chan family clf-gung gee fuk fu set [Archive]

yik-wah-tik

09-23-2001, 11:26 PM

this past saturday i was hanging out with sifu chiu chi ling and i asked him if gung gee fuk fu was either hung ga or choy lee fut. he couldn't stop laughing because it is a hung ga set. he even went further and said that his father taught that set to either chan hong heung, chan kin man's father or to chan kin man. and that is how the choy lee fut chan clan had adopted this set into their system.

i also mentioned to him that the chan's also teach 18 lohan palms, and he said to me that that is a buk siu lum form, not a choy lee fut form. it has been passed down within the chan family, but it is still a northern shaolin form?

hmmm, i thought choy lee fut was mainly a southern system?

help, i'm lost.

i wonder why jeong yim aka jeong hung sing's students don't practice these forms?

anyone got the answer?

fran :confused :confused:

MasterPhil

09-24-2001, 12:08 AM

"this past saturday i was hanging out with sifu chiu chi ling" -- you say that so casually, I hate you!!! Lol.

"he couldn't stop laughing because it is a hung ga set" -- Of course! Like a first born son, goun gee fook fu is our pride and joy!!!

Seriously though, I think the confusion comes from the difference between a given style's set of forms vs a given school's set of forms. For example, my hg teacher taught me both goun gee fook fu AND shaolin #6. His sifu was a hunggar master and he taught hunggar to his students. But he also taught other forms (like northern shaolin and some various animal forms, maybe lau gar but I'm not sure). He always made sure though to tell students:"This is a hunggar form" and "This is not a hunggar form but another style". True masters seldom only learn one style but will most likely know a variety of forms from many styles on top of knowing all of their style's forms curriculum. The danger lies in not making the distinction clear when teaching these different sets and not teaching the history (if known) behind each form. Students will automatically assume that all forms they learn are from the same style and further spread confusion.

ST

Surrounded by chaos, the true taoist laughs...

yik-wah-tik

09-24-2001, 12:43 AM

silent thunder, sifu chiu chi ling loves me man! he has joined our group before for chinese new year, everytime he sees me he is always hugging on me. he is a very animated man, especially when it comes to his drumming. he is always laughing. he is hella cool! he told me much about the drama between the lam sai wing and lum jo factions of hung ga. he also claims that the picture of the real wong fei hong is the real thing.

anyways, you are right, true masters stick to only one style, but as my sifu has done, he learned gung gee fuk fu, and a few other hung ga sets. he also learned some fut ga as well, but my sifu admitted to me learning these sets only brought him back to hung sing choy lee fut with a stronger desire. he has praised the gung gee fuk fu as a number one set to learn.

in the past i have learned karate,judo,tai mantis, and some boxing, had much street fights, but when i learned hung sing choy lee fut, i have stayed with it for the last 20 + years. i knew this was the style for me when i saw it for the first time.

my sifu used to teach other choy lee fut sets like siu sup ji, siu mui fah, but had given them back since they are not of professor lau bun's branch.
he also taught me siu sup ji, and smal plum blossom, but i have also given those back.

i am still waiting for an answer on the 18 lohan palms. though. i am very interested in what they will have to say.

hopefully i will learn something.

st, i emaile you.

fran :D

yik-wah-tik

09-24-2001, 12:44 AM

if you wany sifu chiu chi ling's number just let me know, i can give it to you.

frank

T. Cunningham

09-24-2001, 08:11 AM

It is my understanding that the Gung Gee Fuk Fu and Iron Wire sets practiced by the Chan Family are indeed Hung Ga sets. It should be of no surprise being that Chan Heung studied Hung Ga and that Choy Lee Fut is an amalgam of all that he learned.

Regarding the 18 Lohan, it is the first of the 4 Lohan Qigung sets and is nothing like Northern Shaolin. It consists of large and small postures training the expansion and contraction of the energy. It builds a foundation for the three sets that follow just as Ng Lun Ma builds a foundation for sets at the primary level and Sei Moon Kiu, Jau Sang Ma builds a foundation for more advanced sets. Siu Lohan is the second set and builds on the concepts taught in 18 Lohan. Da Lohan follows with Wu Chi being the final set in the Lohan series.

