weapons sparring

[apoweyn]

hey gang,

has anyone ever sparred with the padded weapons sold by companies like century (or whomever)?

i've done a lot of stick sparring before, but using the WEKAF padded jackets, metal-grill helmets, etc.

i'm wondering about using the padded sticks, longstaffs, etc. for two reasons: 1) not being part of a school right now, i'm not going to fork out for the full eskrima stickfighting armour and 2) i'm still thinking i'd like to be able to do a sparring format involving weapons and empty hand (which would be very difficult in the heavier stickfighting armour).

thoughts? personal experiences? wild speculation? analogies involving cows?

fire away.


stuart b.

[No_Know]

String and cloth and sturdy foam. Wrap up your sticks. Tie down the wrapping. Padded weapon. Can still hurt so the harder you gog perhaps the thicker the padding.

With foam cut out a thick strip like from couch couchin (old or new)~, long pointy to push through to otherside. Fit stick into foam. It should hold well and nno need for string and as thick as it's cut and shaped / edged as you like (the foam).

Something with which to start your morning off.

[The Willow Sword]

your local chapter of the nerf sword nerds that frequent parks,,dressed up as pseudo fantasy characters. or you can join a more prestigious faction of stick fighting nerds called the SCA. the Society for Creative Anachronism. these guys do sword play a little bit more serious than the nerf sword bunch.

note: to get into these clubs you must not have a girlfriend for no self respecting girlfriend will allow you to hang with these Noids.
plus if you are getting into the clubs you probably dont have a girlfriend anyway in which case you will be accepted as a squire.:D

Many respects,,The Willow Sword

[yenhoi]

I have sparred with padded sticks, dont know the brand, but they worked. We have also padded our own sticks.

Also, there is some sub-culture that fights nearly full contact, pretending to be knights and wizards and what not, using pvc pipe weapons, with foam padding and plenty of duck tape.

Stick + Foam + String + ducktape = padded sticks.

When sparring, we use just standard padded headgear, some people elect to wear chest guards, or other armor. Ive yet to go full-out withnon-padded sticks, but its sounding funner and funner, and is not to far from being a reality.

[KC Elbows]

Willow Sword,
Continue these rash attacks against the creme de la creme of geekdom, and we will have to notify the Chairman, Bill Gates.

Best hope you have a Mac.

[apoweyn]

yenhoi,

that's essentially what i had in mind, yeah.

i know about the SCA actually. they were pretty prominent where i went to college. it was the same bunch from the campus fencing club (with whom i trained periodically).

come to think of it, a guy in college tried to recruit me for his SCA 'mercenary group' when he first heard i was training in eskrima.

but i digress.

i'd reject SCA for two reasons: 1) i'm looking to simulate slightly more likely weapon choices (e.g., short blunt object, long blunt object, short sharp object, and perhaps flexible chain) rather than shields, swords, etc. 2) i'm looking to leave the option open for empty hand once you've been disarmed, before you retrieve a weapon, etc.


the willow sword,

thanks for not surprising me.


stuart b.

[The Willow Sword]

i would be the first to join the groups IF they allowed take downs and hand to hand. but they dont.

Many respects,,,The Willow Sword

[MonkeySlap Too]

About, oh I don't know, twelve years ago or so, I was staying at a friends house over new years. There was a big celebration on a the government campus that included the SCA. My friend introduced me and offered to 'let' me fight.

I didn't know the rules.

Frankly I don't think anything the SCA does would teach you anything valuable about fighting at all. I've had more difficult challenges against TKD players. They made me look like Batman in comparison. I think the SCA is more of a vigorous role playing / reinactment group than a sparring practice group.

So that's ruled out...

I recently got my hands on some 'No-Lie Blades' for free fighting with knives. Very cool stuff. You really can't practice stabbing so much, but they are a great training tool. Essentially Aluminium training blades with industrial felt that you coat with lipstick.

Great for 'active' practice. Just wear safety goggles!

[apoweyn]

yeah, i've been wondering about those too. thanks monkeyslap.

(man, i would never have predicted ever in my life having cause to type that sentence.)

:)

[dedalus]

I've practiced contact stickwork with padded arnis sticks and staffs... we basically rolled some of that rubber/foam plumber's insulation down the sticks, and that worked a treat (still hurt, but didn't crush or break fingers, ribs etc). Cheap too.

