Rant: chin na and bjj

[SevenStar]

people say "in bjj you only wrestle around a ring trying to tap someone", yet chin na is supposed to be wildly effective. wtf? Do they not realize that the tapping is only a tap because you don't want to get something broken or get choked out? the arrogance that abounds in alot of cma ****es me off to the fullest extent of ****tivity.

[fa_jing]

Do wrist locks exist in BJJ? I think the emphasis in Qin Na is small joint manipulations. I would definitely look twice at someone that tried to doubt BJJ's effectiveness, other than coming up with situations where you can't use it "A ninja left caltrops lying all over the floor." :D

[SevenStar]

bjj does manipulate the wrist, although it's not a major target. There are various armbars and shoulder locking attacks that, when fought, leave the wrist open, in which case, you manipulate it. It's used mainly to make them stop fighting the armbar or shoulder manipulation, but can also be used to tap someone.

[Merryprankster]

Can wrist locks work? Yes. Are they high percentage? No. I've tapped out a few people to wrist locks, but the truth is that there are too many degrees of freedom of movment for them to work frequently and well. I usually get them off of armbars that are being defended well, or I'll attack them to open something else up. You'd be surprised how hard a finger lock is to get.

Aikido experts, feel free to flame away, as I'm sure I've upset some basic mindset here. Of course, remember we aren't all Ueshiba, slightly imbalanced, and didn't spend 21 hours a day practicing...

[Ford Prefect]

I think they are higher percentage than we give them credit for. I tapped twice to wrist locks (same guy same day) when I first started BJJ, but after I knew what to look for, I never tapped to one again. That went likewise for newbies I ended up tapping. It's difficult to get that control over an opponent when they know what to look for.

[Water Dragon]

In my experience, it is easier to manipulate some joints standing (wrist, fingers, neck, spine) and easier to manipulate others on the ground (elbow, shoulder, knee, ankle).

I have no idea why this is though :confused:

[kenso]

Given BJJ's roots in Judo it's easy to see why small joint manipulations aren't used. In Judo competition, you aren't allowed to attack any joint below the elbow. Some BJJ schools have added them as a side area of study it seems, but I don't know how proficient they really are at them.
Small joint manipulations often rely on body positioning to prevent escape or reversal; that's one reason they can be very difficult to apply on the ground.

[yenhoi]

Chin na is chinese, so it is obviously more mystically chi powered and superior to anything a half wit brazillian guy came up with.

Most people dont even get quality kung-fu training, and when they do, most systems lack the chin na, or dont train realistically, or on resisting opponents, etc, etc, same old arguments of kung-fu vs bjj/mma.

Tibetan(sp?) Snake Boxing is superior.

[SevenStar]

I'll take cheese, but only if it's meunster or provolone

[mysteri]

as a martial artist, i respect BJJ and think its highly effective. its jus to the point, like a lot of systems, where its become very popular and highly commercialized(like wing chun). i honestly dont think there are a plethora of good wing chun teachers/fighters do a lot to the fact that u get these bozo's that got half of their trainin from a halfway decent teacher(like maybe a few years worth tops) and the other half from a plethora of WC videos and then turn around to open up schools. i feel the same about BJJ, and a lot of other arts as well. too many people have made it out to be somethin that its not and what it is is jus another art. why are u trippin, doesnt BJJ ulimately derive from the dim mak/chin na that a chinese master bought to japan which in turn spawned the beginnin of the 3 main schools of grapplin in JMA? and some brazilians jus adapted some of the japanese JJ(which has MANY many schools btw.) techniques and specialized in ground fighting? where's the conflict? jus my 2 cents..

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by kenso

Small joint manipulations often rely on body positioning to prevent escape or reversal; that's one reason they can be very difficult to apply on the ground.


Body positioning and immobilization of the opponent are most effective when you are on the ground.

[SevenStar]

dim mak? in bjj? no.

"i honestly dont think there are a plethora of good wing chun teachers/fighters do a lot to the fact that u get these bozo's that got half of their trainin from a halfway decent teacher(like maybe a few years worth tops) and the other half from a plethora of WC videos and then turn around to open up schools. i feel the same about BJJ, and a lot of other arts as well. too many people have made it out to be somethin that its not and what it is is jus another art. "

That's where arts like bjj and judo are different. They compete. if the stuff they were learning was crappy, they would consistently lose. That's why it's harder to have fraudulent bjj or mma schools. If the material sucks, it will be brought to the light.

What was brought to japan is what is now karate, not jujutsu.