Frank, its obvious that you are curious about and very interested in what the Chan Family practices. Why not set up a dialog with them and put an end to speculation? As long as its done in the spirit of friendship and advancing everyone's knowledge of CLF, I'm sure they'll be accommodating.

T. Cunningham

bean curd

09-24-2001, 09:00 AM

some buk sing also play gung gee, though i am not sure if all do.

there are many players of choi li fut that learnt hung kuen, tam sam learnt hung kuen before playing hung sing.

as tam sam and wong fei hung where two of the five tigers of the south, and both knew each other, it would not be beyond imagination that they would have discussed variations.

this is with many elders of the time, especially with the sup fu.

yik-wah-tik

09-24-2001, 04:10 PM

the gung gee fuk fu wasn't taught to chan heung. it was taught to chan kin man's father chan hong heung by sifu chiu chi ling's father.

sifu chiu chi ling has nothing to gain by making this comment. he and his parents are very famous hung ga masters.

in my opinion, it is fine to include whatever you want into your direct family of martial arts, but i personally feel that if another family does not have this set in their corriculum, then the chan family should not make any comments to what another family of choy lee fut teaches. the true essence of choy lee fut is in the basics such as kwa,sou,chop,biu,jong,kum,na,etc. etc. it is not the set that matters. if i only learned one set-lets say sup ji kou da, and i practiced that set for the next 20 years, then i should be unstoppable.

in this instance, i personally have another gripe about the chan family. very recently, a chan family sifu had the nerve to tell one of my classmates that he can correct his gung fu. this sifu will remain nameless for now, but he has to have some big ass nuts to ever think because he is a chan family member that he can correct the gung fu of hung sing choy lee fut practitioners. i mean if you do not have our sets, then how the hell can you correct someone?

i guess the fued will never end. not once has a hung sing person ever tried to make such comments like the cocky sifu did. yes i am heated!!!!!!

fran :mad:

yik-wah-tik

09-24-2001, 04:27 PM

it is understandable that many past masters most likely learned hung ga. they are a very old style.

i admit, even professor lau bun was originally learning hung ga before losing to a friendly test of skills with a friend who was learning hung sing choy lee fut under master yuen hai-direct student of jeong hung sing.

even master chan ngau sing originally learned hung ga before coming over to hung sing clf under jeong yim. but the hung sing family does not practice any hung ga sets though. even if there were some hung ga influence such as in power, having a more solid stance,etc.

as i have stated professor lau bun was learning hung ga but he had never passed on any of his hung ga to any of his students, i believe they were strictly favorable of hung sing clf. jeong hung sing was constantly being challenged, and his gung fu was proven to be effective.

hey, i am not going to complain that the chan family teaches a hung ga set in the choy lee fut system, just don't claim that its a choy lee fut set as some have already done.

fran

premier

09-24-2001, 06:32 PM

I haven't learned the form yet, but I've understood that the gung gee fuk fu form we teach in Chan family CLF isn't really a hung gar set. Yes, it's heavily influenced by hung gar, because it was originally a hung gar set, but when it was taught to the family, it was CLFized. So.. in other words, they're not teaching hung gar movements to us. It's CLF techniques with the principles and the idea same as in hung gar gung gee fuk fu form. Am I making any sense to you?

OK. So, it's propably not an "original" CLF form, but that doesn't really matter as long as it's good for us, the style evolves and stays true to the core principles. Evolution is a good thing and actually required to some extent, as long as you're not compromising the traditions.

T.Cunningham

I don't think we teach Iron wire in Chan family CLF. You're propably confusing it for the Iron arrow longfist form(Tid jin cheong). But thanks for clearing up that Luohan 18 palms thing for yik-wah-tik.

