Revival&Healing techniques-essentials

[Former castleva]

I thought I´d form a small double post of healing and revival techniques.
At first,even though it is not very well known to general public,healing techniques are immovable part of KF and various other arts,it seems though,that discussion on it has been a few and far between.
TCM (acupressure/puncture,theory and application,qi-gong etc.) style specific healing methods,massage,bone setting,training injury healing,herb use,first aid etc.
It woud seem to be important and what makes a large art complete.
Question goes-do you practice some sort of "healing" or revival in your kwoon/dojo/dojang? If yes,how much,what kind of? And is it strongly related to experience/ranking?
Some non CMA arts that are known to lay emphasis on it include:certain kempo styles,certain hapkido styles,kuk sool won etc.

How about revival techniques? As from chokes,pressure point attacks (revival techniques from them are heavily used in art of kyusho-jitsu to name an example) and martial first aid etc.
Then I would like to add the same questions as above and if you wish to share some knowledge or opinions,I won´t close my eyes on it.

Thanks for your time.


:)

[Former castleva]

I think I´ll have to cancel some of those last words...
:confused:

[Radhnoti]

FC, I think this would make for an excellent discussion. I'm surprised no one has jumped on this one. My instructor has shown us about 3 or 4 accu-points on the body to help with various maladies that have popped up in class. One to help upset stomachs, another for headaches...etc. Some qi gong breathing, including one "tension" form. I've seen 2 or 3 recipes for "dit da jow".
We've also gone over three "revival" type techniques. Two for when...um...the testicles retract (from impact) and one for someone that lost consciousness.
Hope someone else decides to share a bit here, as I think this is a pretty interesting topic. :cool:

[dezhen2001]

hi FC :)

well, in my limited shorinji kempo training it covered 3 main areas: Goho - hard (striking) techniques, Juho - (compliant) standing grappling and immobilization techniques and Seiho - which were healing techniques...

All 3 use anatomically weak points in the body - vital points if u like. They are used to control a person or cause a lot of damage with minimum effort. On top of that the Seiho uses kinda like Shiatsu massage therapy to help if you have any mild injuries: such as a stiff back after doing bad ukemi or landing hard, muscle cramps... even more advanced to dealing with bruising and fractures, dislocation i think...? Not so sure...

Nowadays i study both Wing Chun and Qigong, which is good for me. The wing chun i do is also for health, as training correctly develops these aspects, but Qigong lets me deal with specific problems such as back ache, tiredness, depression etc. which all can really make u feel like sh|t! lol

Well... thats about it,
hope some other guys can post on this thread :p

later mate!

david

[Former castleva]

Thanks!

"FC, I think this would make for an excellent discussion. I'm surprised no one has jumped on this one. My instructor has shown us about 3 or 4 accu-points on the body to help with various maladies that have popped up in class. One to help upset stomachs, another for headaches...etc. Some qi gong breathing, including one "tension" form. I've seen 2 or 3 recipes for "dit da jow".
We've also gone over three "revival" type techniques. Two for when...um...the testicles retract (from impact) and one for someone that lost consciousness.
Hope someone else decides to share a bit here, as I think this is a pretty interesting topic. "

I know couple of headache points,no stomach points yet (just the temple classic :cool: )
"We've also gone over three "revival" type techniques. Two for when...um...the testicles retract (from impact) and one for someone that lost consciousness. "
It seems that choke revivals get a lot of attention from judo and jujitsu at least,is that unciousness technique for that or something else? (don´t want to be pushy,just in case if you wanna share)
I know this one groin shot revival technique in which you basically stand back-to back with the person being helped,hook his arms and then lift him off the floor on your back a couple of times,sound familiar? Thanks a lot for the reply.


hi FC

"well, in my limited shorinji kempo training it covered 3 main areas: Goho - hard (striking) techniques, Juho - (compliant) standing grappling and immobilization techniques and Seiho - which were healing techniques...

All 3 use anatomically weak points in the body - vital points if u like. They are used to control a person or cause a lot of damage with minimum effort. On top of that the Seiho uses kinda like Shiatsu massage therapy to help if you have any mild injuries: such as a stiff back after doing bad ukemi or landing hard, muscle cramps... even more advanced to dealing with bruising and fractures, dislocation i think...? Not so sure...