And there is no conflict. I just think it's flicted that some cma think that chin na is all about combat and the armbars, chokes, wrist and leglocks in bjj are only to make you tap. If they gave any thought to it, they would see that it's not to hard to break the boneor choke them out instead of merely tapping them.

[Serpent]

Sevenstar, I hear what you're saying, but you're not totally correct. Karate wasn't the only result of teachings coming out of China. JuJitsu is just as much a result of the Chinese methods as karate, as far as I know. Anybody care to correct me or back me up on that?

[KnightSabre]

SevenStar,

You've become quite the defender of BJJ,I dig it :)

It's nice yo see that there are other (no troll) people that are passionate about BJJ.

Did you hear about Nogiera 232 pounds beating Bobb Sapp 370 pounds by arm bar yesterday,just goes to show how BJJ can overcome far superior size and strength.

[Former castleva]

I bet they tap out in CMA too,that is a common tactic among MA in general.
When the pressure is getting too high,it is seen to be better to tap than scream (quite basic,huh...just had to write that out)
At least theoretically,chin-na is an area so large that it would make it´s own art pretty easily,and many arts do a bunch of it.
Only in basic joint manipulation there are-finger,wrist,elbow,shoulder.There is also a bit of waist,back and neck,some leg/foot stuff maybe...no toes.

When it comes to aikido,wrist,elbow and shoulder are trained in locks/pins.

[SifuAbel]

Just to add my $1.50(thats 2 cents after inflation).

Chin na is more than wrist locks. Most of the time you see a wrist grab or trap in order to "climb" to the rest of the arm, shoulder and head. Chin na in CMA is also mostly with the aim to throw, break or lead to a strike. It isn't intended as a means in itself. There is pining to the ground in chin na as well.

The above is not to disparage BJJ.

Most who try to say one is superior to another is missing the point entirely. And, mostly stated by those whom have experience in one but not the other. It is after all the person that wins the fight not the means.

[SevenStar]

Yeah, somewhere along the line I stepped to the darkside. :)

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by SifuAbel
Just to add my $1.50(thats 2 cents after inflation).

Chin na is more than wrist locks. Most of the time you see a wrist grab or trap in order to "climb" to the rest of the arm, shoulder and head. Chin na in CMA is also mostly with the aim to throw, break or lead to a strike. It isn't intended as a means in itself. There is pining to the ground in chin na as well.

The above is not to disparage BJJ.

Most who try to say one is superior to another is missing the point entirely. And, mostly stated by those whom have experience in one but not the other. It is after all the person that wins the fight not the means.

exactly. That was beautiful.

[SifuAbel]

It may be, but it goes both ways. There are a lot of misconceptions about chin na.

[No_Know]

"the arrogance that abounds in alot of cma ****es me off to the fullest extent of ****tivity."

j/k~ So that's why you don't write me anymore.


"I think the emphasis in Qin Na is small joint manipulations. "

I think the emphasis in Chin-Na is to seize and or or to control. No pivot aljoint is beyond the attention of a Chin-Na-ist. Many are finding Chin-Na through S tyle that is mostly partially Chin-Na. This exposes the student to Chin-Na but not the full range of Chin-Na.

"I would definitely look twice at someone that tried to doubt BJJ's effectiveness, other than coming up with situations where you can't use it "A ninja left caltrops lying all over the floor.""

A Brazilian Juijitsuist in the hallway performs a leg take down dropping the opponent on the opponent's back in the caltrop filled room. Useful.

"I think they are higher percentage than we give them credit for. I tapped twice to wrist locks (same guy same day) when I first started BJJ, but after I knew what to look for, I never tapped to one again. That went likewise for newbies I ended up tapping. It's difficult to get that control over an opponent when they know what to look for."

I think MerryPrankster deals moreoften with people at least fairly
in the know. So like you, Ford Perfect, perhaps they also don't allow themselves to have to tap out for a wrist lock. That observation might bring the consideration that wrist locks are low percentage. But high percentage against the inexperienced?

"In my experience, it is easier to manipulate some joints standing (wrist, fingers, neck, spine) and easier to manipulate others on the ground (elbow, shoulder, knee, ankle).

I have no idea why this is though "

There is room to absorb the strike standing. The body can more-so turn to loosen the grip or stretch the limb better. And there is freer movement to access the spine or neck~. On the ground, the spines become accessable to the range of arm length and gravith and the person on you keeps you from going forward enough to get the neck or spine control. Elbows and shoulders are given to you as they attack or support themselves.