Yak-wah-tik

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> in my opinion, it is fine to include whatever you want into your direct family of martial arts, but i personally feel that if another family does not have this set in their corriculum, then the chan family should not make any comments to what another family of choy lee fut teaches. [/quote]

Still not making any comments of what your school is teaching. Still you're doing the same thing yourself.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> the true essence of choy lee fut is in the basics such as kwa,sou,chop,biu,jong,kum,na,etc. etc. it is not the set that matters. [/quote]

Exactly. So what's the problem?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> in this instance, i personally have another gripe about the chan family. very recently, a chan family sifu had the nerve to tell one of my classmates that he can correct his gung fu. this sifu will remain nameless for now, but he has to have some big ass nuts to ever think because he is a chan family member that he can correct the gung fu of hung sing choy lee fut practitioners. i mean if you do not have our sets, then how the hell can you correct someone?
[/quote]

I understand what you're saying and I agree he shouldn't have done that, if he came to your school to watch your class. But if it was an open seminar arranged by Chan Yong Fa in San Diego this year (as I suspect it was) or any open CLF seminar, it's understandable. They don't know who they're teaching, they just try to teach people some CLF. Especially if the sifu came from abroad, there's no way in hell he could have known who was who. Anyway. If the sifu wasn't ordered to teach there by the head instructor in that seminar, I admit, it was a stupid thing to do.

My reply stops here, but there's one more thing I'd like to say. You're heated.. I understand. You have every right to be angry, when people don't treat you right or belittle you or your knowledge. You always tell us how the chan family practisioners does all these things and how bad it makes you feel, but hey.. How is it supposed to make me feel as a proud representative of my branch (just like you), when my whole branch, all the practisioners and teachers are labeled as insolent and domineering megalomaniacs? It doesn't make things any better to know that we're not like that and the opinion is based on some stupid things that few hothead beginners or stupid practisioners have said.

Do you know how rasism starts? People are judged based on actions or thoughts of few individuals. The normal people would realize that it doesn't reflects the thoughts of the whole group and ignore the stupid individuals.

I really hope you understand what I'm saying here. If you don't I don't know what to do anymore. I don't feel like fighting with you for this kind of things. I'd like to learn instead.

alecM

09-24-2001, 08:44 PM

yik-wah-tik earlier on you said Chiu Chi Ling's he father taught the Gung Ji Fook Fu Sirn set to either Chan Hon Heung, Chan Kin Man's father or to Chan Kin Man. Chan Hon Hung was a Hung Gar practitioner until he became a student of Fong Yuk Shu and learned Gung Ji Fook Fu Sirn from his first teacher in his home village long before he learned Choy Lee Fut and why would Chan Kin Man want to learn the form from someone else when he had access to the from his father.

Fear not the man who has learned one thousand kicks, fear the man who has practiced one kick a thousand times.

Kung Lek

09-24-2001, 10:59 PM

Gung Gee Fook Foo belongs to the Hung Gar system having stemmed from The Tiger system of the Siu Lam Temple.

It is the original and first form of Hung Ga being that this is the set that the monk Gee Sim taught to Hung Hei Gwun at the beginning of the style.

"Taming the Tiger" as it is known in english is Shaolin at its root and Hung Gar in it's propogation and preservation.

Here is an animation I built of the set from a poster made by buck Sam Kong.

Lam Sai Wing Taming the Tiger (http://members.home.net/kunglek/pics.htm)

peace

Kung Lek

yik-wah-tik

09-24-2001, 11:38 PM

those were the exact words from sifu chiu chi ling himself. not second hand knowledge. if you have never met chan heung hong, you may not exactly know of what i am speaking. chiu chi ling's exact words were "my father taught that to chan kin man's father" but his english isn't all that good, i may have mistaken it for chan kin man himself.

chiu chi ling is a world famous hung ga master, are you going to dispute him? are you either his senior, or at his level? he has nothing to gain from this statement, but if you have any questions you should email him and get the answer yourself, instead of trying to dispute me.

and have you cleared up that website incident yet? since you have not emailed me when i asked, i will put our business on this forum.

you have accused me of giving eduann your website information, man, it is public domain. doc fai wong's students took our information on professor lau bun and word for word, font fo font stole our story except for inserting doc fai wong's name as the next successor to hung sing.....that's a load of crock! but from my mouth to your ears, i gave nothing to eduann, and originally his website stated he got his information on hung sing was from my website. so alecm, you have no right to be upset with me without ever contacting me to get the answers!

