BT's Pakua

[rcohen]

Let's go ALL real. Be a MAN not a cry'n BIT** you got something to prove. Show it with some action.

Enter a NHB match, enter a UCF, enter king of the cage. Step up and back up that BIG mouth. Oh yeah your skills are too deadly. You've got all that real skill and can't show it. Please.

All your talk'n sounds the same. Tired of it. whine! cry! KEEP IT REAL...BULL SHI* All your talk proves you've got nothin just like all the other IMAs on this sorry board. Out of shape wanna be fighters. Just cry cry cry about who has real skill. Show all this "real" skill. You enter a real competition and you hit'n dirt and tap'n out just like all the other sorry kung fu fighters.

You've never faught anybody real...give me a break.

When I see BT vs. old Sharmrock, or BT vs. Gracie then you got props. All i see is BT vs. Keyboard fighter 1-1000. BT vs grandpa. PLEASE. You'll end up like that loser kungfu vs MMA clip.

blah blah

[blacktaoist]

What I find funny is how you park students keep coming up with new names to post as. You guys are a ****ing joke.


When I get free time, I will step down to you guys schools before the end of this month, and I want to see this high level skill you fake mother****ers be talking about.


See you mother****ers soon, thats my mother****ing word, to my dead grandfather.

[Brad]

I'd just like to add that you can buy a video of BT fighting against a pro(it is a pro right?) San Shou fighter off his website. Haven't seen it myself yet. I keep sayin I'm going to buy it, but I keep running out of money :-P

[Brad]

Hey bt, I think this is just another bjj troll and has nothing to do with parks students, lol. Maybe it's Ralek's new incarnation :D

[count]

I've seen it. It's a pleasure to see someone using their skills and not resorting to kickboxing under the pressure at a profesional level. You should buy it. This loser joined the forum just for this. What a joke. And he's posting the same $hit all over. How about sharing some of your vid's with us "sorry board" IMA's troll? Where can we see you in action?

[blacktaoist]

Count, Brad,

I have to step down to one of Parks school. Because for one I want to see for myself these high level skills, that many people are always posting on KFO, that park and his top students are so powerful.


Me going to fight them have nothing to do with me being upset. Because to tell you the truth I can careless what these guys said or anybody say about me. All theses fool know about me is what I post on KFO or what I put on my web site. If they think I know only Ba Gua Zhang, well they are about to find out the hard way this month.

I'm a martial artist, and I want to see just how good these guys are with their Ba Gua Zhang.

I'm just Tired of all this talk, I feel if these guys don't want to step up, then what the hell I will step up to find out the truth about park's combat method.



Time for games is over.

[denali]

I have nothing to do with Park or Bagua for that matter, but what is this crusade all about?
How does insulting people over the internet benefit martial arts?

[blacktaoist]

By the way rcohen,

If you are not a park student, then please forgive me.

Now let me get to the point. So you practice Bjj or the so called king of the cage style of fighting. So you think internal martial artist can't fight, and we are all talk, true some are.

But hey, I not talking Bull$hit, but you say I am. Ok fine. Tell you what,you are posting everywhere from what I hear, how you are a Pro fighter I guess.

Why don't you come to my Classmate Ba Gua event this sept, 28, 2002. Show me yourself, just how I'm all talk and an internal martial art Out of shape wanna be fighter.

Ok. Fine, I'm happy you feel that way, Now will you come to maoshan even, there will be no fee $for you thats my word. I love to freefight you, and you can even try that Bjj $hit I'm all game.

I love to fight one of you guys, Because I just don't see much in what you guys do. Ba Gua Zhang method of fighting is just to deep for the Bull$hit you may be practicing, But hey, there I go talking to much, I don't want to do that.

So why don't me and you just get it on, full everything go.

Let me know what's up, I hope you are not just talking $hit.

[txwingchun]

Originally posted by Brad
I'd just like to add that you can buy a video of BT fighting against a pro(it is a pro right?) San Shou fighter off his website. Haven't seen it myself yet. I keep sayin I'm going to buy it, but I keep running out of money :-P

What's the website I'd let to see the video too.

[Brad]

http://www.blacktaoist.com

[planetwc]

Black Taoist,

What are you going to do, if after you roll up on said Park Bagua schools, throw down your challenge and no student takes you up on it?

What if none of the students are interested in fighting you?

If none of his guys are pro fighters, what is in it for them to take some physical damage from you in this day and age?

Show up to their jobs all busted up?

Unless some of his guys have a fighter's mindset and streetfighing background why go down that route?

What's the percentage for them?

Are you going to challenge Park himself and see if his organization produces a student to fight you?

What if they decide to ignore you?

[maoshan]

rcohen

Fight someone for real? I don't know where you've been but that's all we do. I you don't come to us then we can bring it to you. Event's like UFC Are no proving ground. there's still rules. But fine, lets stay in that vain. If he's not keeping it real, as is his slogon, then why don't you show him what is real. Stop poping **** from behind your PC.
Out of shape? LOL,LOL,LOL
Man, bring your ass and cut the bull****. You write these statments like you know this personally. Bring the noise and stop making it. if this is all bull**** and all talk prove it. What, are angry with his success? Sounds personel to me. stop being a sucker and train your lazy ass. then you won't feel so angry with someone elses achivements.

denali,

I'll answer your two questions,

The crusade began with trying to promote bagua as a true martial art. and not some new wave health fade or some useless exercise in futility against any other art. Park it supposed to be teaching Bagua. We met a lot of parks students here on KFO, primarily in opposition. The things they presented were suspect and we blew them out of the water. now between my brother and myself, he's a bit more aggressive and opininated in his expression. a lot don't like it. TISK, They got thier card pulled and now thier mad. TOO BAD.
anyway, since this began 6 of parks student have been beat at two different points. The first 3 came to test the waters, and they used pushhands as the tool. It was discovered that they had no bridge, which means no upperbody linkage nor did they have sensitivity training. Red flages went up for us. In an internal Martial art? Impossible! but yet this is true. Alright, time marches on and parks people are still posting like thier masters and experts and such. and because they don't know what thier talking about because they don't know how to fight, We continuously tore up thier points. next, I guess they had enough and decided to try and jump my brother. Now , this was for real, and they still got beat with little effert. My brother called me when he got home and LOL as he described the incident. but the point is they had the nerve to attack in such a foul nature because we blew thier cover. YOUR WAK! Except it and learn some true methods. So from that time until now there's just been heat. the newest act has taken the form of the Article by a park student talking about a so-called Ba Bu Kao BU Qi Gong, which is totally bogus for if such a qi gong existed it would be in at lest one other branch of the Bagua system. it's totally unheard of.
All Bagua practitioners train the stepping from the word go. What's going on? He claim's to be of the Yin Branches, We do Yin as Well. His yin looks like no Yin we have ever seen. We haven't seen it all, but we've seen a lot. and what we've seen of his system it is not Yin style. In fact from the videos and books, nothing is related to Yin, maybe Cheng but not Yin.


The insults are a result of the physical attack. and how does it benifit the martial arts? from a verbal perspective those that read beyond all the dissin, will see a sound base from which our points are made. and the shallowness of thiers. thus giving the perspective student something to gadge by. lets them not get caught up in all the fluff that exist out there. shape no essence.

planetwc

Look, either park is a martial artist or he's a businessman.
If he's a businessman then his goal is to make money by giving people a false sense of security. just enough to make them think that they are doing something. I'm not saying that he shouldn't get paid for teaching for his time but it should be quality instruction. the people we've met thus far had nothing. Some of them haveing trained in his system for sometime on the order of years in some cases, and have nothing to show for it. As far as I'm concerned I"m insulted. Park has students all over the world now and if they all know the same thing as we have observed here, He's doing Ba-Gua a terrible wrong.

and just so you know, for all the what if's you asked. we are not bullies. We train hard core but not to be bullies. If no one fights fine. but that atkes me to your point about the mind set.
What the hell are you learning martial arts for? the primarary reason is to defend your self. being apart of a martial arts school, you should be able to do that. If you can't, get your money back.