The ankle is one of the furthest away joints when standing but moe-so the weight of the body over the foot would make it less easy to manipulate. The knees are closeby and become the new support system for the on on top in general. getting the knee redirects their attention and affects their stability.~

"Small joint manipulations often rely on body positioning to prevent escape or reversal; that's one reason they can be very difficult to apply on the ground."

That makes~ sense~. But how many small joints are accessable from the ground while being aggressed against? Which would you say? (mostly rhetorical).

"Did you hear about Nogiera 232 pounds beating Bobb Sapp 370 pounds by arm bar yesterday,just goes to show how BJJ can overcome far superior size and strength."

If Kung-Fu or Arnis uses an armbar, does that then show how BJJ can overcome far superior size and strength? (more to make a point than to ask a question)

[Ford Prefect]

No_Know,

I'd find it hard to believe that Merry trains with people more in the know considering I trained with a Black Belt from Gracie Barra (Very good friend and cousin to Renzo Gracie). I see he's from DC which basically means either Yamasaki or Irvin who are both great teachers as well, but there is no way you could label either of us as training more with people in "the know".

Well, actually he does now considering I haven't trained at my old BJJ school for quite a while now. ;p

[Merryprankster]

I think what he's trying to say Ford, is that we BOTH deal with people in the know, so maybe our perspective on wrist locks is different.

[KnightSabre]

"Did you hear about Nogiera 232 pounds beating Bobb Sapp 370 pounds by arm bar yesterday,just goes to show how BJJ can overcome far superior size and strength."

If Kung-Fu or Arnis uses an armbar, does that then show how BJJ can overcome far superior size and strength? (more to make a point than to ask a question)

No_Know, the fact that Nogiera is a BJJ black belt and learnt that technique from his BJJ instructor clearly tells you that it was BJJ that he used.If he had beaten the guy with a jumping spinning heel kick (something not taught in BJJ) then I couldn't credit that tech to BJJ.

[Ford Prefect]

Well, then screw you buddy! You're not the boss of me, capisce? If I ever catch you wising off again...



j/k :)

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by SifuAbel
It may be, but it goes both ways. There are a lot of misconceptions about chin na.

I agree. My rant is because of what I hear. I hear cma guys downing bjj. even though I know there are bjj guys that down chin na, none of the ones that I deal with do that.

[fa_jing]

Originally posted by SevenStar
I'll take cheese, but only if it's meunster or provolone

What?? no Gouda, Swiss, Brie, Blue, Jarlsburg, Sheep's Milk, Havarti, Mozzarella, Parmesan, Romano, Feta??

Avast Ye, Thread Hijackers! (ducks)

[rogue]

Sevenstar, I hear what you're saying, but you're not totally correct. Karate wasn't the only result of teachings coming out of China. JuJitsu is just as much a result of the Chinese methods as karate, as far as I know. Anybody care to correct me or back me up on that? Firstly Japanese karate is more a result of Okinawan teachings than Chinese since Funokoshi only brought it over there in the 1920's. Though you could argue that it's Chinese by extension.
I believe that while JJJ may have gotten it's start with Chinese systems it evolved into it's own art, with it's own training methods and techniques a very long time ago. I do remember that there are scholars trying to see if they can find a link between JJJ and one or more CMA but I don't remember if they've found anything concrete. What I find interesting is that the empty hand CMA didn't influence Japan much more than they did.

Hijack over.

[kenso]

Firstly Japanese karate is more a result of Okinawan teachings than Chinese since Funokoshi only brought it over there in the 1920's. Though you could argue that it's Chinese by extension.

I will argue this. :D It's fairly well documented that Okinawan Karate has its roots in Chinese Boxing, specifically from Fuchow as well as the indigenous ti. If you compare the boxing from that region and traditional karate you will see strong resemblances. For instance the use of the Sanchin form. Japanese Jujutsu on the other hand seems to have little in common with Chinese arts, and appears to be mostly indigenous. There are records of Japanese grappling dating back to antiquity (circa 700AD).


Body positioning and immobilization of the opponent are most effective when you are on the ground.

I guess what I was trying to say is that small joint manipulations often require different types of body positioning than large joint.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by SifuAbel
Just to add my $1.50(thats 2 cents after inflation).


FYI, with the economy the way it is, that advice may be worth either $ 2.75 or $.005 pretty soon. Better to give your advice in gold right now ;)

[qeySuS]

i´m jumping on the BJJ bandwagon as well, go bjj!