fran ;)

yik-wah-tik

09-24-2001, 11:46 PM

taking a form from another style is considered stealing!!!!!!!

i personally feel that it is not right to take another form from another style and perform it in a choy lee fut manner and call it choy lee fut.

it will always be what it was meant to be. a hung ga stylist worth his salt will notice that the choy lee fut people are doing a hung gar set but try to disguise it as their own.

remember "choy" was the choy style/ "lee" is the lee style" and fut is supposed to be a representation of shaolin roots according to the chan records. so where in choy lee fut does hung ga fall? maybe the chan family is actually choy lee ho fut hung? i am little confused.

i mean if we start including mantis, wing chun, and tae kwon do in our choy lee fut, are we still choy lee fut?

fran

MasterPhil

09-25-2001, 12:30 AM

"the gung gee fuk fu form we teach in Chan family CLF isn't really a hung gar set. Yes, it's heavily influenced by hung gar, because it was originally a hung gar set, but when it was taught to the family, it was CLFized. So.. in other words, they're not teaching hung gar movements to us. It's CLF techniques with the principles and the idea same as in hung gar gung gee fuk fu form. [...] it's propably not an "original" CLF form, but that doesn't really matter as long as it's good for us" -- I think you would have got along great with bruce lee. Your style and philosophy have many similarities with jeet kune do.

ST

Surrounded by chaos, the true taoist laughs...

MasterPhil

09-25-2001, 01:57 AM

KungLek -- Cool animation! And your stances aren't bad either ;)

YWT -- With all due respect, I agree with you but only if you add "taking a form from another style [AND CLAIMING IT AS YOUR OWN] is considered stealing!!!!!!!"

Premier -- Personally, I take it as a great compliment to hunggar that your elders were so impressed by the goun gee set that they decided to "CLFized" it and integrate it or add it into their own system. Unfortunately, their modifications show a poor understanding of the form itself as it really requires no "improvements" if well-done and understood. Only the practioner's own skill when performing the set needs to be improved. The set had already evolved for many centuries(?) by the monks before it was taught to Hung Hei Gwun. It has been perfected already and that is the reason why all hunggar lineages aim at keeping the set intact in its essence and don't try to introduce "new" or "improved" parts to it.

ST

Surrounded by chaos, the true taoist laughs...

T. Cunningham

09-25-2001, 03:22 AM

How can you possibly say that Chan Heung wasn't taught Gung Gee? I've never met you before, but I seriously doubt you were around when Chan Heung was training. I'm sure you're not that old.

I'm not questioning what you indicated Chiu Chi Ling said. Its quite possible that some of Chan Heung's people traded sets with others. So what? What does that have to do with what Chan Heung studied? Again, you're attempting to make a statement of fact without any quantifiable evidence.

If an instructor from the Family insulted one of your training brothers, have you contacted the headquarters in Australia in an attempt to resolve the issue?

There is no fued Frank. No one from the Chan Family is publicly saying anything about you, positive or negative. In order for there to be a conflict, there has to be more than one participant. As of now, its just you. Its not good to hold on to all that anger, and you obviously have a lot. It would be considerably more productive for your school to open a dialog with the Chan Family and talk about your differences instead of making negatively charged public statements and bringing people outside of the Choy Lee Fut family into the fray. Its what any reasonable person would do. If you're not going to try an open a dialog, then you should try to let it go. Anger and bitterness stagnate your chi.

This forum can serve as a powerful medium in expanding everyone's knowledge about the system and eachother. Its a shame that it is being used to instigate conflict.

T. Cunningham

iron_silk

09-25-2001, 03:27 AM

well I don't think it's fair to have a gripe against Chan family CLF just because one sifu, one peron's behaviour. (i guess it's easy to get heated with past history already in mind)

and perhaps it's less of him being a Chan family clf sifu that he thinks he can show someone more, but that he is a sifu, and experienced in a way that leads him to believe he can.

On the other hand...doesn't mean one person can't help the other if he can...it really depends.

nospam

09-25-2001, 04:26 AM

taking a form from another style is considered stealing!!!!!!! HA! That is called common practise nowadays. :)

I have said a long time ago that Tam Sam incorporated his hung family into what would become Bak Hsing..more so than Bak Sui Lum, which was more (certain) second generation anywho...

nospam.