Maoshan

[Spirit Writer]

I would have to agree with all of your points, especially the one above. But its the way that you guys make them. Sounds like your more into promoting yourself then Ba Gua. Why? Because you make it sound like you have some secret method. Because everyone else's suck, according to you. Now, true mastery is being able to say, what I have is a piece of cake, if I can do it you can do it, let me show you how. That's who I would want to learn from, that is who I would be drawn too.
There are fakes throughout all martial arts. If this is really your concern, to wake these guys up, the two of you will be very busy. Forget Ba Gua, start with Tiger Schulman. With that chain alone you guys can spend a few years showing them what is what. Most MA don't even know what Ba Gua is. Many who look for it already have experience and should be able to judge for themselves. Better to just say it, "I'm out to make a name for myself, now who can beat me." And then its up to someone to come beat you. Until then, you're the man.

[blacktaoist]

Spirit Writer

Man you need to let $hit be.


Sounds like your more into promoting yourself then Ba Gua. Why? Because you make it sound like you have some secret method. Because everyone else's suck, according to you. Now, true mastery is being able to say, what I have is a piece of cake, if I can do it you can do it, let me show you how. That's who I would want to learn from, that is who I would be drawn too.


First of all, I myself don't have to go promoting myself or Ba Gua Zhang. For one I'm not looking for Students up here. 2. you don't see me promoting my Web Site or my Ba Gua teachers " LIKE SO MANY UP HERE ARE DOING."

3. I never said or post anything close to saying I have some secret method. Also I never said I was the best Ba Gua fighter in the world, to think that I would be a fool. But like all ways you people up here always making $hit up. Can any of you up here show me any post that where I claim to be so bad, I have this Ba gua secret method. Show me one post on KFO that where I'm advertising for students or what I teach .

You can't. Why Because I don't care about teaching anyone up here. I have to many students in my community that I teach martial Arts to that I can't deal with somethings, so there is no need for me to do and advertising.

But you will see many post reply, where I tell people up here on KFO my opinion about some of the Ba Gua Zhang teachers that are teaching BULL$HIT UNPRACTICAL METHODS OF BA GUA ZHANG.

AMATEURS, RENOWNED TO THE WORLD AS BA GUA MASTERS. WHAT A JOKE. BUT THE JOKE IS ON THE FOOLS PAYING ALL THEIR MANY TO THESES FAKES THINKING THEY ARE LEARNING REAL BA GUA ZHANG.

Real BA Gua Zhang is about Combat. And if you meet a Ba Gua Zhang practitioner, they should be able to utilize it in any situation. Thats just the bottom line.

But all you will hear is Talk, talk , talk, talk, nothing wrong with talking, but when its time for action, most can't utilize their Ba Gua Zhang to back up what their was saying.

Bottom line, is I don't mind sparring any Martial Artist, Ba Gua Zhang have not to with who I am as a person, its just the method I love to apply in kicking Ass. Fighting for me is a challenge there is nothing to fear, but only to explore.

If I win, I win, If I get beat down so what, I got my ass kick many times before, by many of my martial art teachers and older martial brothers. So I been in that situation before, Nothing new to me.

I'm willing to put my body on the line, to see if a person that claims to be a Ba Gua Zhang is Good. Not just Park Bok Nam, but any Ba Gua Zhang master that is known , or world -renowned. My actions have nothing to do with me thinking I'm the best. My actions are this way because, I want nothing but the best. And so far all I see is BULL$HIT in the air.

Today all you will see is Ba Gua Zhang Forms perform by teachers and students that can't even apply the techniues in a real situation.

Even on KFO, just look at most of the threads. Only a few threads are talking about something practical about Ba Gua Zhang. But most of the time all you see is mother****ers talking about this Ba Gua lineage, that Ba Gua lineage...ect...ect...ect

And the stupid $hit about the whole thing is most of the guys posting all this Lineage bull, don't know much about they own Style of Ba Gua Zhang. That's what I call "STUPIDITY."

most of these Lineage Ba Gua practitiners never been to China or Taiwan, but they act like they have so much knowledge, then when you ask these people some questions , they never give you a answer conforming to facts or truth. Why? Because most of these individuals never put in their own time in learning the truth for theirself about the many characteristics of different styles of Ba Gua Zhang. So in the end you get fools that think they are practicing a particular style of Ba Gua Zhang.

So now you have your fake ba gua Zhang fighters and your no style Characteristics Ba Gua form players. I say Ba Gua form players, because thats what Most Ba Gua Zhang is all about to today, Lineage heads and Form heads. And the My teacher have the real Ba Gua lineage information, anybody other then my Ba Gua teacher lineage informatin is Bull$hit.

These kinds of people I call Ba Gua mental slaves, a person totally unaware that their mind is shackled and their capacity for thought is limited by those who control access to knowledge of the past. (Ba Gua Student Slave ) These kinds of people always think their teachers is right, when even wrong. these kinds of people will never learn how to utilize Ba Gua Zhang in a freestyle way in combat, because first they must learn to think for themself.

So in Ba Gua Zhang it all come down to who you are.

talker, form palyer, lineage master, I-Ching head, fake, Ba Gua Martial artist.

I'm a Martial artist, willing to spar any one, have nothing to do with me thinking I'm bad. I look for the best and I will take no less.

I'm a Ba Gua martial artist that all to it.

Peace.
Black Taoist
(Lao Qiang)

[maoshan]

Spirit Writer,

You need to expand your expand your mind in terms of interpretation of what you read.
While we can be harsh in our expression, we've never made such claims. It should be ovious that the info we post comes from years of training. Our passion drives us.
How can people write on topics they have no experiance in. For example: There is a distinct differance in the way the same technique is executed between one who stands for 15 min and one who stands for an hour. and those people are the only ones with the true ability to comment on that topic.
Most Internal practitioners in the west, don't stand or walk the circle beyond 15 min. and yet, they would debate with us. It's not simply about ego here.
My concern is for the true seeker, sincere in that search, gathering a lot of false Info. or not quite on point, which is enough to send you a thousand miles off course.
I have been doing Bagua longer and most likly before most even heard of it.

And for your Info,
It was with the Karate guys that we started with in the early years of our push. hell, forget bagua, those guys had a bad image of Kung Fu period. Me and Novell did a lot to change that attitude around the NY area.

We don't tell people to come to us for superior training and all that, but what we hope to do is to at lest get them to look for themselves. There are some bad boys in NY right now. We are not the only game in town. The concern is the image and how it is percieved.

maoshan

[Spirit Writer]

These last two are the best two posts you guys have ever laid down. Well said.

[Justa Man]

too bad they love to lie about things to prove their cause.

[Walter Joyce]

BT and Maoshan,

I agree with SW about the high quality of your last posts. Without knowing the history of the attacks and meetings, your bellicose posts were hard to reconcile with your claimed skills. Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I still believe that martial artists should be humble, especially when skilled.

However, after learning that your posts were part of an ongoing RL battle, and not just words, it was a lot easier to understand. Not that either of you (BT or Maoshan) need me to understand, or my approval.

I always agreed with your approach to Ba Gua, it is a fighting art first and foremost, and should be trained as such. That aspect of your posts I never disagreed with.

On a side note, I would like to try and make the upcoming tournament, but will have to see. I have a family, and the attendant responsibilities.

