Abs...How Often?

[ewallace]

Just wondering how often everyone does ab work.

[TaoBoy]

At the end of every weights session (4 times a week).
I do 40-50 suspended leg raises and then sometimes some crunches. Often, I will do crunches in MA training too - depending on what my instructor has planned.

Yourself?

[IronFist]

I do 100 crunches every 5 minutes every day. It's the only way to get a sixpack.

brb, gotta go do 100 more crunches.

IronFist

[ewallace]

what do you do for your lower abs?

[Kumkuat]

I actually knew a chick that did (I think) 2000 crunches a day. I can't remember the exact number but it was that rediculous. I was amazed on her endurance and her way of wasting lots of time. I tried to get her away from that but most people usually think their routines are the best.

[Hau Tien]

Originally posted by Kumkuat
I actually knew a chick that did (I think) 2000 crunches a day. I can't remember the exact number but it was that rediculous. I was amazed on her endurance and her way of wasting lots of time. I tried to get her away from that but most people usually think their routines are the best.

So what would you have her do? I'm currently working on my mid-section as a project to see how far I can take it from its current sorry state. I'm forming some workouts/proper nutrition and this thread is right on that topic.

[ewallace]

I do about 30 standard crunches, 30 twisting crunches (each side), and I sometimes like to do 3 sets of ten standard crunches with a 25lb plate resting on my chest. Ever since I got back from vacation I have been slacking. I usually do abs after I lift weights as well, which was about 3 times a week.

[Kumkuat]

Of course, the only way to show a six pack is to lower bodyfat. Of course some hypertrophy in the abs might help a little. But doing couple hundered reps won't do anything. I don't train my abs much. I just do them sometimes. When I do, I do like a few sets of 5 reps with the evil wheel, leg raise pikes, saxon side bends (obliques), or weighted decline situps. I see abs as more of a muscle to strengthen so they'll support me during squats, deads, etc.,

[Hau Tien]

Originally posted by wall
NEVER DO THEM. And I have (modesty aside) the best six pack I've ever seen. See, if you want to make the abs visible (tone) then do aerobics and diet. If you want to make the abs strong, then squats, deadlifts and high kicks (yes, kicks) will work them plenty, so you don't need a specific isolation exercise.

Works for me, been doing that for 10 years, had six pack (and more importantly plenty of ab strenght) for that whole time.

Wall

My apologies... that's what I meant.

Obviously isolation exercises won't help much in "regaining" my 6-pack. Diet and cardio are the things I need to do.

That is what I was asking, though... what sort of cardio and what sort of food do you eat?

Before I put my foot in my mouth again, let me state that I do not think of the word "diet" as some wonder cure Jenny Craig type thing. I think of "diet" as the food you eat every day.

So what goes into a proper diet and cardio program designed towards losing that final bit of fat around the waist on men (and on the hips/thighs on women)?

[Kempo Guy]

I work abs 6-7 days a week by switching off Janda sit-ups, side/twisting crunches, evil wheel, and a few other exercises I've been taught.

Hau Tien,
What worked for me initially is HIIT training (high intensity interval training for cardio/fat loss) three times a week. I no longer do much running as I do a lot of Kettlebell exercises (3-5 days a week), which is great for cardio. FWIW, I lost most of my weight doing the KB workouts. I also do grappling, which is a great workout.

As for diet, well, I'm no nutritionist and there are probably many people here that are way more qualified than me. I use a modified BFL (body for life) diet, and eat five to six small meals a day, which works well for me.

Hope this helps a little.
Good luck with your training!
KG

[IronFist]

Originally posted by ewallace
what do you do for your lower abs?

Oops, I forgot to mention it. In between my sets of 100 every 5 minutes, I do sets of 20 hanging leg raises for my lower abs. So, my ab routine looks like this.

7:00.00 - Wake up
7:05.00 - 100 crunches
7:07.30 - 20 hanging leg raises
7:10.00 - 100 crunches
7:12.30 - 20 hanging leg raises
7:15.00 - 100 crunches
7:17.30 - 20 hanging leg raises
etc.

I also do this at class. I do my situps on the floor next to my desk, and I bring a portable pullup bar to do the leg raises from. A teacher tried to stop me once but I was like "dude, I'm working on my six pack" and he was like "oh, good idea I should do it too" and he starting doing crunches with me every 5 minutes. His lower abs aren't defined yet because he hasn't done enough hanging leg raises. He needs to do more reps because a lot of reps makes you toned. :rolleyes:

and so on, until this:
10:50.00 - 100 crunches
10:52.30 - 20 hanging leg raises
10:55.00 - 100 crunches
10:57.30 - 20 hanging leg raises
11:00.00 - sleep

In case you're wondering, this routine continues even while I eat, go to the bathroom, and take a shower.

IronFist

[Kempo Guy]

IF,

You should also look into subliminal tapes while you sleep, bro. Dream yourself to a better body.... :D

KG

[IronFist]

You just made me realize that I'm missing many hours of training while I sleep. No wonder my abs aren't as defined as they could be! Now what? Must I wake up every 5 minutes to continue the crunches? Maybe I'll get back to work on that machine that makes me do crunches as I sleep...

IronFist

[inic]

you guys just reminded me of the days when i used to do 500 situps and pushups everyday... the endurance did help but i know better now. i have a new ab routine which takes about 10-15 min i do every 2 days. i do throw in one endurance situp though. like 50 reps just for endurance purposes. I noticed back when i did the 500, i could take a hit in the stomach better than i can now. or maybe i'm just becoming a wuss!

[small]

I'm not a fitness expert, but I think that if you practice your chi gung (sp?) properly, this is more effective than any amount of crunches. I dont know how many crunches I can do, but once a week or so, I do 500 fast ones in one set, only my back gets tense, my stomach can keep going. I also think that if you are making your stomach very strong and ignoring your lower back, you are asking for problems.

