Does anyone here have any interest/exposure to Lacan?

[Braden]

Fascinating stuff.

Just wondering.

[Braden]

In case anyone is interested/bored:

An introduction. Start here.
http://pratt.edu/~arch543p/help/Lacan.html

An introduction. Lacan and Freud.
http://www.colorado.edu/English/ENGL2012Klages/lacan.html

Incomplete intro to Lacanian concepts.
http://www3.memlane.com/pajerry/lacandef.htm

Lectures from a 'theories of mind' class on Lacan.
http://www.bham.ac.uk/english/bibliography/CurrentCourses/Freud/LacanLecture/lacan.htm
http://www.bham.ac.uk/english/bibliography/CurrentCourses/Freud/Lacan2Lecture/lacan.htm

Article on one Lacanian concept. Lots of discussion.
http://www.lacan.org/gaze/paint_gaze_fast.htm

[{i^(]

One of my absolute favorites! He is one of the guiding lights for my counselin' POV. (Another is Heidegger...)

Do you have a specific interest in him?

[Braden]

Very much!

I stumbled upon Lacan haphazardly through Freud, who I stumbled upon haphazardly through Ramachandran, who has noted that analytical psychotherapy provides useful models for working with a variety of classical neurological symptoms. Lacan utterly blew me away, and I'm working through Fink's two books on him now. I've just finished my hons. neuroscience, so my psychology background is in cognitive and neuro-. But I'm now trying to figure out the ideal way to get into analytical psychotherapy, formally and clinically. The current confusion regarding liscensing (or lack thereof) makes decision-making tough though.

[guohuen]

Good stuff. Thanks for introducing me to it. Sort of goes along with the works of Ericson, Jung and Piagett.

[{i^(]

Cognitive and neuro- is what they sell everyone on these days! I know just enough neuro to keep me out of trouble, but I do like it. For the most part, the practical thing is to stick to CBT.

I tend to use Lacan as a background for it all- there are few clients who are willing to take that kind of journey. But it's great, you know? He replaced the spurious biology of Freud with the linguistics of Saussure, thus making psychoanalysis a possible arena for the feminists. I think his most compelling revelation was that the unconscious is not only structured like language, but is thereby a public thing, not instinctual nor primordial.

This is kind of a problem for me, though: on the one hand, I truly like Lacanian thought and want to use it more actively, yet usually I'm 'forced' to use CBT- am I rationalist or empiricist? Is reality mediated by language or is a 'mind' a tabula rasa? Whatever!

Are you aiming for the ole academic career? Sounds like you're in Canada, by the degree title.

[{i^(]

at what you wrote.

I don't know if this will help or anything, but the 2000 past president of the APA was predicting a kind of split in the ranks of psychology (perhaps you remember?), saying basically, a shift to medicalization on one hand, and therapeutics on the other.

I can say, with a sense of finality, that this is true. The therapeutic end is dominated by former clients- and no wonder, they're being force-fed medications at a fast clip, often by force of law. Therapeutic-oriented counselors are less able to find employment. But if you are intending to go for private practice, you may have a better time surviving this shift. Currently, I'm unable to (yep- the licensing mess!), else I would. It's important to qualify for third-party payments, so you are very much at the mercy of the insurance co's, who insist on meds. Depressing!!!

There may be a shift, yet again, but I currently do not see it, in the official sphere of things anyhow. Perhaps a specialty like crisis counseling and EMDR is a good starting bet. Only an opinion, though!!!

Other things to look up: try Julie Kristeva and Luce Irigaray.
For the latter: http://www.colorado.edu/English/ENGL2012Klages/Irigaray.html
and
http://www.stfx.ca/people/mmoynagh/445/more-445/Concepts/luce_sub.html
(thats an ugly site, tho!)
and maybe:
http://www.erraticimpact.com/~feminism/html/women_irigaray_luce.htm

Hope that helps!

[Braden]

Hey. I appreciate the help.