Regards,
Walter

p.s. if you guys ever want an editor, ;) what you have to say shouldn't be lost or miscontrued because of the way you write. Its the way you think that counts, and you seem to have that part down. :cool:

[Stai-Nyce]

J/M
Can you please expound on your knowledge of their lies.

you can't horde info like that!

[Justa Man]

No I can't. Would it matter anyway? Anyone can lie no matter how skilled, or well spoken or educated they seem on this board.

People who are secure in what they know is truth don't need to strive very hard to prove it.

Kiddies on this board love sensationalism, love stories, and love gossip. I'm not going to feed it. Certain people do a great job of doing that without my help.

No more words from me.
Say what you will and keep the flame strong.

[blacktaoist]

Justa Man


No I can't. Would it matter anyway? Anyone can lie no matter how skilled, or well spoken or educated they seem on this board.

You can't answer Stai-Nyce question,because for one you don't know me, and two I have nothing to lie about. You claim I'm lying. Ok tell me and everybody up here know what I'm lying about. What's the matter you don't like what I said about your teacher Park Ba Gua method.

Now if anybody is lying to people (books and articles)about things to prove their cause Its Park. Not me or my classmate. We already prove he was lying a few times. But to tell you the truth I can careless what you think Justa Man or about what Park' Bok Nam is doing. I never did.

But if people ask me question about his method, After all this is a talk forum right? I'm going to tell them my true opinion, base on my experience encountering with many that train in his method. And like I said the people I met that train in his method was $hit. Truth is truth have nothing to do with lying.

Like I said before, I'm willing to back up my words, are you? I'll let my palms do the talking and my feet do the walking. (stepping and Kicking ass to the best of my skill level) Like I said I don't care about Park or his style, the bottom line is I spar any of these so called Renowned Ba Gua Zhang masters. Why? Because thats just how I get down.

So as far all these claims of park and other renowned Ba Gua Zhang masters being so high level and all, all that $hit is a Myth in my eyes. But I'm willing to spar any of these Masters to see and explore better Ba Gua techniques of kicking ass. And if I get my ass kick why try to test them, then its all good. The best way to learn a Ba Gua technique is to feel some one applying it on you. (getting your ass kick feeling that contact is what its all about.)

I'm all for getting my ass kick by a Ba gua Master, if thats what they are. And the best why to find out if some one is good, is sparring them. Know loking at forms and one step fighting techniques. My disposition is nothing new, many Ba Gua Zhang Masters would fight all the time to demonstrate their fighting skill.

Yin Fu, Cheng T'ing Hua, Ma Wei Chi, Ma Kuei, and even Cheng Yu Lung...ect...ect..ect.. All of these Ba Gua Zhang practitioners taught the old ways(real combat) They didn't practice Ba Gua as a flowery martial art. Theses mother****ers was straight up killers. (I know right now they looking down , and saying look at these fools reading about us and the I-ching. Thats not the way , they should be practicing and freefighting. What Fools.)

If we are giong to talk about Ba Gua Master of the past, if you step to them and wanted to test their skills, these Ba gua Masters was all game. What Ba Gua Master today that is World-Renowned can put mother****ers on they ass like these past masters. Not Many."

But you have some that claim they can, so I see no problem in me finding out. But you have people up here On KFO that see it as a problem, because they themself don't have what it takes, or any belief in their own Ba Gua Zhang fighting Skills. Why? because they don't practice Ba Gua zhang for real, they always be a slave of FEAR."

Because of this fear, they will continue to believe in a falsehood because they was afraid to evaluate the other person skill Level that is in question.

Bottom line is, most Ba Gua people fear instability, therefore it is natural for them to resist the destruction of their old belief system until they have an acceptable belief system to replace the old one.

But this all come down to who you are, just like I said before. Most Ba gua Zhang in my opinion is $hit, but thats just my opinion.

Other styles of martial arts, have many good fighters from their fighting systems, that will put up if you ask to test their skills. But in Ba Gua zhang, not many will put up, because most are just living in a imaginary world of Ba gua mythology I-Ching trigram symbol fighting. What a joke when I hear these individuals post this information as Ba Gua knowledge for fighting. Then many you wonder why other Chinese martial artist see the internal methods as a joke.

Because what they see is fake mother****ers talking about nothing of any practical use. No one wants to hear about lineage, but thats all you see most of the time up here on KFO. Fake Lineage heads up here on KFO talking like they have real knowledge. Whats fascinating about the whole thing is these dumb ass's are not even of chinese descent, but they talk about past Ba gua Zhang masters as if they were their ancestors or one of they own family. And they say I look at to many kung fu movies.

If anyone need to stop looking at kung Fu moves, its all these Ba gua history Lineage heads UP HERE ON KFO. they should make a Ba Gua movie, because all they good for is telling a good story about a past BA Gua Master, that most of the time the information on these Ba Gua master skill level is not conforming to fact or truth. Storys of mother****ers jump in the air ten feet..light skill, mother****ers get hit and fly back ten feet,,,,ect...ect...ect.. THE BA GUA GREAT MYTH OF HIGH LEVEL SKILL, I HAVE NOT MET ONE TEACHER THAT CAN DO ANY SUPER POWER BA GUA $HIT YET. BUT ACCORDING TO BA GUA LEGEND MANY OF THE BA GUA MASTER COULD DO SOME EXTRAORDINARY $HIT."

But today all you see is fakes trying to act like they are so real with their Ba Gua Zhang. They all try to act like that have the most knowledge of ba Gua Zhang or their teacher is the best, even if they themself never crosshands with the man. These individuals think, that having knowledge of past ba Gua masters lineage , knowledge of I-ching is going to make them high level fighters.

Just take a look up here on KFO, and you see I tell you no lie. All you hear is this past Ba Gua said this , that past Ba Gua master Skill was fierce...ect...ect....ect.

But not one of these posters are talking about anything practical. Many of them worship some renowned Ba Gua Zhang teachers like they are God of something. And some of the Ba Gua Zhang teachers these poster, have post information about on KFO I met, and I tell you there is nothing exceptional about some of these Ba Gua teachers some of the posters are talking about.

But hey, thats how the game is play in the 2002 world of Ba Gua zhang. Keep $hit real fake.

But in the end, Nothing stay the same , even the fake must change to real. Soon or later, people are going to want the real thing, its just a matter of time.

You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time.

[Stai-Nyce]

you say B/T and Maoshan lie $%!# i wanna know.
you got dirt dish it.
but don't bull$hit the board like you keeping Secret Squirrel information.

I hate people with little rap quotes like that $hit makes you real.
You say $hit be prepared to back it up.


:rolleyes:

[Brad]

Kiddies on this board love sensationalism, love stories, and love gossip. I'm not going to feed it. Certain people do a great job of doing that without my help.

You just did feed it.


too bad they love to lie about things to prove their cause

It's pretty rediculous to call someone a liar without anything to back it up, then claiming you're taking the high road.

[SevenStar]

Question...

I don't really know what all the hate is about between you and Park's camps, But since you will spar anyone, why not invite Park himself to your tourney? That would settle alot more than beating a few of his students. If I wanted to prove that chen taiji was ineffective, I wouldn't challenge one of his schools, I'd challenge either Chen or his son. If I wanted to prove shuai chiao was ineffective, I'd go after david lin or john wang - you get the point.

[blacktaoist]

Man I said what I have to say, So there is no need for me to keep going over this Bull$hit about Park. They now where to find me. Thats all to it. sept 28 2002. I be there.


As for david lin, man are you for real.

[maoshan]

Justa man,

Another sucker with no face. Who are you man? And what lies have we told? Talk about grasping at straws.
You Call us liers, yet you and yours hide behind your PC"s and post all kinds of fantastic **** about yourselves and your chosen diety. We've always proven our ****, both physically and historically. You just proved how foul you and your crew are.

