and standing in class is close to what Merry described, minus the kick. The bent supporting leg pivots to the rear, and when you get up, you're in a front stance.

I've also done one where you do something like crescent kicks with both legs while you're lying on your back, and use the momentum to roll over sideways, and onto your feet.

A note on the forward roll - if you cross your legs, you can untwist when you stand up, and end up facing where you came from.

[LEGEND]

Same as Merry...Base Out.

[MonkeyBoy]

Fight from the floor.

[rubthebuddha]

wt style is similar to what you said, MP.

on ground, legs pointing toward attacker. one leg bent and foot on floor to scoot as needed if attacker comes to side, one leg up in kick chamber. when space has been created, kick that chambered leg out and use it's momentum to help you roll up.

you come up on one knee (usually the side that had the foot on the floor earlier is now knee on floor, as the kick extended out and plopped the foot on the ground). hands are up in typical wt guard and punching as needed. as quickly as possible, we get up off the ground.

as we all know, the wing chun ground game is a wee bit limited ;) . wt seems to have more ability down there, i'm guessing because we practice there a lot more (and yes, chi sau works on the ground -- when you're facing your opponent :) ). however, we're best on our feet, so we try to get up as quickly as possible so we can use our best skills. that, and we think it's a generally good idea to avoid the ground if at all possible, mainly because of those over-spoken reasons of multiple attackers, unsafe ground, etc. we'd just rather punch and fak sau and elbow, then go home and eat ice cream. :)

[No_Know]

"Seems like that might be a not half-bad idea in a group.

Your thoughts?"

A full roll is not recommended. A bowl roll--as a dropped bowl might move if spun or dropped on it's side; or coin roll in place--as a coin spun that eventually stops.

Arms hold thighs to chest at shins to knees. Rock as required 360°. Open to strike tops of feet or ankles or shins. Thrust kicks to knees and faces. Knees bent to not tell your reach. If you stay.


To get-up, sit wild West Indian style; scooch-up so that your feet are under you (r thighs); with the outside of your feet, press against the ground.

Backroll, legs high, press to a leaning handstand; extend one leg forward; land in stance of choice...

Shin to ground, calf to ground; press shin roll calf leg to flat footshift weight back; squatting; stand taller.

A sweeping motion of one leg then the other in an upward spiral get one to standing when done well enough.

[Ryu]

:confused:
I think I'd just quit fighting all together if someone began doing HALF of what No_know just described. :confused:

Ryu

[Sharky]

I see No Know has been watching too many Batman reruns.

[JusticeZero]

Queda de quatro: From something like a crab walk position on all fours laying back, pull one foot under the body to where the opposite hand was, while bringing said hand over, guarding the head, to where the foot was. Twist hips to come up into ginga.

Role: From the ground, with one foot - we'll say Blue (maybe you wore mismatched socks) tucked under you to a good degree, kick the Red foot out to the side, putting the Red hand down on the ground and covering your head with the Blue hand. Put the Blue hand on the ground, look under you, and step over your Red foot with your Blue foot. (You can add a kick here, if you need.) Put your Blue foot next to your Blue hand. Pick up both hands, bring them up to cover yourself, and twist through the hips to a forward facing ginga stance with your Red foot as your front leg.

I've also seen the basic kippup, but only to go into a handstand. Popping back forward leaves you far too vulnerable.

There's a few other movements that can be used to get to the feet, but those top two are the typical ones seen in Capoeira.

[No_Know]

I was merely addressing the sincere person's wonder. Besides, I No_Know that any non-animated Batman ever did a leg sweep following leg sweep to a spirialing funnel (tornado-like) to a standing position. No matter where you get it if it can be done work towards it. Basically, some-such some might say possiblly perhaps very good.

I do all four of those methods. Two of them half impressively. The others huffing (huff, huff...). Just checking that I could do that third mention. I can.

And I reviewed the feasibility of the rock on back, rocking strikes before I posted. It can be usefully mobile for group attacking you. And the hit zone is a radius perimeter at 360°

Thanks MerryPrankster, questions like these are about the only exercise I get besides breathing and vaccuum cleaning.

[Sharky]

you were a fu.cking retard when i left, and you still are.

[No_Know]

Cumming from you, that's almost like a compliment. Unless it means you love me.

[Brad Souders]

I stand up :) Merry what's up with Dave running a bjj tourney? Did he leave Lloyd's school or is it a Lloyd tourney also?

[Merryprankster]

It's an open tourney to whoever. PERFECT for first time competitors--round robin format last I checked, no belt divisions, lots of "new guy turnout." When's your tournament?

No-Know--the roll is NOT a full roll. It's a granby across the shoulders. It gives you tremendous directional control and the ability to dictate where you wind up with a great deal of precision. It also keeps your hips mobile and keeps your back from being exposed (it will also prevent you from getting flattened out on your stomach--ver'bad)

[No_Know]

I suspect I No_Know granby.

[No_Know]

I work with perhaps whatever. I notice my lazy-get-up resembled what I thought was some of what you were saying for how you get-up at the start of the thread. I re-read that five- step method. And re-re-read it.

I take it that the thrust forward is thrust the kick forward.to opponent's knee.

Standing behind the left leg.?.

