Is it OK to be a man?......

[DelicateSound]

No, I'm not thinking of a sex-change. Or even of dressing up in womens clothing. [Hell, I'm not Stacey] :D

After reading Willow Sword's post, I'm posting this little anecdote, and yes Mr.Lek, it is martial arts related. Sort of.


Three months ago my lass was complaining about my MA. A "typical, male neandertholic thing" apparantly. However, when she found out that about 2/3 of the class were female, she thought that was a good idea, and that female empowerment etc. was a fundamentally positive concept of the late 20th century.

Apparantly the idea of me getting hot and sweaty with a dozen lithe females wasn't so good.



Anyway, my point is that over the last 30 years, this trend of role-reversal has grown steadily. Is it a bad thing for guys to do MA's now. You usually get a "typical male" comment from lasses, and a "so how hard are you then" moronic comment from most blokes.

No matter how we justify our aims to ourselves [self-defence, fitness etc] a large proportion of the non-MA public will see is in a narrow minded stereotypical view.

And if I can't get away with MA, can I get away with f arting in public?




Insert comments below.

[DelicateSound]

God da mn it!

Fu-Pow already made a thread like this. Mine's better worded, and slightly different though, so I'll keep it.


Must be the weather or something, all thinking alike.....




:rolleyes:

[Nexus]

Just be yourself. One does not need to try and be anything as we are already all that we will ever need to be.

[DelicateSound]

If you are, Nexus, by any chance a small bearded man with severe dandruff and a mullet, who has a fondness for lime green anoraks and goloshers, then please leave.


If not, man did that sound cool, in a Mr.Miyagi sort of way.



You should visit www.quotationspage.com for more enlightenment.



And Nexus, whilst on a fundamental level I do agree [as I believe that within ourselves is the necessary potential to achieve all we could ever want to achieve], I do not believe that we are "all" we could ever want to be, as without the exertion and determination to reach our zenith, our potential, we can never be fully satisfied.

[Ryu]

Never knew that controversy was going on.

Most people I know could care less who does martial arts.

Ryu

[Former castleva]

"No, I'm not thinking of a sex-change. Or even of dressing up in womens clothing." [Hell, I'm not Stacey]
And you actually made me load this post? ;)

"Anyway, my point is that over the last 30 years, this trend of role-reversal has grown steadily. Is it a bad thing for guys to do MA's now. You usually get a "typical male" comment from lasses, and a "so how hard are you then" moronic comment from most blokes.

No matter how we justify our aims to ourselves [self-defence, fitness etc] a large proportion of the non-MA public will see is in a narrow minded stereotypical view." ETC.

I have been thinking about releasing a post slightly like this from time to time,thanks to you I might just do that next time I remember that...

Yes,it´s quite ridiculous.
Could it be it is a cause of pure ignorance.
If only understanding of the subject comes from movies it is now wonder that ignorant mind makes things like this up,combined with no actual study,ever.
I would say ignore it,overflowing full glasses are of no use.
You can use a friendly response of calling people to a class or two if they act open minded and pay respect,maybe that would crush a couple of myths.
It is at times,reminded,that you should not make a big number of it "in public" to avoid unnecessary "blokes" from challenging you to prove something,dangerous and bad reputation.

i can´t really say anything else right now,let me know what you think.


:)

[rubthebuddha]

i think that problem may be more of an individual thing. unless she thinks of you as neanderthal-prone, she should know better than to say that something that makes up so much of who you are is neandertholic.

take my girl. she knows i'm harmless -- that i'm a decent person and don't like violence and ... -- so for her to say that something that is such a big part of my life is contrary to who i am would be out of line.

we all know that MA are misunderstood by the vast majority of non-MA people, so we're going to have to deal with the typical dolt who, upon learning of our activity, has to ask, "so, have you ever killed someone with your bare hands?" but such is life. but when someone who knows us better still makes such a claim, turn it back on them and say, "is that your opinion of me?"

if they say yes, show 'em what a neanderthal can do.

if they say no, then keep 'em.