You have nothing left to fall back on so you call us liers and try and play it off like all we've been about is a fallicy.
Our security is just fine my man. Secure in the fact that what we are learning is real and exact.
Also we wern't trying to prove it to y'all at all, we just stated facts. It was your people who wanted proff of what we were talking about. and they got it. can't handle it.
Task, Sucks to be you!


Walter Joyce,

(I still believe that martial artists should be humble, especially when skilled)

Before I begin on this Thanks for your comments.
Humility is a matter of degree.
If I understand where your comming from the humility of which you speak is for the practitioner who never plans to use it beyond a self-defense situation. That's cool, there have been plenty of high level practitioners that lived that way and for them it was truly personal. but thats one type of man.
My brother and I live in the world of Martial arts and in that world you have to put up or shut up. as can be seen from my brothers post, you can't get experiance being a wall flower.
We're in the thick of it. mastery is our goal. This is no hobby for us. Our humility is researved for those who have earned it, namely
our teachers and masters that endured the hardship of true training and made it and are here now to pass it on. as we too in turn will pass it on.
We've been marked with this brand because we chose to relate our own abilities in making our points. What you need to understand is that we are still learning. What we've got is nothing yet compared to what we want.
What we've been doing is trying to give those that really want to learn a few keys to getting there. It's not our fault these fools don't train, But they get offended that we do. Go look in the mirror.
Because we will fight and stand behind our contention we are not humble I disagree with that. but it's your opinion. So be it.

But back to Justa man and a point my brother made me think of in his post.
About Lineage:
For those that ride the lineage boat, Check this out,
You want to make these claims about your lineage, O.K.
Do you represent the master of your lineage? Are you keeping his standard? If not shut up. Number one, he's turning in his grave.
two, you need to be ashamed of yourself. My brother and I Represent and it shows. What have you got? Unless your training hard you need to keep your lineage to your self. because you diss the Master as well as your self by yelling to the universe you are of such and such lineage.


SevenStar,

(I don't really know what all the hate is about between you and Park's camps,)

Yes you do. I mean Unless you just went down to what we said, and that doesn't make any sense, How do you know what's going on? I've already written in three different threads what the problem is and I'm not going to repeat it suffice to say that they started it, and we give better then we get.

As far as Park goes,
Park is fully aware of whats going on, 6 of his students were beaten terribly as if they had never learned Martial Arts before and thats bad considering that some of them have been learning for years. It's bad for his rep. Novell is a student now, what's your point?
and David Lin? We've already been there. come again.

Maoshan

[count]

but there are 2 David Lin's. I don't think sevenstar means the same one you guys do.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by maoshan



SevenStar,

(I don't really know what all the hate is about between you and Park's camps,)

Yes you do. I mean Unless you just went down to what we said, and that doesn't make any sense, How do you know what's going on? I've already written in three different threads what the problem is and I'm not going to repeat it suffice to say that they started it, and we give better then we get.



Actually, I don't know about it. I was in a chat room one night and heard some people talking about BT's tourney and also about Park. I know you guys post here, and I clicked on this thread.



As far as Park goes,
Park is fully aware of whats going on, 6 of his students were beaten terribly as if they had never learned Martial Arts before and thats bad considering that some of them have been learning for years. It's bad for his rep. Novell is a student now, what's your point?


My point is that instead of fighting people that were trained by the man, you should fight the man himself. If one of Park's guys beat you, does that mean they are better than BT and his teachers?

[kyle]

maoshan

My intention is not to debate you,for I am not one of Park students,simply trained with park for a few years and know some of them.

This is just a view from a different perspective.

I feel deeply sorry for those who believe in what you guys write here about Park,they are missing the boat.

One thing is to have an opinion,another is to lie pretending to be a victim of an attack,for this offense a student could be kick out of a school.

SHAME ON YOU,YOU ARE A LIER,that is willing to do or say anything to get publicity and be known,keep on going while you have time,soon all these people that believe your lies will know who you really are.

YOU DEFEATED 6 STUDENTS LOL,that attacked you,please now you are also a victim,please.

I know the first 3 guys,you didn't have no fight,it was a FRIENDLY EXCHANGE of info and technics among students,(fools litlle did they know they will be meeting characters like you) they were not sent to you by Master Park,in fact these are students from one of Park's instructors in NJ.
This was voluntary,later you turned all this **** into a war of words and speculations to gain publicity and further your cause

NAME THE OTHER TWO STUDENTS,PLACE AND DATE,never heard of that incident and seriously doubt it that ever happen.

In fact you are contradicting yourself,you already passed judgment on the Master and his students,why then do you want them to prove their skills,who the **** are you to judge?.

Only your teacher can judge your MA.

Altough among your many illnesses you also suffer from DELUSION (seen Park's students everywere).

You guys were learning from Park's book not long ago,like many others,even try to get private instruction from him and he refused to teach you,like many other well known teachers,this must be the reason of your attacks,poor soul,you feel rejected and now you are seeking revenge.

He is not the only one and I dont blame him who would like to be associated with punks like you.

It doesn't make sense,does it?,here we have,the historian,researchers,investigators,warrior scholars Pa Kua experts,that know it all ,travel the four directions of the earth,interviewed and study many well known masters of the last 20 years and somehow they missed Master Park,

How come?,the BlackT never went to check him out in person?.
Even now after all this diarrea of words and accusation.

As I said before talk is cheap,actions very painful,if you guys never met a high level teacher?,you know the adress in VA,what are you waiting for? stop enbarrasing yourselfs.

[StaggerLee]

planetwc,

>>"If none of his guys are pro fighters, what is in it for them to take some physical damage from you in this day and age?" <<

>>"Show up to their jobs all busted up?<<

You make some great points.However if you do show up to work with a black eye-- the ole webbing in my baseball glove broke while playing catch line--is usually convincing enough.

[paperweight]

Kyle has just spilled the beans and the honest truth.

It's time to stop BT's lies.

The only way BT can spread all of this is because Park told his students not to post anymore. BT has created delusions in his head.

There was never any fight between he and Park's students...an exchange of ideas...but no "fight." It was a friendly meeting and now BT has stabbed his Pa Kua brothers in the back! They were novices first of all. Not high level students. Novices in search of learning with other Pa Kua brothers.

One last word about Park. Visit him, read his book. Where else are you going to find such information? Better yet, go visit BT and ask him to explain Chi gong and Pa Kua then go to Park or his senior student in VA, Richmond and ask your same questions. Then ask for a demonstration of fighting technique in a NICE FRIENDLY manner. Feel the depth of technique and depth of power. Then you make your judgment about who the true "FAKE" is.

THEN you will see the difference between who is a "MASTER" and who is a "STUDENT."

Be informed and see for yourself. Make your own opinions. This whole thing is old and not right.

Excellence gains respect. When was the last article you read by the BT ever in you local book store? How many intelligent replies has BT ever posted about Pa KUA in his history of posting? Nothing to learn from. Nothing to even gain anything from but how much he HATES PARK? How many masters respect BT's ability as a man and as a marital artist? This is the difference between a "MASTER" and a "STUDENT." Requiring more from yourself then posting and spreading idle gossip. Practicing instead (PARK still practices when most teachers have stopped learning) of being online 24/7. Making intellengent posts to improve the state of pa kua rather then create in-fighting and trash talk.

As was already stated...BT knows of Park's skill. And all that Kyle has stated is all there is to be said.

Be your own judge and visit both. See who is truly a Master and who is a student.

enough posting on this topic.

[blacktaoist]

Talk , talk , talk,.......Park is that.......Park is so good............Park is the Real master........Bt hates Park......Ect.......ect........ect.......ect...


All you Park students do is talk alot of Bul$hit, with nothing to back your words up.