I am indeed in Canada, and am looking to academia. Clinical psych programs are so hard to get into though. :( It's funny you mention EMDR... Ramachandran also 'discovered' that induced rapid eye movements (from vestibular stimulation; water into the ear canal) temporarily 'cure' the denial/neglect one may have following brain damage... I encountered EMDR recently and it struck me like an interesting version of the theme. Curiously, in old taoist alchemical texts, they talk about rolling the eyes in certain ways as a means to induce movements in the shen/spirit.

I understand, at least on some levels, the current woes regarding the viability of analytical psychotherapy treatment/profession. I've been reading up on something of interest in this regard; the Gifric group / 388 clinic in Quebec, who have used an approach centered on Lacanian psychotherapy to treat severe mental illness. If yourFrench is good, or you can stumble through Google's translator, they've got some pages up with performance data and such at www.gifric.com . They seem to have had remarkable success, yet at the same time have faced/are facing alot of resistance.

[Serpent]

Ha ha! Yeah! EMDR, eh?

Heh heh, yeah, I really like that too!




(Does anybody have any idea what these guys are talking about!?)

[{i^(]

Serpent: EMDR= eye movement desentization and reprogramming. It uses bilateral stimulation of the brain (through eye movements) to treat clients/patients, esp. for trauma. There is some evidence that this actually builds or changes the brain structures in some way.

Yes, this is quite off-topic from kung fu! I certainly did not expect to run across a discussion on this- but its delightful. To put it back on track: have you found interesting applications from psych. on your Kung Fu studies? I have.

Braden: I'll look at the gifric site- I've a little french, so it'll be fun. Another track to look into is comparing the findings of the neo Darwinist camp to the Lacanians- by these, I mean Dawkins, Susan Blackmore, Brodie, etc. And maybe the evolutionary psych's like David Buss. I've found that, coming from different directions, they seem to be saying things quite similar...

You could consider doing counseling psych instead of clinical. I would stay far away from MSW programs, BTW. They tend to be to constrained and wind up doing things you'd rather not be. (this was the particular 'hill I died on': I was labeling pre-school aged kids for future med. treatment. My point that, if a 4 y.o. was ill, then it's probably the parent at fault, was regarded as a kind of heresy.)

Anyhow, concentrate on acquiring skills, at first, to go along with your studies: hypnosis, EMDR, etc. They do make you more marketable. Then get the most face-to-face experience you can get as well, even by volunteering. If you'd like to know of one school in the US that does Lacanian work, Duquesne U. in Pittsburgh does. I do not know how well regarded it is internationally (though it cannot be bad) but a prof. told me to NOT go there, simply on the grounds that I would not be hired for academe in the US- altho they would LOVE to interview me...not in vogue, you see.

[dwid]

I'm applying to clinical graduate programs in the fall. The people I'm looking to work with are all loosely in the realm of cognitive behaviorists, so I guess my search isn't nearly as problematic as Bradens. I've found some interesting people in the Northwest who are applying some Eastern/Buddhist principles to their therapeutic models. That's kind of my orientation. Anyway, it's good to see some social scientists (or at least people headed that way) on here. By the way, Braden, you're right about how hard it is to get into a decent clinical program. I think the level of competition keeps a lot of good people out and lets a lot of people in who have the academic skills, but not the social ones, to be a good applied psychologist.

[{i^(]

Actually, I've found it all so disheartening that I'm prob'ly going to head to either experimental psych or something entirely different.
Meantime, I'm helping my dad out (he's old, and pretty ill w/emphysema, diabetes, etc.) and doing some volunteer things.

Maybe I can train psych patients in wing chun and make the psychiatrists jobs that much harder (LOL!). Seriously, tho, social skills are important, but they are supposed too train you in them. Sometimes working in the field can be boiled down to a social game, though- by this I mean a 'class' oriented one. It is worthwhile to examine that feature.....

Oh- "reprocessing" not "reprogramming". I've been chuckling over that gaff off and on all morning....