Nowadays i study both Wing Chun and Qigong, which is good for me. The wing chun i do is also for health, as training correctly develops these aspects, but Qigong lets me deal with specific problems such as back ache, tiredness, depression etc. which all can really make u feel like sh|t! lol "

They use 138 points in shorinji,don´t they? (Wow,I wonder how they come up with such a specific expression)
I´ve got the idea that it´s pretty much like acupressure (but oh well,acupressure and shiatsu are sometimes referred as the same thing even though they are not,but I believe they use same points,at least...to a point ;) )

Qi-gong...good stuff,I shall start doing some again in no-time.

BTW,if you´ve been dealing with depression too,which I hope you don´t.You might want to check out this non-off-topic site that I found a while ago (I won´t tell too much to keep you tense ;) but there is some good acupressure stuff,and some points are also known as striking points)

http://holisticonline.com/Remedies/Depression/dep_acupressure.htm

Thanks,buddy

[dezhen2001]

thanks for the link man... am just coming out of a dark hole actually thanks to a good friend (after 4 months) :)

Will have a look now...

U should start training Qigong - it really makes such a difference. I know coz i haven't trained much for around 4 months (dark hole) and really feel like crap. All clouded up and like a sloth really compared to the clarity and directness i had before... hopefully i can get it back soon! The Qigong i do uses movements relating to specific acupuncture points anyway, so no need for the massage (though sometiems we touch certain places or move our hands over them etc.) They follow a similar TCM principle though...

In Shorinji Kempo they have a book which is like a manual explaining the principles of the skill and things u need to know for gradings etc. In it it shows diagrams of the 138 vital points they use. Pretty interesting actually. Also a good skill to have for back massage ;) lol

david

[Former castleva]

Thanks for the rather quick reply,feels like a chat.
When it comes to qi-gong,Í´ve had to do self-study,and only self-studies (white crane and medical,with some martially related breathing exercises) but I just have to be careful and it will work-out when it´s time.What type of it do you do?
My training (whatever may it be at the time) is pretty seasonal (could possibly be what you mean by "dark hole") you know you just crumble around for a while or more...then at times you´ll be able to rise on your feet and do something until the next episode,that´s how it goes with me,you have similar feelings?
Maybe one day we will be able to lock that dark hole up for good when passing by :) .

"In Shorinji Kempo they have a book which is like a manual explaining the principles of the skill and things u need to know for gradings etc. In it it shows diagrams of the 138 vital points they use. Pretty interesting actually. Also a good skill to have for back massage lol "

I see.Like a secret scroll of the old hard times.

See you.



:)

[dezhen2001]

hi FC: can u chat? i can meet u in the http://www.fighterschat.com chatroom if u can? :)

As for the SK book - it's more like a handbook given to everyone who joins the worldwide associsation lol nothing secret about it (but u need to know and understand the terminology and names)

I train in Wild Goose Qigong (Dayan Qigong) and also Ying (Hard) Qigong. Both are very different, but share some siliarities... i also do quite a bit of meditation as it's important for hard qigong... this is when i'm training of course lol

I don't think my depression is seasonal - just had a lot of stuff piled on top of me these last few months and my horse stance isn't strong enough to take it :( That's why i need to train it more ;)

c ya :)
david

[Former castleva]

David,
sorry it seems I found out a bit too late.
I would love to chat though
I guess we´ll have to do that later then.

"As for the SK book - it's more like a handbook given to everyone who joins the worldwide associsation lol nothing secret about it (but u need to know and understand the terminology and names) "

Oh,well I´ve found a decent amount of information and chart(s) on shorinji kempo points and their locations.What I have not found out yet,is what those points too,sites don´t explain that.

I suppose wild goose qi-gong is more soft-oriented?
It´s good to do both soft and hard for maximum results and being safe,not to say you would not know that of course.:)

"I don't think my depression is seasonal - just had a lot of stuff piled on top of me these last few months and my horse stance isn't strong enough to take it That's why i need to train it more"

I see.It is not? The problem might be because horse stance packs most of the weight on your legs,maybe you should lead that load of stuff/worries in your dan tien,that should smoothen your emotions and clear the mind ;)
Have you tried TKD stance? :rolleyes: ;)

Seriously,I´ll be looking forward for your input in future&I hope everything will be allright,or at least less badly ;) :)

Ganbatte

[dezhen2001]

no problems mate - sorry i missed ya! But that link is what most of us use to chat as genes chatroom on KFM only works with netscape...