Stop all your talking and show some action, step up......

Like I said before the end of this month, I'm going to visit you Suckers School were you suckers teach your fake bull$hit in the N.Y.C. and N.J.,.and I hope the God, Park ass is there. Then I want to see just how good you Mother****ers are.


l
The only way BT can spread all of this is because Park told his students not to post anymore. BT has created delusions in his head.

Man kill the Bull$hit, If you mother****ers are so Bad then then just step up........When my foot is up your ass, I want you to tell me if thats a delusion in your head.



One last word about Park. Visit him, read his book. Where else are you going to find such information? Better yet, go visit BT and ask him to explain Chi gong and Pa Kua then go to Park or his senior student in VA, Richmond and ask your same questions. Then ask for a demonstration of fighting technique in a NICE FRIENDLY manner. Feel the depth of technique and depth of power. Then you make your judgment about who the true "FAKE"
is.


Man Park books is $hit, Hsing Yi footwork that you fake mother****ers are trying to call Ba Gua footwork. And that Bull$hit Chi kung in his book, and you call that real information. Man you mother****ers are a joke.

Like I been saying anybody can come see me to test me, I'm all game, and I'm not hard to find. I'm no great master like the god****her of Ba Gua Park Bok Nam. But I'm willing to back my words up. Unlike these Park students thats keep on talking but do want to step up.......and show.

Just keep on talking, Because its just a matter of time and and one day out of this month I'm going to see just how good you mother****ers claim to be.




There was never any fight between he and Park's students...an exchange of ideas...but no "fight." It was a friendly meeting and now BT has stabbed his Pa Kua brothers in the back! They were novices first of all. Not high level students. Novices in search of learning with other Pa Kua brothers.

You are right, Because you fake mother****ers that claim to be high level students didn't have any real skill. The only exchange was me putting your boys on their ass. And I didn't even have to use Ba Gua on them. Street fighting is all it did on them, and they could not deal even with that. Man you cguys just can't fight, I don't care what Park trys to teach you.

The bottom line is you guys don't have anything. Not one of you guys can fight for real. But hey you claim Park is so high level and some of his top students. Well this month I'm going to find out. thats my Word.

See you, when I see you..........

[blacktaoist]

kyle your are straight up mother****ing lying. Not one statement in your post is conforming to truth. Man you Park mother****ers should write other book, because you mother****ers are good at lying. But hey , just read park book, there is nothing in it that is conforming to fact or truth. Now he is talking about this Bull$hit Ba Gua K'ou Pu and Pai Pu Chi Kung method.

Man you mother****ers are just liers. Man I done call you out, you live in the New York area. If you think I'm a fake why don't your as, just meet up with me and we can spar. And you can try that park $hit. But every body up here know you are all talk. I'm will to back my $hit up what about you? For one I want to kick your ass for just lying about $hit in your whole post.



You guys were learning from Park's book not long ago,like many others,even try to get private instruction from him and he refused to teach you,like many other well known teachers,this must be the reason of your attacks,poor soul,you feel rejected and now you are seeking revenge.

!. I never in my life Look Park up for private instruction, or learn his Bull**** methods within his book. Man If I find out who the **** you are I'm going to straight up kick your ass for lying on me like this. Man you Park mother****ers need help, the more I read your post the more I see how nuts your ass is. For your dumb ass to take the time to write your mendacious post.

Now I don't mind mother****ers attacking me on KFO with they virewpoints, But to post mother****ing lies about me, I will not stand fore.


As I said before talk is cheap,actions very painful,if you guys never met a high level teacher?,you know the adress in VA,what are you waiting for? stop enbarrasing yourselfs.

Man I don't have time to go all the way down Bull$hit Va, You fake mother****ers teach in the New York area and in the New Jersey. So I make my stops there. But first I'm going to copy your whole post. So when I step down to spar you mother****ers in the places your teach school N.Y.C. and N.J. area this month (because I know thats where your ass is from), I don't want to hear any Bull$hit when its time for me to crosshands with any of you mother****ers. I don't care if its the Grand master Park himself or any of his so called top students, Who ever thats my word to my dead grandfather, I will be there.

[paperweight]

Like Kyle states:

"You know the VA address."

And that big guy Moore you keep making fun of in VA has all the secrets and fighting skills you have been looking for also. You talk about power in many posts and true Nei Jing...you feel this man's palm and then you come back and chat about power. You feel Park's palm and talk about power. You do not find much more than that??

And again you have such anger. No one has attacked you. I stated to others to "judge for themselves."

I put this out...why if Park is such a fake and such a skill-less person do people the world over fly to train w/him? Why do people from 3 states away drive to learn from him? Not one time but many many many years. People w/over 14 years MA experience. People who have trained w/many internal masters and external masters. How many people fly to train in BT style? Not a cut on BT skill but give Park a break. Be a true Pa Kua brother and end this. learn from each other.

Words have power. We're both minorities in America and know what hate does. You're internal .....feel how words effect your energetic field. Not healthy.

If you're biggest and baddest that's great. I like your bravery. Spread the greatness of Pa Kua. We need you and your devotion to this art to keep things high level. Prove it with your excellence.

And no one said Park is the God father of Pa Kua. He's skilled. Has true internal power. And teaches a complete health/fighting system. I still have no idea why you single him out?

Look at all the fruit loops there are out there. Get on them who have nothing to offer...the writers of the books have no ability. What about that Long Island tai chi guy...Bob Clien.

[blacktaoist]

Bottom line you mother****ers are liers. I'm not trying to hear anymore of your lying Bull$hit.
So just keep on talking your Lying Bull$hit, its only a matter of time.

[blacktaoist]

And by the way if your boy Moore, pay for my air fare,( round trip) I love to come down there to spar his ass. Be I no I'm not wasting any of my money to come see his ass.

[paperweight]

You know where to taste the palm in VA as Kyle has stated.

Long power, short power, fighting ability using priciple of pa kua have always been right before your eyes. Is it from Yin FU? Is it from Dong Hai? Dont' know or really care. All I know is power and internal strike and priciples of pa kua...it's all there. Health and fighting it's all there. Weapons training is there too. How to use a knife/sword/staff in battle. How a Pa Kua player will fight an armed person. How they handle each weapon differently and why it's effective. How each piece contributes to the whole. Why you do stepping. Why you do chi gong. Why you do circle walk. Keep going deeper.

When you talked about complete system and Park's not being complete?? What exactly do you mean by that? Can you please explain why you think his system is not complete?

Can you expand more about why you think his new article on chi gong is not following pa kua principles? Have you studied it?

I have read many posts from "former" students of Park on KFO. And the thing that strikes me is that they all expect to be spoon feed? He shows you one thing to work on and master and they get bored after a week? Park shows you "one" you're responsible for "two" "three" and "four."

Park is looking for dedicated students to teach. Actually people with your dedication BT...just minus some attitude and more humility. Can't find people who love to practice anymore like you. X-box and baseball and women and building a career and parties take all the would be great players out of pa kau.

As someone posted earlier. Park and Moore have nothing to prove anymore. They been down that road many many years ago. Testing Pa Kua to see if it "worked." What happens when you deliver a palm full force. Refining and testing yet again. Challenges and real fights...more than will ever be writen about. Weapons fights in real situations. They want to pass that and the health benefits and the principles on now to the next generation. They love pa kua.

Why are you so mad about that? A man who loves what we love? Great Pa Kua? Great fighting using internal principles? Long health and peace of mind.

Empty your cup and let us be friends. Park has nothing against you. And is why he has issued the "no posting rule." No need to create more hate in this world...especially among pa kua brothers.

