How was the Ken Chung Seminar in Rochester NY last week?

[scuba steve]

I heard there was a seminar with Ken Chung in New York state last weekend. Did anyone from the forum attend?

How did it go?

Anyone from outside his organization attend as well? Any comments on his approach vis a vis the way you currently train?

Thanks.

[kj]

Originally posted by scuba steve
I heard there was a seminar with Ken Chung in New York state last weekend. Did anyone from the forum attend?

I did.


How did it go?

Great. :)


Anyone from outside his organization attend as well? Any comments on his approach vis a vis the way you currently train?

We held a special session on Saturday afternoon this time in order to accommodate additional folks. Only four joined us; three from other Wing Chun groups, and one who hasn't started Wing Chun yet. AFAIK, none of them play in this sandbox.


Thanks.

Welcome.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Atleastimnotyou]

i went too. it was great, everytime i go it renews my enthusiasm for wing chun even more. We had a guy from Benny Meng's lineage attend and a guy from Sunny Tang's lineage. I don't know where the third guy was from though. (im sure kathy jo will correct me if i messed something up).
I love how ken will talk about WC none stop. He says he's taking five and when he is sippin water he will think of something else and keep talking. He keeps talking all through lunch and dinner.:D
Ken even demonstrated on Andy and George who were from Benny Meng and Sunny Tang, respectively. They had a hard time understanding how ken was able to do some of the things he did. But i could see that Andy had a smile on his face for the most part.
Every seminar just gets better and better. I cant wait for the one in Cleveland in March.

Corey

[Rolling_Hand]

--Ken even demonstrated on Andy and George who were from Benny Meng and Sunny Tang, respectively. They had a hard time understanding how ken was able to do some of the things he did.--Atl

**Could it be that Ken had a hard time explaining himself in front of the Moy Yat wing chun family?

--But i could see that Andy had a smile on his face for the most part.--Atl

**So, Andy was a gentleman!

[kj]

Originally posted by Rolling_Hand
**Could it be that Ken had a hard time explaining himself in front of the Moy Yat wing chun family?


Not sure if the underhanded slight was intended toward Ken, the Moy Yat family, or both. In any case it has never seemed so.

Some individuals, however, are confounded by how so much force can be applied without use of great muscular effort, telegraphing, instability, and often with very little visible movement.

The mechanism is intentional, rather than intuitive or instinctive. If it were intuitive or instinctive, more people would practice correspondingly.

It is not unusual for newcomers to hold the notion that great physical strength must be exerted in order to yield great force or power. On occasion, I've seen individuals become so otherwise engaged in trying to prove to themselves that Ken is relying largely on obscure use of the large muscle groups, that they distract themselves from what he's actually demonstrating and explaining. Those able and willing to entertain new or different concepts seem to catch on with greatest ease. "Listening" skills are an asset in all types of learning.



--But i could see that Andy had a smile on his face for the most part.--Atl

**So, Andy was a gentleman!

Yes, he was and is.

The third practitioner who joined us is a student of Fung Hon.

All our visitors seemed to enjoy themselves. We enjoyed their company also. I only regret that so many who had originally planned to join us could not make it.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[reneritchie]

I warrent the experience of meeting a highly skilled practitioner, if you've never had the chance before, can be disruptive to say the least. Some will respond with a thirst to see/feel more, others will become defensive and retreat into a shell. Since, in the end, IMHO we should worry most about our own cultivation and not systematic dogma, the former is always better for us than the latter. Even if different, you build your own database for future reference.

Though I only spent a short time with Chung sifu, fwiw, he was *very* clear in explaining and showing everything he did (one of the very few I've had the pleasure to meet whose words actually matched his actions). It didn't seem to rely at all on physical strength but rather precise mechanics (alignment, angulation, sensitivity, etc.) and the manipulation of balance and momentum.

Nice that Meng sifu's, Fung sifu's, and other students could attend. As others have said, its always better to get first hand experience rather than the BS nonsense usually spread around or actively taught.

RR

[Rolling_Hand]

Kathy Jo,

You're such a wonderful person!

Roger

[reneritchie]

LOL! Dude, don't let the lack of a timeline fool you, I been up for a while now (and a few silent types were already milling around long before ;)

RR

[reneritchie]

BTW - I read that Jose Mario Esphia (sp?), a bjj blackbelt and Abu Dhabi competitor will be moving to Rochester in the near future. I smell Gong Sao.... 8P

(friendly, of course. very friendly 8) )

[akalish]

Sorry for the late posting to this thread, but I have only just recently joined the Forum. My name is Andy Kalish and I am a student of Sifu Benny Meng. My lineage is that of Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun through the Ving Tsun Museum (VTM) with a background in Yip Man lineage Wing Chun.