:)

[fa_jing]

Women seem to be wierd in Northern Europe. No non-lesbian non-academic chick here would say that, unless you were some kind of show-off and really deserved it. No women here say "typical male", I would say "what do you prefer, to munch carpets?" They might complain about men but not for liking/participating in contact sports.

[Ford Prefect]

I agree with fa_jing. However, in the US there is the pussification of the American male to deal with. Most guys nowadays have the emotional instability of a woman during her cycle and are insecure little girls. This forum is a good refelection of that. :)

[DelicateSound]

Never knew that controversy was going on.

Well maybe your hareem of lithe Japanese hottie hasn't succumb to the greater evil. But one day they will Ryu. And whilst they're driving HGV's, refusing to shave their legs and fisting each other you'll be alone, alone and afraid. And you'll think;

"Ooooh no, I wish I'd have played an active part on that discussion at KFO that time, rather than turning a blind eye. Then I might have been OK... sob sob....."


No?







:D

[Ryu]

Sure :D Like THAT'LL happen...


*Ryu turns a blind eye....* *suddenly a strange wind picks up in the distance*

Ryu: Hmm? That wind?..... nah.... must be nothing....


:D

[DelicateSound]

Trust me. When you see Aki drive past behind the wheel of a Wal-Mart Home Delivery Service [TM] van, her butch arms lifting a range of garden furniture, her Jay Leno haircut, not even wavering in the breeze, you'll know.

You will know........





:p

[Fu-Pow]

The problem I see is that martial media (UFC, movies, magazines) and the way mainstream culture depicts martial arts (commercials especially) paint martial artists in a bad or even worse, humorous light. The truth is that most of the martial artists that I know personally are some of the fiestiest, coolest and most well adjusted people I know. Everybody else just needs to get on the boat....martial arts=all the things that they should really be teaching in public schools.

[ewallace]

However, in the US there is the pussification of the American male to deal with
Outstanding. Couldn't have said it any better myself. Since we are on the internet Ford...Here's to you (http://www.321greetings.com/images/beer.jpg)

[TaoBoy]

Is it OK to be a man?......

Doesn't seem like I have much of a choice.

Born with the equipment.
Like the equipment.
Keeping the equipment.

:D

[{i^(]

Just play it all cowboy-like and say, "yep" to all questions.

As for the pussification of the US male- gotta agree there. Nobody knows how to be a standup guy anymore. We're either "d1cks" or "A ssh0l3s"..which makes me wonder: what's the difference?

Are "A ssh0l3s" just louder "d1cks", or are "d1cks" just sneaky gits? And how do you navigate around either????

Oh, uh, Martial arts...no one's asked me very much about it, and certainly not anything negative. Prob'ly an age-related thing- being older, no one much gives a dam n. They are more like, "you've got time for that?"

[Ryu]

Nobody knows how to be a standup guy anymore.


This is because people get it confused with "pussification" or whatever nonsense they call it.
If you want to be a "stand up guy" you need to take responsiblity for ALL your actions, be both in touch and in control of your emotions, strive to keep up good values, morals, and dignity, treat women with respect, stop being controlled by your d1ck, and have a little discipline in your life.

Whoever isn't willing to do that stuff, don't complain. You made your bed, now lie in it.

This isn't meant for anyone in particular, but if guys and gals want their images to change it's up to them to do something about it.

Ryu

[straight blast]

However, in the US there is the pussification of the American male to deal with. Most guys nowadays have the emotional instability of a woman during her cycle and are insecure little girls

Amen!!! This is true over here in Oz too. I can't understand all these wussy little biotches...why why why? I am horrified everytime our prime minister goes overseas to bend over for George W Bush. To think that people of other countries might see that pathetic snivelling piece of puke and think that he actually represents Australia is terrifying! God have mercy.

I think Billy Connely (my favourite social critic :) ) summed it up nicely in one of his videos. He said something along the lines of the womens movement being a group of strong self organised women who demand this, expect that, require this, want that, they want it now, they want it yesterday, they want it full stop and they won't take no for an answer.

He then said the mens movement was a bunch of guys sitting round in circles crying "My father didn't love me...". It only stands to reason that chicks don't respect lots of guys.