[maoshan]

I'll give this to you guys, your persistant.
only If y'all would put that same effort into your training. Oh well

kyle

(One thing is to have an opinion,another is to lie pretending to be a victim of an attack,for this offense a student could be kick out of a school.)
When did I claim to be a victim? and where did I lie?

(SHAME ON YOU,YOU ARE A LIER,that is willing to do or say anything to get publicity and be known,keep on going while you have time,soon all these people that believe your lies will know who you really are.)

Again with the accusation. The things I posted can be verified by anyone willing to look. at this time I am among the few practitioners of this system that have my time in. (22yrs) I have everything ever written on Bagua in the US or most of it. Including Parks first article and everything until this point. I know what is and what isn't. Do the research.

(YOU DEFEATED 6 STUDENTS LOL,that attacked you,please now you are also a victim,please.



Again I'm not the victim nor is my brother. They became the victims. While yes, in the beginning it was friendly enough, but frustration on thier part took it to another level. We always give better than we get.
Look, It was never said that Park sent his people after us. The questions were of his method. These people had no power. After 6 mos of training all of our people have power. At lest a considerable increase from when they started. We know our training methods work through experiance not because we were told so by book or teacher. we test constantly. Again, don't blame us for your lousy work ethic.
The training methods that we all train were handed down from the progenitors of our styles. The methods were/are perpetual,
provided that the individual trains them. That's the only way a system will survive. I don't see this continuation in your guys system. ex: I've asked this question for some time now and no one has answered. WHY DON"T YOU GUYS HAVE SENSITIVITY TRAINING IN YOUR SYSTEM? and if not, then why? Every other Internal system has pushhands ETC...
Why don't your people understand what a bridge is? (and I mean Prior to us bringing this point out online.) The bridge is the root unto which you develope the piercing palm of the Yin school. to which you claim lineage. Something doesn't fit here.





(NAME THE OTHER TWO STUDENTS,PLACE AND DATE,never heard of that incident and seriously doubt it that ever happen.)

It wasn't two. It was three. They came to jump him, Not make friends. How many people do you know of that, unless they knew them ,were told the names of thier attackers by thier attackers?
Place: In Chinatown by the park on Mullbarry St. He had just got through training.
Date: last year some time. I can't remember the exact date, But why should we? in fact we LOL over the whole thing at the time.
and would have left it alone had not (again) one of those ass holes started poping **** again and when they went over the line our own tact went out the window. It doesn't take much.



(Only your teacher can judge your MA.)
Bull$hit!
The moment you step in the arena your open to scrutiny. and those that have been in the game for sometime in particular have the right. You either have it or you don't.

(You guys were learning from Park's book not long ago,like many others,even try to get private instruction from him and he refused to teach you,like many other well known teachers,this must be the reason of your attacks,poor soul,you feel rejected and now you are seeking revenge.)

Are you out of your ****ing mind?
The book was one of fundamentals. that's not what my brother and I were interested in by the time that book came out. Even if it was ledgit it would have only served to hinder our progress being our level at the time. it was just more info to catolog. nothing beyond that.

Now,Private Lessons?
Again I ask you, Are you out of your ****ing mind?
As far as teachers go, we've been fortunate in that we've learned from the best Known and unknown in NY. In fact on a lot of occasions they came to us because they saw the ABILITY and potential in us. every teacher is looking for that pearl in this sea of mud. My classmate and I fall into this catogory. But so what.
It would have meant nothing if we didn't train. Hell, when two of our students went to parks siminar the last time he was in NY,
They did his drills better than his own students and wanted them as his students but our people are loyal.
We have alway expressed the fact that we are from the ghetto,
stressing the point "we ain't got no money" so how and when did we try to get private lessons from park? We couldn,t pay him. What was we going to do sweep up his school? Please.
My brother and I have learned from every teacher we ever wanted to learn from. Why? Because we've always taken what they gave to us and made t work which inturn made them want to give us more. THINK ABOUT THIS ACCUSATION CAREFULLY.
our rep didn't come from reading books.
And for just the hell of it, what teachers are you referring to that turned us down?
There where, to only recently, very few teachers of BaGua in NY and we know them all. and even the new guys we know them too.
So, just who are you talking about? You Played your self.
Talk about seeking revenge.



(How come?,the BlackT never went to check him out in person?.
Even now after all this diarrea of words and accusation.)

I did, back in the 80's twice. and your point?
Look, Park is one of the pioneers of Ba-Gua In the US. I know this.
It was new, info was very heard too get in terms of indeph stuff.
so you took what you got. But times have changed since then. True lineage holders have steped forward and presented things that make you think about previous things learned to the point of either incorporation or total dismissal. We're not emotionless drones that simply do as we are told that is for beginners. it's about reserarch and experiance. and if your not using your mind your usless anyway. Get it?

(As I said before talk is cheap,actions very painful,if you guys never met a high level teacher?,you know the adress in VA,what are you waiting for? stop enbarrasing yourselfs.)

As far as fighting goes, you already know where we stand.
Didn't you understand before? Our teachers are high level, they are lineage holders. We trace our selves straight back to Dong.
but we don't talk about it, because we have to be able to demonstrate the standard, of which we are working on. Oh we're alright, but we're not what we have to be. and judgeing from what I've seen you guys have no idea.
STOP TALKING $HIT AND TRAIN. THE METHOD SHOULD SPEAK FOR ITSELF, WHY DOESN'T IT? THAT SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING.


paperweight




Kyle has just spilled the beans and the honest truth.

Just what lies are you referring to? The physical side, or the technical side.
Both of us have made strong points that have not been refuted.
Your so happy that someone came to your aide in this.....
But you can't think for yourself so you lached yourself on to Kyle's coattail. You act like you knew and try to present the image of one who has honor and because of that you said nothing. Come Off that BULL$HIT!
I'm not a politition, but I know the game well, and I'm not playing.

(The only way BT can spread all of this is because Park told his students not to post anymore. BT has created delusions in his head.)

What the hell are you talking about?
Parks people and (I believe) you, have been posting since I started this thread. Again, wounded pride.
In your mind I attacked your diety, and you have to defend him.
I asked this question: "If this is Yin style, Then how come no other branch of the yinstyle or any other style of Bagua knows of this particular Qi Gong which should be shared among all styles of Bagua?"

This was interpreted as an attack on park. While it is directed at park, it was not an attack per se. In the beginning it was more couriosity then anything else. But then the bull$hit began.
We pull no punches, and you can't stand the fact that you have nothing to refute what I wrote. Am I shattering that false sense of security of yours or something?
Truth is truth. Period!
Prove me wrong. If you can.


. Then you make your judgment about who the true "FAKE" is)

1)Quite a few places, if you but look.
2)Techniques are executed according to your attainment.
3)Yes, I agree.
The people should know exactly what they are getting.
Nobody's competing for students, This is for the promotion of Bagua, and not my tournament. hell, that's what the tournaments for, the promotion of true bagua, and i'm ever true to the aim of my goal.




On this, I take my leave of you, Your making things up again.
you know full well that we are the ones who stress training the most.

{Making intellengent posts to improve the state of pa kua rather then create in-fighting and trash talk.)

How do you mean this? The state of pa kua. do you mean in the sense that no matter what we do, if we call it Ba gua we all should all be cool or at lest cordial to each other, right?

NEVER!
And I will not promote it. I will never uphold any bull$hit and try and pass it off as authentic Bagua. While I agree with inovation, make it clear that it is an inovation not some secret technique that was taught to only you from your master. Come on man!

Park's not being complete?? What exactly do you mean by that?

I'll give you two, Why no sensitivity training?, do you understand and utilise the bridge? I've been asking this question.



As to the last part of your post, there you go again trying to be this lofty personage with your grander and jestures of benelovance mixed with reproff as though your someone's wise old mentor. My brother was right, you do watch to many kung fu movies.
As I've said before this is not a game.