[Tigerstyle]

kenso,
I think rogue is implying that Karate spread to Japan through Okinawa, but he didn't necessarily imply that Okinawan methods were not influenced by Chinese boxing. When he says, "...Though you could argue that it's Chinese by extension," I think he means that Japanese Karate was influenced by kung fu by way of Okinawa.


"Did you hear about Nogiera 232 pounds beating Bobb Sapp 370 pounds by arm bar yesterday,just goes to show how BJJ can overcome far superior size and strength."

If Kung-Fu or Arnis uses an armbar, does that then show how BJJ can overcome far superior size and strength?

No_Know,
Not necessarily. The "victory by armbar" detail in that statement could be more of an abridged way of implying that he was using BJJ (by citing a technique found in BJJ). That way the statement doesn't sound too general ("x beat y. Just goes to show..." :confused: How did he win? By KO?). It is also easier than saying, "Did you hear about X defeating Y by working on his back from the guard position until an arm was exposed, and then going for a triangle choke, but taking the armbar during Y's triangle defense. Just goes to show..." :eek:

The armbar wasn't performed in a vaccuum devoid of any other factors/techniques, and Nogiera is a BJJ practitioner (I think. I don't know him, and I'm making that assumption based on the tone of the quote.). That would mean that Nogiera most likely had to use the skills he learned in BJJ (positioning, leverage, etc.) to set up and ultimately succeed with the armbar.

He wasn't saying "...only BJJ can overcome far superior size and strength." Nor was he implying that the armbar is exclusively a BJJ technique. It was more to point out that BJJ worked in that instance. Also, I know that you weren't trying to imply that that's what was meant by the statement. I just like to type (it would seem :) ).

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by fa_jing


What?? no Gouda, Swiss, Brie, Blue, Jarlsburg, Sheep's Milk, Havarti, Mozzarella, Parmesan, Romano, Feta??

Avast Ye, Thread Hijackers! (ducks)

I would not eat that in a hat,
I would not eat it holding a bat
I would not eat it with my wife,
I don't want those cheeses in my life.

[fa_jing]

Your loss, bro. Your loss.:D

[fa_jing]

Velveeta????

[wiz cool c]

in ufc 3 there was an alternate, a kung fu guy named felix lee mitchel. he fought ken shamrock. he did pretty good considering he wasn't a professional fighter. he lasted 4 or 5 minutes. he had a good base. shamrock couldn't get him down until the end of the fight. He landed some good elbows and knees and if you watch the fight closely you'll see at one point shamrock was behind filix attempting a choke and felix was trying to do a chin na technique on shamrock's wrist. it didn't work, but it was a good try. Also when they fell to the ground after 4 minutes they landed with filix in a half guard. if filix knew any ground fighting he would have held this position and probably could have lasted a another minute or so, but he didn't and shamrock just got behind him and put on a choke.

[SevenStar]

Velveeta is the best cheese there is!:D

[omegapoint]

Originally posted by kenso


I will argue this. :D It's fairly well documented that Okinawan Karate has its roots in Chinese Boxing, specifically from Fuchow as well as the indigenous ti. If you compare the boxing from that region and traditional karate you will see strong resemblances. For instance the use of the Sanchin form. Japanese Jujutsu on the other hand seems to have little in common with Chinese arts, and appears to be mostly indigenous. There are records of Japanese grappling dating back to antiquity (circa 700AD).


2 Daoists, Zhang Sanfeng and Feng Yiyuan, formulated the original Chin Na concepts. Being acupuncturists/Chinese Physicians they had a keen understanding of the workings of the human body. A disciple of Feng, Chen Yuanbin, arrived in Nagasaki, Japan in 1638, where he served at the castle of the Owari Daimyo. Being an expert in Dian Xue/Qin Na he was asked to teach his art to Fukuno Shichiroemon, Miura Yojiemon and Isogai Jirozaemon, who created the original 3 schools of Jujutsu. There were grapplers prior to this as well as Samurai who learned kenjutsu (which had few empty hand techs). Sumo was around prior to this, but it can be said that the "scientific" approach to pp striking and grappling was not introduced until this time. Today most schools of JJJ have lost their Dian Xue skills and replaced it with Atemi Waza, which may or may not include strategic pp strikes.

All MAs are of Chinese derivation. All Chinese arts are of Indian derivation. The Indian arts were probably of Persian lineage which traveled via Greek fighting concepts which in turn, came from Egyptian fighting techs.

So, all MAs are really African as are all people. Round-and-round it goes....