I do the right fist (I don't rest on my palms anymore (for the most part)), left foot thing. I can see a swing through with the right leg. But I put the foot closer to my right fist. Fromthis tripod position I would think you could go into your opponent. Pushing off with my just placed right foot. For what you might refer to as a double leg shoot or tackle attempt. I would have no use for it but you might.

Also, from the tripod(same-side hand and fist closet), staying bent at the waist, pivot to the outside, at the right foot (foot nearest fist). You might be able to come up In your fight stance.

Pivoting on the ball of your foot might be best result.--Ernie Moore Jr.

Very whatever...

[HuangKaiVun]

My "Steps" set that I made for myself features:

rolling to either side
somersaulting off either shoulder, forward or backward
getting from the guard into the mount position - and back
swinging the legs to either side into a crouch
crawling away from the opponent when stomach is to the floor

and then some.

[The Willow Sword]

why dont you get your a$$ knocked on the ground and learn for yourself how to get back up.

best way to learn really.;)

MRTWS

[ewallace]

I'll take this one MP.

The Willow Sword...pay attention now:

"I was curious, how does your style address getting back up if you find yourself on the ground, with no control over the opponent, and him standing over you? Here's how we do it...."


...Come on now.

[The Willow Sword]

yawwnn,,,,, what happens when get knocked on your ass?
you are either unconsious or writhing in pain,,,,or you were a dunce and tripped in which case you just simply get the fuk back up. why does there have to be this long and drawn out explanation on how to get back up? jeeezuzzz H CHRIST.
this thread is definately not as good as mine.

:p :p :p :p :p



MRTWS-

[ewallace]

That's it? You just get back up? No cover or anything? I hope you aren't being serious.

[dre]

Merry:

Well, if he is standing and you are on the ground there are a lot of moves that you can apply from the ground. Mantis (that I do) has some odd groundwork (standing v ground or ground v standing) but nothing (that I know of) for ground v ground. So I'd actually be in more trouble if someone took me down to wrestle.

Much of the GvS stuff has to do with taking the inevitable kick to the side/head wherever that the standing guy will give you and taking him down with that.


As far as getting back up , we roll into a standing postion. Sometimes we roll into an immediate attack (i.e. Punch and leg hand from a roll on the ground).

[chingei]

Originally posted by The Willow Sword
yawwnn,,,,, what happens when get knocked on your ass?
you are either unconsious or writhing in pain,,

dang! your ass must be one giant exposed nerve. how do you sit?

[Merryprankster]

Willow, are you always such a jerk?

I spar in boxing 3 times a week. I spar BJJ 5 times a week. I spar vale tudo at least once a week. I'm intimately familiar with what I can do and what needs improvement.

I also get up the way I indicated, and no other way.

How does Shaolin Do address getting up, as that is your base style?

[Internal Boxer]

Well,
One of the methods we cover has been mentioned already, shin kick to gain distance then roll backwards for extra distance from opponent. I did once fall to the ground in a fight 2 years ago when I had one guy in a head lock, we both fell to the floor, I landed on top of him, he got the full bang of the pavement, and rolled back stood up, was about to kick him in the face while he was still down and did not notice his mate who launched a barrage of punches in my face, my own fault for just focusing on one guy and it was pretty dark, well thats my excuse!!

Another example I have seen is from systema, and it look pretty interesting, instead of rolling away you actually roll into your attacker like a bowling ball, and kick your legs up mid roll to catch his groin, knee, shin, anything. It sounds pretty weird, but it sort of berwilders the person standing up, cause I suppose subconsciously a person on the ground should not be a threat, but I think it relys on that "suprise" element, as a shock tactic. Not saying I would ever use it just food for thought.:)

[The Willow Sword]

and since i dont give a fuk about SD anymore dont ask me any questions regarding it and what they do. and NO SD is NOT my base style, i was doing stuff 8 yrs before i joined them.

MRTWS

[scotty1]

TWS, Shaolin Do is your base style? Man, I didn't know that.;)

"this thread is definately not as good as mine."

Is that because it's based in REALITY? :)

What I would do is crouch, covering my face with my arm and grabbing the guys ankle or lower trouser area with my other arm.

Then I would push my arm and head onto the top of the guys leg/hip and push, pulling the bottom of his leg up as I did so, thus
ha! reversing the situation.

Neato? Make senso?

[MightyB]

one foot at a time... I'm starting to get old, so sometimes I use my hands to help a little. If there's someone around, I may ask for help... you know, too much "lubricating the joints" (big internal CMA thing, mostly tai chi) in the ol' days causing some arthritis...





...water on the knee...





...where's my ibuprofen...









...tylenol...









...aspirin...


















...anybody got a good walking stick? That'd help...






...a good one...





...has to be sturdy...







...you know, to hold my weight when I use it to help push me off the floor...










...yeah, a good stick...

[No_Know]

No offense intended at suggesting that you might try the way I mentioned. Just so you Know~.

I've stated several of the ways I have to rise, if there is or is not an opponent. I hope it might have been interesting.

[Jzf_K]

Originally posted by No_Know
I hope it might have been interesting.





Nope






:p

[No_Know]

Well (a deep hole from which water is gotten) There's still hoping.

Good that you are enjoying being here one called, Jzf_K.

[Martial Joe]

Depends on how I land.

[Jzf_K]

Originally posted by No_Know

Good that you are enjoying being here one called, Jzf_K.




Yep





:p