[Sam Wiley]

Originally posted by maoshan
Why no sensitivity training?, do you understand and utilise the bridge? I've been asking this question.

Not trying to fan the flames here, but I've heard this several times about Park's style. I practice 3 different arts and they all have some sort of push hands and sensitivity training. One of the styles I study is Bagua, which has one of the more in-depth methods. Is this true about Park's style? How could an internal art not have training like this?

[paperweight]

You gentlemen are funny. Not funny as in I make fun of you but funny because all the things you say are already there.

Sensativity training? Yes, Park does teach this... Come on...you think a man of that skill level has no ting jin ability? If you ever study deeply w/Park you will see and "not feel" him.

Bridge? yes Park does teach this. How else do you get in the door? W/O the bridge how can you do anything? Not to be rude but it's like asking do you have breathing in chi gong? By the way Park has over 12 styles of breathing alone in his system.

Diety? never. Park always is humble and would never expect to be considered more than human. As a matter of fact he always asks his students to always ask "WHY?" His teacher always told him to ask "WHY?" That is why his learning is so deep.

You talk about power? Park spent 4 years on the fundementals of Pa Kua. That's power. W/O that kind of full body power you really have nothing. Well...you may have something but your acheilles heel will always be poor basics.

People w/out fighting ability? Honestly, there are many people in all forms of kung fu w/o fighting ability. But those that seek it and test it in real situations are the ones you need to be fighting with. That guy you make fun of is one of the best people around. Again his power is like nothing I've seen. Again I state that those you betrayed were novices. You said you have 20yrs of experience...come on that's not exactly being big brother. Being of such a high level you owe them guidence and support in reaching a higher level.

All this anger at another man's system that you have never studied deeply. Why? These people that attacked you...is this why you hate Park? Park did not send these people. Why do you hate Park? People on KFO rouse you to no end is this why you hate Park? He has never been on KFO. And rarly uses a computer.

You have said it clearly. You do not want to be tied down to one teacher. So how can you learn deeply unless you are trusted? Many teachers have been betrayed in this country.

I say it again. Why not be true Pa Kua brothers and stop this hate. True power is in the expansive phase of thinking. Why be contractive...nothing can get in. The taoist were very humble in thinking. Open to all things to make all things possible. If you hold such hate how can you grasp the true high levels of this art? To know yourself first.

Friends....I say again.

[razakdigital]

THE FOLLOWING TWO POST WAS POSTED EARLIER


Kyle

Klye
I know the first 3 guys,you didn't have no fight,it was a FRIENDLY EXCHANGE of info and technics among students,(fools litlle did they know they will be meeting characters like you) they were not sent to you by Master Park,in fact these are students from one of Park's instructors in NJ.
This was voluntary,later you turned all this **** into a war of words and speculations to gain publicity and further your cause

NAME THE OTHER TWO STUDENTS,PLACE AND DATE,never heard of that incident and seriously doubt it that ever happen.

In fact you are contradicting yourself,you already passed judgment on the Master and his students,why then do you want them to prove their skills,who the **** are you to judge?.

Only your teacher can judge your MA.

Altough among your many illnesses you also suffer from DELUSION (seen Park's students everywere).

You guys were learning from Park's book not long ago,like many others,even try to get private instruction from him and he refused to teach you,like many other well known teachers,this must be the reason of your attacks,poor soul,you feel rejected and now you are seeking revenge.

paperweight

There was never any fight between he and Park's students...an exchange of ideas...but no "fight." It was a friendly meeting and now BT has stabbed his Pa Kua brothers in the back! They were novices first of all. Not high level students. Novices in search of learning with other Pa Kua brothers.

MY SUMMARY
=============================================
I've been out of touch with this forum and I finally saw the post I needed to clarify things. As everyone can see I took two post from paperweight and kyle. I wanted to bring up some truths from the person that knows best. That is me!!! I was the one that coordinated the meeting between three of Parks students and the Brothers of Wudang. I meet one student at a few tournaments. We exchanged exchanges numbers. We talked and email each and one of the things he expressed was his classmates wanted to see other Pa Kua practitioners. Out of good will between practionters we arranged a meeting to share ideas. We meet up in Manhattan and drove to Kisena Park in Queens. Our exchange of ideas was us learning that at that time the students that came did not know Push Hands. They did not do bridge training as well. How do I know? We show them they couldn't do it. One of the senior students touch with Chen Xiao Ping who is one of BT teachers and got a lesson in what the deffirence is between offense and defense in combat. BT show the top student what a bridge was by demostrating it and had the student on the bench leaning over. When it came time to spar we (as I highlighted in a previous post) did a light combat fight. The first student from our school fought one Park's students. This student who was as my intial contact fought one students and he couldn't muster any attack and had no fighting ability. The next student (which at that time he was not a consistent student) fought - this classmate did a palm strike to the students midsection and use that oppurutunity to bring the student to the floor. I fought last and I fought the most senior student there and had 8 years of Kung Fu experience. He told us before he went to Park's school he did Shaolin boxing and the 8 years of experience was a combination of learning from Park and the eastern boxing. I beat the kid by using pa kua and Hsing-I 's Pi Chuan and Bengs. He had nothing. I mean no disrepect but I'm willing to demostrate again at anytime. Yes, it wasn't full contact between us and Park's students but it was sparring nonetheless and they could not display any techniques. 2 of the students were 2 years students and the senior student had years of experience highlighted in my first post. All three students had the same posture in fighting and were rigid in their movements. They paid the highest regard to their teacher because they had the same posture as him and the logo's you see with Park's books and such. By the way, one of the students (whose name I know as well) was the only open minded fellow and we offered to take him under our wing and teach him Pa Kua. We told him that we could have him kicking his classmates a** in no time. He declined our offer because of his loyalty to Pa Kua and the distant it would take to train him.
What I write here is correct since I was the middleman between both parties to set up this meeting. I know the name of the Park's student that I interfaced with and I could post it as proof if need be.

Concerning private instruction with Park - I was one of the students that attended the seminar at the Tecneck school. Park was impress with my senior classmate due to his excellent execution of some of his drills. We went to the seminar to see other forms of PaKua. As everyone is aware the Brothers of Wudang go many other teachers as well to experience other Pa Kua styles...we even went to China two times to get information. Did we try to get private instruction from Park's school? The truth is was we were trying to meet up with Gleen Wright to train with him because he is Afrikan American such as ourselves. As crew we try to share and learn from our people as a priority when possible. He stated he couldn't due to Park being the master teacher and such...by the way I'm one of the students that spoke with him over the phone.. This happen in a period of 4 years ago...believe we are not upset training with Park because that was one of our goals as shown above.

Concerning Park's crew that tried to confront BT. One of the these individuals was at the Park sparring with us ... in fact he was the one that sparred with me. How do I know? Based on the description from BT and eyewitness accounts. How else could this confrontation happened?

I'm a busy man so my days of posting and reposting on KFO is not my cup of tea at the moment. I say this to say that I've documented my involvement and many of the statements that were posted and no one speak on it better then me. I'm not trying to put up false information or accusations in this post. I have no problem going to any of the schools to point out the students that we sparred with in Kisena as evidence. I can list names as well facial and body descriptions. I assume they can do as well. I hope this shed some light on the issue.
==============================================

[paperweight]

Sounds right on....The only thing I'm not sure about or have heard about are these people that jumped BT or what Park actually thought of you guys as MAs.

These guys that jumped BT... I'm positive was not supported or inspired by Park or his school. Probably just a student looking to get some cheap licks in. They should know better than to act out of haste or anger or worse revenge.