Serpent

09-25-2001, 05:31 AM

Yik Wah Tik

You really seem to have a problem with the Chan family. What have they done to you? You're currently on some kind of one man crusade, obviously designed with the single purpose of discrediting the Chan Family and attempting to poison other people's minds against them.

Nowhere here (or anywhere else that I know of) has anyone from the Chan Family ever insulted you or your style or your teachers, yet you seem to think that they are out to get you.

You talk about a Chan family sifu offering advice to one of your students - was this at a seminar? If so, why else would you go to a seminar than to learn? If a Chan family sifu was at a seminar, teaching or helping his Master, then why is it an insult to help with what is being taught? I find it hard to believe that any sifu from any style would just wander into another person's school and start trying to teach their students.

Your posts are like the ramblings of a paranoid lunatic. Is it perhaps because Master Chan Yong Fa has been conducting some seminars in the US recently and you're scared that he's going to tread on the toes of your school? Do you think you have some sovereign claim to all Choy Lee Fut in America? If your school is good and honest, what have you got to fear?

I ask again - What's your problem?

T. Cunningham

09-25-2001, 06:22 AM

"Unfortunately, their modifications show a poor understanding of the form itself as it really requires no "improvements" if well-done and understood."

I think "improvements" is too drastic a word. Hung and Choy are two different styles with different methods of power generation and expression. When we throw a reverse punch, we tend to rotate our shoulders past "square." Pao Chui and kwa chui tend to be larger. When it was said that the set was CLFized, I believe the meaning was that the set is performed with a CLF flavor just as Doc Fai Wong's Shaolin Five Animal set is done with CLF flavor.

I've never seen the CLF Gung Gee, but I have seen the Tang Fung version. Its very impressive and very very powerful.

T. Cunningham

yik-wah-tik

09-25-2001, 08:54 PM

NOSPAM/ MR WATTUNNEE, DO YOU STILL BELIEVE LUNG TZE AND LUN CHEE ARE THE ONE AND THE SAME? HA! FOOL!

yik-wah-tik

09-25-2001, 09:06 PM

what's my problem? if you can't tell, then why should i explain?

no, the incident did not happen at a chan family seminar? we are not chan family choy lee fut, so we most likely would not attend a chan family seminar. we at my hung sing kwoon are very confident in our choy lee fut and need no other to correct us in what we do!

my complaint, is that the sifu boldly said to my classmate "would you like me to correct your choy lee fut?" who does this sifu think he is to think he can correct our choy lee fut when he is from another branch, and furthermore, he is insinuating that my sifu is inept at teaching hung sing choy lee fut! this is a chan family member. we would never attempt to correct anyone from another branch even if asked to because what you do is not what we do?

i will ask these question:

can chan yong fa correct hung sing clf's:

1) cheung kuen
2) jo yow biu ser
3) sup ji kou da
4) um ying kuen
5) lin wan kuen
6) cheh kuen

i'll stop there. but remember, these are hung sing choy lee fut sets, so can some one on this forum other that chan yong fa correct me in my choy lee fut, in regards to these forms? please let yourself be known. come visit me, and perform these sets for me, then correct me.

i really need an answer to that question.

fra

yik-wah-tik

09-25-2001, 09:11 PM

it is not common practice to steal someone else's material and add it to your own in order to enhance your style. i see taking concepts, and finding it within your own style, but never blatenly take it from another style and so called "clf-itize" it.

for the schools that do, maybe they should learn jeet kune do, but definetly not call it choy lee fut.

frank

alecM

09-25-2001, 10:35 PM

I personally don't care where or how some schools or branches of CLF came by their versions of the Gung Gee form just as I am not bothered whether any CLF schools practice and teach Ng Lun Ma, Cheung Kuen, Jo Yow Biu Ser, Lohan Sup Bat Sou, Ng Ying Kuen or Dit Jin Kuen, so long as they are teaching the correct principles and techniques.

Fear not the man who has learned one thousand kicks, fear the man who has practiced one kick a thousand times.