But the ones that count do ;)

[Serpent]

What really makes me sick is the complete reversal that's going on. How many ads are there now with chicks treating guys like dirt and laughing it up, because now they're empowered. Things that would have had feminists foaming at the mouth if it had been the other way around.

There was a billboard around for a while with this chick in high heels holding two big, naked, muscley guys on a leash. The guys were on all fours. Now, reverse the genders in that ad and see how long it would have lasted.

Seems to me that chicks justifiably made a fuss because there was a definite mysoginist vibe happening. So things started levelling out, treating women like objects became frowned upon and a whole new balance was achieved.

Now the *****es are throwing it back and acting up in all the ways that they had such a problem with before. Knee-jerk power trip with their new found equality. Yet still they call the sexism card at the slightest opportunity, riding the PC bandwagon for all it's worth.

The result? Chicks with ego trips like guys used to have and guys that are *****-whipped into scared little mama's boys.

Pussification indeed.

[Ryu]

"There was a billboard around for a while with this chick in high heels holding two big, naked, muscley guys on a leash. The guys were on all fours. Now, reverse the genders in that ad and see how long it would have lasted. "


That's disgusting, and I completely agree with you 100%, Serpent.


Man..... I should quit reading these threads because all it does is get me POed sometimes. People just bicker back and forth, but in the real world no one takes a stand to do anything about it.

Oh well.

Ryu

[Wu Wei]

This thread is great.

I dont mean to insult anybody personally, but a woman who says that martial arts is a neanderthalic thing is being simplistic and presumptuous from the start. On top of that, she decides that the only reason MA is okay, is because it "empowers" women? How is that not Neanderthalic? First judge something as being simple and violent w/out even knowing what youre talking about, and then do it yourself for more power?

My apologies if she meant empowerment in the sense of women protecting themselves from attackers, because thats a great cause, but somehow I doubt thats what she meant.
The Tao of Pooh by Benjamin Hoff has some excellent stuff in it about feminism. I suggest that as a good read.

Has anyone else noticed that feminists possess the worst male qualities, which they so futilely oppose? Feminists are like a kid who was bullied at school and grows up to be a bully. Theres nothing noble about that.

The world doesn't benefit from feminism, it benefits from respect.

[rubthebuddha]

honestly, i don't give a **** either way. if someone's a ***** and it's worth my time to point it out, i'll call them on it. often when i do and it's a girl, i get called sexist. and i say, "actually, no, i revere mature women a lot. i just think you personally are a *****."

i like wu wei's comment on respect. who gives a nut if someone is an empowered girl or a pansy guy. are they acting respectably and respectfully? then mad props to them. are they acting like they deserve a swift kick in the nuts? kick 'em. and if they don't have the right kind of bits, certain parts of a girl wedged between a boot and pelvic bone can't be comfy.

but i digress. in all honesty, put your concern where it matters. someone's coo, be coo. someone's not coo, let it go. period.

[Polaris]

Originally posted by DelicateSound

Three months ago my lass was complaining about my MA. A "typical, male neandertholic thing" apparantly. However, when she found out that about 2/3 of the class were female, she thought that was a good idea, and that female empowerment etc. was a fundamentally positive concept of the late 20th century

Sounds like you should find yourself a new "lass".


Originally posted by DelicateSound

Apparantly the idea of me getting hot and sweaty with a dozen lithe females wasn't so good.

See above


Originally posted by DelicateSound

Anyway, my point is that over the last 30 years, this trend of role-reversal has grown steadily. Is it a bad thing for guys to do MA's now. You usually get a "typical male" comment from lasses, and a "so how hard are you then" moronic comment from most blokes.

No matter how we justify our aims to ourselves [self-defence, fitness etc] a large proportion of the non-MA public will see is in a narrow minded stereotypical view.

No big deal. I don't need to justify it to anyone. I prefer to keep
it to myself, but sometimes it does come up. I've never really gotten any of those comments from females, though I have got
some from the insecure, wannabe tough guys. Though a few
days back some "lass" called me crazy for it, but immediately
followed it up with, "just kidding". :confused:


Yes the whole "Pussification of America" is true. Masculinity is
becoming a crime, "feminists" who want "equality" (only in the
ways that it will benefit them) and so on.