I did indeed attend Chung Sifu’s Workshop. I have known Rochesterians Kathy Jo Connors and Mark Stoddard for a little while now and have always admired their willingness to share and discuss kung fu across lineages in an open, friendly, and respectful manner. I have tried to do the same. This type of “Friendship Exchange” format is very consistent with the VTM approach to broadening one’s knowledge of Wing Chun through direct exposure and experience.

The workshop was good from a technical perspective. Ken informally discussed and demonstrated several aspects of Leung Sheung lineage Yip Man Wing Chun. Topics of discussion included several themes common to Yip Man Wing Chun, including relaxed delivery of energy, mental and physical intent (yi), elbow energy, and proper body structure & sinking for unity/rooting.

For the sake of clarification, I would also like to comment on some of the other postings:


Originally posted by Rolling_Hand

**Could it be that Ken had a hard time explaining himself in front of the Moy Yat wing chun family?

--But i could see that Andy had a smile on his face for the most part.--Atl

**So, Andy was a gentleman!

I will start with one that I think is important. I strongly echo Kathy Jo’s and Rene’s subsequent comments. As far as I could tell, Ken had absolutely no problem communicating his ideas to anyone. My experience in the VTM and in the Moy Yat family has been a very rich one and allowed me to understand exactly what Ken was trying to express. The only exceptions here were the brief times when he spoke in Cantonese. : ) As an aside, if I was a gentleman, it should be equally noted that I was in the company of gentlemen and gentlewomen. Thank you & Kathy Jo for the compliment.


Originally posted by Atleastimnotyou
Ken even demonstrated on Andy and George who were from Benny Meng and Sunny Tang, respectively. They had a hard time understanding how ken was able to do some of the things he did. But i could see that Andy had a smile on his face for the most part.

Corey

This one was in part a little confusing to me. I am not sure what it was that you thought I couldn’t understand. Not to be presumptuous, but perhaps you intended this statement as more of a general compliment to your Sigung as opposed to something based on an actual statement from me or a specific situation. Please feel free to enlighten or correct me, but I don’t believe that I made any such statement. In actuality, although some of his body structure and mechanics were slightly different, what Ken was demonstrating was very consistent with what I have had the opportunity to experience from Yip Man Wing Chun. Please understand that none of what I just said is intended to downplay Ken’s knowledge/skill or to be egotistical on my part (most people who know me can hopefully attest to this). The fact that I could understand everything that Ken was expressing is a tribute to my teacher, the Moy Yat lineage, and also to Ken himself. As for my smile, who wouldn’t be smiling when discussing Wing Chun?

Overall, I was glad I took the time to attend the workshop. Ken and his students were very open and sharing. Consistent with the VTM’s philosophy of friendship exchange both within and across lineages, this was a very good opportunity to be exposed to another branch of Yip Man system Wing Chun.

[kj]

Andy - what a great surprise to see your post here!

I too am very happy in all respects that you could join us when Ken was here. Ken also enjoyed meeting and sharing with you.

You, your group and Benny were very kind to include us in some of your events in the past, and I'm glad we finally had the opportunity to reciprocate.

I also like to think that you, I and our respective groups set a good example of inter-lineage relations, no less genuine friendships.

Hope to see you and your guys again soon. Please give them all my best regards, and tell them that next time we'll rough it up a bit, LOL. :D

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Grendel]

Originally posted by kj
Andy - what a great surprise to see your post here!

I too am very happy in all respects that you could join us when Ken was here. Ken also enjoyed meeting and sharing with you.

Hi KJ,

Seminar experiences are often very valuable and individualized. I'm happy to learn one or two new things at each and enjoy meeting new people and swapping stories.

Did you learn some new stuff you could share or hear any anecdotes from the "old days" from Ken or others?

I know you're always busy, so I understand if you can't reply in post.

Regards,

[kj]

Originally posted by Grendel
I know you're always busy, so I understand if you can't reply in post.

Even more so than usual at the moment, due to some pressing and deadline driven activities related to the hall of fame project, and preliminary work for next year's Wing Chun Camp.