You've still gotta watch out for the ends, though :D

[No_Know]

Wrapping or sliding into foam leaving a lot at the ends should take care of the ends I was thinking. Also when I posted I considered that there would be few enough end attacks to worry about it.~


Another thought os padded gloves (with finger places), to cover the hand and fingers for when they get hit. A work glove or something creative.

[The Willow Sword]

take 1 inch PVC pipe and insert the pipe in to those pool worms that you can get. they then wrap cloth around them to make them look a bit more flashy.

man i wish i had that kind of creativity when i was 5. we just shot bottle rockets at each other then and tied roman candles to old broom handles and shot em at each other.

Many respects,,,The Willow Sword

[{i^(]

Apoweyn: you might want to check out the historical armed combat assoc. AKA the Assoc. for Rennaisance Martial Arts.

www.thehaca.com

Very Good articles there, and they do unarmed stuff....

[No_Know]

Whatever you pad, it is as heavy and still does hurt. Substitute your real wooden sticks for real lighter sticks.

[dre]

Apo - We did some of that in my Fencing class. It's fun to go all-out on someone without the fear of ripping off their head.

"i know about the SCA actually. they were pretty prominent where i went to college. it was the same bunch from the campus fencing club (with whom i trained periodically). "

I've heard about them too. Now don't yell at me when I say this (becuase it is the truth) : Most real Fencers look at the people who do SCA as sort of being like. . . um , like the wierd younger brother that the family locks in the Barn. In other words, no one talk about it, no one does it. It's Taboo.

[dedalus]

The best sport in the world is cricket, and cricket batsmen wear gloves to protect their fingers from very fast, very hard cricket balls... so if you can get hold of a pair of cricket gloves in the US, they'll protect your fingers (and your thumbs, and the backs of your hands) just fine :p

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by {i^(
Apoweyn: you might want to check out the historical armed combat assoc. AKA the Assoc. for Rennaisance Martial Arts.

www.thehaca.com

Very Good articles there, and they do unarmed stuff....


Good call! I've checked out thehaca.com before. Nice site for Western martial arts.


Stuart B.

[apoweyn]

p.s. h.p. lovecraft is perhaps my favorite author.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by dre
Apo - We did some of that in my Fencing class. It's fun to go all-out on someone without the fear of ripping off their head.

"i know about the SCA actually. they were pretty prominent where i went to college. it was the same bunch from the campus fencing club (with whom i trained periodically). "

I've heard about them too. Now don't yell at me when I say this (becuase it is the truth) : Most real Fencers look at the people who do SCA as sort of being like. . . um , like the wierd younger brother that the family locks in the Barn. In other words, no one talk about it, no one does it. It's Taboo.


oh, i'm not going to yell at you for that, my friend. this fencing club very clearly fell into the SCA camp rather than the strictly sportive fencing camp. we did practice sportive fencing. but as i was coming from an eskrima perspective, i always accidentally stepped off of the line and came in on an angle. sportive fencers would've been put off. these guys, on the other hand, were into it.

i wasn't really looking to learn fencing for fencing's sake (though it is a very cool discipline). i was trying to look at eskrima from another angle. and since spanish fencing played a fairly profound part in eskrima's evolution, it seemed like a good idea. particularly the saber fencing, which allows thrusts AND slashes (though only above the belt).

the other exercise we did was 'duello.' bit like 'monty python and the holy grail.' get hit in the arm, you can't use that arm anymore. get hit in the leg, you gotta sit down. etc. you could bring your empty hand (protected by a sock, of all things) into play as well, which was a blast. i really enjoyed duello because it was the closest to the eskrima practice i'd done, but with blades rather than sticks. (not really blades, obviously, but still it put the idea in your head that any contact was BAD.)

but, yeah, i'm sure serious fencers would have looked down on it. especially the part where these guys wanted to recreate 'highlander' on campus. that's where i drew the line.


stuart b.

[Leto]

Heyyyyy...nothing wrong with being a nerf sword nerd! *lol* we never dressed up as anything...we just liked to duel, and went to the park where there was space. Would do 'bear pit' rounds...one on one matches where the winner would stay in until he was defeated, and could change weapons between matches if he wanted to. We made PVC pipe weapons - swords of various sizes and styles, shields, spears, daggers. Used the 'duello' rules for the most part, any blow to the torso or head was a kill...arm struck was useless, leg struck you could only pivot in place, or go to your knee. Wounds carried over into the next match, for the winner. It was all fun.
I also practiced kendo for a bit, while I was in Okinawa. I didn't own the armor (it's really expensive), so practicing/sparring outside of class we'd just go less than full power/contact. Easier said than done. Shinai hurt a bit more than the PVC pipe and foam...so we would avoid head contact, and wear padded gloves. Sparring without any armor puts the fear of bamboo into you, I can tell you that, even when you're not trying to go full power.