I agree pretty much with what Ryu said about being a "stand up"
guy. I'm not going to treat everyone with respect though.

Now I'm not sexist, but I do have a certain concept of masculinity
and femininity. I'm not going to be told how to think or act by
"femi-nazis" or a public brainwashed by Political Correctness. If they don't like it then they can go find a shoulder to cry on, but it
won't be mine.

[{i^(]

Why men don't protest and women do: we have jobs and they have to cook and clean. heheheheheh.

Ryu: excellent. I quite agree. And so would a feminist by the name of Camille Paglia, BTW. She demands that women NOT whine, and she is what is called an 'equality' feminist, not a 'difference' feminist. Good terms for knowing the enemies. Difference types say, basically, women are superior in ___ ways.

She also said men don't get credit for setting up a society that is safe and balanced ENOUGH to allow women the opportunity to make whiny protests. Wasn't easy, no, but we did, as a whole, relinquish significant power and shared it out, and have NOT on the whole complained.

In my earlier post, I was making references to name-calling that is constant, yet males NEVER take women to task for it. They're immune. If you complain about this callous behavior, you're a wuss.

And, IMO, women conduct relationships with casual emotional brutality as a matter of course. Just the way it is. Not like I'm bitter or anything.

[Royal Dragon]

we all know that MA are misunderstood by the vast majority of non-MA people,

Reply]
Heck, MA's are even misunderstood by many M's!!!!!

[KC Elbows]

This thread is cracking me up.

You're all whiney b1tches, except {i^(, who is bitter, but correct.

If emotional abuse were a pusishible crime, I think a lot of women would be in prison.

And more women in prison means more movies about women in prison.

I think you all see what I'm getting at here.

[red5angel]

DS, I havent had time to read response to your post but here is my take on it. If someone thinks its Neanderthalic or whatever, I know they are mistaken. I know my art takes alot of mental skill as well as physical. There are a bazillion reasons why people do it, some rare few assume we do it so we can beat others up. To those people I say fukk off.
There is a tkd chick at my work here and we were out in the courtyard talking about our arts, and one of her freinds turns to me, not both of us, ME, and says something along the lines of "Great, another testosterone filled bully." My jaw dropped and then so did the hammer, I hit her twice in the chin before she knew what was coming and managed to get my right leg onto her kneecap, pressing her leg backwards and popping the joint. She yelled a little which was the opening I needed to get hold of her larynx and put her on the ground. I said next time she said something so ignorant or idiotic I would tear it out. Or something like that anwyay, I am sure you get the point ;)

[Ford Prefect]

Can I be the warden?

[red5angel]

Whats this pussification of the american male crap? I am american and male and no one ever accused me of being a pu$$y. You girls have got to pull up your slips and be men without worrying about it. Most men arent knuckle dragging bags of testosterone waiting to pop. If you are one of these guys who has be pussified then thats your own fault!
Seriously why worry about what these guys and girls think? Most people dont care or dont have any real opinion. Most of the people I have met think its kind of neat. Regardless you wont see me cradling some sort of milquetoast who thinks I am a thug because I practice a martial arts, it just telle me he/she has to get out more.

[KC Elbows]

...cafeteria cat fights...rioting women getting the hose...

[red5angel]

..mmmmmmm ...rioting women....hose.......mmmmmmmmm

[Serpent]

I've got a hose that could start a riot.

[{i^(]

R5A:"Most men arent knuckle dragging bags of testosterone waiting to pop. If you are one of these guys who has be pussified then thats your own fault!
Seriously why worry about what these guys and girls think? Most people dont care or dont have any real opinion. Most of the people I have met think its kind of neat. Regardless you wont see me cradling some sort of milquetoast who thinks I am a thug because I practice a martial arts, it just telle me he/she has to get out more."

OMG! For once, something I completely agree with. And you spelled milquetoast right....OMG!!

[DelicateSound]

This thread's going pretty well actually.

Serpent - that billboard you were saying is a PRIME example.

My point exactly.