Fu-Pow

09-25-2001, 11:08 PM

Cool, since its okay to steal sets. I'm gonna steal a mantis set and "CLFisize" it. It's gonna have big arm movements but with mantis hands. ;)

Fu-Pow
http://www.makskungfu.com/images/Graphics/Choy%20Lay%20Fut%20red.gif

CLFNole

09-25-2001, 11:09 PM

Amen brother!

The techniques and principles are what makes CLF not just the forms. After all after you have practiced for enough time you begin to realize that all of the forms are similar (gwa, sow, chop, etc...) with each form having possibly a different purpose and sometimes a unique section or two. In the Lee Koon Hung lineage I have learned about 14 hand forms with most having all of the core CLF techniques and only a few being a bit "atypical" such as Joi Baat Sin Kuen, Fut Ga Jeurng and maybe Hok Ying Kuen.

Peace.

P.S. Don't you all think all Chan Family discussion stuff is getting a bit old. Peoples will believe what they want and will believe his or her sifu so at some time it becomes pointless and counterproductive to constantly argue amongst each other. I wish we could talk about our Hung Sing forms, weapon sets and techniques. Even though we all likely have different forms and have slightly different styles it could be productive.

Fu-Pow

09-25-2001, 11:51 PM

It is likely that those forms were "stolen." I'm 85% sure that the Drunken form is modified from another system.

BTW, CLFNole, whenever I post stuff about CLF (ie techniques, forms, etc) I get limited responses. However, when Sifu Frank comes on taliking like he just smoked some crack and did Sup Ji Kow Da 20x in a row, he gets 113 responses.

Troll posts get all the attention.......

Fu-Pow
http://www.makskungfu.com/images/Graphics/Choy%20Lay%20Fut%20red.gif

yik-wah-tik

09-26-2001, 12:36 AM

since i am new to this, i am a little confused.

i am not familiar with some of your lingo, but what do you mean by troll posts?

because to me that sounds a little disrespectful?

inform me, how am i supposed to take that?

sifu frank.............and no i don't smoke crack.
just angel dust,pcp,and crank.

sifu frank :D

nospam

09-26-2001, 01:01 AM

Yo dude, you mean he's not!? #@$!

:cool:

nospam.

yik-wah-tik

09-26-2001, 01:08 AM

no dude, i am naught smoken' crak, but maybe your mutha is, eh?

:cool: :rolleyes: :cool: :rolleyes: :cool: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :cool: :rolleyes:

"graceful staff flies above like a dragon wiggling it's tail-strong fist releases out like a tiger raising its head"

yik-wah-tik

09-26-2001, 01:10 AM

nay wattunee-nospam, whatever you call yourself,
or maybe it means you have no spam to cook?
still calling your buk sing roots, buk hsing fut kar?

frank :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

"graceful staff flies above like a dragon wiggling it's tail-strong fist releases out like a tiger raising its head"

Fu-Pow

09-26-2001, 02:11 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> i am not familiar with some of your lingo, but what do you mean by troll posts?

because to me that sounds a little disrespectful?

[/quote]

No disrespect. Just making fun of your posts when you first came on. They were full of Hell-Fire and D@mnation. You were in a sense "trolling" for some action from the Chan Family. I throw out "troll" posts occassionally, just to stir things up. Some people post only controversial posts and so are known AS "trolls."

Fu-Pow
http://www.makskungfu.com/images/Graphics/Choy%20Lay%20Fut%20red.gif

CLFNole

09-26-2001, 02:30 AM

To Fu-Pow,

Personally I believe that a good deal of CLF comes from or was adapted from Hung Gar, since most of the early CLF sifus had their beginnings in CLF. Both the double broadsword and double 3-section chain whip forms that I know are very similar to sets in Hung Gar. I know these forms were passed on to my Sifu Lee Koon Hung throught either Chau Bing or Leung Sai, maybe even So Gum Fook. Lee Koon Hung was well known for demonstrating the double broadsword form in his late teens and early 20s'.

I have seen our sword form Fu May Dan Do a/k/a Fook Fu Dan Do done by both Buk Sil Lum and Jow Gar. The form is basically the same the only difference is style and power generation.