I have used those foam padded weapons that are sold by various distributors. The black foam katanas looked really cool, so we picked up a pair. But they are made of really light wood, after a couple full contact blows with them they were broken. I have seen the padded staffs made of the same stuff. Very light and flimsy. I wouldn't use them for sparring (unless it is for empty hand versus a staff). The weapons hand made out of PVC and foam were sturdier, heavier, and very rarely broke, even going full power. The only downside is they don't look as good, you need to use your imagination a little more. :) But for people with some training, it is a fun way to test your weapon skills without having to seriously injure anybody, or invest in lots of expensive armor and padding.

[GeneChing]

There are actually formalized weapons sparring systems in ASia. Japan has Sports Chanbara, which was formalized in a book titled Samurai Sport by Tetsundo Tanabe in 1997. There is a group in So Cal affiliated with them - check out www.samuraisports.com. Most if this is derivative of Kendo and Naginata, which has more traditional methods of sparring against each other.

Now for the more relevent one - there is a growing movement in China for formalized weapons sparring. A Rules system has already been standardized and safety weapons are developed - all is in the process of refinement.

I just finished translating an interview with one of it's major advocates. But of course, you'll have to check out our next issue to find out more. That would be our NOV DEC 2002 issue, which is just about to go to press, and will be available in Oct. Until then, hold your breath... :D

[No_Know]

Now we can read it and use qigong to hold our breath (or breathe very slowly) until the issue is out in October.

The issue is ouuuuut...exhhhhaaaaaaaaale. Sink your weight into your right foot; feet together; stand; shake-out your limbs, massage your hands...walk around...Well done!

[GeneChing]

no_know, I wouldn't have it any other way.:p

[apoweyn]

hey gene,

thanks for the information. i'd forgotten about chanbara.


stuart b.

[Kaitain(UK)]

my name is Paul and I do Live Role-Playing - please forgive me

in fact I'm off tomorrow until Monday running around in a field, dressed up like a 'tard hitting people - and I'm not ashamed anymore :)

completely useless for any sort of weapon skills - a basic 6 point weave beats everyone and when you're really in trouble you reverse it :)

I go because I like dressing up in armour :)

that and I'm married with 3 kids so it's the only time I get to hang out with my friends for 5 days - we have one uber-geek in our crew, the rest of us are all married... most of us do MA as well. Admittedly two of them do ninpo but it doesn't mean they have ninja fantasies - I can guarantee one of them doesn't. The other one wear's tabi.

Willow - just because the rules don't allow grappling doesn't mean you can't blag it - weapon strips are easily done and you can 'accidentally' hook arms and legs. The only time I got in trouble was for knocking someone out with a staff ('accidentally' used my waist to whip it)

http://www.cloak-dagger.net/frames.asp if you want to see the weapons :)

My apologies for being such a sad-case - at least I don't tabletop!

[apoweyn]

[sigh] i do tabletop.

[Kaitain(UK)]

I had to stop about 4 years ago when it became a choice between an extra night of training a week or tabletop

used to be a good laugh though - roleplayer humour ownz :)

thwip

[apoweyn]

:)

yeah, balancing two such involved hobbies, full-time work, part-time school, and a relationship is a real trick.


stuart b.

[HuangKaiVun]

In my training, weapons are an everyday part of the curriculum.

What I consider "weapons" are different from traditional kung fu weapons. For example, I use a beach ball in my training. It helps teach proper posture and is very hard to spar against. I also use a koosh ball to play catch with (a jazz dance training tool).

Basically, anything in my environment I hope to be able to use (and fight against) as a weapon.

[apoweyn]

but surely you don't train to fight using a beach ball? or a koosh ball?

maybe you do. maybe i'm missing something. if so, by all means, fill me in.

cheers.


stuart b.

[HuangKaiVun]

A beach ball probably won't be a weapon, but it's similar to the box you might be carrying.

Also, the beach ball is "fleshlike" in a way. I use it in grappling exercises to simulate a guy coming at you relentlessly.

A koosh ball won't be thrown at an opponent, but a coin or ball might be. And beware - it might be thrown at you as well.


Whatever the circumstances, the reflexes that are involved in using such items are more important than the items themselves.