[Ford Prefect]

First let me say that I already have dibs on being warden, so I am responsible for "punishing" said inmates...

Red5,

I hear ya. I just brought up the point because now a days I see so many overly emotional, whiney little men. Just looking at children's sporting events where parents go crazy and the way people drive has me shaking my head. (Even most of the crap on this forum sounds like a discussion at an old women's knitting circle with all the cat fighting) Nobody has control over themselves and their emotions anymore. Be it fear, anger, rage, ego, etc. I just wish I knew what part of society is creating such maladjusted, insecure people. Anyway, this is my second post bringing it up and I feel like I'm starting to whine, so see ya!

[Helicopter]

This tension between the sexes is all a load of bollocks cooked up by the popular media to sell advertising space.

Unfortunately too many people accept what they read in the papers, the only emasculation of men are plummeting sperm counts.

Posters of men in submissive roles bears no relationship to my personal view of the world, just as 'Women's Prison Movies' have nothing to do with my partners view of the world, and vice versa.

(ps. I have nothing against Women's Prison Movies. I especially have nothing against scenes in the laundry room where the detainees get so hot they have to take-off their overalls.)

[Helicopter]

from: "As good as it gets"

Receptionist: 'How do you write women so well?'

Melvin (Jack): 'Easy. I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.'


My partner hated how hard I laughed at that line.

[guohuen]

My wife hates this one.
"If a man speaks in the forest and no women hear him, is he still wrong?"

[red5angel]

Face - LOL! I can be reasonable at times....

Here is my whole take on it. My wife say I have a good mix of strong and emotional. I am a strong man, not a whole lot phases me emotionally or mentally. But there is a time and a place to let it all hang out. I can talk openly with my wife about my fears or worries, but at the same time I do what I have to do and I get done what is needed.
Its about finding a good balance. sorry Face but I have to agree with you again here:
"Nobody knows how to be a standup guy anymore. "

This I think is the key, its balance. You can be a strong man and stil be sensitive, just dont be a blubbering idiot for god sakes! If you are in the martial arts and someone is telling you they dont like it, who cares? If its your wife or your girlfreind, who cares?! I told my wife while we wer still dating that if we were to get married she would have to accept MA as a part of my life. fortunately she is one of those girls that sort of thinks its sexy ;) and she has seen me doing it in a kilt!

[The Willow Sword]

banding together. we need more stuff like this to counteract, in a positive way, the feminazi rhetoric.

Yes its OKAY to be a MAN. in fact because i love women,despite my abusive upringing, i wouldnt have it any other way.

I believe that we cannot truly capture the essence of who we are as Men unless there is a woman present. and vice versa.

so to all you Good Men ,,,neanderthals,,,wussies,,,,heros,,,fat...skinny, ,,steroid heads,,,,,,and all other men who do good things and occasionally fuk up(not seriously though) I raise my glass of Guiness and chug in our honor.

Many Respects,,,,The Willow Sword

[ewallace]

I agree that balance, like most other things is the key. For instance, I'm trying to fix the entertainment center when my wife walks in after having a bad day at work. I listen to her story, and instead of giving her advice (which most women claim to hate), I simply listened and was empathetic to her situation. Then after she was done, I took the hammer and started pounding the crap out of a screw that just wouldn't fit. When she asked what the hell I was doing, I told her that dam.n screw was going to go in whether it likes it or not.

[BeiKongHui]

Is that they had an opportunity to change the culture and bring the compassionate, nurturing aspects (or yin if you will) of the female into an active place in society. Instead most chose to be Good Ol' boys with t!ts and exhibited in droves the negative qualities of the male. Proving that the problem is still, as has always been, those in power be they white, black, male, female,etc.

[rubthebuddha]

ewallace -- now that's balance. empathy AND assertiveness. i like it.

did that screw ever go in?

[ewallace]

did that screw ever go in?
Bet your ass it did. :)

[Sharky]

yeah, everyone thinks my training is dumb.

they don't mind it when i use it to save their asses however (i'm forever sorting out other peoples fisticuffs for them).

And who's the first person they turn to when **** hits the fan?

Exactly.