Who finds the Bong Sau to be more of an offensive movement?

[Martial Joe]

...

[TjD]

bong sau can be yin or yang, use whats best for you at the moment

[Martial Joe]

True.

[S.Teebas]

I think its either as stated above. But it's rarely used in an offensive manner by people who lack proper undersanding in structure.

[Martial Joe]

Yeah hes right.

Most people seem to think it is a deffensive move.

I really like using it offensively.

[TjD]

if you can offensively do something with a bong sau, wouldn't it be better to just hit them? :)


i find that i use bong sau a whole lot more defensively than offensively. when i do use it offensively its just to uproot so i can lay down a whoopin'

defensively, i cant count how many times it's saved my ass :)

[Atleastimnotyou]

IMO bong sau is a transitional movement to get your opponent off your centerline while remaining on his. Then once you do that you can do something such as a chop or punch..etc.

[yuanfen]

bong sao- defense, offense, both, neither? Depends-...
no dogmas.

[cobra]

If... you have forward pressure, wouldn't everything be offensive?

[planetwc]

It is a transitional deflection. If one is looking for offense, then lan sau, bil sau, lop sau if you will.

But you don't want to have your Bong Sau hanging out there. You use it to relieve incoming linear force and immediately transition to another hand.

[S.Teebas]

If... you have forward pressure, wouldn't everything be offensive?

Forward thinking can make even stepping back aid your attack.

[yuanfen]

David- IMO-While you dont leave your bong sao hanging- there are times when the bong can be simultaneously a defense and an attack.

[red5angel]

Yep, seems to me with forward intent, and also the intent of breaking your opponents structure, everything you use is going to be offensive?

[jesper]

Every WC technic is offensive by nature :)

[UltimateFighter]

Originally posted by TjD
if you can offensively do something with a bong sau, wouldn't it be better to just hit them?




Thats the whole point. You do hit them. You hit them with bong sau!!!!!!

It is an excellent attacking move, like a forearm strike to the ribs or head when in close.

[Atleastimnotyou]

UF. you dont hit any body with a bong sau... your probably thinking of a lan sau.

[planetwc]

Hi Joy,

Well in the sense that you greet the incoming force I guess so. I think of it more about if there WAS no incoming force, would one attack with a Bong Sao or just strike them with one of our Wing Chun hand attacks?

Too often people end up keeping that bong sao "engaged" long beyond the point it is needed, and given it's unique approach to spiraling the incoming energy on "deployment", what does one have left with the structure AFTER it is used? Shouldn't it be morphing (if you will) into some other Wing Chun structure?

Otherwise it is sort of like driving with the air bag always deployed after something hits you. :D


Originally posted by yuanfen
David- IMO-While you dont leave your bong sao hanging- there are times when the bong can be simultaneously a defense and an attack.

[yuanfen]

Hi David

Hi Joy,

Well in the sense that you greet the incoming force I guess so.

((That is what i was referring to David. Done with proper timing it can be an attack and defense at the same time- even before changing the bong to something else))

I think of it more about if there WAS no incoming force, would one attack with a Bong Sao or just strike them with one of our Wing Chun hand attacks?

((It would be useless to use the bong- absent an incoming force. It is not a static technique,))

Too often people end up keeping that bong sao "engaged" long beyond the point it is needed, and given it's unique approach to spiraling the incoming energy on "deployment", what does one have left with the structure AFTER it is used? Shouldn't it be morphing (if you will) into some other Wing Chun structure?

((Correct. Holding the bong serves no serious purpose))

Otherwise it is sort of like driving with the air bag always deployed after something hits you.

((hey have you been watching phoenix traffic. While we cannot match california insanity- we try))

[HuangKaiVun]

yuan fen, I agree with you about CA!

By the way, I'd like to meet you in person one day. I saw your website and really admire what you are doing.


To add to this discussion, I've used bong sau to break chicken wing type joint locks and to slap attack guys in the groin from the forward position.

I've also used the bong sau as a side shoulder strike, sort of like a hockey check. That's the type of thing I'll use without an incoming force.

Here's a weird one that I've used repeatedly - HEAD BUTT. I've used the inward turning motion of the bong sau to attack a guy's face with my head or teeth. Though I've never actually connected with that technique, I would in the right circunstance.

[yuanfen]

Thanks. Hope that we do meet sometime.

On the attacking use of bong sao...under certain conditions- which can be shown...with both hands working you can lock and break someone's elbow witha bong. But I would never do that to a violin player<g>

[Martial Joe]

"if you can offensively do something with a bong sau, wouldn't it be better to just hit them? "


You have to work your way to hitting them sometimes.


If... you have forward pressure, wouldn't everything be offensive?

No I dont think.


Why are you guys calling my Joy?

[Daredevil]

I have a hard time seeing bong sau used as to hit someone. Doesn't seem very powerful. But I'm open minded and interested in getting whacked by a bong sau. :)

At a WT seminar way back when, I saw an interesting use for bong sau. In addition to to usual deflection, it was used to trap an opponent's arm against his torse, while the other hand rained strikes on the guy. It was really something that needs to be set up properly (we trained that there), but an interesting concept certainly.

[Ish]

if it was trapping there arms against their body and holding that position was it not a lan sau?

if not what makes you think it was a bong sau?

[Daredevil]

I'm not sure if I remember what a lan sau was (it's been a while since I did WT) ... anyway, it was taught as a bong sau and the arm position was the same. You used the arm, from elbow to wrist, to press on the other's arm, not your hand (though pressing something down out of the way with your hand -- with your structure behind it -- was a variation). And that trap came out of doing a typical bong sau deflection, then pressing it (with footwork).

[UltimateFighter]

Bong sau can be used as an attacking forearm, it is different from lan sau.

[HuangKaiVun]

I like your style, yuanfen.

Not that your elbow-breaking application of bong sau DOESN'T work, but a violin player is hard to pull that move off on!

The reason for that is that we work both our elbow joints when playing, developing a great amount of strength and flexibility. When violin players learn styles that rely on closed elbows, we're hard to get out of that position when we hit it. And we're also more likely than the average person to have the strength and agility to evade or resist such a strike!

It's not that YOUR bong sau couldn't do that, yuanfen, it's just that we violinists train our elbows for hours everyday.

[TjD]

yeah, well us WCers without girlfriends train our elbows for hours every day too!! i'd like to see it pulled off on me!



:D jk, i have a girlfriend :) really :)

[Martial Joe]

I train my elbows with or without one haha.