As far as the fighting goes. Park hands out the information. If the students practice it...it is their business to master it. Plan and simple. Like every school you goto in the US. You have those that master the art and those that dabble. Those that master the fighting part are exceptional fighters. Also as you well know the length of time in any art doen't mean anything unless they are mastering the fundamentals. I believe that BT said their posture was robotic? That doesn't sound like anything Park has shown or inspires his students to do. If they seem robotic they need to study more. If you have seen Park demo his Pa Kua it is smooth and light and powerful.

Now that all this has happened...can't we leave things in peace.

If all these student's were learning nothing there would be no students. If Park had nothing to teach... people from the world over would not fly to VA to learn from him. If all he had was Fake then people would not bother to drive from 2-3 states away to learn. If his art was not effective in combat the people who were instructors of other systems would not have converted to Park's style of Pa Kua to learn the fighting. If his art was not effective in health then unhealthy high ranking MAs of hard styles would not be learning from him. What he has is highly effective in combat as proof of his teacher's career as a gurilla fighter. Killing for a living is about as real as it gets?

The hate has gone on long enough. The words from both sides too silly. It's easy to hate let's take it up a notch. We are all Pa Kua brothers.

[kyle]

Razack

You said that you guys did seek instruction from Glenn Wright and due to his african roots you trusted him,right?

how hard is it for you,then, to call him and find out directly from a senior about Master Park Pa Kua methods and skills,he knows him from Korea and his Pa Kua is first class.

BT,Maoshan

Guys,I have nothing against you or your methods of training and ... frankly I don't give a ****,you do yours,I do mine.

Do you want to know about any MA system,why risk injury and fight,is better to pay tuition and try it.

what?,99% of IMA is not good in this country,what?,even in china?

No more.

BEHOLD,OH MORTAL ONES BAGUA MESIAH IS HERE TO SAVE YOU.

This an example,a syntesis of his teachings overheard in a conversation with one of his followers.

And he said...........

believe and follow me,if you don't,I will kick your ass.

Lord?,

What?

you are wise,and generous,but are you sure that this aproach will help "learn more,improve and elevate my Pa Kua skills"?.

WWHAMMM!!!!

I understand,thank you Lord.

Winning or loosing,fighting or not ,as a vehicle all MA are effective fighting systems.

What makes one better than the other?

The user,darling, the user is the key,

Naturally,to understand this the minimun requirement is two fingers of intellenge,am I asking to much of the Brothers of W.

Why is it that the need of cultivating your mind is more dificult to understand than the need of cultivating your body,yet the rewards are far greater.

[paperweight]

You are a fool...

Can't you just let it go.

And where is your "MIND" when you attack BT? You generate the same dynamic/ momentum as that you claim you are against.

Why must you make more trouble? You say something to get a rise out of them they something to get a rise out of you.

Just goes in circles...stupidity.

We're all on the same team. Not only the same team but same family.

Division creates hatred and weakness. Unity is the power that we seek.

[razakdigital]

KYLE - You wrote

Razack

You said that you guys did seek instruction from Glenn Wright and due to his african roots you trusted him,right?

how hard is it for you,then, to call him and find out directly from a senior about Master Park Pa Kua methods and skills,he knows him from Korea and his Pa Kua is first class.

It pains me so much to be on this board talking about this topic. Since my name is brought up - I ask you Kyle what do you mean by the above paragraph? Can you be more descriptive? By the way I did talk to Park personally on the phone if this is what you were suggesting what I should have done.

The name is RAZAK not in the manner you wrote prevously.

[kyle]

Never mind Razak

is nothing personal,relax,

Paperweight

My respects to you, you are in the right frame of mind.

Better go back to train.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by blacktaoist

As for david lin, man are you for real.

Very much so

www.combatshuaichiao.com

[wufupaul]

Originally posted by blacktaoist:

As for david lin, man are you for real.

Water Dragon: Very much so combatshuaichiao.com

Different guy, WD. This is the guy I bet he was referring to in NYC: http://www.naturalmartialarts.com/

[blacktaoist]

wufupaul thats the guy I'm talking about.

[wufupaul]

I thought so, :D

[HongQuan]

Hahaha... This guy is the joke of NYC!
I know you can't be talking about this guy. He's got nothing on BT or any serious practitioner for that matter.

[count]

Hahaha... This guy is the joke of NYC! I know you can't be talking about this guy. He's got nothing on BT or any serious practitioner for that matter.



No but David Lin might. I keep telling you guys, there are more than one martial artist named David Lin. Just follow the link Water Dragon gave.

[blacktaoist]

.
No but David Lin might. I keep telling you guys, there are more than one martial artist named David Lin. Just follow the link Water Dragon gave.


HongQuan,

As you can see guys up here are always riding off of somebody other then their own martial art fighting Skills.

I love to see if count can apply his Ba Gua on this David Lin Guy that water dragon post the link to. But I guess I get to see count Ba Gua in action when he fights at Maoshen Ba Gua tournament?

Anyway Hong Quan thanks for the e-mail man, I see what you was talking about. Good looking out on the information.

[Crimson Phoenix]

Wow guys you got me worried with that NYC D. Lin guy...man...I went to the website before reading Hong's comment and I was like "WHAT???"
The guy claims Sun Lu Tang and Li Ching Lin as his lineage when he was born in 1935 and these two died respectively in 1933 and 1920!
A friend of mine is practicing the "bagua dao long xing tao", so I guess it makes him a direct student of Chu Gui Ting then? LOL
I don't know about his skills, but such a dishonest approach on lineage always makes me go hhhhhmmmmmmm...
Anyway, it's completely off topic, but seems I had time to lose this morning heheheheheh

[Ray Pina]

The NY Giant's $uck. They are the worst. They have no passing game and their line consists of a bunch of white bread high on the hog NY panzies.

The Dolphins, don't even get me started on the Dolphins, who names their football team after a water-based mammal? They can't be any good.

And the colts, when was the last time they did anything for anyone, those no good bums.

No, the only team worth a **** is the Oakland Raiders, we all know that. Yea, sure, every team consists of players who have been playing for years -- H.S., college, and pro -- but only the Raiders are good, check their record.

I love football, but everybody $ucks but the Oakland Raiders.

Just thought I'd get my rant out now that the season is almost in swing, now I'm disapearring for some time because my technique still sucks and have much more to learn.

Peace

[Water Dragon]

I just wanted to make sure there was no confusion as to which David Lin we were speaking of. Sev was speaking about D. Lin of Atlanta while BT was referring to D. Lin of New York. Big difference. :D

[blacktaoist]

This is just the point I'm trying to make, you have people out here claiming they are masters or they good in the internal. Then when you go see them they are $hit. I visit this David Lin of New York, because he claim to teach the Ba Gua of Sun Lu Tang, so I wanted to learn it.

So I ask to crosshands with this So called great master, I crosshands with people before I learn from them. We crosshands and all I say is this man is no Skilled master in my opinion.

Like I said before there is a lot of Bull$hit in the air. And a lot of fools that are paying for the $hit even when the true facts about these kinds of people are right in they face :o

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
I just wanted to make sure there was no confusion as to which David Lin we were speaking of. Sev was speaking about D. Lin of Atlanta while BT was referring to D. Lin of New York. Big difference. :D

I want to make a point of clarification here. I have no opinion what so ever on Mr. David Lin of NYC. I simply have nothing to base an opinion on.

After reading my post again, I can see where that might be misinterpreted.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Just some clarification - David Lin from Atlanta, GA is a Shuai Chiao and Xing-Yi player, not a bagua man. Mostly a Shuai Chiao fighter.

He is a highly respected fighter and coach, with a very public record. He's like the mickey mantle of Shuai Chiao back in Taiwan. He has also been a 'coach' for various special services groups.

Other than the name, there is no similarity between the two men.