I should be there later tonight, maybe from midnight UK time (you are -5 or -8 hourd depending if east or west coast US :p) also there now lol

As for the SK Book - well, it's open, but u can't just show anyone how to use vital points can ya ;) The points are pretty well known and reasonably obvious, but maniplulated very subtley (fromt he little i knew).

As for horse stance - actually it helps me a lot! Was just trying to be metaphoric lol My brain/spirit is the thing that's not strong enough and crumbled not my stance ;)

Wild Goose Qigong is soft, and has many different skills (including some MA forms and even weapons). It's a complete skill from Kunlun mountains in china. It uses moving, 'fluttering', shaking, turning, stretching etc. all to stimulate the body and acupuncture points. Really it's one of the most beautiful forms of Qigong i have ever seen, and is very enjoyable.

Hard Qigong on the other hand is just a beast! lol i LOVE training it as it makes me feel so clear and have so much energy (not to mention the body aspect). Once things are sorted out here i'm gonna be trianing again back at Uni. Just need to find a wall or big tree trunk though (to hit myself off and stand up against in handstand) as i don't think i can use my Uni accomodation walls ;)

I'm lucky to train both coz i get to see more of the whole skill, whereas some people only focus on one or the other :)

Hopefully we can chat sometime mate!
later,

david

[dezhen2001]

oh - ur from Finland LOL
Depends how late u usually stay up then ;)

ttyl mate :)
david

[Former castleva]

Hi once again,comrade.
I think you have hijacked my post,huh :D that´s allright.

"oh - ur from Finland LOL
Depends how late u usually stay up then "
YES! I was about and should have written about that in my last post but I forgot about that.And yes,our understanding of time differs slightly.:)

"As for the SK Book - well, it's open, but u can't just show anyone how to use vital points can ya The points are pretty well known and reasonably obvious, but maniplulated very subtley (fromt he little i knew). " You must be right.It seems the situation is pushing me to the conclusion I have to get Dillmans books then ;) maybe not,I have the few basics down in a way.

"As for horse stance - actually it helps me a lot! Was just trying to be metaphoric lol My brain/spirit is the thing that's not strong enough and crumbled not my stance"
I undestand completely,my reply was not the most heavy either even though it had some chinese pressure on it.
But I think Morihei Ueshiba states that proper stance reflects a proper state of mind,so you´re on your way there.:)

"Wild Goose Qigong is soft, and has many different skills (including some MA forms and even weapons). It's a complete skill from Kunlun mountains in china. It uses moving, 'fluttering', shaking, turning, stretching etc. all to stimulate the body and acupuncture points. Really it's one of the most beautiful forms of Qigong i have ever seen, and is very enjoyable.

Hard Qigong on the other hand is just a beast! lol i LOVE training it as it makes me feel so clear and have so much energy (not to mention the body aspect). Once things are sorted out here i'm gonna be trianing again back at Uni. Just need to find a wall or big tree trunk though (to hit myself off and stand up against in handstand) as i don't think i can use my Uni accomodation walls "

So Wild Goose is actually part martial,i suppose.
White Crane is quite cool closely bird related martial form too and has both soft and hard to it,still and moving.
Includes flapping and flying movements,with hard muscular tension.
It is nice being located here I´ve had actual cranes coming up nearly at my backyard on the field,walking/stalking around and at times coming up close (they are about to leave right now at this time of year though)

Thank you for your time,and later on!


:)

[dezhen2001]

hey mate - i'm in the chatroom now! lol I think ur 1 or 2 hours ahead of me right? :)

Dayan Qigong has some martial arts skill, but it's higher up than me... have seen the forms but they're more trained for Qigong than MA. Even the sword forms (Jian - straight sword) are soft, relaxed, fluid and agile. Very beautiful.

I've had some geese swarm around me while training in the park also - pretty kewl...

As for PP techniques, i have no idea, i wouldn't worry till i find a good Sifu :)

c ya in there i hope or later,
david

ps: thought i may as well hijack it saying as only 1 other person posted lol

[Former castleva]

Hi.Thanks for the reply again.:)

You know I´m currently a bit out of talk,so my weapon of choise is "I´ll be contacting you later in some manner,see ya-best regards".
BTW,I think I missed the chat,but it´s working.

:)

Later,Keep training.

[dezhen2001]

no problems mate, we'll catch up with each other sooner or later lol

hope u feel better :)

ttyl,
david

[Tae Li]

see thats whay bugs me about taekwondo.......

its alllllll training, we NEVER cover any form of healing, guess cos its not Chinese? but still surely Koreans have some idea?

