A thread about fighting strategy...

[MonkeySlap Too]

What strategies do you use, and what tactics come from your strategy to fight a much larger, skilled opponent?

Example - a 5'5" guy against a skilled seven footer who knows enough to keep his legs out of range?

I ask this question because it presents obviuos problems with controlling the bridge or door on the way in - the bigger guy can rain destruction down upon you.

I recently coached one of my students on just this scenario, and I am curious what solutions come from the internal camp.

[Liokault]

If the 5'5 guy gets to his punching range past the 7 foot guy then he has a huge advantage.

Im 5'9 and the tallest i have sparred with was a 6'7 boxer and my above theory proved pretty much true.

[MonkeySlap Too]

That of course only works when the bigger guy doesn't keep you in his zone, and entering past that zone involves controlling the bridge.

How do you control the bridge?

[HuangKaiVun]

I'm 5'5".

My "internal" strategy: pick up a weapon and start beating up the guy in front of me.

[count]

If I tell you I have to kill you. Seriously, no particular strategy. Training always emphasising specific strengths for the individual. I am tall so I focus on Hawk and Phoenix techniques but don't ignore anything, We are taught constant movement and constant change. We are taught following a strategy is like aiming. If you do it it's too late.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

At the risk of sounding trite and getting flamed i'll try to express my understanding of apparent "mis-matches"..

My experience leads me to believe that rather than a "strategy", stay calm and get with the process that is unfolding.. hopefully, your training has been absorbed internally, and you can engage the conflict more like a dance, moving in harmony with your partner's intentions until opportunity offers you the advantage.. which reminds me of the quote, "success is when preparation meets opportunity".. Strategies are inherently flawed, they leave gaps whenever the opponent acts outside the parameters of the strategy..

That being said, i do tend to take lower stances against much taller opponents.. they tend to lean forward to get to me.. a snapping grab to the lead hand will often pull them off balance, then, while they are using torso muscles for correcting balance, you can raise your stance adding leg power as you issue energy somewhat more effectively into the mid-section, setting up a leg behind their stance to stumble them as they retreat from the surprise.. not so much a strategy as the profits from experience..

anyway, just another perspective from the Far-side..
Be well...

[miscjinx]

Strategy...hard one as I am the big guy usually...

A little guy has a huge advantage up close...his knee and elbow range. He can eat the room up that the bigger guy needs to move. Also I would suggest throws...as the little guys hips are so low, he does have the advantage there - and being close helps as well.

How to get in...stick and adhere. As I ,for example, attack the little guy needs to get a hand on me and follow it back or slide in or grap and pull himself in (as I would be heavier so he couldn't pull me as easily)...he would feel it counter and would compensate.

Also I would suggest weak points...for example, grab a big guys pinky in a finger lock and you could lead him around...a bigger finger or wrist may be too strong - but I haven't seen one big guy strong arm a correctly applied pinky lock (hurts like ****) - I have felt it more than once (we need a big guy you say...can I pass this time).

Strategy would be to use the big guy's strengths against him and optimize his weaknesses. These are just a few I am familiar with.

[Bladework]

Hello,

As always in fighting, there's the running option.

If not, looking for equalizers: weapons, friends, etc.

And if push comes to shove and you're in a truly hand to hand situation, sticking close and going all out.

What's that saying? "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog".

Sorry if this sounds contrite. Whenever I see these type of questions, I always assume it's a true fight, as oppose to some friends or classmates getting together and sparring.

[Walter Joyce]

Isn't this thread a re-tread. I saw the same question asked months ago, just slightly different wording. Try visiting the archives, or reading Sun Tzu.

[Ray Pina]

"Nobody fights capital to capital."

[black and blue]

Irregardless of whether this thread is new, Walter...

The blasted Germans DID bomb London, my Cap, EvolutionFist.

:)

[Walter Joyce]

black and blue...

ahh the persistence of ignorance, the tenacity, the sheer STUPIDITY ....( my caps) LOL
:cool:

[black and blue]

Little man busts a CAP in Big man's knee CAP.

Everyone should fight CAP to CAP.

Now... don't even start me on Europe's CAP (Common Agricultural Policy.... bloody farmers)!

:D

[Ray Pina]

How did that strategy work out for Germany? Didn't they even try to go and press greater into Soviet territory without first seezing control, advantage.

I've been trying to limit my posts to very vague concepts to avoid getting hooked by trolls, but ...

I thought someone would have asked for a better idea of what that theory means, but I guess those with experience understood. I didn't bother going further because I realise now, when you share soemthing that really works, like a concept like you can't hit me but I can hit you, people don't believe it. And well, that's great. I'm stingy. I recently learned from my Chinese friends that the Chinese "Peace" symbol I've been wearing can also translate as stingy or cheap. Fine. I play my cards close to chest.

Black and Blue, a better retort would have been using Al-Quaedas attack on the Pentagon as an example of capital attack. That would have had more merit.

But, I would have responded that they first knew their enemy, found the weak spot to infiltrate and then took advantage. This is exactly what Not Fighting Capital To Capital means.