[OdderMensch]

you have said a great many things on this forum, earning my respect and admiration. And I hate to get picky with the details of such matters. However limited my knowlege may be on grappling, chin na and the like there is one thing I must ask.




















is velvetta even a cheese?

[SevenStar]

actually.... velveeta is a cheese food. a cheese food while called cheese technically isn't, becaus it has oil and water and stuff in it. However, if you cook, especially dishes like mac & cheese, you know that velveeta melts better than any cheese and is creamier than any other cheese food. Velveeta is excellent! :D

[Chang Style Novice]

melts better: check

tastes like cheese: are you out of your mind?

[SevenStar]

I never said it tasted like cheese. taste wise, I like meunster...dunno why, I just do.

[fa_jing]

Ever since that time my dad brought home a big block of Velveeta from the "Free Cheese and Butter club" I just can't even stand the thought....:D

[Water Dragon]

Ahhh Velveeta

The Wing Chun of cheese :D

[SevenStar]

I think I'd consider it more the MMA of cheese. if it were the wing chun, we'd have to debate over it's lineage, and how well it's been aged. sharp cheddar is probably the wing chun of cheeses:D

[fa_jing]

Well, let's see. Mass-produced? Check. Diluted? At times. A superior mix of pre-existing cheeses? Check. Claims as to who holds the original, secret recipe for Velveeta, debated endlessly over the internet? Could be. Velveeta producers at each other's throats, fighting for market share? Bound to happen. Velveeta taken down and pummeled by a sharp cheddar with little experience? Impossible! True Velveeta has no weaknesses, it is based on chemical reactions.


Overheard at the local Cheese meet:
That's not real Velveeta! That's "Government surplus Cheese product." We have the real Velveeta, it is available to you in private lessons, 100 dollars per ingredient.


:p

[Braden]

Emmanthal = pasta cheese.
(Real) Parmesian = cracker cheese.
Sharp cheddar = bread cheese.

If you don't believe me or don't know what I'm talking about, give them a try. Mmmmm cheese... so good.

Oh yeah, and

Cheese curds = gravy and french fry cheese.

[SevenStar]

parmesan on a cracker? that's a new one to me. One a funny sidenote, my son can't say parmesan. he calls it pappa john.

[Water Dragon]

Who you callin' Cracka :mad:

[Braden]

Oh yes.

Real parmesian though, not the powder.

Try it!

[SevenStar]

I was referring to the saltines sitting next to the white bread

[SevenStar]

I was referring to the saltines sitting next to the white bread and oreos :D

[fa_jing]

Mayonaisse on wonder bread, anyone?

[Water Dragon]

Shut up Cracker











:D :D :D

[No_Know]

It was my concept that Velveta was cheeseS.

Even with Pangea, if there was a single place from which all came the different camps of humanity did some development all on their own basically. They did not not fight until African Martialarts could spread and Greece would only use part of that And Egypt got it from Greece and the rest of Africa and took what they preferred of it and thenn India faals in line This general concept while cute as things seems Also seems lacking. India's martial arts are too intwined with their religion (the one of ...a hundred or more?) of which I heard to have been used widely by the Chinese area peoples. Exercises from India would be more likely used by the Chinese area peoples. But The individual regions even vilages to families to people incorporated or came-up with the fighting which became eventually Chinese Kung-Fu or the such.

Perhaps some might say whatever whatever very whatever very good.

[SevenStar]

hey cracka, are you trying to hijack my already hijacked thread? either talk about chin na vs grappling, cheese, crackers or go home!:D :D

[omegapoint]

Originally posted by No_Know
It was my concept that Velveta was cheeseS.

Even with Pangea, if there was a single place from which all came the different camps of humanity did some development all on their own basically. They did not not fight until African Martialarts could spread and Greece would only use part of that And Egypt got it from Greece and the rest of Africa and took what they preferred of it and thenn India faals in line This general concept while cute as things seems Also seems lacking. India's martial arts are too intwined with their religion (the one of ...a hundred or more?) of which I heard to have been used widely by the Chinese area peoples. Exercises from India would be more likely used by the Chinese area peoples. But The individual regions even vilages to families to people incorporated or came-up with the fighting which became eventually Chinese Kung-Fu or the such.

Perhaps some might say whatever whatever very whatever very good.

I doubt there were any people living on Pangea. Well maybe Atlanteans and evolved dinosaur folks (see Sleestaks). Religion and fighting is a uniquely Indian concept? I don't think so.

It's all African (even cheese), but goats milk cheese is preferred in the original land.