Also, if you are doing it for cosmetic reasons, which sounds to be the case for many of you, you will find that overdeveloped abs stick out and can look like a beer belly.

Also, in actual practice your stomach works in concert with your lower back muscles.

If you are overworking your stomach, I wonder if they are too full of acids to relax. If your muscles can't relax you inhibit your speed and power.

[Aramus]

Yea, you're wasting way too much time by not training while sleeping. I keep the ab electro-stim on my stomach every day and switch that out with a machine that pushes on my stomach. This way I'm always training. Don't do that useless wake up and cruch, ...yea, use the electro stim. Then don't forget to add weights to your crunches and do tons of repetitions.:rolleyes:

[IronFist]

Originally posted by guohuen
Iron board bridge. Five + minutes. Six days a week.

The one where you lay with your head and feet on the chairs? That doesn't work the abs at all, only the lower back.

Unless you're doing it differently.

IronFist

[Lisa]

"Iron board bridge. Five + minutes. Six days a week."

Could you describe the "iron board bridge"? I've never heard of it... of course i could just know it under a different name.

Lisa

[IronFist]

small said:
I'm not a fitness expert, but I think that if you practice your chi gung (sp?) properly, this is more effective than any amount of crunches.

Hmmm. Well, I think something like standing post or whatever, while being good for you, won't help ab development. Now if you're talking hard qigong (chi gung), that involves tensing the abs and stuff, then maybe it might help.

I dont know how many crunches I can do,

There's really nothing to be gained from being able to do a ton of crunches. Think of it like this... if you're doing bench press, and you do 500 reps, what benefit are you getting? Strength? No. Mass? No. More endurance? Possibly. But still.

but once a week or so, I do 500 fast ones in one set, only my back gets tense, my stomach can keep going.

Check your form. Your back shouldn't feel anything regardless of how many you do.

I also think that if you are making your stomach very strong and ignoring your lower back, you are asking for problems.

Very true.

Also, if you are doing it for cosmetic reasons, which sounds to be the case for many of you, you will find that overdeveloped abs stick out and can look like a beer belly.

Haha, while this is potentially true, you're not going to get big abs from doing 500 situps, which is how most people train. The only way to cause hypertrophy (muscle growth) in your abs is by training them for mass, like how most people try to do bench press (increasing weight, etc.)

Also, in actual practice your stomach works in concert with your lower back muscles.

Yes, in the same way your triceps and biceps work together, or pecs and back, etc. It is foolish to develop one but not the other.

IronFist

[Kempo Guy]

Could the Chi Gung you're referring to be like the "Sanchin" type exercise???

I agree with Iron Fist in regards to ab training.
Personally I do low reps when doing Janda's and the "evil wheel" workouts. Partly because I'm unable to do them in high reps... :o
And I've been taught to keep these types of exercises down to five to ten reps per set. A set of five Janda situps are generally harder for a person to do than 30 - 50 crunches (or more). I used to be able to do a couple of hundred crunches in a row, but when I switched to Janda Situps I was unable to do more than three sets of five reps...

FWIW, I think one of the things people need to watch out for when doing crunches/situps is to keep their lower back (lumbar) flush to the ground, in order to keep the hip flexors out of the equation when performing the exercise. Otherwise, you'll end up working very little abs.

KG

[inic]

is it possible to jandas solo? i've been doing them solo, not sure if they the proper way though, but i can do a good amount, i do 2 sets of 15 real slow. but from what i'm hearing, most people cant do 5! mayb i'm doing them wrong. but i do have strong abs. back when i was in the army i got the 2nd best situp record of the entire post! did 116 situps in 2 min.... in the army, they do them full range, all the way up- all the way down. i was literally throwing myself down because its very hard to do 1/sec when they are full range situps
my pushups sucked though; did 110 in 2 min =(

[Kempo Guy]

I do a modified Janda situp 'solo'. I don't use any type of equipment (such as the pavelizer), but just make sure I keep strict form.

Things to keep in mind when doing a Janda situp.
Make sure that you keep your feet flat with a feeling of digging your heels into the ground. Keep your lower back flush on the ground as you roll up. ROLL UP, do not bend from the hip.
Your body should be in a state of contraction when going up, i.e. flex your abs, glutes (tighten the sphincter muscle as well), and also have the feeling of squeezing a ball between your knees. And finally, BREATH! Breath out while going up.
I probably forgot a few things, but these are some of the things you should be aware of when performing the Janda situp.

Hope this helps.
KG

[Nexus]

Iron Shirt Chi Kung when done properly can develop defined abs and defined muscles in the back. Typically though it tends to make the abdomen very loose and relaxed while at the same time being very powerful and better at absorbing oncoming force.

[small]

Originally posted by IronFist
Hmmm. Well, I think something like standing post or whatever, while being good for you, won't help ab development. Now if you're talking hard qigong (chi gung), that involves tensing the abs and stuff, then maybe it might help.

I'm not sure if it's the same thing, but it involves the abs for sure.

Check your form. Your back shouldn't feel anything regardless of how many you do.

I think it's something that I was born with. It's been this way since preteen.

(regarding stomach working in concert with lower back)
Yes, in the same way your triceps and biceps work together, or pecs and back, etc. It is foolish to develop one but not the other.

Sure, and I was also thinking of pivotal movements in which it feels like both might pull at the same time.

[scotty1]

What exercises benefit your lower back?

[TigerJaw]

Originally posted by scotty1
What exercises benefit your lower back?

I use back extensions, I think it's called a Roman chair, Deadlifts and rows that involve flexing your back, ie I after straightening the arms, I bend forward and the straighten up before pulling with the arms.

I could be doing it all wrong and look forward to being corrected.