Point? My master's method will get to your head -- or throat -- believe me. But we are smart enough to see the danger of just throwing out blows in the hopes that we are tougher then the other.

Look at the long arm as a tree. Chop it down were you can reach, the entire tree will come down.

[black and blue]

I WAS KIDDING :rolleyes: , not necessarily searching for a better example to offer more merit to my joke... it was a joke :) Walter Joyce seemed tickled too.

But as for you (your Sifu's) concept... I'm in agreement. I practice Wing Chun, and if I remember correctly, you had a brief stint in the art....

So you'll know, "you can't hit me but I can hit you" is something Wing Chunners focus on. So too is "My master's method will get to your head -- or throat -- believe me. But we are smart enough to see the danger of just throwing out blows in the hopes that we are tougher then the other".

Angles, covering, dominating the gates, yielding, weight transferance... all allow for the above. I always assume I'm not tougher than the other man.

All in all, the essence of "Receive what comes, escort what leaves, on loss of contact press forward".

Duncan

Ps. EF... checked out your sifu's site... you guys simply have to put up some jpegs and mpegs. I'd love to see them.

[Ray Pina]

I assumed your comment was tongue-in-cheek, but concerning martial strategy, I didn't want to take a chance and wanted to keep things straight.

I'm a fan of Wing Chun. I spent about 3 years with it before getting sucked into S. Mantis.

Things are a bit different though, especially concerning "cover". I view "cover" as a waisted movement and a danferous position. I look at an extended arm covering as inefficant for 1) it's not hitting, and 2) being extended like that, even in fuk sau, it can be lifted qyuite easily if the other mainatains a strong structure and then hits.

Wing Chun is good though, probbaly the best for giving one a good understanding of principles in a relatively short period of time.

But, another little tidbit my master says often (hey, wisdom should be shared) is, "I have money, Bill Gates has money, don't say we are the same."

I want to add that its important to know how soft one is, how hard they can get and how fast they can get hard. How long can they keep it hard, but, being the jokester that you are, I feel I open myself up for some porno remark. ;)

Did you hear about O.J. 's new porno? I heard about it on the radio this morning. Him and two penthouse pets. What a life this guy is living.

Well, pleasure making your aquaintance. :)

[black and blue]

Glad we are have an understanding regarding the jokes :D

Covering is something I thought Bagua guys did too (shielding... in as much as you practise breaking down a shield), though I guess I'm wrong.

I don't see it as a wasted movement (I see it as a pre-emptive one) and I don't see it as dangerous... (I see it as safe).

One of Yip Man's students, Duncan Leung, once described 'covering' as:

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"When you see an attack coming at you and you react to stop the attack, that is blocking. When you feel there is a space around you open for a possible attack and you shield it off even if there is nothing coming, that is covering.

"Blocking is always one step behind your opponent because your opponent initiates the attack first and covering is one step ahead of your opponent because you are already in the space that he can possibly attack.

"For example, in fighting, when I throw a punch with my lead hand and someone does a pak sau on my outside arm (or snaps my arm down) instead of fighting against the force as in blocking I will let my forearm go down with him and my elbow will rise up to become a bon sau and jam forward as a first defense. With my other arm, automatically I will cover my open area with a tan sau behind the bon sau as the secondary defense (cover). In other words you have two covers. I am covering the space that I could possibly get hit (the upper part of my body). Because he is knocking my hand down he is not going to hit me low. If he knocks my hand down and does punch me my arm will stop his attacking hand and if he does not punch, my hand is there covering the space anyway. All this training is basically from chi sau."

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So, in my opinion EvolutionFist... if I cover I help protect my gates by closing down potential attacking angles. Those same angles are also often present in reverse (i.e. I can also attack along the same line). By covering I not only protect vulnerable points, I also have my hands in a better position to attack from.

But hey! I try and make my WC as simple, direct and efficient as possible... so I hope I'm not adding too many wasted movements.

I will turn off my automatic response to innuendo :), and say that I want to be both hard and soft. Relaxed in order to be pliable, and have energy with split-second tension at the moment my attack makes contact. But maybe that's not what you meant :confused:

[Ray Pina]

I think its a matter or name or definition.

Cover sounds a little too polite, for me. Like fuk sua, say. Or tan sau.

I'd prefer to hit, then, sliiping inside is Tan Sau, slipping outside is fuk sau cover. But even that fuk sau "cover" AFTER HITTING, I shoot that entire section -- writst to elbow -- in for another hit, controlling with the elbow.

But variety is the spice of life, eh? The thing I like about MA is that everyone is different, and two people may aplly the same exact understanding differently. That's why I enjoy mixing it up, like getting to know a stranger.

Well, enjoy your weekend. I'm hitting up the town tonight in Manhattan after training. Hopefully get to know some strangers better -- female of course;)

[No_Know]

Punch the limbs ; watch for knees and their extentions Unless you Want to fight, don't follow. Learn person's timing and repeated techniques. Establish the distances.~