:S

Tae Li;)

[dezhen2001]

tae li: hopefully chat to sometime eh ;)

david

[Former castleva]

Tae Li,
I could have suspected that,almost.
It is not the part of many art it seems,I think kung-fu has a pretty good hold on this part.
But I don´t believe that korean arts are necessarily lacking in this,those hapkido and kuk sool won that I mentioned as an example,cover that.

Let´s see,well now that I did some search I found out that healing techniques are teached at advanced levels at least in one or more styles.
http://www.choongmoo.org/

But this is probably only one example.

:)

Could it be that chinese and japanese do have their own healing methods and have been having them for long (just think about TCM) I don´t know of specific korean healing methods (but it is used in arts as we see)

[dezhen2001]

not chungmoodoe? :D don't even wanna go there :D

I think that certain MA have the 'health' element, wheras aothers are more just the fighting skill...

TKD for example is more like a sport now, so they train for that, but i'm sure theres some traditional Korean skills somewhere :)

Hey Tae: maybe u should take up the tai chi again? or i could show ya some qigong :)

c ya,
david

ps: FC: feel like chatting today? i'm going to http://www.fighterschat.com/chat.php now anyway lol

[Tae Li]

thanx boys:)

il look into it, and maybe i should get back into tae chi dwd.

Tae Li;)

[Former castleva]

Tae Li,and others

This is not directly qi-gong related but you might want to try military TKD.They train very hard,and not in sport manner,as far as I´ve heard.

Hey Dehz.
I tried the chat out but I guess my timing got me again...:)
I´ve started some training again,plenty of qi-gong and cool stuff ;) Let´s see how long I last.
Later pal.

[dezhen2001]

FC no worries mate :) talk to ya 1 of these times lol
If u see me up top n KFO i'm usually in the fighterschat room as well... that goes for anyone else who wants to drop by ;) I hope the qigong can make u feel better and clearer :)

As for tae li: i'm sure she can prob kick my ass well enough already! don't tell her anything else that can give her MORE of an edge! :eek: LOL :D Now i REALLY need to train my Hard Qigong!

david

[Tae Li]

Dawoooooddddddddd......ttttttttt.

[dezhen2001]

jeez... i missed both u guys huh? :(
FC: what types of Qigong do u do if u don't mind me asking? I'd be interested to find out...
Tae Li: check your emails please miss :)

bedtime (midnight),
ttyl

david

[dezhen2001]

heres a link for the UK Shoriji Kempo website if ur interested FC (and others)... i trained with this association for 5 years - very good :) It's also CMA related for a change :D

http://www.bskf.org/

david

[Former castleva]

Hello.
Thanks a herd for the replies David,you have been busy :)
And Tae Li,I did not get much out of it though...but thanks anyway.:)
Oh yes,now I remember what the kaiso created shorinji for,to help those who survived the war and light some fire into their hearts :) That´s how I first understood it.BTW,this art is also taught here too.

"FC: what types of Qigong do u do if u don't mind me asking? I'd be interested to find out... "

I briefly mentioned this earlier,but that was briefly.
I self-study "the eight pieces of brocade" qi-gong,which includes both standing and sitting sets (it´s quite hard to put this into a category,it is quite like "basic" medical or ?scholar? qi-gong.But even with that it has various pieces which include horse-stance and even striking like patterns,it is said to have developed from animal movements but I can´t prove that)
Quite straightforward and down-to-earth,gentle internal gong.

Then there´s White Crane qi-gong which is a part of CMA of shaolin white crane system (WT is actually a big system including various styles) Understanding that it is a martial art requires the gong to be martial all the way.
There are soft and hard sets,still and mostly moving.
Techniques are based on crane movements in a way or another,plenty of flying,flapping and bending.
Soft is more internal and uses nearly no muscle,while hard requires strong external tension to build up muscle and tendon,not to mention sort of qi li and external qi.
Crane gong is harder for it takes at least some breath coordination,abdominal breathing,somewhat more fluid and accurate movements,but is fun.

"If u see me up top n KFO i'm usually in the fighterschat room as well... "
I´ll take that into serious consideration.
;)

I´ll try to start hard conditioning today.
heavy bag and phoenix eye post work,some traditional strength training and stuff.
:)

Best regards,