Here are the topics which were covered in the general Saturday afternoon workshop session:


Nature and reasoning for the fundamentals of our Wing Chun approach
Demonstrate the basics of posture and movement based on the 5 basic stance guidelines
Explain and demonstrate our unwavering emphasis on position and sensitivity, and why for us "Nothing, absolutely nothing, is forced."
Offer a demonstration of Ken's renowned "heavy hands" and his "relaxed but substantial" power
Any other topics driven by participants' questions and whatever is of greatest interest. Ken is extremely open and never holds back information or any level of detail.


Other topics throughout the remainder of the weekend included:


Lots of explanation on chum kiu details for practice and applications (since most attendees are actively working in chum kiu at the moment).
Analysis of foot weighting.
Tons of concepts and details for solo practice, partner practice, and application.
The meaning and importance of "gung faht leun cheun" (need both the gung fu/hard work as well as the methods/maneuvering to be complete). While most of the regular practitioners have begun to develop some "gung," the need to increase the "faht" is becoming more evident.
Too many other small but important things to cover here, many individual corrections for the practitioners, and answers to many many, many questions.


As you probably know, our routine workshops are not "seminars" in the traditional sense, but rather serve in lieu of weekly training classes. To prepare us for the months of work ahead without Ken's presence, they are of necessity very concentrated and personalized. Not an easy thing to summarize succinctly, or for a broad-spectrum audience such as this one.

Still, I will try to find some time to put a few thoughts or observations together that may be of more general interest. My apologies that it will likely have to wait till later this week or next though.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Grendel]

Hi KJ,

Originally posted by kj
Even more so than usual at the moment, due to some pressing and deadline driven activities related to the hall of fame project, and preliminary work for next year's Wing Chun Camp.

You are one busy person, it seems. :)


Here are the topics which were covered in the general Saturday afternoon workshop session:
[list]
(much ellided text)
I appreciate your answers and will understand if you do not find time to post more. I also commend you for trying to be so open and clear about the lineage's methodology. Honesty and clarity is a refreshing change of pace on the forum. :)

I would also like to hear from others who attended who have added new skills to their repertoire and what those were.

Regards,

[Atleastimnotyou]

Originally posted by Grendel

I would also like to hear from others who attended who have added new skills to their repertoire and what those were.



i don't think anyone had "new skills" added to their repertoire per se'. As you probably know, ken doesn't teach "new techniques" for us to use at the seminars. It is more along the lines of correcting, refineing, and positioning us. Makeing sure we are still on the path. This is the way i always view the seminars: I have this picture of Wing Chun in my head. Every time i meet up with ken, he makes that picture a little more clear. I hope that makes sense.

[Grendel]

Hi Corey,

Originally posted by Atleastimnotyou

i don't think anyone had "new skills" added to their repertoire per se'. As you probably know, ken doesn't teach "new techniques" for us to use at the seminars.
I understood from KJ's comments that this was a "routine workshop." Actually, that's the first time I'm aware of that term, so I have no preconceptions of what it contains. I would assume at a seminar, revelations on the differences and subtleties of the art are explained around a theme, perhaps.


It is more along the lines of correcting, refineing, and positioning us. Makeing sure we are still on the path. This is the way i always view the seminars: I have this picture of Wing Chun in my head. Every time i meet up with ken, he makes that picture a little more clear. I hope that makes sense.
Sure, it does make sense. What I'm looking for is some of the insights that you drew from it. What were you doing incorrectly? How did Ken correct you? It's not necessarily something that was hugely important to the entire group, but maybe just to the individual.

Other people, including me, might benefit and gain insight from reading about whatever the attendees feel like sharing. :D

Not complaining, but sometimes it's like pulling teeth to get people to explain themselves here. :)

Regards,

[kj]

Originally posted by Grendel
I would assume at a seminar, revelations on the differences and subtleties of the art are explained around a theme, perhaps.


The general "theme" of our workshops are: for each student committed to practice, where are they in their current development, and what refinements are they currently most in need of? It's much like asking what the theme of someone's "routine classes" was over the past 4 months. The concise and comprehensive answer is probably "Wing Chun," LOL.

We're definitely not selling "seminars." If we were, I guarantee Carl and I would do a better job of advertising, LOL. We do our best to facilitate quality instruction and training for those inspired to join us in our endeavors. It's not about an event or an agenda, but rather an investment for the long term.

More later. <toothless grin>

Regards,
- Kathy Jo