This entire thread and forum is cheezy. Something draws me here though. It must be No-Knows inability to use proper syntax and punctuation. That and the embarrasingly low mean IQ of a KFO poster. Where's the Xanax? No-Know.

[SifuAbel]

There were no known mammals that date back to the pangea era. The eariliest known true mammal was millions of years later. A small 1 inch creature that lived in the trees. Supposedly, the ancestor to all mammals land and sea.

[ewallace]

Who you callin' Cracka
You tatter nuts!

[No_Know]

Pangaea is still here. That theory is the basis for tectonic plates (shifting/drifting).

Continents was not poof! automatic one second Pangaea, next second, continents. And Oh Poof life on the continents...

At whatever point Human type life happened when the one land was one piece or breaking or broken and drifting or drifting, If the land was close enough people likely spread and since this happened over lots of years they didnot necessarily wait for Africa to make up stuff to use for fighting...His premis of all starting in Africa area~ seems not sound.

By the way, Egypt is African.

[Chang Style Novice]

While external, or 'hard' cheese styles like Cheddar, Parmesan, and Swiss are more common, and certainly effective enough in their own ways, it is the internal or 'soft' cheese styles such as Brie, Roquefort, and Paneer that have a more pungent and long lasting effect. Modernized Melting Assisted (MMA) semi cheese-stuffs such as american singles, 'nacho spread' and velveeta attempt to combine the softness of the internal cheeses with the accessible flavors of the external cheeses, but don't really achieve either, despite the fact that they have successfully marketed themselves to uncultured lowlifes with mass marketing and lowest common denominator retail positioning.

In the end, anyone with a true love of cheese is going to return to the traditional styles and while they may hop from one style to another, they will still experience the depth and flavor of these time-honored dairy products.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
While external, or 'hard' cheese styles like Cheddar, Parmesan, and Swiss are more common, and certainly effective enough in their own ways, it is the internal or 'soft' cheese styles such as Brie, Roquefort, and Paneer that have a more pungent and long lasting effect. Modernized Melting Assisted (MMA) semi cheese-stuffs such as american singles, 'nacho spread' and velveeta attempt to combine the softness of the internal cheeses with the accessible flavors of the external cheeses, but don't really achieve either, despite the fact that they have successfully marketed themselves to uncultured lowlifes with mass marketing and lowest common denominator retail positioning.

In the end, anyone with a true love of cheese is going to return to the traditional styles and while they may hop from one style to another, they will still experience the depth and flavor of these time-honored dairy products.

Brilliant!

Post of the Month so far. CSN, you get a gong!

:D :D :D

[SevenStar]

good point. Parmesan is definitely effective, however, it will not melt. That's the flaw the hard styles have. The soft styles will melt, but are often lumpy and uneven. Considering that, are they truly soft? MMA blends the two - A jack of all cheeses if you will. Of course, it's got it's drawbacks as it hasn't been perfected yet, but as more and more cooks convert to MMA, the cheese will advance.

While I'm thinking about it, we can't omit the shaolin-do of cheeses - Easy Cheese. yes, the cheese that's in a can. It claims to be cheese, but pales in comparison to external, internal and MMA cheeses.

[rogue]

CHEESE ROLL CALL (Episode P4)
Lyrics by Paul Rugg.

Sung to Semper Fidelis by John Philip Sousa.


Pinky: A world of cheeses
Deliciously made for you and me
Flavors like Provolone and Brie
Each with its own ethnicity.
So many cheeses
Are available all around the world for you to eat
Especially good with crackers and meat
A nice yummy treat.

Thousands of cheeses
The texture of some can be real gooey
Others are quite firm and chewy
Some are better when mildewy.
Bountiful cheeses
When you take a big whiff a few
Will make you want to spew
Especially strong is the cheese Remoudou
A real stinkeroo.

It's incredible just how many kinds there are
From countries near and far
It's really quite bizarre.
Now from the mouths of cheeses big and small
We proudly present to you
The cheese roll call.

*Wensleydale: I am the British cheese Wensleydale, lightly
* pressed and smooth textured with a subtle
* milky flavor which is clean and refreshing.
*
*Pinky: Welcome, Wensleydale!
*
*Cheddam: G'day! I am Australian Cheddam, an
* innocuous, golden yellow, rindless block
* inspired by Cheddar and Edam!
*
*Pinky: Welcome, Cheddam!

Edelpilzkäse: I am the German cheese Edelpilzkäse, a fine,
blue-veined cheese with a pale ivory paste
and very dark veins traveling vertically
through me.

Pinky: Welcome, Edelpil... Edel... oh, willkommen!

