The Bat Fat of Bak Mei

[Shaolin Master]

Apparently in Hong Kong, there is the development of the Bat Fat which are the most affective and deadly techniques of Bak Mei (aren't they all hehehe) composed. Equivocal to the 10 Killing hands of Wong Fei Hong in its conceptualisation.

Therefore out of curiosity has anyone been exposed to this most recent and interesting set of techniques.

Regards

[fiercest tiger]

batt fut, has been in it all along, sifu troung and myself spoke about this and changed idea's years ago!

answer is yes! its in the bak mei manual, read closely! ;)

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[Shaolin Master]

I wanted the forum to discuss it. ;)

Ah also on a lighter note...congrats over 1000 posts hehehe..busy busy

all the best for the lunar festival if I don't see you til then.

[fiercest tiger]

thanks mate same to you!

i didnt even know i clocked up so many post! man i can talk some sh!t here. speaking of turds sui few and clown one should be here any minute. lol0.

take care :D

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[CannonFist]

I have heard of the "luk ging bart faat" (six powers and 8 methods) of Bak Mei but I am not sure whether this bart faat is the same bart faat that is analogous to the sup juet sao (ten killing hands) of Wong Fei Hung.

The luk ging is ging that is manifested and amplified by the jaw, neck, back, waist, hands, leg.

The bart faat includes chau (lift), sok (suck), pin (side or whipping??), tarn (bounce), larm (hugging), chong (banging), chung (charging in or barging) and one more I could not remember. These bart faat are some of the important movemnts of bak mei in the broader sense but it can also translate directly into the actual tecnique names. For instance there is chung choi, larm da, sok sau.

[Kevin Barkman]

Hello Cannon Fist,

You mentioned "Larm" as meaning "hugging" - is this the same meaning to "Lam Dah"? Are you saying the Lam Dah movement means "hugging hit"?

Cheers - kevin

[mantis108]

The missing one is Poon (circle/enveloping)

Larm Dah would be "Braced Strike" in Lung Ying. That's more a frontal attack-sort of a ramming tech. It is Bui Tsui in Bak Mei. It's more a side way and body hit.

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[fiercest tiger]

thanks for sharing the batt fatt techniques

dohjay sai :D

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[CannonFist]

I checked the dictionary and it says that "larm" means to grasp. I said "larm" means to hug because I don't have the proper literary skills in Chinese and am limited to only spoken colloquial Cantonese and I have always associated larm to mean hug. The intent of larm da does not dictate the motion of hugging or grasping but its visual form does resemble the act of hugging doesnt it?

Mantis 108 : Ah yes, poon is the one I forgot. Thanks :)

[mantis108]

F.T.,

Thanks for the kind words. :D

CannonFist,

Glad to be of help. You have quite a few nice posts lately. Thanks for sharing. :)

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[mantis108]

Larm in Cantonese is to hug but it also have the meanig of to brace or embrace. So you are not far off in the translation in the literary sense.

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[Kevin Barkman]

I still don't understand why they named Lam Dah as a "hugging" or "embracing"?

I've never seen Lam Dah used in this way. Mantis 108, does this "Bracing" mean you brace yourself before you hit the guy?

I thought Lam Dah was a striking movement, not a grasping movement. The rest of the movements seem much more aptly named - Boi-Gim Draw the Sword you can see, Kow Pek you can see. Although...I guess Sam Tong doesn't make much sense to me either, in a visual way.

I don't recall exactly how Lam Dah was explained to me, although it was always with great frusteration and difficulty. The thing that was emphasized was to take in, then hit out. Or, forward strike.

Any thoughts?

Cheers - kevin

[MoQ]

Kevin, Mantis108 says like a bou chui "shoulder punch"... "bracing" is good descriptive, or you ever had to break down the bathroom door? haha

hey it just occurs to me this is basically what Man Kwong Fong is doing on the cover of this video...

http://www.espytv.com/whiteeyebrow.htm

[This message was edited by MoQ on 09-25-01 at 11:44 PM.]

[mantis108]

Hi Kevin,

The Hug/embrace is the space, some refer this as the embracing the Chi (a bit too much on the mysticism), that is created by the hands and the body as in you are huging someone. It satisfies the 2 out of 3 rounds, which is advocated by Sifu Cheung Kwok Tai - the round of the Torso and the round of the shoulders. The third round, the round of the palm (tiger mouth), which you would see in the link MoQ has provided, is not in some lineages while executing this move. That is a straight palm is done as standard. It some way, this move is a paradox. You'll have to keep hugging (to keep the posture) and to strike out at the same time. Not 1-2/in-out, but on one. Some lineages prefer to straighten up at the impact point to add the extra umph of the body bow. I don't generally advocated that because the flexing might cause a slight lax and imbalance which might result in poor recovery; therefore, lost the oppotunity to capitalize the follow up moves. Besides, there is a huge different in physical attributes between a large person and a small person such as myself. That's why I call it braced as in I braced myself (I picture myself as a ram) to ram into the target. Try 3 larm dah in a row and you will see what I mean. Also, if you have a heavy bag (the Thai bananas bag is the best)try on it and see. If the hug is poorly done, you will fail on the first larm dah and will not be able to continue with the rest or change to other hands. Also a good drill is to do the seven hands with the heavy bag. All hands start with the jong and enter with larm dah.

Some combos are:

jong-Larm dah-larm dah-larm dah
jong-larm dah-bui gim-kow pek
jong-larm dah-chong Tsui-Kow pek
jong-larm dah-Soy kiu-boi gim
jong-larm dah-soy kiu-chong tsui

anyway you got the idea

As for Sarm Tong, it is easier if explain in person. It not a very hard concept but it helps alot to have someone to train with. I tend to see sarm tong as a connecting hand rather than a finishing move. I don't know if that would help or not?

Hi MoQ,

Great to see you back again. :) How goes it? Thanks for the link. A picture is more than words sometimes.

Mantis108

P.S. breath into the hug (especially Dan Tien strengthen). That helps to stablize the posture.

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[Kevin Barkman]

Hi Mantis 108 - thanks for the excellent post and clarification! I was shown three applications for Lam Dah;

1. Use forarm to sink downward into kidneys / hip - causes leg to collapse
2. Use as "repulsing movement" (straighten and throw upwards / twist back foot) - hit to side or front
3. Use as blocking movement (block kick - move in low)

Lam Dah is a very excellent movement.

Could you extrapolate a bit on the 2 / 3 "rounding criteria"? I understand the back and shoulders, is the third the positioning of the arms? Is CKT saying that an effective movement in LY requires these three postures?

Many Thanks! kevin