Peace.

Fu-Pow

09-26-2001, 04:05 AM

Thanks for the insight Sihing (SiSuk?) Nole.

LKH was an martial arts genius. His CLF ( and my Sifu's )looks better than anybody that I've ever seen to date. I would have liked to meet him. He must have been a very humble yet determined man, to learn so much from so many different masters. :D

Fu-Pow
http://www.makskungfu.com/images/Graphics/Choy%20Lay%20Fut%20red.gif

premier

09-27-2001, 04:46 PM

Hmm. I might have been wrong in my previous post, when I was talking about Gung gee fuk fu kuen. I was thinking.. it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with hung ga. It could simply be a clf set with the same name as in hung gar. It could be named gung gee fuk fu (taming the tiger)because it has some very powerful clf techniques in it?

Anyway. I really don't have an idea, because I haven't been taught the form yet. I'll ask my sifus as soon as I meet them.

alecM

09-27-2001, 11:14 PM

yik-wah-tik after sitting back and thinking what you said about Chan Hon Hung and Chiu Chi Ling's father it is possible what I mean is it doesn't matter whether the form came from Chan Hon Hung's first teacher or Chiu Chi Ling's father. If the form in our lineage came from Chiu Chi Ling's Hung Gar, it doesn't cheapen the form or Chan Hon Hung in any way it is still a good form from a good teacher. As for the Web info I think I owe you an apology I should flattered more than angry just this week I have come across an other CLF site who have copied the whole history of Sifu Eduann's website.

Fear not the man who has learned one thousand kicks, fear the man who has practiced one kick a thousand times.

yik-wah-tik

09-27-2001, 11:31 PM

i understand. i never meant that chan hong hung was any less of a sifu. see, being a hung sing man i take our history very seriously. and when i meantioned that form, i only related the story in how chu chi ling's father taught it to chan hung hong, it was only to state that chan heung did not pass that set on, because i think he would have named clf with some type of hung ga connotation in it.

historically i don't agree that a different styles set should be included in another style then claim it as your own. people will see right thru.

in regards to the web thingy, no problem, i just didn't see why you got so upset. and in the future if you are upset with me, bring it to me directly first before going public because things can get out of hand.

if you have noticed i mentioned how ****ed that a chan family sifu in approached my classmate and asked if he wanted to be corrected in his clf. we are Hung Sing, not chan, so how can he correct hung sing clf if he is not a sifu of hung sing choy lee fut. but i still have not mentioned his name yet, because i will approach this sifu myself
and settle this issue.

i have no problems with you or your school. i actually hoped your sifu and students would want to know about master yuen hai's information since he is in your lineage as one of fong yuk shu's sifu's.

so no problems here.

you know how to contact me.

fran :p

"graceful staff flies above like a dragon wiggling it's tail-strong fist releases out like a tiger raising its head"

nospam

09-28-2001, 12:25 AM

yik-wah-tik,

Yes. Indeed, we call ourselves Bak Hsing Fut Gar.

I have to ask, Frank. I am assuming you're being humorous in your responses to me, although in your last several responses it seems more like you are dissing me. Curious.

nospam.

nospam

09-28-2001, 12:28 AM

Hey Fu-Pow, do you have a Yat Mun Ch'uan in your curriculum? And if so, would you mind relating a couple moves from the beginning? Feel free to do it on forum or through e-mail. Thx.

nospam.

alecM

09-28-2001, 12:37 AM

On the matter of the Chan family incident, I am neutral. However, if some one from another branch said that to me I would be more than ****ed I guarantee there would be fists a flying. Therefore, in a way I do under stand. As for the Fong Yuk Shu info from a historical point, I think I would probably find the info interesting.