+Brie: I am the French cheese Brie, a soft,
+ unpressed, naturally drained cow's milk with
+ white rind flora, molded into large flat disks
+ and ripened for three to four weeks.

Pinky: Thank you, cheeses! I want to eat you all!

Pinky: Oh, how I like my cheeses
Cheese from around the world
Cheese is the taste that pleases
Cheese from around the world (sing with me, cheeses!)

+some: Oh, how I like my cheeses
Cheese from around the world (everybody!)
+all : Cheese is the taste that pleases
Cheese from around the world

Around this great big world
Around this big cheese world
Around this great big world
Around this big -- cheese -- world!

Pinky: Mmm... yummy! Narf!

[Chang Style Novice]

Thank you for the kind words, Serpent and Seven Star. And thank you for the musical interlude, Rogue. Now, I present to you:

(a customer walks in the door.)

Customer (John Cleese): Good Morning.
Owner (Michael Palin): Good morning, Sir. Welcome to the National Cheese Emporium!
Customer: Ah thank you my good man.
Owner: What can I do for you, Sir?
C: Well, I was, uh, sitting in the public library on Thurmon Street just now, skimming through 'Rogue Herrys' by Hugh Walpole, and I suddenly came over all peckish.
O: Peckish, sir?
C: Esuriant.
O: Eh?
C: 'Ee I were all 'ungry-like!
O: Ah, hungry!
C: In a nutshell. And I thought to myself, 'a little fermented curd will do the trick', so, I curtailed my Walpoling activites, sallied forth, and infiltrated your place of purveyance to negotiate the vending of some cheesy comestibles!
O: Come again?
C: I want to buy some cheese.
O: Oh, I thought you were complaining about the bouzouki player!
C: Oh, heaven forbid: I am one who delights in all manifestations of the Terpsichorean muse!
O: Sorry?
C: 'Ooo, Ah lahk a nice tune, 'yer forced to!
O: So he can go on playing, can he?
C: Most certainly! Now then, some cheese please, my good man.
O: (lustily) Certainly, sir. What would you like?
C: Well, eh, how about a little Red Leicester.
O: I'm, a-fraid we're fresh out of Red Leicester, sir.
C: Oh, never mind, how are you on Tilsit?
O: I'm afraid we never have that at the end of the week, sir, we get it fresh on Monday.
C: Tish tish. No matter. Well, stout yeoman, four ounces of Caerphilly, if you please.
O: Ah! It's beeeen on order, sir, for two weeks. Was expecting it this morning.
C: 'T's Not my lucky day, is it? Aah, Bel Paese?
O: Sorry, sir.
C: Red Windsor?
O: Normally, sir, yes. Today the van broke down.
C: Ah. Stilton?
O: Sorry.
C: Gruyere? Emmental?
O: No.
C: Any Norwegian Jarlsberger, per chance?
O: No.
C: Liptauer?
O: No.
C: Lancashire?
O: No.
C: White Stilton?
O: No.
C: Danish Blue?
O: No.
C: Double Gloucester?
O: (pause) No.
C: Cheshire?
O: No.
C: Dorset Blue Vinney?
O: No.
C: Brie, Roquefort, Pont-l'Eveque, Port Salut, Savoyard, Saint-Paulin, Carre-de-L'Est, Boursin, Bresse Bleu, Perle de Champagne?
O: No.
C: Camembert, perhaps?
O: Ah! We have Camembert, yessir.
C: (suprised) You do! Excellent.
O: Yessir. It's ah... it's a bit runny.
C: Oh, I like it runny.
O: Well,.. It's very runny, actually, sir.
C: No matter. Fetch hither the fromage de la Belle France! Mmmwah!
O: I...think it's a bit runnier than you'll like it, sir.
C: I don't care how ****ing runny it is. Hand it over with all speed.
O: Oooooooooohhh........! (pause)
C: What now?
O: The cat's eaten it.
C: (pause) Has he?
O: She, sir.
(pause)
C: Gouda?
O: No.
C: Edam?
O: No.
C: Caithness?
O: No.
C: Smoked Austrian?
O: No.
C: Japanese Sage Darby?
O: No sir.
C: You... do have some cheese, don't you?
O: (brightly) Of course, sir. It's a cheese shop, sir. We've got-
C: No no... don't tell me. I'm keen to guess.
O: Fair enough.
C: Uuuuuh, Wensleydale.
O: Yes?
C: Ah, well, I'll have some of that!
O: Oh! I thought you were talking to me, sir. Mister Wensleydale, that's my name.
(pause)
C: Greek Feta?
O: Uh, not as such.
C: Uuh, Gorgonzola?
O: No
C: Parmesan?
O: No
C: Mozzarella?
O: No
C: Pippo Creme?
O: No
C: Danish Fimboe?
O: No
C: Czech sheep's milk?
O: No
C: Venezuelan Beaver Cheese?
O: Not -today-, sir, no.
(pause)
C: Aah, how about Cheddar?
O: Well, we don't get much call for it around here, sir.
C: Not much ca--It's the single most popular cheese in the world!
O: Not 'round here, sir.
C: (slight pause) and what IS the most popular cheese 'round hyah?
O: 'Illchester, sir.
C: IS it.
O: Oh, yes, it's staggeringly popular in this manusquire.
C: Is it.
O: It's our number one best seller, sir!
C: I see. Uuh... 'Illchester, eh?
O: Right, sir.
C: All right. Okay. 'Have you got any?' He asked, expecting the answer 'no'.
O: I'll have a look, sir.. nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnno.
C: It's not much of a cheese shop, is it?
O: Finest in the district sir!
C: (annoyed) Explain the logic underlying that conclusion, please.
O: Well, it's so clean, sir!
C: It's certainly uncontaminated by cheese.
O: (brightly) You haven't asked me about Limburger, sir.
C: Would it be worth it?
O: Could be.
C: Have you --SHUT THAT BLOODY BOUZOUKI OFF!
O: Told you sir...
C: (slowly) Have you got any Limburger?
O: No.
C: Figures. Predictable, really I suppose. It was an act of purest optimism to have posed the question in the first place....... Tell me:
O: Yessir?
C: (deliberately) Have you in fact got any cheese here at all?
O: Yes,sir.
C: Really?
(pause)
O: No. Not really, sir.
C: You haven't.
O: Nosir. Not a scrap. I was deliberately wasting your time,sir.
C: Well I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to shoot you.
O: Right-0, sir.
(The customer takes out a gun and shoots the shopkeeper)
C: What a senseless waste of human life.

