Silk-reeling and WC?

[fa_jing]

I was at a seminar over the weekend, with some cool Northern Kung fu folks. One of the topics touched upon were the Chen-style Taiji silk reeling exercises. The instructors were telling me that I could add the silk-reeling power generation into Wing Chun, in order to generate more power. It's things like making a circle with your shoulder in order to punch. I wonder if this is really the case. Now, I know some of you say Wing Chun has plenty of power, but has anyone really looked into this? To me the obvious drawbacks to putting silk-reeling movement into Wing Chun would be that it might slow down your actions, or it might telegraph or give away your intention. But with practice, perhaps this movement becomes smaller circles, more refined, less detectable? What do y'all think?

[yuanfen]

Fajing- I have explored wing chun and silk reeling from
some of the best in those two worlds.
Good wing chun and good chen style body mechanics are just different. Mixing those two will get you mediocre chen style and mediocre wing chun. On second thoughts maybe leung jan did use the hoola hoop? Nah.

[fa_jing]

Hey you know, everyone's convinced their way is the best. One of the instructors practiced a form of longfist that incorporated these exercises. But our stance is very different, for one thing. Anyway I know that many WC guys have taken up the study of Taiji, and from my readings, apparently this can improve some attributes like softness and sensitivity, but no one has come back saying hey we can get more power into our vertical fist punch by using such-and-such method - like you said, they're just too different and don't mix mechanically speaking.

Now I'm wondering if there are other internal exercises (other than SLT!!) that can be incorporated into Wing Chun. I recall reading of a lineage that incorporated kidney breathing exercises into their practice. You know the one where you hold a cup of tea out on your palm and make two circles one under your arm, one over your arm in one smooth motion without spilling the tea (or whatever liquid). Again I can see how this might help you relax your shoulders and back, but does it actually fit into the mechanical motion of Wing Chun?

[yuanfen]

fajing sez:Anyway I know that many WC guys have taken up the study of Taiji, and from my readings, apparently this can improve some attributes like softness and sensitivity
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You dont need taiji to develop softness and sensitivity-good wing chun practice will do it. You dont need snake creeps in the grass to uproot someone.... many ways to skin a cat. The wing chun way is as good as any.... I have found it to be empirically true...
not a memorized mantra. Now where is that cat?

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by wujidude

I read where some of Ken Chung's students also have explored Chen tai chi . . . maybe they can comment on it.
Hi Wujidude,

Ken Chung only does Wing Chun. Some of his students may have gone off to learn Taiji, but that's often because after learning Wing Chun well, they enjoy picking apart the average Taiji player. Ken respects the high hands in Taiji, Chen and Feng, and holds them as friends.

Cheers.

[fa_jing]

One similarity I noticed with the TaiJi silk reel-ing exercises is that the two shoulders move independantly of one another, or at least rotate in opposite directions. That's similar to Wing Chun, the shoulders are disengaged from one another.

[joy chaudhuri]

Re: Shoulder disengagement-Can be when needed but not necessarily all the time or even most of the time.

[stuartm]

Hi all,

Would have to agree with Joy on this one - trying to incorporate the two is tricky - you will end up spreading yourself too thinly over the two arts.

As someone who practised Tai Chi (short/long forms, martial element also) for a long time, the two are very different. There are great assets of tai chi that you can take to Wing Chun. Like i have sid on this forum before, the ability to root, body unit and the conception of real fa-jing will improve your wing chun. But at the end of the day you must dedicate yourself to the art you are studying. I have seen schools practice tui shou and then go straight into Chi sao - not a good idea.

I trained with my old tai chi instructor about 6 months ago. He picked up chi sau in minutes but the principles werent there. He was very round and i was very direct - this is not a criticism of him (the man kicks ass!) but the two are different. Similarly when i teach, i will listen to my students if they suggest techniques from other arts, but Wing Chun IMHO has to remain Wing Chun.

Best ..........Stuart

[dezhen2001]

At my school, we teach both wing chun and chen taijiquan... but never together and a clear distinction is made between the 2. I enjoy watching the taijiquan people training though, and is something i would like to try one day - but wing chun comes first (of course!) :)

david