Fear not the man who has learned one thousand kicks, fear the man who has practiced one kick a thousand times.

alecM

09-28-2001, 12:39 AM

nospam Yat Mun Ch'uan or Yat Mun Kuen is from my lineage

Fear not the man who has learned one thousand kicks, fear the man who has practiced one kick a thousand times.

nospam

09-28-2001, 12:41 AM

alecM..thanks. Feel free to elaborate more on the first coupla moves. Appreciated.

nospam.

alecM

09-28-2001, 12:50 AM

I'm not into translating names of forms but the a rough translation would be first gate fist. This from instead of ng lun kuen is used as our schools first form

Fear not the man who has learned one thousand kicks, fear the man who has practiced one kick a thousand times.

yik-wah-tik

09-28-2001, 12:59 AM

you attacked first.
you can't say that you didn't. i had no reason to speak to you on this forum until you joined joseph in attacking me. then you hit me with "mang" and hell i don't know what that is. to me it sounds like a diss.

but as you should know, i don't back down too often, and i don't attack unless attacked. so i'll leave it up to you to handle this however you see fit.

if you want to leave an explanation on why you post me up the way you do, i'll listen, but take a look at your previous post to me and think about it again.

frank

"graceful staff flies above like a dragon wiggling it's tail-strong fist releases out like a tiger raising its head

[This message was edited by yik-wah-tik on 09-28-01 at 04:12 PM.]

nospam

09-28-2001, 03:26 AM

Oh bouy.

Ok, thanks, man (mang= same thing). I just wanted to know.

nospam.

JAZA

09-28-2001, 04:59 AM

I have studied the kung chi fuk fu kuen in Chan's family and I have seen some videos of the hung gar same name form.
With this I could say that may be both of them had the same origin but in a broad view they are very different with some common ,obvious by the name, fu jows.

kai men

09-30-2001, 08:28 PM

Definitely it is the basic Hung Gar Form. About the 18 Lohan, that is the antique and traditional system of chi kung in Chan Family Choylifut.
That Master has been confused by the "Budha Palm" which is indeed a choy li fut form too. In my lineage it is the last form of the system (I practice Bak Siu Lam and Fatsan Hung Sing choy li fat under gm Chan Kowk Wai in Brasil)
See you
horacio di renzo

Long Live Traditional Kung Fu!!

yik-wah-tik

09-30-2001, 08:36 PM

will you and your sifu be attending the fut san hung sing kwoon celebration on october 20?

i am from the american hung sing kwoon under master dino "tien loong" salvatera.

frank :)

"graceful staff flies above like a dragon wiggling it's tail-strong fist releases out like a tiger raising its head"

yik-wah-tik

09-30-2001, 08:43 PM

the chan family seems to install many new forms regularly into their personal family lineage. i remember a few years ago that there only 148 known sets taught by the chan family of choy lee fut. they act like chan heung created all 148. including a set called fung by low-willow swaying in the wind, but according to a close friend of mine it was his grandmaster who created this set, and they are hung sing choy lee fut. what i want to know is how did the chan family have this set if another sifu invented this set.

the other thing is, if there were 148 sets 10 years ago, what happened? did chan yong fa find some long lost manuals that had 47 more sets? what will happen next year? 250 sets that are original chan family sets? let's be real.

this all goes back to when i asked if there was a problem with a sifu inventing a set. i believe the chan family creates many new sets, but there is not a problem with that. please tell me one clf man that can perform 195 sets without flaw and maste each one of those.

i thought it wasn't about how many sets you knew, but how well you knew only one?

fran :p

"graceful staff flies above like a dragon wiggling it's tail-strong fist releases out like a tiger raising its head"

JAZA

10-01-2001, 04:45 AM

Frank, you are wrong. NO one is able to learn and perform perfectly all the forms, the wide range of form is to fit the skills of different kind of people after they have learned the basics forms.
I don´t know why you always write bad comments of Chan family, I'm just a basic student and nobody in the kwoon have ever tried to sell me a statement like "we are only and pure choy lee fut" or " the only with 195 forms".
Also, I don´t believe that chan family is inventing forms every five years, there is no sense.
There are a lot of martial arts teacher selling videos of strange and lost kung fu forms and Chan family are not in this train, this affirm that they don´t have a marketing interest.
Please sorry my english and let´s be Choy Lee Fut brother, if I ever go to your city I wish to train with you or with any branch sifu of clf in the world and I wish to be accepted like a brother. Let´s finish talking bad of clf branches in this forums.