[fa_jing]

CSN - you're the life of this forum :D

[SevenStar]

We need a cheese forum here.

[Serpent]

What we need is cheesemart.com! I'm gagging for a cheesy repast after reading that!

:eek:

[Chang Style Novice]

Cheese is superior. The bacon sammich will be utterly destroyed.

[ewallace]

Don't make me drive up there and hurt you. Bacon melts cheese and renders it useless. There is a reason why many overweight folks smell like bad cheese. If they smelled like bacon they would have men and women jumping all over them like a rock star.

[Chang Style Novice]

Come with it, Porkbelly! My whirling curds of destruction are ready for any treyf-ass technique you wanna pull!:p

[SevenStar]

nah, melting is all part of the plan. consider the softness of taiji. you strike, he yields, you're thrown. bacon is hot, cheese softens to melt around it, and then the bacon is trapped in the cheese. Now, not only does the cheese have the bacon trapped, but the cheese begins to smell faintly of bacon, meaning chicks will dig it.

[fa_jing]

Just substitute Baco-Bits for real bacon and you'll have a nice, tasty bacon-flavored cheese product.

[ewallace]

No way dude. That getting thrown on your head stuff is really starting to show. Have you ever tried to swallow bacon before thoroughly chewing it? That feeling of swallowing a razor blade sets in. If bacon can cut throat tissue, it would be no match for no stinkin melted cheese. Unless you do that Iron Cheese-type training that can repell edged weaponed attacks against major dairy organs.

[SevenStar]

of course cheeses do that type of training. Have you ever heard of hard cheese gung?

[ewallace]

this thread has gotten very cheesy.

[SevenStar]

do you smell linberger?

[Chang Style Novice]

Sorry. I'll wash my gym togs.

[guohuen]

Oh, it was you? I was getting ready to scold my dogs.

[rogue]

Is that fumunda cheese I smell?

[SevenStar]

eww.. How could a beautiful cheese hijack degrade into this?

[ewallace]

That's why bacon is superior. You can leave the **** on the counter for 5 days and it still smells great.

[Chang Style Novice]

Where there's cheese, crackers can't be far behind, Sevenstar.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by ewallace
That's why bacon is superior. You can leave the **** on the counter for 5 days and it still smells great.

yeah, but you'd probably die as soon as you consumed it... cheese is honest, there is a certain wu de about it. It let's you know "hey, I'm old so don't eat me" bacon just sits there and knows it's old, then just lets you eat it and get sick.